The war on ISIS.

[mister dog]

At an emotional level I completely agree. Especially, my heart goes out to all those innocent people like the Yazidis who are reportedly buried alive by the hundreds merely for the sin of heresy. (Yazidi religion predates Islam by a thousand years or more).

On the other hand, the Kurds will need some military assistance to fend off the US heavy weapons ISIS is using to threaten Erbil, where numbers of Americans are stationed. Until Kurds get better weapons, artillery threatening Erbil must be neutralized by someone.

According to a recent article by the NY Times, Mr. Baghdadi who established and runs ISIS, surrounds himself with Ba'athists, Republican Guards and former members of Saddam Hussein's intelligence establishment. These are the former educated elite of Iraqi society, not religious nutcases, and some of them are secularists.

So it seems to me the weakest point of ISIS is its unlikely combination of religious zealots and secularists. My strategy would be to split them, cut off their money, men and weapons supply. This may be possible without too much bombing. I don't want the US getting involved in another expensive, open-ended, and ultimately unwinnable war.

Air support is a huge factor, using mostly drones to minimize risk to US personnel, they can precision strike everyone of these nutjobs if they are on the move and in a open field, this means they cannot advance anymore and will have to retreat. As long as the US keeps hitting them where possible, the Kurds and Iraqi forces will be able to recapture a lot of ground having air superiority in the pocket over these savages.

Edit: Rescue mission evacuating children and the other lucky souls that happened to be near the helicopter when it landed:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/11/world/meast/iraq-rescue-mission/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[KSaiyu]

You can thank me later, but I've cracked the conspiracy

US site: al-Baghdadi, a Mossad agent named "Elliott Shimon"

 

[Dotini]

You can thank me later, but I've cracked the conspiracy

Very funny, but the source, veteranstoday, is not mainstream and hence not acceptable.

However, there is a germ of truth in the notion of "divide and conquer", of raising yourself up by lowering all those around you.

Years ago, Seymour Hersh wrote of a neocon strategy to splinter the middle east along permanently warring sectarian lines, leaving Israel, Saudi Arabia, and of course the US and Britain, standing tall and proud on top of a stinking pile of death.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/05/the-redirection

 

[KSaiyu]

And the man behind it all?

 

[TenEightyOne]

You can thank me later, but I've cracked the conspiracy

US site: al-Baghdadi, a Mossad agent named "Elliott Shimon"

Damn that's difficult reading, full GoogleTranslate copy-paste job

Crazy stuff, and some brilliant stories linked down the sidebar

 

[KSaiyu]

Damn that's difficult reading, full GoogleTranslate copy-paste job

Crazy stuff, and some brilliant stories linked down the sidebar

I'm not sure what's worse. The story or Guardian readers up-voting "the truth".

 

[Dotini]

This map shows several points of connection of ISIS to Turkey, and also to Jordan.

 

[mister dog]

This map shows several points of connection of ISIS to Turkey, and also to Jordan.

Cancer has spread, time for some emergency surgery.
The only good thing about this is that it concentrates all the nutcases in one area, and attracts them away from the normal peace loving muslim population in countries worldwide.

It also strikes me as hypocrite that ISIS keeps on referring to the Americans and Brits as "killer of muslims", whilst they themselves have killed thousands of muslims in Syria and Iraq in the most barbaric ways because they didn't fit their views.

 

[VolkswagenX]

So this guy was kidnapped in Syria november 2012 at a time when the west was denying that there were radical elements fighting Assad? The west was supporting the FSA ( radical islamists from all over the world disguised as Syrian freedom fighters) with weapons. Turkey even opened the boarders for them and some got treatment in Israeli hospitals.

You can believe that the FSA had nothing to do with Isis or you believe there is a link. It doesn't matter. What matters is that people have warned about what is happening now and now the west is acting like this just happened out of the blue.

 

[Dotini]

Cancer has spread, time for some emergency surgery.
The only good thing about this is that it concentrates all the nutcases in one area, and attracts them away from the normal peace loving muslim population in countries worldwide.

Yes, something like 1,500 foreign legionnaires have hitched up with ISIS. There is the dreadful suspicion that some may return home (Britain, France, Germany, USA) with the training, means and intent to do harm.

If we mean to kill ISIS, I think we must seriously threaten and/or sanction Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey and Jordan in order to shut off money, men and materiel from these sources who, after all, are supposed to be our allies.

A certain amount of threatening to those leaders/governments in the US, Britain, France and Germany who allow the free movement of just about anybody across their borders might also be in order.

 

[mister dog]

Yes, something like 1,500 foreign legionnaires have hitched up with ISIS. There is the dreadful suspicion that some may return home (Britain, France, Germany, USA) with the training, means and intent to do harm.

