The war on ISIS.

  • Thread starter mister dog
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Blitz24
The Arab Spring has been an utter disaster. Sure there are ruthless dictators in charge of those countries, but ironically they knew how to keep their people under control better than any special peacekeeping group of soldiers ever could.
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And yet some people think a dictatorship was for the best.
Emiliano Zapata
I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.
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Blitz24
The Arab Spring has been an utter disaster. Sure there are ruthless dictators in charge of those countries, but ironically they knew how to keep their people under control better than any special peacekeeping group of soldiers ever could.
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Obama and his people involved with foreign relations might be learning this(unless there have been some mysterious goals achieved in the messes made, but usually the simplest observation is the correct one), lets see how we continue on with Syria and Assad as this will tell where further policies go.

I'm not sure how long Assad can last but it's clear the U.S. stopped trying to get him out quite some time ago, it would not surprise me if we are aiding him at this point either. ISIS is everyone's enemy and the flavor of the month is a secular one.
 
Syria is by far the most complicated case in a long time. There are too many parties fighting each other for the rest of the World to get completely involved.

I would not be surprised if the Kurds will start an uprising of their own after this conflict dies off.
 
Blitz24
Once again, stop turning the conversation to about ISRAEL. We know you hate Israel, we know you want Israel to cease to exist.
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Off - topic - I think you were tired when you wrote that... My jewish friends are fun, smart and knowledgeable. The women are beautiful and hard working. The unique jewish culture worth learning about. Great food and great people to hang out with. The problem is with Israel's leaders, a minority of unreasonable, sometimes delusional politicians. If you have jewish friends, ask them what they think about Netanyahu.

@Scaff - "http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

Not a good source at all."

How many news agency are going to figure what was Edward Snowden saying?
http://moroccantimes.com/2014/07/ns...rabu-bakr-al-baghdadi-trained-israeli-mossad/

Even Fox News (propaganda machine) has legit worth paying attention to stories sometimes. It is hard to find them. You only need to pay attention to what is being reported. Some of the commentators around, have a tendency to loose their logic in the process of researching. Some of them don't even know how to read the news.
Question is... Was Edward Snowden (the source) lying?
 
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F1jocker12
@Scaff - "http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

Not a good source at all."

How many news agency are going to figure what was Edward Snowden saying?
http://moroccantimes.com/2014/07/ns...rabu-bakr-al-baghdadi-trained-israeli-mossad/
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Did you actually read that piece all the way through?

I only ask because at the end they effectively say that they know its made up but given that Snowden hasn't officially gone or record to deny it they are running it anyway!

"EDITOR’S NOTE: Time Magazine has released on July 19, 2014 an article arguing that this story, which was reported by many Iranian sources including Iran News Agency, is a conspiracy theory from Iran and that it is not true. Nevertheless, it is worth pointing out that though the piece of news went viral on the net, Snowden did not refute the claims of the Iranian News Agency. "

The Time magazine article by the way is here:
http://time.com/2992269/isis-is-an-american-plot-says-iran/

That's akin to me claiming that Snowden has spoken about NSA files that prove that the Queen and Obama are the same person and both are actually ex-KGB assets; now it must be true because he hasn't denied it.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof (well actually any proof would be a start in this case), so far you have not managed that and nor have your sources (one of which is well known for made up nonsense).




F1jocker12
Even Fox News (propaganda machine) has legit worth paying attention to stories sometimes. It is hard to find them. You only need to pay attention to what is being reported. Some of the commentators around, have a tendency to loose their logic in the process of researching. Some of them don't even know how to read the news.
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The simple difference is that the true ones have evidence that can be corroborated, this doesn't


F1jocker12
Question is... Was Edward Snowden (the source) lying?
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You're yet to prove he even said it in the first place; manage that and then the question becomes valid.

Its rather ironic that you chide others for "a tendency to loose their logic in the process of researching" when you're citing unproven sources as if they were fact.


ClydeYellow
Well, rationalwiki itself - not unlike all other crowd-edited wikis - isn't completely reliable either (although in the case of Globalresearch.ca, they're bang on the money).
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Indeed true, but they are certainly more reliable that globalresearch.ca in that regard.
 
Scaff
Did you actually read that piece all the way through?
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Of course. That was one of the reasons I posted a second link to the basically the same story. From the journalistic point of view, it's more balanced. Snowden worked for and had access to NSA documents. Only the fact that he is "wanted" for leaking classified information gives him a different status. Nobody tried to make him look like a lunatic, because in the intelligence world, his statements are highly valued and to make him look like a fool will be pointless. So .... when a former NSA infrastructure analyst comes out saying something, knowing how NSA is not a bunch of crazy ones running around pretending the Queen and Obama are the same person, I think is better to just listen and try to comprehend the puzzle. You are asking to corroborate info when referring to NSA?

We need to be thankful he said something that got picked by some media to start with. Any government that will have such an individual as a refugee, will isolate him for obvious reasons.

Scaff
You're yet to prove he even said it in the first place; manage that and then the question becomes valid.
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I am amazed you are not simply asking if the guy exists (because is not real proof for that either), speculating how the person from the pictures and the videos could be Jesus or Santa Claus.
 
