The war on ISIS.

[Dennisch]

And we all know what happens with the massively armed rebels after this squabble is done.

Thanks for the weapons, NATO, now watch how we use them against you!

 

[Swagger897]

Goes three pages back when we were all dreaming, but I think it'd be the coolest thing ever to see Russian and American troops walk in on different fronts and sweep to the capitol.

'Course, it'll never happen, but that's just me dreaming.

 

[Dennisch]

We'll have to face that Syria will become another failed attempt of forcing democracy to a nation that isn't ready for such changes.

Or this turns into a new Korean or Vietnam war.

 

[Sanji Himura]

12 Christians were slaughtered by ISIS hands, 2 of them women, for not renouncing Christ. The women, aged 29 and 33 were raped first before getting their heads cut off:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/10/i...12-christians-for-refusing-to-renounce-christ

Also, a Congressional study has been released, citing that 250 muslims from the US alone had left to join ISIS. The study goes on to say that of the 25,000 foreigners to have joined ISIS (US Estimates) since 2011, 1000 have joined by way of the UK.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/10/c...muslims-from-us-have-joined-the-islamic-state

 

[Dennisch]

Also, a Congressional study has been released, citing that 250 muslims from the US alone had left to join ISIS. The study goes on to say that of the 25,000 foreigners to have joined ISIS (US Estimates) since 2011, 1000 have joined by way of the UK

And then we have those who return to their nations, in Europe alone at least 800 have returned, and instead of locking them up and throwing away the key, there are people who think that they aren't a threat and just need lots of hugs, kisses and tea.

 

[Swagger897]

We'll have to face that Syria will become another failed attempt of forcing democracy to a nation that isn't ready for such changes.

Or this turns into a new Korean or Vietnam war.

Well any attempt other than those of say, Israel, Egypt, or the UAE who already advanced with the rest of the West and modernized world (well... maybe Egypt didn't have a choice 80 years ago) won't be until they do it themselves. I don't foresee any middle east country being able to cope with such a change by implementing those who are apposed to it in the first place, or don't really give 2 cents for it.

What does need done is to stop the senseless killings based on un-founded principles, whether you think it is or not.

 

[Touring Mars]

Can't believe the US and Europe are acting like the queen of the prom here, and the media tries to portray the Russians as strictly bombing the free syrian rebels or what not. We should be grateful for the extra fire power.

We can resolve the Assad situation afterwards, let the Russians play around and have the internal conflict put on hold. Then after ISIS is wiped out the discussion can start on how to replace Assad.

Nr. 1 priority here people, i'm sure we'd all prefer ISIS and Al Qaeda been taken care off first, than to worry about Assad staying in power for now and all the political complications. He's gonna have to go anyway, i'm sure the Russians will agree on that and give him exile or something.

I agree, but with a massive dose of skepticism thrown in.

The Assad regime is about as bad as it gets as far as tyrannical, murderous regimes go. You're right - Assad must go in the final analysis, but maybe that is not what the Russians have in mind. It is not even clear that their true motives are what their supporters believe they are - Russia is not getting involved in Syria just because ISIS are bad men.

Putin says that the fate of the Assad regime should be decided by the Syrian people. That, presumably, includes those same Syrian people that protested against Assad, and whose families have been bombed, gassed or butchered by his forces, or who have been forced out of their homes. Also, it is more than a tad dubious to be taking lessons on the importance of democratic principles from Vladimir Putin. That said, I don't doubt that Russia has the greatest influence in this scenario and that what Putin says will go - and if that includes getting rid of Assad after ISIS and the extremist insurgency is crushed, then that's what will happen.

 

[Dennisch]

What does need done is to stop the senseless killings based on un-founded principles, whether you think it is or not.

What needs to be done is educate them that they're reading the same fairy tale, and that radicalisation doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[Swagger897]

What needs to be done is educate them that they're reading the same fairy tale, and that radicalisation doesn't get you anywhere.

no harm meant

 

[Touring Mars]

What needs to be done is educate them that they're reading the same fairy tale, and that radicalisation doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[Swagger897]

So that is why the UN should commence work on a time machine and kill Gutenberg.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I agree, but with a massive dose of skepticism thrown in.

