The war on ISIS.

  • Thread starter mister dog
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Carlos
So as painful as it is, sit this one out till we can't?
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Painful as it is, we can't let ourselves to be led around by the nose by a few hostages. They knew what they were doing. They took the risk and they lost. They played the fool in a foreign war, but now few are are laughing.

The last time we had trouble with the Sunnis in Iraq, the answer was "the Sunni Awakening". This was core of the the so-called "surge" in Iraq where we essentially bribed (paid off) the Sunni tribes to shrug off al-qaeda in Iraq. Now, most all Sunnis in the region are "supporting" - if only tacitly - the revamped al-qaeda (ISIS).

So good old-fashioned bribery won't work anymore, as they are rich with income from across the region.

Now, the answer must be to threaten and intimidate our Sunni "friends" and "allies" in the region to cease from supporting ISIS in any fashion whatsoever. This means clamping down hard on Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and all those little statelets and emirates on the gulf. Eventually, this method will cut ISIS down to manageable size so that their natural enemies, secular Sunnis, Assad, Hezbollah, Iranians, Shiites, and Kurds can roll them up or starve them. In the meantime, look for the US to use drones, cruise missiles and conventional bombing to keep them entertained.
 
mister dog
You've got extremists in all religions trying to control the political/ cultural agenda. Please don't generalize HKS.
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I didn't see any christian extremist beheading muslims.
VolkswagenX
Yeah, we need the US to tell other countries what they need to do because that always works out so great...
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Europe and contries like Germany, Holland, Belgium can't pretend to avoid World problems forever.
Now we also have Putin destroying Ukraine. There's quite a lot going on recently.
Maybe the worst situation since Cold War.
Europe must be ready, that is my point.
Furinkazen
As in "Jihad" and "normal Muslim person".

You then manage to pluck of of nowhere:
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What if I told you some (SOME) of those "normal Muslim persons" send money they gained in Western countries to their original ****ries in some cases to support terrorist organizations like ISIS?

ISIS is crowd funded. How much money can give a "normal Muslim person" while working in Iraq?
 
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HKS racer
I didn't see any christian extremist beheading muslims.

Europe and contries like Germany, Holland, Belgium can't pretend to avoid World problems forever.
Now we also have Putin destroying Ukraine. There's quite a lot going on recently.
Maybe the worst situation since Cold War.
Europe must be ready, that is my point.

What if I told you some (SOME) of those "normal Muslim persons" send money they gained in Western countries to their original ****ries in some cases to support terrorist organizations like ISIS?

ISIS is crowd funded. How much money can give a "normal Muslim person" while working in Iraq?
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Again you show no distinction between the two, preferring to make claims inferring all muslims give money to ISIS. I have already shown evidence about ISIS and Iraq in the Islam thread.

And before you defend by saying "i'm not saying that" - now you have acknowledged "normal muslim people", you have then proceeded to lump them back in the with the ISIS Jihadists. Back to square one.
 
Furinkazen
Again you show no distinction between the two, preferring to make claims inferring all muslims give money to ISIS. I have already shown evidence about ISIS and Iraq in the Islam thread.

And before you defend by saying "i'm not saying that" - now you have acknowledged "normal muslim people", you have then proceeded to lump them back in the with the ISIS Jihadists. Back to square one.
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Your point is very weak when people like this comes up.

"The imam of San Dona di Piave prey against the Jews, expelled

The measure decided by Alfano after investigations of Digos


It cost the expulsion from the sermon last Friday Imam of San Dona di Piave, the Moroccan Al-Abd Al-Barr Rawdhi. The Interior Ministry today notified to the religious expulsion from Italy to "Severe disturbance of public order and endanger national security and religious discrimination."

The imam during the Friday sermon in Arabic said, "Oh Allah brings upon them what will make us happy. Allah, count them and kill them one by one until the last jew, do not save fluid not one. " The words were recorded by a video camera and published by MEMRI, a pro-Israeli research center based in Washington and specializes in the analysis and translation of the Islamic and Arab press. The video has been subtitled and content of the message has been confirmed by experts. Among other things, the Imam said: "You become their food poison, turns in the air they breathe fire. Keep their restless sleep and their gloomy days. Injects terror into their hearts."

The Minister Alfano said he was pleased with the decision, reached after investigations by the Digos of Venice. "It is not acceptable to the delivery of an oration clear anti-Semitic content containing explicit incitements to violence and religious hatred. My decision is worth a warning to all those who think that in Italy you can preach hate."