Actually more like 20.000 foreigners in a total of 50.000. Like i said it's good they are all leaving our countries to "fight the cause" there, as they only intend to do harm sooner or later wherever they walk. And European countries are already investigating who left and scrapping them from the registers so they can't return across the borders.

If we mean to kill ISIS, I think we must seriously threaten and/or sanction Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey and Jordan in order to shut off money, men and materiel from these sources who, after all, are supposed to be our allies.

Luckily many muslim religious leaders are condemning ISIS in the mosques. I'm sure the grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia will have quite an influence on the minds of folks and i hope all others follow suit:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...r-blasts-isis-as-enemy-no1.ashx#axzz3B2RU8ouv

leaders/governments in the US, Britain, France and Germany who allow the free movement of just about anybody across their borders might also be in order.

Actually many Europeans do not support the Shengen treaty, and want to reinstall the borders and customs between our countries. I'm one of them as it might restrict free movement but at least people know what's coming into their countries or trying to flee from it. For example almost all the burglaries that are committed in Western Europe right now are from travelling gangs from Eastern Europe who just hop back and forth over the borders. Same for car theft. But due to economics it probably won't happen as that's what makes the world tick.

 

[TenEightyOne]

For example almost all the burglaries that are committed in Western Europe right now are from travelling gangs from Eastern Europe who just hop back and forth over the borders.

Seriously? Source?

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...r-blasts-isis-as-enemy-no1.ashx#axzz3B2RU8ouv

Dude, The Star is an uber-conservative almost-soft-porn tabloid, be very careful linking them or quoting them

But now I have "ooh ahh Daily Star...say ooh ahh Daily Star" stuck in my head in that thuggish accent from the advert :\

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Wow, the US should just give the Kurds weapons. They are doing a lot better than the Iraqi Army, and US airstrikes are a great deal of help, too. The US gives Iraq weapons and other equipment, but they need to actually train them. Without training, how could they use the weapons?

 

[mister dog]

Seriously? Source?

Experience and many news articles, here's one about Belgium for example:
http://www.xpats.com/belgium-has-660-burglar-gangs

Dude, The Star is an uber-conservative almost-soft-porn tabloid, be very careful linking them or quoting them

But now I have "ooh ahh Daily Star...say ooh ahh Daily Star" stuck in my head in that thuggish accent from the advert :\

You want to go out and buy a copy now don't ya?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Experience and many news articles, here's one about Belgium for example:
http://www.xpats.com/belgium-has-660-burglar-gangs

That says that Belgium has 660 burglar gangs. It doesn't say that almost all the burglaries committed in Western Europe are committed by gangs-in-transit from the East, which still remains (to my mind) an utterly ludicrous claim that you haven't backed up.

You want to go out and buy a copy now don't ya?

No, because I can use the internet which is mostly-the-same-but-bigger

 

[Omnis]

Wow, the US should just give the Kurds weapons. They are doing a lot better than the Iraqi Army, and US airstrikes are a great deal of help, too. The US gives Iraq weapons and other equipment, but they need to actually train them. Without training, how could they use the weapons?

Can't use a gun while you're stripping off your uniform and running for the gulf.

The Kurds have nowhere to go, and they've been dealing with aggression from everyone for a long time now.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Can't use a gun while you're stripping off your uniform and running for the gulf.

The Kurds have nowhere to go, and they've been dealing with aggression from everyone for a long time now.

They seem to be doing OK taking back the Mosul Dam.

 

[Omnis]

The Kurds have, yes. Meanwhile the Iraqi Army is swimming to Kuwait since Baghdad is still surrounded.

 

[mister dog]

That says that Belgium has 660 burglar gangs. It doesn't say that almost all the burglaries committed in Western Europe are committed by gangs-in-transit from the East, which still remains (to my mind) an utterly ludicrous claim that you haven't backed up.

Well i'm Belgian and my father was a cop until a couple of years ago (pensioner now), so i guess i have a better view on the burglary plague in my home country than your average GTP'er.

Claim is not ridiculous at all, no time to look for an appropriate article now but i'd bet money that 60-70% of burglaries in western European countries are committed by eastern European gangs.

Anyway we're way off topic here

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well i'm Belgian and my father was a cop until a couple of years ago (pensioner now), so i guess i have a better view on the burglary plague in my home country than your average GTP'er.

Sorry dude, this is going to be hard for you to take, I can tell... Belgium is only small part of Western Europe.