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F1jocker12
Of course. That was one of the reasons I posted a second link to the basically the same story. From the journalistic point of view, it's more balanced. Snowden worked for and had access to NSA documents. Only the fact that he is "wanted" for leaking classified information gives him a different status. Nobody tried to make him look like a lunatic, because in the intelligence world, his statements are highly valued and to make him look like a fool will be pointless. So .... when a former NSA infrastructure analyst comes out saying something, knowing how NSA is not a bunch of crazy ones running around pretending the Queen and Obama are the same person, I think is better to just listen and try to comprehend the puzzle. You are asking to corroborate info when referring to NSA?

We need to be thankful he said something that got picked by some media to start with. Any government that will have such an individual as a refugee, will isolate him for obvious reasons.
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Not a single one of the documents that have been released by him contain a single mention of this, no proof that he even spoke about this exists.

You are working on the assumption that its a verifiable fact that he even said this, yet you and your sources are totally unable to demonstrate that. Given that everything he has publicly said has been backed up by NSA documentation I find the lack of evidence and supporting material to be very, very suspicious.

Oh and given that the second article basically acknowledges that its made up but still prints it as if it were fact doesn't make it more balanced, hell it doesn't even cover the lack of supporting evidence or the issues with the claims that its making (much I must say like you).

Not to mention that Snowden's main press contact (Glenn Greenwalt - the first man Snowden contacted about the NSA documents and the man he entrusted the NSA documentation to) says he's never heard Snowden discuss it or seen a single piece of evidence to support it or that his lawyer (you know, the man Snowden pays to speak and act on his behalf) states its a hoax.

Now they are valid sources of commentary on this and the sources I've linked to show first hand statements by both of them, yours are simply not.

F1jocker12
I am amazed you are not simply asking if the guy exists (because is not real proof for that either), speculating how the person from the pictures and the videos could be Jesus or Santa Claus.
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Don't engage in strawman claims, they don't help your already massive lack of credibility and you will find that I don't play well when other try and claim I'm saying things I'm not.

AUP
You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.
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Tikrit is about to be taken over by the Iraqi Army, it's a matter of hours according to a couple of high profile Iraqis.

And some other good news, the Iraqi Army are reportedly being supported by different tribes, Sunni and Shiite. Both being sick and tired of the wannabe Muslim warriors IS.
 
Dennisch
Tikrit is about to be taken over by the Iraqi Army, it's a matter of hours according to a couple of high profile Iraqis.

And some other good news, the Iraqi Army are reportedly being supported by different tribes, Sunni and Shiite. Both being sick and tired of the wannabe Muslim warriors IS.
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On to Mosul and Raqqa!
 
That doesn't look very good, 150,000 refugees with nowhere to go yet again. With the proximity to the capital I wonder if we're going to see some stronger alliances formed. It's putting the Palestinians in precarious position obviously but where are the Assad forces?

Government helicopters are reported to have been dropping barrel bombs on Yarmouk, although rebel groups accuse the regime of encouraging the spread of Islamic State so it can dismiss the entire rebel movement as a bunch of terrorists.
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Someone's going to have to set their differences aside, not just between those on the ground atm either.

saudis.jpg
 
The American people, who still want to stop Al-Qaeda and the Islamic State, are only dimly aware that longtime U.S. “allies” – Israel and Saudi Arabia – have shifted into an effective alliance with those Sunni jihadists as part of their regional war against Iran and Shiite Islam, as Lawrence Davidson explains.
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Israel’s Unsavory New ‘Allies’
 
F1jocker12
Israel’s Unsavory New ‘Allies’
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First of all, that is very misleading as Israel isn't even involved in the fight against ISIS. All of their build up has been along the Golan Heights to protect Israeli land from the infighting in Syria from spilling over into Israel. That is strike one.

Strike two is that it was Jordan that pushed the Saudi king into activating the Muslim Military Alliance, something that was established in the 50's to fight Israel mind you, to bring the fight to ISIS.
 
mister dog
One for the terrorist blooper section; ISIS car bomber hits ISIS roadside bomb, flies 10 meters in the air before car explodes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onds-driver-s-IEDs-detonate.html?ito=embedded

Looks like the 4th of July! :lol:
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The footage is the latest in a string of videos released by Kurdish forces which show ISIS launching bungled attacks in Iraq.
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So the attacked are randomly pointing cameras at the road (they do not know if,when or where they are being attacked) and get a perfectly framed explosion of an ISIS suicide bomber? So Kurdish forces are just filming the cars on the roads? How many cameras do they have available? How many cameramen do they have?

Only by saying these images are coming from Kurdish forces is fishy to me... If they will be coming from ISIS (willing to make a point for effectively destroying enemy targets with suicide bombers) I'll say OK... But the "target" filming something that is designed to take the target by surprise.... I don't know about it.
 
mister dog
One for the terrorist blooper section; ISIS car bomber hits ISIS roadside bomb, flies 10 meters in the air before car explodes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onds-driver-s-IEDs-detonate.html?ito=embedded

Looks like the 4th of July! :lol:
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On liveleak it was posted as a suicide bomber who was blown up because of Kurdish fighters shooting the truck to hell.

