The Wheel Inherent Advantage
- Thread starter HornetX1
- 241 comments
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- 17,099
- United Kingdom
Mate, I don't think anyone is buying the schtick. I think deep down you know if you got a wheel, you'd still get obliterated by people without Elephant man hands, so you look for reasons not to buy one, and even if you did get one, you'd some how blame your over developed wank-spanners for continuing to suck. I don't pretend to have any notable amount of wealth, but I've paid for the rental of properties in multiple countries, and the relocation between them, for my partner - if money isn't an issue for you, it'd be easy to overcome the "space/time" aspect you cite for not having a wheel, so which thing is it that you're lying about...?
You're definitely the weird testosterone date rape guy that got banned before.
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- 1,064
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
The response of all internet dwellers who get rightfully picked apart for their ridiculous claims (hey… next time I get on Sport mode I’m going to run a no-stopper, just for you), turn it round and make it seem like it was their plan all along.
Mate, you have achieved nothing in this thread except becoming a laughing stock. Cut your losses and move on. It is good entertainment though, so feel free to continue if you’d like.
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- 387
- United States
Pardon me if you already answered this, I didn't read 5 page's of this.
When you realize someone is using the op strategy of using a wheel do you intentionally wreck them?
When you realize someone is using the op strategy of using a wheel do you intentionally wreck them?
- 1,306
- Canada
I've recently decided to get better with a controller so I do my daily workouts with it. It's really hard for me without assists but something about being able to just pick up a controller and get a good time is satisfying. I'd imagine it would be, anyway, if I can get there.
The best part is that I learn things while using a controller that I can apply to my wheel time all the time. Things that take a few tenths off in one sector alone. It usually has to do with throttle control.
The best part is that I learn things while using a controller that I can apply to my wheel time all the time. Things that take a few tenths off in one sector alone. It usually has to do with throttle control.
- 709
- Pennsyltucky
- mellofello9
I've found my biggest battle with hitting my qualifying time during races is nerves...in those moments, for me, throttle control goes out the window. That's the main reason I want to move to a wheel, I think my foot will do a better job and they RARELY shake when the adrenaline is cranked to 11...😁
- 1,306
- Canada
I've never thought of that since I've never used a controller in an online race but I think I agree.
- 387
- United States
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
Ignoring who OP is, it's interesting that responses are mostly "wheels do not have an inherent advantage" or "wheels do have an inherent advantage, and that's a good thing."
I think it's pretty clear that stick steering just doesn't turn in well on hairpins due to the game's input smoothing, for example. Anything beyond problems caused by imperfect input smoothing is a skill issue yes, but there's definitely ways the game could improve for pad players. A way to minimize the slower turn in would be great.
I think it's pretty clear that stick steering just doesn't turn in well on hairpins due to the game's input smoothing, for example. Anything beyond problems caused by imperfect input smoothing is a skill issue yes, but there's definitely ways the game could improve for pad players. A way to minimize the slower turn in would be great.
- 1,339
- Australia
- TPC_Fudsy
There's a slider in settings to adjust stick smoothing. It's called "Controller Steering Sensitivity" and is accessed from the Settings > Controller Settings menu just before you start a race. Turning it up (to the right) reduces smoothing and makes controller steering more direct, moving left does the opposite.
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- 133
Because of the unfair advantage? 😏
PD already mark us by our country of origin, so why not?
Why? Wheel is a century years old design that no one has ever questioned.
- 1,538
- NRW - GT
I've been forced to drive with a gamepad for a good 2.5 to 3 weeks now.... I only started playing with a steering wheel at the end of last year, got out my old PS3 with GT6 and found it SUPER right away. So try to get a PS5 without going broke..... OK didn't work.. So bought a PS4pro.. GTS and after a few days the normal T150 I started with upgraded with the T-LCM. More days and a better steering wheel were needed. Then came GT7 and I enjoyed it...I never thought of racing with a gamepad again except for drifting...The first few days were hell...I didn't like the feeling and my times were UNDERGROUND... .. Now after some time and many..many hours of practice... I can at least say that I've gotten really good. It's the first time I've been promoted to A and I'm doing well there too. I achieved a 1.42.066 in Kyoto yesterday and clearly exceeded my best time of 1.42.494 for the day. I see a 1.41.xxx clearly achievable for me DESPITE the gamepad. It's really a matter of practice and how precisely you can deal with the inputs AND it takes a good deal of "knowledge" about what's happening with the car and how to move it as optimally as possible. I'm not claiming that I'm a super driver, but by constantly watching and listening to my car on the track and experimenting with what's better/faster, I'm gradually figuring out how I should be driving.
