Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman

[Dmarc_Atl]

Honestly though, the real story with the case was the media's coverage and blatant spin. It's also been interesting to watch the parents, prosecutors, and supporters of Martin attempt to work off of the innocent child vs racist white guy image.

Couldn't you say the defense was doing the same thing?Painting Trayvon as just another thug with the pictures they used of him?

I'm absolutely laughing on Twitter. People are really using race as the cause of all of this happening.

and this...

Yea I hate the fact that people keep bringing race in this but if you listen to George phone call to the police it could taken as being racial profiling.But considering its not clearly racial profiling I guess its okay to just assume it was or wasnt..I personally dont have a stance rather it was or not.

Its scary knowing we live in a world were somebody can provoke you and you beat him up and the person kills you and gets off scott free.

I still think Zimmerman was an idiot for following Martin, even after being told by 911 that he didn't need to do that, but Zimmerman did not break any law there.

Thats the sad part.It could have all been avoided if he didnt follow him, and because of that I just cant see how trayvon would be at fault.I believe if trayvon killed him, he wouldve got off free too.The laws are really screwed up.

 

[niky]

Not completely surprised at the ruling. Just the physical evidence that Zimmerman was mauled, plus the testimonies... painted an acceptable case of self-defense.

That was enough for reasonable doubt. Even if I am of the mind that Zimmerman's actions created the situation, no non-physical provocation is enough to justify beating a man black and blue.

-

That said, the prosecution were probably over-reaching, and could have won a lesser case. And that said, again, even if they lost, I have no doubt Zimmerman's troubles are far from over.

His life will never, ever, be the same.

 

[Northstar]

Couldn't you say the defense was doing the same thing?

There is quite a difference between a lawyer in-trial and the media. Mainly the fact one is expected to be biased while one is expected to deliver unbiased reports. I'll let you decide which is which.

Painting Trayvon as just another thug with the pictures they used of him?

That's like saying it's unfair to label a pedo as a pedo because of the pictures of him being a pedo. Pictures can tell a lot about a person.

 

[Zenith]

Couldn't you say the defense was doing the same thing?Painting Trayvon as just another thug with the pictures they used of him?

You mean the kid on academic probation, smokes weed, poses with pictures of handguns, and beat up a man could be seen as a thug?

Yea I hate the fact that people keep bringing race in this but if you listen to George phone call to the police it could taken as being racial profiling.But considering its not clearly racial profiling I guess its okay to just assume it was or wasnt..I personally dont have a stance rather it was or not.

No it wasn't. You can try to extract racism out of it, but Zimmerman says nothing to suggest prejudice towards blacks.

Its scary knowing we live in a world were somebody can provoke you and you beat him up and the person kills you and gets off scott free.

Thats the sad part.It could have all been avoided if he didnt follow him, and because of that I just cant see how trayvon would be at fault.I believe if trayvon killed him, he wouldve got off free too.The laws are really screwed up.

Getting off for beating a man to death? Not likely.

I'd be more scared to live in a world where I could be convicted of second degree murder without good evidence.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

That was enough for reasonable doubt. Even if I am of the mind that Zimmerman's actions created the situation, no non-physical provocation is enough to justify beating a man black and blue.

If a random dude is staring at me at night, then I run a way and he follows me, im automatically thinking he's trying to harm me.I guess thats what it all boils down to.Rather you think its justified to take action if you believe your danger or hide and call police and hope they can get to you in time.

There is quite a difference between a lawyer in-trial and the media. Mainly the fact one is expected to be biased while one is expected to deliver unbiased reports. I'll let you decide which is which.
That's like saying it's unfair to label a pedo as a pedo because of the pictures of him being a pedo. Pictures can tell a lot about a person.

The picture of trayvon as a thug was used in the media too.Why didnt they use George mug shot in the media? I mean a convicted felon is a convicted felon right? Pictures surely can tell alot about a person and if you want to believe that Trayvon was a thug based on them, your also proving how you cant judge a person based on a picture.I wonder why when people supposedly hacked trayvon email address to find more incriminating evidences but came up empty and instead found numerous scholarship applications and SAT topics wasnt plastered all of the media outlets? I mean they are trying to paint him as a good kid right?

You mean the kid on academic probation, smokes weed, poses with pictures of handguns, and beat up a man could be seen as a thug?
No it wasn't. You can try to extract racism out of it, but Zimmerman says nothing to suggest prejudice towards blacks.
Getting off for beating a man to death? Not likely.
I'd be more scared to live in a world where I could be convicted of second degree murder without good evidence.