It is not the first time that the mosque of San Dona di Piave ends involved in the investigations. Two years ago the then imam was arrested for links with terrorists and smuggling of persons, and for this reason the Northern League came the request to close the mosque. Abd Al-Barr Al-Rawdhi came off in the past by the Muslim community in San Dona preaching in his mosque in Novate. "

https://translate.googleusercontent...spulso&usg=ALkJrhjk-XogFEMVv5RN0g1hLCFLK_HV5Q


And this.

"Bosnia, arrested the imam that justified the kidnappers of Vanessa and Greta

04/09/2014

Bilal Bosnic is in handcuffs. The imams who incited to holy war and
justified the kidnapping of Vanessa Marzullo and Greta Ramelli was arrested this morning in Bosnia.

The Islamic fundamentalist preacher was stopped by police in the Balkan country at the end of an operation conducted with the help of the commands Italian Cremona and Bergamo.Accusation is that he had sent fighters to Syria and Iraq to fight under the banner ofCaliphate. With him were arrested at least 15 other Islamists.

In recent years Bosnic had gone several times in Northern Italy - among other things, in Cremona, Bergamo and Pordenone - to preach against the West and propagandize the war against the infidels.

As part of anti-terrorism called "Damascus", the Bosnian police seized large quantities of arms in different cities of the country, probably destined for the Middle Eastern front."

https://translate.google.it/transla...ori-vanessa-e-1049095.html&edit-text=&act=url

And this.

British Muslims pray for the Executioner "Allah protect him and his family"

A British Islamic preacher who justifies the beheading of American journalist James Foley, arguing that "you reap what you sow." British jihadists unleashed on twitter cheering the Executioner who cut the head hostage invoking "Allah's protection for him and his family."

After the brutal murder of Foley British radical preacher, Anjem Choudary, has candidly explained that it is the result of the bombing, "America and its allies. You reap what you sow. The effect has a cause. " The evil master of Islam quoted by the Times of London is the leader of al-Muhajiroun, a radical network accused of collusion with terrorism. The network of Choudary would be in contact with 'Sharia 4 "in Italian, a radical organization that recruits volunteers to go and fight in Syria. One of them was Anas el-Abboubi, a young rapper of Brescia was arrested last year and later acquitted by the Court of Review. Once released he left for Syria by enlisting in the Islamic state, where he probably was killed.

In London Choudary welcomes the approximately 500 British volunteers of the Holy War who joined the Caliphate. According to him Foley was seen "as the voice of America" by his captors and "do not need" that journalists should be in Syria. The extremist preacher refused to condemn the beheading and other British jihadists have even praised the Executioner especially via twitter, as revealed by the Times. Abul Muthanna, who introduces himself as "a soldier of the Islamic State" describes the cutter heads, he also English, as a "lion". His tremendous "chirp" leaves no doubt: "You can call them horrible acts, but why call them cowards? Our men love death as you love life and will come with explosive belts. " The author would Nasser Muthana, a twenty year old from Cardiff, capital of Wales. The younger brother Aseel of 17 years and their friend, Reyaad Khan, were enrolled in the Caliphate.

Abu Aminah, under the pseudonymghazisami on Twitter wrote, referring to the Executioner, "My hopes and prayers throughout this James Foley fiasco go mujahed executioner. May Allah protect him and his family. "

Abu al-Turaab Kanadi, a volunteer of the Canadian holy war has defiantly tweeted, "It's time to play football" with the head of Foley. Other followers of the Caliph, who praise the execution of Foley, less than two weeks ago, had posted a photo on the back seat of a vehicle by writing in the caption "from the streets of London to the slopes of Jihad."

The bad teachers of radical Islam are not nested only in England. In Bosnia lives and preaches Bilal Bosnic, which has been reported several times in Italy. By itinerant imam gave sermons near Cremona, in Pordenone and is followed by other Islamic centers such as the Bosnian Bergamo according to John Giacalone, an analyst of Balkan radicalism. Ismar Mesinovic, Bosnian painter of Blyth, was fascinated by evil master and is left for Syria where he died in January.

The imam Bosnic changed yesterday the cover image of his Facebook page (1378 "I like") with the black flag of the Caliphate. Sermons do you shoot with the same banner behind and in recent days has launched an appeal via internet facing "young people and all Muslims to support the Caliph."

https://translate.google.it/transla...ori-vanessa-e-1049095.html&edit-text=&act=url
 
So IS captured some Russian jets and told Putin he's next.