The Assad regime is about as bad as it gets as far as tyrannical, murderous regimes go. You're right - Assad must go in the final analysis, but maybe that is not what the Russians have in mind. It is not even clear that their true motives are what their supporters believe they are - Russia is not getting involved in Syria just because ISIS are bad men.

Putin says that the fate of the Assad regime should be decided by the Syrian people. That, presumably, includes those same Syrian people that protested against Assad, and whose families have been bombed, gassed or butchered by his forces, or who have been forced out of their homes. Also, it is more than a tad dubious to be taking lessons on the importance of democratic principles from Vladimir Putin. That said, I don't doubt that Russia has the greatest influence in this scenario and that what Putin says will go - and if that includes getting rid of Assad after ISIS and the extremist insurgency is crushed, then that's what will happen.

Any actual proof of the Assad GOVERNMENT being tyrannical and murderous? Did he just turn into a tyrant a few years ago ( when most people had never heard of him)? There's worse 'regimes' in the middle east but we turn a blind eye to those for economic reasons.

 

[DK]

It looks like Da'esh's propaganda is shifting; according to the security think-tank Quilliam, the majority of their propaganda over a period of one month or so is about portraying itself as a functioning state. It's an understatement to say that I'm creeped out.

 

[Dotini]

Any actual proof of the Assad GOVERNMENT being tyrannical and murderous? Did he just turn into a tyrant a few years ago ( when most people had never heard of him)? There's worse 'regimes' in the middle east but we turn a blind eye to those for economic reasons.

Assad ran one of the most liberal regimes that ever existed in the Middle East. Men could shave and drink alcohol. Women could wear western clothes and makeup in public. Muslims, Yazidis and Christians lived side by side in peace. Minorities were protected. But when it came Syria's turn to undergo a western-instigated regime change which would turn the multicultural country into one dominated by the Sunni majority under the false banner of democracy, Assad fought back. And hard, as he should have done. The plain fact is, the Middle East is more stable with secular dictators like Saddam Hussein, Gadhaffi and Assad in power. Look at the secular dictator General al-Sisi in Egypt, and the violently failed democracy which brought him to power there. Now, in the name of democracy, practically every state in the entire region is either failed, deep in sectarian conflict, flooded with refugees, or actively fueling the problem with arms, money and propaganda. The US and Britain, arrogantly, piously and imperiously, thought the region was our toy province, a Petri dish for social experiments and cultural engineering at the point of a gun. Those echoing the failed mantra of "Assad must go!" are still chewing sour grapes, working through the five stages of acceptance, starting with denial, ridicule and anger. Assad is not the evil tyrant. The real tyranny is violent democracy - the tyranny of the majority - imposed by violent revolution at the point of a gun.

 

[Touring Mars]

western-instigated regime change

Citation needed.

As for the rest of your post, it is all well and good blaming the whole of the Middle East's woes on the US and the UK, but you are conveniently forgetting the fact that the Middle East is pretty good at making a dire hash of things with or without outside intervention. The Syrian conflict is a case in point - striving for a more democratic government and way of life is not the fault of the West any more than a desire to entrench basic human rights is a 'Western' thing.

I reluctantly agree with your general point about secular dictators being necessary in places that are riven with deep religious and cultural differences - democracy is clearly not a one-size-fits-all policy. But before being so ready to blame the West for the region's ills, it is only fair to consider all of the reasons why so many Middle Eastern countries are in such a terrible state and, tellingly, why so many people from Syria, Iraq, Libya and elsewhere genuinely crave a life in Europe (especially the UK) where democracy and human rights are comparatively well respected. There is a general problem of governance in many Middle Eastern states that is well beyond the blame of external forces.

 

[Liquid]

Goes three pages back when we were all dreaming, but I think it'd be the coolest thing ever to see Russian and American troops walk in on different fronts and sweep to the capitol.

One approaching from the east and one approaching from the west?

Sounds like the fall of Berlin and North Germany. And we know what happened after that one...

 

[Sanji Himura]

Citation needed.

Well, we did take out, for all intents and purposes, Mubarak for basically the same reason, and he was an US ally. Assad is a Russian ally (why else would he allow a Russian FOB in his country), and we are trying to remove him from power thanks to this uptake in extremist violence.

