- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Ultimate Driving Simulator, on MR Cars
- Thread starter LS Chiou
- 177 comments
- 13,967 views
This...
Is just as subjective and unhelpful as this...
This debate has been taken on by many others in many other threads, so this thread wasn't needed either. I've asked in a good portion of these threads to post tire choice and/or a video of a scenario that represents a huge inaccuracy in handling characteristics. No response. Yet, in all of these threads we get some book report on why these cars are completely wrong. Prove it, or accept the huge number of people that don't believe these cars are "broken" and don't want to listen to handling reports from someone that personally acknowledge they can't handle the cars. It's ok if there are cars you can't handle or aren't willing to take the time to master.
My kryptonite is the BTR. I can be perfectly comfortable sliding that car and hotlapping in CH or CM's. Then out of nowhere, boom, I'm into the wall due to incorrectable, snappy, lift-off oversteer. I'm sure plenty of people can hoon that thing and would be happy to tell me I'm not good at driving because of it. And I will happily accept that I just haven't mastered that car yet, and perhaps never will. The last thing I want to do when I simply cannot handle a virtual car is decide, " you know what, this car is wrong" and then use text to describe why it's wrong.
- 261
- New Zealand
- T4MAK1NGHINI
After reading all this post about MR car, I'm thinking to buy one IRL... I'm driving a boring FF car at the moment
that is precisely why i never drive FF in this game - i use one to commute IRL. why should i drive it when i can drive mclaren f1? i love oversteering cars but when i forced myself to do that scirocco TT event i became a better driver after that because my pedal work got refined.
i cannot imagine driving any car with big rear weight balance without using left foot brake. i tend to leave some throttle while im fully braking so not to lock up rear wheels, or when cornering near the grip edge, lifting off throttle would be suicide id just tap a brake with my left foot to make the corner. i respect people who drives manual Porsche on track where you need to take your right foot off the throttle and brake with it while left foot is busy pushing clutch. IRL they tend to fit much larger rear tyres than this game would allow you so driving it wouldnt be as "peaky" i guess. yes, you can do anything in real life - this game wont let you.lol
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
Never, not once, have I said anyone's opinion who's driven in real life is null and void and they must shut up and bow down.
If you actually read my posts, and not just look for an excuse to flame me, you would see that I argue that MR cars are not broken just because they're difficult to drive. I never said they were 100% accurate, because none of the cars in GT are 100% accurate.
Reported.
- 448
- Santa Cruz, CA
- Reikeimaru08
Sure it's intimidating to drive MR cars in this. I own an FR so I have no idea how to drive them, so I treated my newly bought MR-S like an FR. It bit me hard. It got frustrating and I was getting angry, but it's all doable. After reading up on this on the people who really own MR cars and reading their techniques, they all work if you just sit down and experiment with it.
Hell I plan on buying an MR-S in real life sooner than later and I was terrified thinking I'm buying a deathtrap, even if I drive at normal speeds. But I dunno now, I'm starting to see why everyone loves MR's, they're hard but they're fun once you get the hang of it! I still crash a lot in the MR-S but hopefully I'll be ready for one irl by the time it comes.
Even though I've met a guy with an MR-S irl and he said it wasn't as snappy irl and it may be silly to use a game as a reference =P
Point is, it's all doable, even if it's intimidating to drive. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not realistic.
Hell I plan on buying an MR-S in real life sooner than later and I was terrified thinking I'm buying a deathtrap, even if I drive at normal speeds. But I dunno now, I'm starting to see why everyone loves MR's, they're hard but they're fun once you get the hang of it! I still crash a lot in the MR-S but hopefully I'll be ready for one irl by the time it comes.
Even though I've met a guy with an MR-S irl and he said it wasn't as snappy irl and it may be silly to use a game as a reference =P
Point is, it's all doable, even if it's intimidating to drive. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not realistic.
- 191
- plinsavi or GTP_plinsavi
See? A MR car can be understeering. But I have yet to find one in GT6. Well, maybe the MP4-12C, but the understeer was very mild and it got me confident to push the car more and I got better lap times because of this.
I don't think the handling of the whole lot of MR cars are wrong, but some of them must be. I'm certain that most manufacturers tune their cars to understeer a little to be safer on the hands of less experienced drivers. But that's not what I see in GT6.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 1,460
- England
This.
When I watched it I thought "looks like comfort hards or mediums", which, as you say, would probably be similar to top end street rubber 2 decades ago.
I was surprised how much he turned the wheel in corner 2!
Also note at ~3:00 he rubs his hands on his legs.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets sweaty palms whilst driving on the edge like that.
