Huh? You asked:
The claim you made was that they are treated better in law, a claim that you have not been able to support
The 'protection' they were given was not legal (hence the reason why charged are being brought against many involved and inquires started), as such they were not treated better in law at all.
For that to be the case a law would have to exists that affords protection from criminal prosecution based on one's religion being Muslim. Such a law doesn't exist.
Lost me again. You asked for proof to back up my point, I provided and you ask why this is significant? Let's trace this back to my original statement:
Benefits are given with no expectation of a payback to society at large (think the Somali population in my area) and they are free to have as many children as they like (which is considerable in comparison to the indigenous population).
If I recall this was part of your claim that they are treated better in law again, as UK/EU citizens are also provided benefits with no expectation of a payback and can have as many kids as they like, and that sources have been provided to show that the groups you have mentioned are given (in law) less assistance than UK/EU citizens you haven't supported the claims you made.
Quote me as saying it is not as bad as Pakistani and Bangladeshi attitudes. I've dealt with both, inside and outside my family and I can categorically say it is worse. Again I ask: WHERE are the sex gangs of other Asian descent?
Frankly I find your approach archaic and offensive. I go next week to a meeting exploring Bangladeshi integration and muslim culture in East London hosted by Bangladeshis and one of the topics talked about will be dealing with
"overly friendly cousins".
They can admit they have a problem, Pakistanis can admit they have a problem yet you seem hell bent on denying this is the case and falsely equating the terrible rights of women in Asian communities with the much worse treatment of a wider population of girls in Pakistani/Bangladeshi areas of influence.
Sex gangs have been found to exist in the White community, in the black community, in the Muslim community, in the Catholic community, in the rich and privileged community, in the '70's radio celeb community.
Are you honestly saying (given the supporting evidence of the treatment of women in India and the attacks and deaths that have occurred) that it is impossible for it to happen or be happening within the Indian/Asian community?
Quite frankly you can find that as offensive as you like, if you truly believe the Indian/Asian community to be immune to this issue then I think your being naive on a colossal scale.
No I want to see the offenders who aren't from these communities please before you say this affects all groups equally.
Really.
Lets start with the fact that those who actually investigate and prosecute the cases say its not as simple as you are making out.....
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/14/child-grooming-sexual-abuse-race
....and then I will simply leave my jaw on the floor if you are unaware of the issue with the rape and murder of women in India across all religions.
Good luck saying such words in the UKIP/far right strongholds of Bradford or any other areas these victims are. Just a friendly warning is all.
And you know that I haven't challenged members of these groups how?
For the record I've been a member and active participant in a number of anti-fascist and anti-far right groups since I was in sixth form college, I've been quite happy to challenge the views of the likes of UKIP and far worse for a good 25 years (and face to face). Given that my children and wife are of mixed race its also a situation I have had to deal with and address in schools and public for near twenty years.
I don't need or want your friendly warnings and I would ask that you stop making assumptions about what I do and don't need warning about, as so far your track record is rather poor.
Wait, what? You are really comparing Islam with the faith that was behind key members of the abolitionist movement? Really? When did Saudi Arabia ban slavery?
I'm sorry, are we forgetting the quasi slavery in effect in several mid-east countries (think the uproar about Qatar's migrants)?
Slavery is still an issue, but saying the "biggest contemporary issues" are from Christian countries is a little odd.
Saudi, that would be 1962. Now if you want to play cherry-pick an example and use it to try and prove a point, that would be over 30 years
before the Catholic church closed it last Magdalene Laundry (indentured servitude posing as an asylum).
Now I would agree that a good number of Christians were central figures in the abolitionist movement, just as a good number of Christians were central figures in the pro-slavery movement. Funnily enough the exact same is true of Islam.
Both faiths have pro and anti leaders in the slavery (which is why I have an equal issue with faiths of all flavours), yet you see one as anti-slavery and one as pro-slavery. Odd that?
Oh and for the record I have rather major issues with Saudi and the way its governed (and I base that in part in having been to the country), but given that its run by a sect of Islam that is a small minority (even in Saudi) its hardly representative of the entire religion.
From the second of your links:
Whether the percentage of Catholic priests who abuse children and youths is much greater than for other Christian and non-Christian religious leaders (such as gurus, imams, ministers, pastors or rabbis) is unclear, as no reliable data exists about these groups. It’s also difficult to find consistent reliable statistics as to what percentage of adult males in the general population sexually abuse children.
So what I'm getting is the Catholics are, starting with their CEO the Pope acknowledging there is a problem and working (not fast enough we both agree) to minimise it? Could this be a symptom of transparency since there is a greater awareness of Catholic abuse (as your source points out, we have no idea if gurus are just as paedophillic as priests).
Did you bother to read any of the UN reports on this matter?
The Catholic church is not working to minimize this at all! Its dragging its heels, blocking investigations, using legal blocks as often as it can and pretty much refusing to work with UN investigation teams. That's in part why we still have no idea of the true scale involved and those working on it believe we have only started to scratch the surface.
I'm quite sure its just a coincidence that the same blocking actions and lack of cooperation is happening with regard to the Magdalene laundries and the UN investigations into slavery and torture in regard to them.
I'm saying it's the cultural norm for them to treat women worse, sexually than any of the other Asian immigrants to the UK. It seemed you were insinuating that I therefore believed all Pakistani men treated women in such a way, but if I misread that then I apologise.
That's exactly how you posts have come across, you have effectively described it as a cultural norm for Pakistani/Muslim men.
I counter that with the argument that its far more complex than that and many other factors also come into play in regard to this, including (but not limited to) socio-economics and the ability to be 'protected' from potential punishment from the crime.
Is there some OED definition I have to quote?
No its a logical definition of multicultural. Everyone being allowed to openly practice their culture as long as it doesn't impact on the rights of any other individual.
Given that anytime it does impact on the rights of an other individual, if it were permitted or protected that would favour that culture over others and be mono-cultural not multi-cultural.
I can't really help since the link appears to be on a timer before it becomes inactive. All I can suggest is googling The Economist article. The opening lines are:
I've been at the hospital with my mother-in-law all day so I will have to read that later and get back to you with my thoughts on it.