The fact that Assad used mustard gas [and other chemical weapons] on his own people and closed his borders to journalists during the early days of the Syrian Civil War really rubbed the west the wrong way, especially when they are trying to remove him from power in the first place.

 

[Touring Mars]

Yes, but that doesn't equate to 'western instigated regime change' in Syria. The uprising was fully instigated by the Syrian people, and Western support for the pro-democracy movement followed. Unfortunately the reality on the ground has changed dramatically and now the US (and others) find themselves in the awkward position of backing anti-Assad rebels at a time when ISIS and other extremists stand to reap the benefit of that support.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Yes, but that doesn't equate to 'western instigated regime change' in Syria. The uprising was fully instigated by the Syrian people, and Western support for the pro-democracy movement followed. Unfortunately the reality on the ground has changed dramatically and now the US (and others) find themselves in the awkward position of backing anti-Assad rebels at a time when ISIS and other extremists stand to reap the benefit of that support.

There is a misconception here. While, yes, it is true that Syrian uprising was instigated by the Syrian people, where the misconception comes into play is that people are equating the root cause of what is happening in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East with the root cause of what happened in Egypt.

The Egyptian uprising (and subsequent near takeover by the Muslim Brotherhood), was directly caused by an election (a Constitutional referendum in 2007) result. Most of the country's Muslim population (at a whopping 90% of the total population Source: CIA World Fact Book) was not really happy with the result, and tensions boiled over in 2011. You can guess the story from there, Muslim Brotherhood wins the presidential election in 2012, tries to enforce extreme Sharia on the country through constitutional means and was ultimately booted from power by the army who then took over government.

Syria and primarily Libya played out as follows. Create a civil war where rebel forces occupy the Eastern portion of the country (in Syria, this was done primarily by ISIS, not unlike Libya where it was done by a coalition of rebel fighters), invade West to eventually take over the country. The only difference between the two is that Gaddafi was ultimately killed by the rebels and his body put out on public display (because he was trying to play nice with the US) and Assad is fighting back.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

I'll tell you what, let the English, Americans and Russians etc fight them just don't try to involve me in it.Because i am annoyed with the lot of them.That includes the governments.I feel sorry for the innocent people who get caught in the crossfire.Also if people had the balls and backbone in England and other countries they wouldn't allow these idiots to try and take over these countries.

 

[Rage Racer]

One approaching from the east and one approaching from the west?

Sounds like the fall of Berlin and North Germany. And we know what happened after that one...

To me, it sounds like something else:

Spoiler

If that altruistic intention is correct then perhaps the Russians could invent some way of flying troops/equipment over the anti-Assad rebels (who are also fighting ISIS, incidentally)?

Even though Russian Armed Forces are very well equipped, no doubt, they don't have magicians who could teleport the SAA forces (and their heavy eqipment, e.g. T-72 tanks) to a small area behind the rebel-held territory, without even a proper airfield on it. And even if they did, it wouldn't be a smart idea to get them trapped between the hammer and the anvil (ISIS and the "moderate rebels" shooting in the back).

I told already: if there really are any sane, moderate opponents to Assad, they must arrange a ceasefire with SAA.

UPD, new video.
Terrorists are moving their vehicles into inhabited areas:

 

[ExigeEvan]

From what I heard, what is believed to be a "cluster bomb exposion" is actually a destroyed underground bunker, and gases are coming out of the ventilation holes.

I never thought for a moment it was a cluster bomb, looks to me just like heavy frag.

Unfortunately, our Ministry of Defence is good on the battlefield, but they suck at the informational warfare. They forget to explain what's happening on their videos to an average Internet user who doesn't know how air munitions work.

Yeah I know plenty of how air munitions work thanks.

Jeeez...
Do you really think they brought these missiles just to show off for a camera?

I don't doubt they intend to use them, but much like the West I have no doubt the RuAF have a large stockpile of dumb bombs and whether they choose to or believe it's justified to stick a guidance kit on them I don't know. My opinion from some of those strike videos is that they clearly didn't.