This might turn into Russia and NATO against Silly IS.
 
Dennisch
So IS captured some Russian jets and told Putin he's next.

This might turn into Russia and NATO against Silly IS.
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To be honest, is more like a random guy in a 1970's captured airfield telling putting "you are next", might even be a former Chechen fighter.

Situation might escalate into the worse, after Iraq/Afghanistan NATO might be reluctant for further operations in the area, same for CIS. IS might gain more power, but it might get power down by regional states and proxy armies (like Syrian Liberation Army) if well equipped and coordinated.
 
HKS racer
I didn't see any christian extremist beheading muslims.
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Not anymore, but it's not like it didn't happen in the past for sure.
Islam is just more common in regions with less education and overall more radical attitudes, while Christianity spread in regions, which are further developed in many things. There's enough blood on the hands of all sides, so it doesn't really matter.
 
HKS racer
Now we also have Putin destroying Ukraine.
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That's what your media says.
It was not Putin who set that coup d'etat in Kiev and bombs Donetsk now. ;)
I think, Ukraine is destroying itself.

Dennisch
So IS captured some Russian jets and told Putin he's next.

This might turn into Russia and NATO against Silly IS.
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The Chechen president, Ramzan Kadyrov, has promised to eliminate any terrorists who invade Caucasus as ISIS threats to get the war into Chechnya. That's for sure - because the Chechens have another Allah today. :D
 
But how about the Chechen Islamists? Those who don't like Russia? I doubt that they now are all fun and friends with Russia.

Those who were responsible for the Moscow theatre and Bezlan school hostages, and the several bombings throughout Russia.
 
Dennisch
But how about the Chechen Islamists? Those who don't like Russia? I doubt that they now are all fun and friends with Russia.

Those who were responsible for the Moscow theatre and Bezlan school hostages, and the several bombings throughout Russia.
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Nobody asks their opinion :P How would ask them if they are hiding in forests and mountains?
There are almost none of them left in Chechnya itself (Kadyrov has pushed them out), but the Islamic insurgency is still active in the other republics of North Caucasus (Dagestan, Ingushetia, KBR, etc).

If ISIS get their pincers to Chechnya, I think Kadyrov will be able to handle it himself, with his own forces. But in the rest of Caucasus, it'll get the federal forces involved.

And one more thing: if someone in Russia (Muslim or not - whoever) says that he supports the actions of the Islamic terrorists on public, he'll be very likely to get visited by a "party van" and suspected in contacts with terrorists. Yes, we have no freedom of speech. :D
 
Carbonox
@Rage Racer, I know you like promoting Russia's strength against outside threats... but what if the threat's coming from the inside in the form of simple demographics? They suggest Russia's actually heading down the exact same path as Western Europe...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/10/23/is-russia-turning-muslim/
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Well, the percentage of Muslims in the country is pretty high, but there are some facts that aren't taken into attention:

1. Most of our Muslims are not immigrants, they are native occupants of this land, too. Moscow, however, is full of immigrants (not only Muslims - various people from all over the country and other countries of the former USSR), but Moscow was always "the city of guests" - I'm not a native Muscovite, too :sly:
So, you may witness a funny situation when a Russian guy who came from Tambov or Pskov (or elsewhere) just a year ago, tells a 30-years old Tatar man: "There are too many of you, Muslim aliens!", and the "alien" answers: "Well, actually, I live here since the day I was born, unlike you!".

2. Most Muslims in Russia are culturally assimilated. The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars, and for most Tatars, Islam is just a sort of tradition. Just like Christianity for us - a religion they don't care about too much, which doesn't affect their life seriously. Tatarstan is one of the best economically developed regions of the country, so they don't suffer any poverty.
For example, we had a party with my university friends, and there was a Tatar guy (he's from Kazan) with us. When we were drinking, he said: "Well, I'm a Muslim, so I should not boose... but **** that!" - and finished the whole vodka bottle in less than ten minutes. Really, why to refuse the pleasures of life because of religion? :D
And as I've told before, their women are not much different from ours. There are two Muslim girls in my student group, but if you saw them, you'd never assume they are Muslim (I mean "typical Muslims" you're used to think about).