TLDR: A gamepad driver can be quite good...and precise driving...and no joke when it comes to braking power and accelerator pedals, the fingers are far more precise and sensitive than most feet ever can be.
(Unfortunately, my problem is still... braking cleanly and precisely when I have to steer at the same time, especially when a full steering angle is not necessary.)
- 603
- TonyLomas
I much prefer playing with a wheel. I feel it's faster than a pad in most situations. Apart from Rally, drifting and very tight twisty tracks. But that might just be me.
I mainly use the wheel because it's more fun. I don't care about being a second a lap quicker as there are hundreds of players that are 8 seconds a lap quicker than me. I just race in my DR group or against the AI.
The other massive advantage of the wheel is that it's actually made me a better driver. In real life, I've had 3 occasions where my reactions and Gran Turismo practice has made me avoid a serious accident.
Once with a patch of black ice on a motorway.
Once an accident occurred right in front of me on the motorway with 2 cars swerving across all 3 lanes.
Once when a car pulled out into the side of my vehicle.
Without GT I would have definitely spun and crashed.
I mainly use the wheel because it's more fun. I don't care about being a second a lap quicker as there are hundreds of players that are 8 seconds a lap quicker than me. I just race in my DR group or against the AI.
The other massive advantage of the wheel is that it's actually made me a better driver. In real life, I've had 3 occasions where my reactions and Gran Turismo practice has made me avoid a serious accident.
Once with a patch of black ice on a motorway.
Once an accident occurred right in front of me on the motorway with 2 cars swerving across all 3 lanes.
Once when a car pulled out into the side of my vehicle.
Without GT I would have definitely spun and crashed.
- 709
- Pennsyltucky
- mellofello9
That's another big motivator for me...the engagement/fun factor. I've been able to post a couple top 100 times in GTS and I'm not fighting for DFL in the A/S splits so the DualShock is up to the challenge if you're willing to put in the practice, there's no doubt about that.
Similar could be said for sound...some people can play in absolute silence. I am not that person. The sound of the motor, tires and competitors make ALL the difference while I'm driving. After that I'll just need some air fresheners that smell like race gas and tire smoke for the full-on 4D effect.
- 1,054
- Braga, Portugal
- pedrocor
So... It should be this way... People drop 900 USD for a top wheel/pedal setup and is unfair that is better than the default D-Pad? It should be the other way around?
Yes, many of us can't afford that.
But, having to small children, I can't practice as much as I should and I realised something in GT Sport, I achieved fine results on new dailies at Mondays and the results would be worst as the week would go further because other people kept practicing, get better strategies and so on... it's unfair too? 🤔
Should be a rating system with decreasing DR points as the players repeat the same races/do more qualifying laps as the week progress? Should I be paired by the number of times I repeated the same daily race?
As for wheels, there are also many kinds of models, with totally different price ranges, is not the same thing using a thrustmaster T80 or a Fanatec DD, so there should be a distinction here too, by the way 😛
EDIT: by the way, I went all the way through until GT6 with controller, only buying a wheel for GT Sport, since then revisited those old games with the wheel and still struggle to get the same times in licence tests and so.
No doubt I'm far more consistent on the long runs with the wheel, less prone to mistakes.
Which seems to be the major disadvantage of wheel users to OP (the fatigue)...
Yes, many of us can't afford that.
But, having to small children, I can't practice as much as I should and I realised something in GT Sport, I achieved fine results on new dailies at Mondays and the results would be worst as the week would go further because other people kept practicing, get better strategies and so on... it's unfair too? 🤔
Should be a rating system with decreasing DR points as the players repeat the same races/do more qualifying laps as the week progress? Should I be paired by the number of times I repeated the same daily race?
As for wheels, there are also many kinds of models, with totally different price ranges, is not the same thing using a thrustmaster T80 or a Fanatec DD, so there should be a distinction here too, by the way 😛
EDIT: by the way, I went all the way through until GT6 with controller, only buying a wheel for GT Sport, since then revisited those old games with the wheel and still struggle to get the same times in licence tests and so.
No doubt I'm far more consistent on the long runs with the wheel, less prone to mistakes.
Which seems to be the major disadvantage of wheel users to OP (the fatigue)...
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- 387
- United States
I disagree. Practice makes for more precise drivers and better races as the week progresses. Even pro racing has several hours of practice on the days leading up to a race, because "practice makes perfect."
But the point is The Wheel advantage. Someone earlier said PD doesnt allow controller users at the highest levels. Didnt Igor Fraga get to his first finals using a controller, and then had to learn to use a wheel for the finals? Dude ends up becoming a pro racer. All because he got an opportunity because he was so fast with a controller.
