The Xbox One Thread - One X & One SXBOne 

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Bah... Who needs a wheel anyway with Kinect always on.......

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Wardez
If that's the case, the Xbone would also then be able to support Logitech wheels and Thrustmaster. Probably not gonna happen, the 360 used a different, proprietary, protocol called XID. Then there's also Xinput, which is a proprietary API that allows PCs to talk to 360 controllers.

Fanatecs' wheels used XID wireless to connect to the 360 (you can't use a wired connection) and an HID (universal protocol) USB connection for the PS3 and PC. In order for it to be able to even "talk" to the 360 it needed a proprietary RF module with a security chip in it and this RF module will be changed for the Xbone as has been reported. MS takes their security very seriously and they're not known for liking backwards compatibility, so I doubt it can work at all.

As you said though, MS could work on some sort of adapter solution at cost.
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That security stuff is only related to wireless solutions. I even wrote in my post above that it had some sort of proprietary encrypted wireless protocoll, but only wireless.

This is not the case for USB connections. Heck, the Xbox One is basically a computer, the wheel would work just as it would on every normal PC.

Why do you think it wouldn't be possible via USB? As far as I know the USB ports do not have any sort of hardware based encryption.
And software... lol. Software can be changed. You don't really think the MS guys aren't able to implement such a feature?
 
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Because, like I said, they would have to go ahead and make all wheels compatible if they were to use HID instead of XID/Xinput. Fanatecs use two set of electronics on their multi-platform wheels, the USB set is HID, so if things go as they always have, it won't work on the Xbone.

And the adapter I was talking about was for the wireless interface, not USB.
 
Wardez
Because, like I said, they would have to go ahead and make all wheels compatible if they were to use HID instead of XID/Xinput. Fanatecs use two set of electronics on their multi-platform wheels, the USB set is HID, so if things go as they always have, it won't work on the Xbone.

And the adapter I was talking about was for the wireless interface, not USB.
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What?
Why would they have to change anything on the wheels if they implement a USB support on the Xbox One. You're talking about HID and all that stuff, it's not as if the damn Xbox One couldn't offer HID over USB and act just as a normal computer for the wheel. It's all software based (only on the console side) on the USB ports, so where's again your problem?

Adapter? But I wasn't even talking about the adapter AS I CLEARLY WROTE IN MY POST.
Fanatec USB cable --> Xbox One USB port (is it really that difficult?)

But I can talk about the adapter solution.
Guess how that thing worked for PC? You think they didn't integrate the needed hard- and software on that adapter/receiver?
Wonder how UMTS sticks work? Or WLAN sticks? Or Bluetooth sticks?



Anyway, why would you quote the part of my post where I was talking about the USB cable solution instead of the part where I mention the other adapter based solution? You were clearly answering on my explanation of how to support wheels over USB cable. So you either quoted the wrong part of my post or simply don't understand what I was actually talking about.
 
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Eks
All those installations are gonna fill up the HDD very fast....then what?
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From Gamespot's interview with Microsoft Game Studios VP Phil Spencer

Q: Given that all games need to be installed, is a 500GB [hard drive]…that doesn't seem very big. I'm assuming some of the games are going to be pretty huge now coming on Blu-rays.

A: We did a lot of testing; we looked at the content that's being created today and what our roadmap looked like in terms of content creation. One thing I'd say about content today is you see content being delivered at many different levels. You have big, disc-based games that come out, but you also see games that start more service-related; where they come out small and they grow as the person builds their experience. Our math says that the 500 gigs will be a lot of storage space for the gamer in terms of how much game local data that they will save. Obviously, the game is yours, so if you were to delete something off the hard drive, you could obviously always re-install something if [you] ran into a situation where you were running out of space. But our math, when we look at the number of games that somebody usually owns and the content they consume, we think the hard drive will be a nice hard drive for people.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/xbox-one-microsoft-talks-used-games-always-on-6408725/

My personal opinion is they are saying nobody needs to have access to dozens of games instantly. Theres plenty of room for 10 or so games to be installed at any given time and you can swap these out with others if you want (delete one, install another). Really puts gamers in a box. I had thought 1TB was the bear minimum for a console that was digital download only or full install only. Make no mistake about, Microsoft will release new versions of the console with much larger Hard drives as time goes on. For now 500GB must be in their budget.

Samus
I am struggling to think of a reason for forcing full game installs without the need for a disc except to make the used game system make sense.