3. Birth rates... Well, in Moscow, families with over four children are pretty rare (as I see), such big families may be popular in Caucasus, so that birth rate is actual for that area. People who may have so many children (over six or even ten) are usually immigrants from Central Asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, etc). But, first - those people aren't too much Islamic (I mean, radical 'Islamism' is not popular among them), second - our migration laws are getting stricter and stricter every year.

And, in general - I don't remember any area in my home city where I would be afraid to walk because I'm a Russian and I feared agressive Muslims there (like in some stories about London told here). I don't remember anyone telling me "Eh, you must obey Sharia laws, you infidel!". I am sure that none of the Muslims who may I meet (a Tajik street cleaner in my neighbourhood, or a Tatar student in my university) would support any terrorist actions of so-called Islamists.
So, even if the percentage of Muslims in our society is slightly growing up, I don't see it as a threat. In our fight with radical Islamism, our Muslims are on our side. :)
 
ISIL have reportedly released another video, this time showing the beheading of a British aid worker, with threats directed at Britain and anyone who joins the United States.
 
prisonermonkeys
ISIL have reportedly released another video, this time showing the beheading of a British aid worker, with threats directed at Britain and anyone who joins the United States.
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So realistically, will all this eventually trigger a large war, potentially a World War?
 
Another horrific murder, perpetrated by psychopathic criminals - not only denounced by the 'West', but by all decent people across the globe, regardless of religion or creed.

RIP David Haines... volunteer aid worker who tried to help ease the suffering of those in desperate need.

May his murderers get what they deserve.
 
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ISIS/ISIL is the creature of a guy named Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. If you would understand what and why ISIS is doing what it is doing, you need to understand this man, his background and his motives. From what little I have read about him, he is very pragmatic, flexible and realistic in the myriad things he has done. And not dogmatic, zealous, or overly focused on any one idea. In other words, he seems incredibly dangerous and unpredictable. Our Number One goal ought to be to decapitate the organization known as ISIS.
 
Dotini
ISIS/ISIL is the creature of a guy named Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. If you would understand what and why ISIS is doing what it is doing, you need to understand this man, his background and his motives. From what little I have read about him, he is very pragmatic, flexible and realistic in the myriad things he has done. And not dogmatic, zealous, or overly focused on any one idea. In other words, he seems incredibly dangerous and unpredictable. Our Number One goal ought to be to decapitate the organization known as ISIS.
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I think this is partially true that unlike al-qaeda you may be able to strike a massive blow to the organization by eliminating Baghdadi because he is so much more of a central leader than Bin Laden was. However, like any of these groups someone WILL take his place.
 
Our Prime Minister has said something unusually intelligent (for him) while committing to the new American-led coalition: that IS are neither Islamic nor a state, and so referring to them as such is wrong; they are instead a "death cult".
 
prisonermonkeys
Our Prime Minister has said something unusually intelligent (for him) while committing to the new American-led coalition: that IS are neither Islamic nor a state, and so referring to them as such is wrong; they are instead a "death cult".
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I beg to differ. I've never seen a group that follows the Quran as well as they do.
 
I did, and I'm a Baptist. There are passages in there that encourage spousal abuse, rape of said spouse if "she isn't giving you any", killing your relatives if they are dating non-muslims, killing your relatives if they convert from Islam (apostasy), converting infidels under the sword(first they ask you if you convert, then they put a blade to your throat and ask again, and if you don't convert then, they just kill you), polygamy, child marriages to older men, and lying to non-believers to name a few.

And before you go and tell me that all of that isn't in the Koran, you're right, half of it isn't, but you are missing half of the horrors of Islam if you just read the Koran. Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, have two holy books and commentaries direct from Muhammad, the Koran and the Sura are the holy books, and the Hadiths are the commentaries. All three function together to form Sharia Law, or Islamic law. If you read the aforementioned books together, and it is nearly impossible to find the Sura or the Hadiths in any language other than Arabic, and take time to really understand their words without outside commentary, the horrors of Islam will really jump out at you.

If you wish to have further discussions, feel free to reach me by way of PMs or the Islam thread.
 
And yet, only a minority of Muslims adhere to that radical interpretation. Most of them openly - and even publicly - reject those radical elements. Why do you think that is?
 
prisonermonkeys
And yet, only a minority of Muslims adhere to that radical interpretation. Most of them openly - and even publicly - reject those radical elements. Why do you think that is?
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Probably for the same reason most Christians don't stone their kids to death for being unruly, they aren't completely crazy.
 

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