3 out of 4 of the things you listed doesnt describe a thug at all, and considering he wasnt posing with a gun,supposedly he took a picture of his hand holding a gun doesnt seem very thuggish to me at all.
He doesnt have to say anything, the fact he thought trayvon was a suspicious looking character could be interpreted as racial profiling, you cant say it wasnt and nobody can say it was.
Yes likely, precisely the law that got zimmerman off the hook.Stand your ground law would have protected trayvon too.
Unfortunately we do live in a world where you could be convicted of murder without good evidence.

 

[Zenith]

Much like the prosecution, you're entire argument relies around "Well he seems like a racist, murderous ass" instead of just an ass.

Martin's personal life is entirely irrelevant. The outcome of the trial is decided simply. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman intended to murder Martin. If no, then no conviction. It is the only logical course.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Much like the prosecution, you're entire argument relies around "Well he seems like a racist, murderous ass" instead of just an ass.

Martin's personal life is entirely irrelevant. The outcome of the trial is decided simply. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman intended to murder Martin. If no, then no conviction. It is the only logical course.

Where did I imply I believed George was racist?]I prefer to keep race out of it,I was just saying how some people could interpret racial profiling from the 911 call and that the media didnt portray trayvon as innocent kid and george as a racist.I dont believe zimmerman intentions were to harm trayvon at all, but theres a ton of people sitting in jail for murder thats not pre-meditated.

 

[niky]

If a random dude is staring at me at night, then I run a way and he follows me, im automatically thinking he's trying to harm me.I guess thats what it all boils down to.Rather you think its justified to take action if you believe your danger or hide and call police and hope they can get to you in time.

If you fear you're in danger and are unarmed, you don't turn around and start a fist-fight. You run.

From what came out in the Trial, Zimmerman was coming out of the car, was told not to, then was confronted by Martin, then took a big-ass ass-whupping, during which he shot the boy.

If the prosecution was smart, they'd have gone for manslaughter. But second degree? If I were of the mindset to kill someone, I wouldn't have waited till I got beat up before I shot him.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

If you fear you're in danger and are unarmed, you don't turn around and start a fist-fight. You run.

From what came out in the Trial, Zimmerman was coming out of the car, was told not to, then was confronted by Martin, then took a big-ass ass-whupping, during which he shot the boy.

If the prosecution was smart, they'd have gone for manslaughter. But second degree? If I were of the mindset to kill someone, I wouldn't have waited till I got beat up before I shot him.

Thats the thing that doesnt make sense that trayvon would attack him first.But since trayvon isnt here I guess we will have to take george word for it, and actually evidence shows George approached trayvon first considering his car was on the street and they where on the side walk ( not a traditional sidewalk but side walk between houses yards away from george car).Thats why I believe george attacked first and since I dont know what happened in the trial im not sure how that evidence didnt play a larger factor... and not to mention the amount of times george changed his story.
They went for man slaughter btw.
To show you how far away from the car he was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakGZgJxTi4

 

[McLaren]

Thats the thing that doesnt make sense that trayvon would attack him first.But since trayvon isnt here I guess we will have to take george word for it, and actually evidence shows George approached trayvon first considering his car was on the street and they where on the side walk ( not a traditional sidewalk but side walk between houses yards away from george car).Thats why I believe george attacked first and since I dont know what happened in the trial im not sure how that evidence didnt play a larger factor... and not to mention the amount of times george changed his story.
They went for man slaughter btw.
To show you how far away from the car he was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakGZgJxTi4

What doesn't make sense about someone following you, you losing him & then realizing you have the element of surprise? In this case, Martin was gone but decided to come back & try to bash Zimmerman's skull into the concrete after confronting him.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Justice!

This was nothing but a BS political case from the start! Good outcome. I heard the outcome while having dinner with the GF when the family at the table next to us blurted it out. They all cheered. I was happy about the outcome, but there was nothing to cheer about. A man's life will NEVER be the same and some stupid, punk-ass, gang-banga-wantabe is dead.

But at least justice prevailed.

 

[phillgt2002]

Justice!

This was nothing but a BS political case from the start! Good outcome. I heard the outcome while having dinner with the GF when the family at the table next to us blurted it out. They all cheered. I was happy about the outcome, but there was nothing to cheer about. A man's life will NEVER be the same and some stupid, punk-ass, gang-banga-wantabe is dead.

But at least justice prevailed.

All though I disagree with your thoughts of TM, I find it frustrating that people are cheering over this kind of stuff. It's basically fight with Team Martin and Team Zimmerman it's childish.

 

[Northstar]

Why didnt they use George mug shot in the media?

The two pictures I recall seeing the most in the media were George's mugshot and some picture of Trayvon from when he was like 12, often side by side for effect.