May I ask you, please - what makes you think so? What does that stereotype - "Russians don't care for collateral damage" - come from?

Georgia?

The fighter jets responsible for the devastation had been targeting a military barracks in the built-up outskirts of Gori, a Georgian town 15 miles from the Ossetian frontier. They missed.

Just one of their bombs struck the base. At least two others fell in a compound of long, low-slung apartment blocks, five of which were quickly reduced to blackened shells. A third hit a small secondary school, which crumbled to the ground in a pile of rubble and twisted girders.

It's one thing to choose the wrong target (which America is certainly guilty of, and no doubt Britain), it's another to flat out miss. In contrast, the French dropped inert concrete bombs on tanks in Libya. Quite literally bludgeoning the vehicles that were located in urban areas.

Primary targets of the RuAF are not "$500 Toyota trucks". It's the strategical objects - command posts, fuel/ammo depots, explosives factories, etc. Some targets are large and can be hit with freefall bombs, some require more presicion and it's time for guided bombs (like KAB-500) or air-to-ground missiles to be used. And damage to the terrorists is quite worth the precious munition spent.

Those strategic targets are few and far between. This isn't industrial WW2 Germany, this is an army that takes food and water from the population, scavenges weapons from those that have fled and doesn't manufacture on an industrial scale.

Their HQs are small and fractured, there is no Div HQ to speak of. Many of the targets being hit such as bunkers and depots are more a case of denying conceded facilities, than actively targeting fighters.

[EDIT] You say RuAF isn't targeting 'technicals', and next thing you know you're posting a video of a technical.

Here's how the UK found targets in Iraq
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/01/slim-pickings-iraq/

 

[Dotini]

King Salman of Saudi Arabia is now hospitalized for the treatment of advanced dementia. The country is being ruled by his son. The noble princes and public are very worried by the invasion of Yemen, falling oil prices, and the management of Mecca. A struggle for leadership and power seem underway now in Riyadh. This has important implications for the continued Saudi financing of US-preferred terror groups in Syria.

 

[Dennisch]

King Salman of Saudi Arabia is now hospitalized for the treatment of advanced dementia. The country is being ruled by his son. The noble princes and public are very worried by the invasion of Yemen, falling oil prices, and the management of Mecca. A struggle for leadership and power seem underway now in Riyadh. This has important implications for the continued Saudi financing of US-preferred terror groups in Syria.

That should spark an interesting war.

 

[unit-one]

Russia launched 26 cruise missiles from 4 rocket ships.
All 11 targets destroyed. No civilian casualties. link

 

[mister dog]

And Iraq will seek more Russian involvement it seems:

https://www.rt.com/news/317853-iraq-russia-airstrikes-isis/

I hope everyone cooperates and coordinates with each other, and they can start a major offensive together.

 

[Rage Racer]

Russia launched 26 cruise missiles from 4 rocket ships.
All 11 targets destroyed. No civilian casualties. link

Putin's celebrating his birthday.
The Syrian army started advance in Hama province.

Georgia?



It's one thing to choose the wrong target (which America is certainly guilty of, and no doubt Britain), it's another to flat out miss.

It's one thing to miss, and it's another to not care about collateral damage at all, like you've said before.

Plus, the Russian forces that fought in the 2008 Ossetian war were very poor compared to today. In that war, Russia also messed up losing a Tu-22MR intel jet, for example. The flaws shown by the RF military lead to the major military reform started just after that war. Today, thanks to the new defence minister (Shoigu), Russian armed forces in general (and the Air Force in particular) have seriously evolved.

[EDIT] You say RuAF isn't targeting 'technicals', and next thing you know you're posting a video of a technical.

Do you see them being shot at? I think this is just scouting. RuAF and SAA cooperate for intel data exchange.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

If Saddam Hussain was not killed, then Iraq would have been a far safer place to be.And safer in the rest of the world too.People around the world are desparate to find people with backbone, balls and high intelligence to run their countries.If that isn't the case, then we are in so much trouble.We don't want morons, liars or idiots running the country end of.

 

[Rage Racer]

Fireworks on Putin's birthday, or Gift from the Caspian Sea.

 

[Dennisch]

Hooray for modern day camera technology!