Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman
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Joey D
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After being rudely interrupted from the 9th inning of the Tiger's game to hear a verdict that was not surprising at all I feel like I want to comment on the trial.
This was another media frenzy case where the prosecution goes after the wrong charges and thus doesn't get a conviction. Second degree murder was going to be very hard to prove, but I bet if they would have started with manslaughter, they would have gotten him on it. I know the jury had the option to find him guilty of that, but that's basically allowing a handful of people with little to no law experience to find someone they don't know guilty on a charge they know very little about.
Same thing happened in the Casey Anthony case, trying to get her on first degree murder was stupid and was nothing they were ever going to prove. If they would have gone for second degree she would have been found guilty all day long.
From what I could tell with the case was the Zimmerman started crap with Martin for whatever reason, Martin retaliated, and when Zimmerman started to lose the fight he ended up killing Martin. I don't think Zimmerman ever intended to kill Martin, but in the moment he did ended up killing him, which would be classified manslaughter based on my limited knowledge of the subject.
Oh well, I guess now we get to hear endless conversation about the Boston bombing guy for the next year or whatever because you know, terrorism.
This was another media frenzy case where the prosecution goes after the wrong charges and thus doesn't get a conviction. Second degree murder was going to be very hard to prove, but I bet if they would have started with manslaughter, they would have gotten him on it. I know the jury had the option to find him guilty of that, but that's basically allowing a handful of people with little to no law experience to find someone they don't know guilty on a charge they know very little about.
Same thing happened in the Casey Anthony case, trying to get her on first degree murder was stupid and was nothing they were ever going to prove. If they would have gone for second degree she would have been found guilty all day long.
From what I could tell with the case was the Zimmerman started crap with Martin for whatever reason, Martin retaliated, and when Zimmerman started to lose the fight he ended up killing Martin. I don't think Zimmerman ever intended to kill Martin, but in the moment he did ended up killing him, which would be classified manslaughter based on my limited knowledge of the subject.
Oh well, I guess now we get to hear endless conversation about the Boston bombing guy for the next year or whatever because you know, terrorism.
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- mikeybc
True, but I think the defense was expecting a quicker verdict with only 6 jurors. I think this deliberation was around average for a sequestered jury...2 days.
Remember O.J. case ? The Jury was sequestered for over 8 months but only deliberated for around 4 hours with 12 jurors.
Manslaughter was on the table for the jury to convict Zimmerman with, but Florida's "stand your ground" law allows the use of deadly force if one is in fear of great bodily harm or death....Great bodily harm could have occurred if he took a couple more blows to the head against the sidewalk.
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- 2,037
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No. Their audio "expert" failed to differentiate the voices on the 911 call, and that evidence was thrown out for them. The defense "expert", an FBI agent at that, did managed to differentiate the voices on the 911 call, pushing that physical evidence in favor of the defense. All the prosecution managed to do was get physical evidence the defense was using thrown out - like pictures of Martin associating with known gang members, using assault weapons, other assault and battery offenses Martin committed, and a picture of Martin with a substantial amount of drugs. So all in all, the defense, even with its reduced physical evidence repertoire, was the only side with real concrete physical evidence on its side, leaving the prosecution with just hearsay. ...And yet people are still surprised that the murder charge was thrown out
. I will not form an opinion on the possible manslaughter conviction, I don't know enough to know whether or not that would have fit, but I understand how that one could have gone either way.
Joey D
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Right, but that was giving the jury the right to make a call on a charge that the case wasn't built around. They probably didn't know enough to actually make the call for manslaughter. The prosecution should have just started the case with manslaughter charges and Zimmerman would have been guilty all day long.
And the stand your ground law is one of those things that works in some situations, but in others it makes no sense. Based on the information I've seen presented, it looks like Zimmerman instigated the fight and ended up on the losing it pretty quick. Like I said I don't think Zimmerman went into the situation thinking he was going to kill Martin, but he also probably didn't think he was going to get his backside beat either.
I'm guessing Zimmerman has a wee bit of a power trip since it seems to be a common theme with "neighborhood watches" and just wanted to act authoritative to what he saw as a punk kid. Martin either didn't want to take it or just panicked, which started the fight.
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- mikeybc
Not sure if the prosecutions evidence would have or could have been any different, though interestingly in the 14 hour or so into deliberation the jury did ask for further clarification of manslaughter in which the lawyers responded with a note to be more specific in their request or if they had a specific question regarding manslaughter to ask it, I didn't hear if the jury came back with a more specific request or not...maybe that helped pushed the jury towards not guilty ? So maybe you do have a point there...the prosecution should have educated the jury more on manslaughter instead of trying to cram second degree murder with ill intentions down their throats. In the end I feel both parties made very bad choices that night.