I mean they are trying to paint him as a good kid right?

I also recall hearing quite a bit about the hacked email as well, doesn't mean much considering people often have separate emails for things they don't want associated with their main account.

Did you actually watch any coverage before a few hours ago?

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

What doesn't make sense about someone following you, you losing him & then realizing you have the element of surprise? In this case, Martin was gone but decided to come back & try to bash Zimmerman's skull into the concrete after confronting him.

None of it makes sense, more than likely if you get away your gonna run away.I believe they both were in the wrong going by george story.But still to me george was in the wrong and initiated the entire situation the moment he jumped out the car and followed him and should be held accountable for everything that happened afterwards.

The two pictures I recall seeing the most in the media were George's mugshot and some picture of Trayvon from when he was like 12, often side by side for effect.
I also recall hearing quite a bit about the hacked email as well, doesn't mean much considering people often have separate emails for things they don't want associated with their main account.

Did you actually watch any coverage before a few hours ago?

Your right I read your original comment wrong because I actually believe the media tried to put a racial twist on this and I forget the actual picture they used for zimmerman was indeed his 2005 mugshot,but it went both ways, the media and the defense showed martin as a thug too.That was my original point, not that the media didnt show him as a thug lol
His facebook got hacked, there was nothing incriminating on that either... maybe he has another facebook for his evil gang banging persona? I dont see what how long ive been keeping up with case has to do with anything when everything is archived on the internet?

 

[Zenith]

But still to me george was in the wrong and initiated the entire situation the moment he jumped out the car and followed him and should be held accountable for everything that happened afterwards.

Obviously If you initiate contact with somebody and they start to beat you up it only makes sense to lay back and wait for death. You initiated contact so their actions are now your responsibility....

 

[Omnis]

Much like the prosecution, you're entire argument relies around "Well he seems like a racist, murderous ass" instead of just an ass.

Martin's personal life is entirely irrelevant. The outcome of the trial is decided simply. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman intended to murder Martin. If no, then no conviction. It is the only logical course.

Succinctly and accurately put.

Honestly, the following is all the news media needed to ever say:



This case and the circus around it are all news-media-fabricated.

I knew the prosecution jumped the shark when they started talking about Martin Luther King.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If you initiate contact with somebody and they start to beat you up it only makes sense to lay back and wait for death. You initiated contact so their actions are now your responsibility....

Look at that from the opposite angle: what was Martin thinking when Zimmerman approached him? Zimmerman's argument is that he saw Martin acting suspiciously, decided to follow him, got attacked when he confronted Martin, and shot him in self defence. Based on that, couldn't you make the argument that Martin was also acting in self-defence? He was out on his own, in the dark, being followed by a man who was convinced that he was up to no good, who then confronted him. What's to say that Martin didn't think Zimmerman was about to mug him, and so responded by attacking him? What law is there to say that you can fire a gun in self-defence, but you can't swing a punch? What do you do if you find yourself in a situation where you are in danger and you are completely unarmed?

 

[Zenith]

Your point about Martin being unaware of Zimmerman's intentions is very true. However, preemptive self defense by attacking somebody who might be about to mug you isn't defensive. Following somebody can be threatening behavior, but it is cannot be considered assault. The appropriate reaction for Martin would have been to prepare to react to an attack, defuse the situation, or flee.

I still believe that Zimmerman acted very inappropriately for the reasons you've outlined, bur consider his actions once the attack started to be self defense.

Edit: The prosecution seriously mentioned MLK? Yeesh.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And yet people suggest that if you're carrying a firearm, you can pre-emtpively shoot off a warning shot. If you're not carrying a firearm and believe someone is a threat to you, what are you supposed to do? What is the equivalent of firing a warning shot?

Zimmerman's actions might have been in self defence, but they were still unnecessary. He was explicitly advised not to follow Martin, and chose to ignore that instruction. He presented himself in a manner that appeared to be threatening enough to provoke an assault. He may not be guilty of murder, but he certainly bears responsibility for Martin's death. There were half a dozen points in the timeline leading up to the confrontation where Zimmerman could have chosen an alternative course of action an the shooting would have been avoided.

 

[Omnis]

Anyone that says anything about a warning shot is someone who has only seem guns in hollywood movies. They've never handled a gun in their lives or have had the responsibility of carrying one. You only use a firearm when you feel your life is in danger. Zimmerman only used his gun after his nose had been broken and he couldn't see, but heard his attacker going for his gun.

Trayvon could've told the guy to piss off or to leave him alone. He could have even struck Zimmerman in self defense, but you don't ground and pound a guy in self defense. You don't mount a guy, bash his head into the concrete, and then see his gun and say, "you gonna die". That's felony battery and threatening murder. He didn't run away, and he didn't give Zimmerman a chance to flee.