It can happen
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- 364
- Vancouver
- GUNSLINGER_R450
I have to offer a different consideration when discussing advantages/disadvantages when racing online.
I've used a controller since day one. GT1. I've tried wheels and never felt like they were an improvement. In online racing I achieved an "B" rating in Sport but with penalties and such, "B" rating was more indictive of where I was comfortable competing. I won races so I was never put off by losing to A guys. I figured it's the view they use or an expensive sim cockpit with all the doo-dads that gives them an advantage. Not enough of a reason for me to sweat the A rating I didn't always hold.
I honestly think the biggest difference is the view you use. I used the bumper cam in the early games and used cockpit view whenever I could. I choose cockpit view now as its supposed to be a simulation and I would like to enjoy the in car experience that the developers have provided. I wanted to be Ron Fellows in a C6R flat out on the Mulsanne with all the sounds the Corvette could muster. Chase view for me, is for arcade style racing games and when I play those I'm good with that.
My point to argue would be around the alternative views over the cockpit. I don't think I am at a disadvantage using a controller unless I'm up against player who has a massively expensive sim set up. Someone using a wheel perched on their lap on the couch is no threat to me.
So for me, any discussion on advantages/disadvantages should center around the view used.
I've used a controller since day one. GT1. I've tried wheels and never felt like they were an improvement. In online racing I achieved an "B" rating in Sport but with penalties and such, "B" rating was more indictive of where I was comfortable competing. I won races so I was never put off by losing to A guys. I figured it's the view they use or an expensive sim cockpit with all the doo-dads that gives them an advantage. Not enough of a reason for me to sweat the A rating I didn't always hold.
I honestly think the biggest difference is the view you use. I used the bumper cam in the early games and used cockpit view whenever I could. I choose cockpit view now as its supposed to be a simulation and I would like to enjoy the in car experience that the developers have provided. I wanted to be Ron Fellows in a C6R flat out on the Mulsanne with all the sounds the Corvette could muster. Chase view for me, is for arcade style racing games and when I play those I'm good with that.
My point to argue would be around the alternative views over the cockpit. I don't think I am at a disadvantage using a controller unless I'm up against player who has a massively expensive sim set up. Someone using a wheel perched on their lap on the couch is no threat to me.
So for me, any discussion on advantages/disadvantages should center around the view used.
- 945
- Uk
- TheLeggacy
I wonder if a particularly good drone pilot out there might have the thumbs to take on a wheel user? As an RC glider pilot I’ve got quite good dexterity in my thumbs and am much smoother and faster than my friends who make sharp stabbing, full throw movements. But I have a wheel and I don’t enjoy playing with a pad so I don’t practice on it.
I’m pretty sure that there has been at least one player who made it to the GT finals that had never used a wheel until he turned up to the event. Am I dreaming or did I read that somewhere?
Also I have met players who have a wheel, sometimes quite expensive, who totally suck and get beaten by pad players. You can get good with a pad it just takes loads of practice.
I’m pretty sure that there has been at least one player who made it to the GT finals that had never used a wheel until he turned up to the event. Am I dreaming or did I read that somewhere?
Also I have met players who have a wheel, sometimes quite expensive, who totally suck and get beaten by pad players. You can get good with a pad it just takes loads of practice.
- 313
- Superior, WI
- Hobsonmartez-
I'd be interested in this also because we don't have a way of testing whether a controller and a steering wheel have the same performance in a controlled environment. Without scientific testing it ends up being a mess like the physics thread is sometimes.
Watching replays, asking my friends with wheels and controllers to replicate replays and the S-bend at Suzuka after 130R a hundred times, I've kinda figured how to explain my issue with the state of controller steering vs wheel steering.
It's the slowness/increasing filtered steering at the last degrees of steering lock that keep the controller from being competitive with wheel users at the highest levels. It's frustrating because it makes hairpins, tight S-bends and bowls/banks impossible to late apex/ride the apex without losing severe entry/exit speed because of understeer.
10 Sensitivity doesn't help either, which is the most confusing part.
I think who you're referred to is David Solis, If can I remember his name correctly.
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- 1,777
- Florida, USA
I look at it like this, the wheels not a advantage, it's the baseline of what you would use to drive/race a car,
the controller is a general input device that's been adapted to racing, thus it's like walking on your hands & knees instead of walking.
the controller is a general input device that's been adapted to racing, thus it's like walking on your hands & knees instead of walking.
- 5,662
- Ulricehamn
- Status