PS3 load times from disc were not that much worse than 360 and the new Blu Ray drives in both machines are 6x where the PS3 was 2x which means a theoretical 3x quicker read rate. I'm sure that will be ample and Sony certainly seem to think so.
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With what they're aiming for, the quick changes between music, movies, games and TV, the more content you have already installed on the HDD the easier it is to do that.

Its impossible to instantly switch between a bluray disc game and a bluray disc movie. If they make games digital on the HDD, then that makes room for the disc drive to be occupied by a bluray movie.

HBR-Roadhog
You can fully install games on the 360 but it checks to see if the disc is in the drive before it lets you play the game. I would much rather have this method than online checks. I also really dislike the notion that I can't lend a game to a friend at let them try it.

Of course the big issue for me is the Fanatec wheel support.

The DRM I feel is a very bad thing and I am strongly against it on principal though it would have very little effect on me if any I still don't like it and have a hard time paying money that will support this method but if they do not do something about the wheel support that is a definite deal breaker.
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The way the 360 does it sounds so much better. I hope they make that an option. But it may get in the way of any anti-used games measures they could be taking
 
PAPPACLART
I bet the Marketing guys have re-written the script for E3, just to show that the Xbox one is all about games!!!
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Why rewrite? It was planned to have one show to unveil the console and the other one to show games.

Nothing really changed.
 
Jawehawk
Sony already stated that they are leaving all things regarding used games to the individual puplishers. In other words, they aren't enforcing any global DRM on the PS4. Unless of course they change their original statement.
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It's an interesting situation. The way Sony are taking a back seat and leaving it all down to the publishers raises an eyebrow with me.

If that's the case then surely the PS4 must have some DRM built in if the publisher requires it.
Almost saying we have a big red button we can press if EA tell us to.

In fairness the gaming industry is in a change right now. Laugh as much as you like at iPads and phones etc but the landscape has changed in the last 3 years at least.
Big triple A games costs are rising surely with the extras needed for next gen games. As well as manufacture.
Pubs/Devs getting a cut out of all sales on IOS now want a cut on all games on home consoles.

Some games retailers did take the piss offering 2nd hand goods for only £5 less the RRP. Of which Devs got nothing.

It's the rental market I feel sorry for. Some games only lasted a single play through and prices didn't reflect the value of the game.

Maybe these online Xboxs,PS4 could offer a decent rental service. Maybe 24hr rental could really mean 24 hr via an internal play clock.
I'm a savvy gamer. I know what sort of games are keepers and what's worth only a rent.
 
Tornado
Why are we assuming that Microsoft will allow HID devices to work with the Xbone in the first place?
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Only wheels, because the Xbox One does not support the hardware encrypted wireless protocoll of the Xbox 360.
 
The Xbone more likely than not won't support HID devices at all, regardless of what type of controller it is or how it is connected. The Fanatec wheels when connected through USB don't work as XID devices, so if the Xbone doesn't support HID they won't work over USB. The Fanatec wheels do work as XID devices when connected wirelessly, so if the Xbone only supports XID the only way to get the wheels to work with it will be an adapter that allows the old wireless signal to work with the new system; exactly as Wardez was saying.
 
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Tornado
The Xbone more likely than not won't support HID devices at all, regardless of what type of controller it is or how it is connected. The Fanatec wheels when connected through USB don't work as XID devices, so if the Xbone doesn't support HID they won't work over USB. The Fanatec wheels do work as XID devices when connected wirelessly, so if the Xbone only supports XID the only way to get the wheels to work with it will be an adapter that allows the old wireless signal to work with the new system; exactly as Wardez was saying.
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It was actually me who brought the adapter into play. And software is changeable, not impossible to add it. I'm sure we'll see on the E3 how they're planning to solve it. Unless Forza will be presented by only using gamepads...

Soooo you can't even use a keyboard on the xbox one... interesting. Keyboards worked on the Xbox 360, you know. Guess that's another negative point.
Or how do you define "more likely"? As likely as the Xbox 360? Well it did. As likely as the Xbox did? Well it did, although it had no USB ports it still used the USB protocol and you could use any USB device on it.

Tell me, what let's you think this? Did MS say anything like this?
 