What was Zimmerman supposed to do?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What was Zimmerman supposed to do?

Listen to the advice from the 911 operator to leave Martin be.

 

[Omnis]

Listen to the advice from the 911 operator to leave Martin be.

He was walking back to his car after checking the street sign.

 

[Pupik]

Moral of the story: get off my lawn, even if it's not your lawn, play vigilante when told to back off, essentially start a fight, and invoke your Second Amendment rights when you're getting rightfully crowned for being a dick. I can't understand how anyone's thrilled with this verdict, since it hinges on 1% of the fatal outcome, and ignores 99% of the rationale.

Whether or not they're a bunch of losers is irrelevant.

Excuse me, I'm going to go bother the kids at the bus stop down the block from me. Don't worry, *they're* unarmed.

 

[Joey D]

Moral of the story: get off my lawn, even if it's not your lawn, play vigilante when told to back off, essentially start a fight, and invoke your Second Amendment rights when you're getting rightfully crowned for being a dick. I can't understand how anyone's thrilled with this verdict, since it hinges on 1% of the fatal outcome, and ignores 99% of the rationale.

I think you summed up my feelings pretty well.

It seems like there's a bunch of people saying it's a "win for gun rights" or that it's a "loss for civil rights", when in reality it wasn't anything to win or lose. A teenager is dead, Zimmerman's life is significantly destroyed, and both civil right and gun rights ended up with a set back. The only people who won in the case were the news network with ad revenue and ratings.

 

[MustangRyan]

I think you summed up my feelings pretty well.

It seems like there's a bunch of people saying it's a "win for gun rights" or that it's a "loss for civil rights", when in reality it wasn't anything to win or lose. A teenager is dead, Zimmerman's life is significantly destroyed, and both civil right and gun rights ended up with a set back. The only people who won in the case were the news network with ad revenue and ratings.

Don't forget the lawyers. The lawyers ALWAYS get paid. 👎

 

[hogger129]

You guys gotta be kidding me. He was on the neighborhood watch. That means it was his responsibility to keep an eye on the neighborhood. He had as much right to be there as Trayvon did and went back to his vehicle when told not to follow. Then Trayvon attacks him, and he shouldn't defend himself? What you guys been smoking?

The jury found him not guilty. Get over it. Self defense isn't a crime.

 

[Danoff]

Much like the prosecution, you're entire argument relies around "Well he seems like a racist, murderous ass" instead of just an ass.

Martin's personal life is entirely irrelevant. The outcome of the trial is decided simply. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman intended to murder Martin. If no, then no conviction. It is the only logical course.

Perfectly stated. [/thread]

Justice!

This was nothing but a BS political case from the start! Good outcome. I heard the outcome while having dinner with the GF when the family at the table next to us blurted it out. They all cheered. I was happy about the outcome, but there was nothing to cheer about. A man's life will NEVER be the same and some stupid, punk-ass, gang-banga-wantabe is dead.

But at least justice prevailed.

Maybe... or maybe not. Whether or not justice prevailed depends on whether or not Zimmerman was a murderous ass or just an ass. Evidence was insufficient to prove him a murderous ass, so he walks. That's the way our justice system should work. It errs on the side of letting OJ go. But just because we let OJ go, doesn't mean it was just that he walk free.

If Zimmerman was the murderous ass that many people think he was, then justice was not served. However, our legal system will still have functioned properly. We do not put people in jail for unproven accusations, regardless of what the person has, in truth, done, and what the person truly deserves.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Much like the prosecution, you're entire argument relies around "Well he seems like a racist, murderous ass" instead of just an ass.

Martin's personal life is entirely irrelevant. The outcome of the trial is decided simply. Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman intended to murder Martin. If no, then no conviction. It is the only logical course.

Martin's personal life was indeed relevant. If the state wished to call Zimmerman a liar based on a few minor details, why shouldn't Martin's personal life be under the same such scrutiny? Could it be that the most incriminating evidence that would do so, Martin's Cell Phone, was buried until trial time?

And if you doubt me, why was the IT guy that spoke out about it was fired by the office today for a made up reason.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Well even if Zimmerman is innocent in the eyes of the law, he's guilty to the public at large. I think he'll have to move from Florida.

 

[Dotini]

Begging your pardon, I've come late to the Martin/Zimmerman case.
A few elementary questions:

1) Was Martin shot and killed inside a gated community?
2) Did Martin pass through a gate?
3) Was Zimmerman employed or recognized as a security guard for the gated community?