F1jocker12
So the attacked are randomly pointing cameras at the road (they do not know if,when or where they are being attacked) and get a perfectly framed explosion of an ISIS suicide bomber? So Kurdish forces are just filming the cars on the roads? How many cameras do they have available? How many cameramen do they have?

Only by saying these images are coming from Kurdish forces is fishy to me... If they will be coming from ISIS (willing to make a point for effectively destroying enemy targets with suicide bombers) I'll say OK... But the "target" filming something that is designed to take the target by surprise.... I don't know about it.
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That's the benefit of having cameras everywhere nowadays. And by communicating with each other they know when and where to point the camera.

And there are plenty of videos being uploaded by both sides.
Stop being mister conspiracy everywhere. It's annoying.
 
Dennisch
That's the benefit of having cameras everywhere nowadays. And by communicating with each other they know when and where to point the camera.

And there are plenty of videos being uploaded by both sides.
Stop being mister conspiracy everywhere. It's annoying
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I know sometimes is shocking to learn how somebody is using logic.
Do you know how instant an explosion is?

Do you know how many seconds it takes to put a running camera on shot and frame it properly?

Do you know how long it takes to start a camera?

Do you know how long it takes to find a camera if you are not ready?

Do you know how long it takes for a proper framed image to get on focus in the auto function?

Do you know how long it takes for a proper framed image to get on focus in manual function?

Do you know how, in order to catch the end of an explosion on camera (think of the first plane on the first WTC tower on 9/11) you need to have a reason to have a running camera in the vicinity of that particular location?

Do you know how, in order to catch an explosion on camera (think of the second plane on the WTC second tower on 9/11) you need to have a rolling camera aiming towards that location for a different reason, and get lucky to film the entire explosion from the beggining to the end?

How do you know the truck in the video was an ISIS suicide bomber truck?

I'll give one single possible scenario... How about the Kurdish fighters were waiting with a camera aiming at that road knowing about the IED in the dust? How about they've seen that random truck approaching, started the recording, IED goes off, spectacular thing happens, car is flying thru the air and explodes again.

Then say the truck was a suicide bomber annihilated by the skilled and couragous Kurdish fighters. Really? Communicating with each other about what? Maybe about a car approaching, because is no way in the world they knew that was a suicide bomber and they've guessed drivers intentions. After the explosion you can say anything... I can say it was Bad Santa...

Hat off for those militants fighting against ISIS, but this explosion on camera can be anything but a suicide bomber... If it's a suicide bomber, than is hit on target, and we are not told about the target.

Again.... Use your logic! I know it kinda kills the hype.... but don't fool yourself.
 
F1jocker12
I know sometimes is shocking to learn how somebody is using logic.
Do you know how instant an explosion is?

Do you know how many seconds it takes to put a running camera on shot and frame it properly?

Do you know how long it takes to start a camera?

Do you know how long it takes to find a camera if you are not ready?

Do you know how long it takes for a proper framed image to get on focus in the auto function?

Do you know how long it takes for a proper framed image to get on focus in manual function?

Do you know how, in order to catch the end of an explosion on camera (think of the first plane on the first WTC tower on 9/11) you need to have a reason to have a running camera in the vicinity of that particular location?

Do you know how, in order to catch an explosion on camera (think of the second plane on the WTC second tower on 9/11) you need to have a rolling camera aiming towards that location for a different reason, and get lucky to film the entire explosion from the beggining to the end?

How do you know the truck in the video was an ISIS suicide bomber truck?

I'll give one single possible scenario... How about the Kurdish fighters were waiting with a camera aiming at that road knowing about the IED in the dust? How about they've seen that random truck approaching, started the recording, IED goes off, spectacular thing happens, car is flying thru the air and explodes again.

Then say the truck was a suicide bomber annihilated by the skilled and couragous Kurdish fighters. Really? Communicating with each other about what? Maybe about a car approaching, because is no way in the world they knew that was a suicide bomber and they've guessed drivers intentions. After the explosion you can say anything... I can say it was Bad Santa...

Hat off for those militants fighting against ISIS, but this explosion on camera can be anything but a suicide bomber... If it's a suicide bomber, than is hit on target, and we are not told about the target.

Again.... Use your logic! I know it kinda kills the hype.... but don't fool yourself.
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47ae83ade0987cacdb15619964aa122c622dd7c0234241c2218b40aeb653c54f.jpg
 
F1jocker12
You are awesome!... I've already mentioned this here... I am not the type though.... If you like purple... have fun with purple....
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You are bound to back this up with evidence sooner rather than later. It is not up to us, the rest of GTP, to do your own homework everytime you want to throw countries, mainly Israel, under the bus at your leisure.

At this point in the game, and I don't really care if I pick up a warning at this point in the game, all you are doing is throwing wild accusations at Israel and trying to see what sticks. It won't work.
 

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