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It's very much impossible to add it if Microsoft has no desire to do so; and there is no reason to believe that they do. Wheel users essentially represent a niche of a niche that Fanatec already had to jump through a lot of loopholes in the XID protocol to properly support, and Microsoft have announced that regular 360 controllers won't work either; so Microsoft probably aren't planning to solve it just like they haven't bothered solving any of the problems that came up when they dropped Xinput equipment on the PC. People will likely just have to buy new equipment.
 
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Tornado
It's very much impossible to add it if Microsoft has no desire to do so; and there is no reason to believe that they do. Wheel users essentially represent a niche of a niche that Fanatec already had to jump through a lot of loopholes in the Xinput protocol to properly support, and Microsoft have announced that regular 360 controllers won't work either; so Microsoft probably aren't planning to solve it. People will likely just have to buy new equipment.
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It's all about the IF if you haven't noticed.


If they'd want it, they could.

EDIT: Could you read the edit from my previous post? I'm wondering why you think it won't be possible to use USB keyboards on the Xbox One.
 
Everything is an "if" situation at this point, yes.


But I don't see any reason to think that they would give up their closed interface protocol that they get to double dip on licencing fees with for all controllers in favor of the open standard one PCs and the PS3 use where they have little control over what hardware functions with their system. Especially not after some of amar's posts on the subject making it clear just how much control Microsoft has with XID devices.

dr_slump
Could you read the edit from my previous post? I'm wondering why you think it won't be possible to use USB keyboards on the Xbox One.
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I was referring strictly to controllers. Not UI devices. My bad.
 
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Tornado
Everything is an "if" situation at this point, yes.


But I don't see any reason to think that they would give up their closed interface protocol that they get to double dip on licencing fees with for all controllers in favor of the open standard one PCs and the PS3 use where they have little control over what hardware functions with their system. Especially not after some of amar's posts on the subject making it clear just how much control Microsoft has with XID devices.
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You must know, I wouldn't be surprised if Forza 5 comes with no wheel or only 1 extremely high priced fanatec wheel supported (which probably won't even be avaible at release).


This would automatically make it a no buy for me, just saying. Of course, it's just me.



EDIT: Post 5000! :gtpflag:
 
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We're talking about wheels, XID and HID handle FFB differently.

That's the important matter here, common peripherals like keyboards will work because the drivers are universal and you don't need crazy protocols to have them to work, no XID vs. HID involved.

Not sure why you're trying to be so condescending in your posts btw slump, seems like I'm trying to have a discussion and you're trying to have an e-peen contest for some reason. Everything ok at home?
 
Wardez
We're talking about wheels, XID and HID handle FFB differently.

That's the important matter here, common peripherals like keyboards will work because the drivers are universal and you don't need crazy protocols to have them to work, no XID vs. HID involved.
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Keyboards do have HID involved...

Not sure why you're trying to be so condescending in your posts btw slump, seems like I'm trying to have a discussion and you're trying to have an e-peen contest for some reason. Everything ok at home?
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Maybe because I feel as if we're talking from one point to the other without actually hitting eachother.

I didn't like how it started by straying away from my cable point to the adapter to say I'm wrong because wireless stuff need XID, although I wasn't even talking about those wireless solutions at that point.
I felt it was kinda intentional from you to ignore my aim to show how they could do things different for this case and use a wheel limited game interface for Forza based on HID just as it's the case with PCs. Point was how to do something different to possibly solve an issue.
Unless you really want to say that's sort of impossible out of whatever reason, and it's not XID, because if they wanted it then they could implement it without XID or whatever crap. Even after release since it's only software based, while the wireless version is not.

From the point on you decided to go a parallel route I started going to be harsher. Sadly even harsh on Tornado, I agree. Probably it's a bad habit from me that I can't stand it if somebody does not seem to try to understand what I'm saying. And yes, that's how I felt.

I wasn't harsh until post 1534

Imari
Seems...optimistic.
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I'm not really talking much about expectations, mine are rather small considering what I've seen from MS in last time.
It's more the possibility... and hope.
 
Thats how their gonna handle the wheel support issue. You sit in your rig turning your wheel and kinect will read your movements and bam your racin. I knew M$ had to have some plan.
 
heh heh, you gotta love going overboard with all this.

5WXh32l.jpg


And, before anyone gets wise, yes this is just a joke.
 
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How do we connect headsets with the Xbox? Does the controller have any ports? Is it a new system?

Do we have to yell at kinect?
 
I think there was a port on the bottom of the controller that looks like the one on the Xbox 360 controller.
 

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