Don't worry about the Belgian figures, I'd love to see that "almost all the burglaries that are committed in Western Europe right now are from travelling gangs from Eastern Europe who just hop back and forth over the borders.". I'm not convinced you can back that up, dude

Found this article in the Gronad, interesting stat on residential immigration, admittedly it refers to settled populations but thought-provoking nonetheless.

 

[mister dog]

Sorry dude, this is going to be hard for you to take, I can tell... Belgium is only small part of Western Europe.

Don't worry about the Belgian figures, I'd love to see that "almost all the burglaries that are committed in Western Europe right now are from travelling gangs from Eastern Europe who just hop back and forth over the borders.". I'm not convinced you can back that up, dude

Found this article in the Gronad, interesting stat on residential immigration, admittedly it refers to settled populations but thought-provoking nonetheless.

You should put "citation required" in your sig haha

 

[TenEightyOne]

You should put "citation required" in your sig haha

Prove it

 

[VolkswagenX]

http://news.antiwar.com/2014/08/22/us-preparing-to-expand-iraq-war-into-syria/

 

[Carlos]

Luckily many muslim religious leaders are condemning ISIS in the mosques. I'm sure the grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia will have quite an influence on the minds of folks and i hope all others follow suit:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...r-blasts-isis-as-enemy-no1.ashx#axzz3B2RU8ouv

Actually many Europeans do not support the Shengen treaty, and want to reinstall the borders and customs between our countries. I'm one of them as it might restrict free movement but at least people know what's coming into their countries or trying to flee from it. For example almost all the burglaries that are committed in Western Europe right now are from travelling gangs from Eastern Europe who just hop back and forth over the borders. Same for car theft. But due to economics it probably won't happen as that's what makes the world tick.

When I was watching the news yesterday they had an article on IS. They went to a Mosque in Rotterdam, to show they are not supporting IS. Only when they started interviewing the youth, one big disappointment. All the kid had to say was: It's Americas fault, IS just wants to be on its own. They beheaded the American to show America has to piss off, IS has power and let IS be IS.

I almost fell of the couch.

 

[mister dog]

When I was watching the news yesterday they had an article on IS. They went to a Mosque in Rotterdam, to show they are not supporting IS. Only when they started interviewing the youth, one big disappointment. All the kid had to say was: It's Americas fault, IS just wants to be on its own. They beheaded the American to show America has to piss off, IS has power and let IS be IS.

I almost fell of the couch.

Yes all they want is to crucify, execute and behead people in peace but NOOOO the Americans have to interfere again. Evil Americans want to kill Muslims!!

 

[Dotini]

When I was watching the news yesterday they had an article on IS. They went to a Mosque in Rotterdam, to show they are not supporting IS. Only when they started interviewing the youth, one big disappointment. All the kid had to say was: It's Americas fault, IS just wants to be on its own. They beheaded the American to show America has to piss off, IS has power and let IS be IS.

I almost fell of the couch.

In Britain, too, there seems to be widespread sympathy for jihadis and terrorists. It's called "jihadi cool", I believe.

 

[TenEightyOne]

In Britain, too, there seems to be widespread sympathy for jihadis and terrorists. It's called "jihadi cool", I believe.

Rubbish, @Dotini, "widespread", really?

"Some" would be accurate I'm sure.

 

[Dotini]

Rubbish, @Dotini, "widespread", really?

"Some" would be accurate I'm sure.

Howzabout we compromise and say "too much"? Even better, see below for a recent quantification.

http://www.newsweek.com/twice-many-british-muslims-fighting-isis-armed-forces-265865
There are now more than twice as many British Muslims fighting for Islamic State than there are serving in the British armed forces, according to a British Member of Parliament (MP).

Khalid Mahmood, the MP for Perry Barr in Birmingham, estimates that at least 1,500 young British Muslims have been recruited by extremists fighting in Iraq and Syria in the last three years.

Mahmood told Newsweek that this figure had been building since the start of the Syrian conflict: "If you look across the whole of the country, and the various communities involved, 500 going over each year would be a conservative estimate.”


In 2010 it was reported the UK had 2,869,000 Muslims, or 4.6%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country\


Even more to the point, the enthusiastic support of your government and its mouthpiece, the BBC, for nation-destroying actions in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, etc, is nothing short of obvious, stupid, self-destructive and shameful, IMO.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I find it amazing how my country is considering to allow extremists to decide to go kill some people in Syria, come back, re-settle and live off a loan set up by taxpayers. So I am giving people money to stay here and live a comfortable life after having killed people.

 

[Carlos]

I find it amazing how my country is considering to allow extremists to decide to go kill some people in Syria, come back, re-settle and live off a loan set up by taxpayers. So I am giving people money to stay here and live a comfortable life after having killed people.

So if we went after them, making sure they can't come back, would it still be legal?