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Actually I am, I haven't offered an opinion on it, I just wanted to gauge some of the opinions of this forum.
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- Rektxngle
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I'm absolutely laughing on Twitter. People are really using race as the cause of all of this happening.
and this...
and this...
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- a6m5zero
I'm familiar with just one of those cases, so no, I wouldn't be able to comment on it.
Regarding the verdict, although I still feel that Zimmerman is, to a degree, even if not legally, responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman has suffered enough for his part in the incident. Thanks to the mostly one-sided media, with even the President of the United States sort of weighing in, I doubt public opinion will be kind to Zimmerman for years to come.
If Zimmerman was truly innocent, I would feel very bad for the man. I come out of this with the impression that truly guilty party are the likes of the NBC, who edited the 911 call to make it seem as though Zimmerman singled out Martin for his ethnicity. In my mind, NBC deserve to go to jail for sure.
Regarding the verdict, although I still feel that Zimmerman is, to a degree, even if not legally, responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman has suffered enough for his part in the incident. Thanks to the mostly one-sided media, with even the President of the United States sort of weighing in, I doubt public opinion will be kind to Zimmerman for years to come.
If Zimmerman was truly innocent, I would feel very bad for the man. I come out of this with the impression that truly guilty party are the likes of the NBC, who edited the 911 call to make it seem as though Zimmerman singled out Martin for his ethnicity. In my mind, NBC deserve to go to jail for sure.
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But, but, but, but, but, but our Vice President Joe Biden says it's ok to do so.
All in all, I'm still not convinced who is who and what is what in this case. I can see both sides of the coin. They both have the strong points and weak points. I guess we have to take it for what it is though, the decision was made.
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- mikeybc
Not only threat to your life but also the threat of great bodily injury, a few more hard hits on the cement could have caused Zimmerman to be left with brain damage. His injuries were not that bad probably due to his resistance, but if he lost consciousness like he said he felt like was going to happen it could have been much worse.
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But you're assuming that someone can always tell when they are in mortal danger and can discharge their weapon appropriately.
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No, I mean you're assuming that a person can always tell when they are in mortal peril and discharge a weapon appropriately.
As in, they can tell when they are in mortal peril in every conceivable scenario. Not just the one particular set of circumstances that you have outlined.
As in, they can tell when they are in mortal peril in every conceivable scenario. Not just the one particular set of circumstances that you have outlined.
arora
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That is where the jury comes into play. If I shot and killed you because you where squirting a ketchup bottle at me across the burger king and claimed my life was in danger? Well....
I actually believe your stink is with the guy's actions leading up to the confrontation, which is a whole other mater. I believe he could have handled the situation in a much better way that would not have lead to the death of a young man, but that doesn't mater one bit in the blind eyes of the law.
If you are the physical aggressor you take your chances, and the defender's rights will usually be protected regardless the outcome of the confrontation.
I actually believe your stink is with the guy's actions leading up to the confrontation, which is a whole other mater. I believe he could have handled the situation in a much better way that would not have lead to the death of a young man, but that doesn't mater one bit in the blind eyes of the law.
If you are the physical aggressor you take your chances, and the defender's rights will usually be protected regardless the outcome of the confrontation.
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- Zenith113
They can't always make an accurate call. All the better reason to not physically assault somebody. This is true in so many parts of life. It is rare to know an aggressor's intentions while they are showing aggression towards you.
Do you have an alternative? Should we make convict more people in self defense cases on the chance that the attacker was totally just playin' bro?
Sorry ma'am, we're convicting you of murder because that man who was climbing on top of you could've been looking for a hug.
Do you have an alternative? Should we make convict more people in self defense cases on the chance that the attacker was totally just playin' bro?
Sorry ma'am, we're convicting you of murder because that man who was climbing on top of you could've been looking for a hug.
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- a6m5zero
Exactly. I think the case became an uphill for the prosecution the moment Martin allegedly(?) became the aggressor.
I still think Zimmerman was an idiot for following Martin, even after being told by 911 that he didn't need to do that, but Zimmerman did not break any law there.
I kept thinking that this case was going to be a lesson for all the gun owners in America, but looking at it from this angle, it's actually a lesson for young kids to approach something like this with level head.
I still think Zimmerman was an idiot for following Martin, even after being told by 911 that he didn't need to do that, but Zimmerman did not break any law there.
I kept thinking that this case was going to be a lesson for all the gun owners in America, but looking at it from this angle, it's actually a lesson for young kids to approach something like this with level head.