NixxxoN
(Banned)
- 2,712
- Barcelona
Those were stock tyres because he was doing official Honda testing of the stock car for future improvements. Probably the equivalent of Sports hard. I dont think Honda would've put cheap/bad tyres on that car.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 261
- New Zealand
- T4MAK1NGHINI
you gota apply different driving style on MRs. i had to unlearn all the habits n skills i learnt with FF in all those years i driven on road and on track IRL, although it proven effective driving FF but just wasnt suited to drive anything else. i changed my grip, the way i operate steering wheel, more aggressive with throttle etc i was effectively reborn as a different driver completely. but to get that extra tenth to break into top 100 i needed that FF driving pedal skill that i now had to re-learn.
you see, oversteering characteristic is a virtue in this game, not a drawback. like Porsche, theres no point adding 100kg ballast at the front to make it easy to drive, thats un-Porsche'ing it, loses all the character of the vehicle. every FF touring car teams strive to get that extra car rotation to go faster than the other car. MRs, you already have it, plenty of it so use it to your advantage.
you see, oversteering characteristic is a virtue in this game, not a drawback. like Porsche, theres no point adding 100kg ballast at the front to make it easy to drive, thats un-Porsche'ing it, loses all the character of the vehicle. every FF touring car teams strive to get that extra car rotation to go faster than the other car. MRs, you already have it, plenty of it so use it to your advantage.
- 219
- New Jersey
- NikoTheHammer
With all due respect, has anyone that has a serious grievance with GT6's MR cars, actually driven an MR car in real life? AND at the same level of aggression that you would in GT6? I drive a Lincoln LS in real life - a 280hp, FR luxury/sport sedan with 50/50 weight distribution, so I'll accept that it's a completely different animal - but even that car can get tempermental if I try to accelerate or brake too abruptly without the wheels pointed straight ahead.
I don't want to pull rank either, but I do think that driving skill has something to do with it. The only cars I have had any trouble with are the old school Italian supercars (Stratos, Dino, 512BB, etc.), with their 40 year old braking and suspension technology. Even then, I was able to correct them with a few reasonable suspension tweaks that made sense, at least to me.
Is there something off in GT6's physics engine that could be causing these cars to be a little snappier than they should be? That's absolutely a possibility, I don't know how we could ever confirm for sure.
But they're far from being "broken undrivable POSs" like so many are quick to claim.
I don't want to pull rank either, but I do think that driving skill has something to do with it. The only cars I have had any trouble with are the old school Italian supercars (Stratos, Dino, 512BB, etc.), with their 40 year old braking and suspension technology. Even then, I was able to correct them with a few reasonable suspension tweaks that made sense, at least to me.
Is there something off in GT6's physics engine that could be causing these cars to be a little snappier than they should be? That's absolutely a possibility, I don't know how we could ever confirm for sure.
But they're far from being "broken undrivable POSs" like so many are quick to claim.
- 6,425
- KCCO
I mentioned this one time in a thread similar to this dealing with mainly the R8 LMS, but I have driven an R8 (4.2 V8). Although no where near the Bilstein and such not, it is relatively close to the GT3. However, i should say that i drove it in Audi's experience program (or whatever it is called) where you can drive the RS5, TTRS, and the R8 on a track near you. I live in Atlanta so the track it was hosted at was Road Atlanta. Although the track isn't in GT, i have information to share about an MR.
Like others have mentioned, you don't ever want to lift in a knee-jerk reaction. Otherwise, you will get too much turn in and spin, like we do in the game. Hitting the power is a bit of a no-no as well when in the corner, as it will handle like an R8 LMS in the game. However, I have barely noticed it in GT6 but they seem to have implemented the fish tail effect where i can keep the wheel perfectly straight, and the back swings out and then comes under controller after 20 yards or so (note, it wont work in all MR cars, but in my case it did, esp on a track right after PLM).
However, my information shouldn't be taken too much for consideration. I only did three laps with the car, one out lap, one hot lap, and the in lap because the car literally scared me to death. I learned what I and others have explained above, not to lift, punch, or try to turn in but use more acceleration rather. I chose after that to drive the RS5 because I thought it was a bit more suited for me, and I felt that I could actually drive it really hard for a good 15 minutes (or 3-4 laps).
Overall with the characteristics of the R8 LMS, I have two opinions.
1. It is a bit difficult even with a "decent" tune to keep up to cars such as a Z06, or even the Schulze. You cant really take hard turns with apex's more than 45* balls to the wall, but you cant take them too slow either. You just have to keep the tires spinning (rolling) without the LSD actually coming into mess everything up. If you go too fast, the rear wheel on the outside seems to spin way too fast to flip you out, and if you go too slow, the inside wheels seem to stop or slow down. There is that 49-2-49 chance you actually hit that perfect speed every time starting out. I mean, it's not like it's our career to drive these things because they are paid to win...
2. Once you feel as if the LSD is the problem, if you don't race in the cockpit view, your going to want to after this. I rarely ever drive anything but the roof view, however one day I wanted to drive the cockpit in the R8 LMS. I noticed going into the first hairpin at Silverstone (sorry, not familiar yet with the track turn names) that my wheel turns to the left a lot more than some of the other cars do at the same speed. I tried it with a BMW GT2 and I noticed that (at least the hands) dont go that far to the left as the R8 does. I then thought, could the deadzone for this car just be non-existant, or is there not a lock on the steering radius causing this? Im not sure exactly as to the actual steering deadzones of the R8, but I feel as if that is the problem with the car. Any other car I can take balls to the walls and go into a turn full left, and not have a problem, (and it being an MR) and I cant replicate it with an R8. Im not an expert, but those are my thoughts of the car...
- 177
- RSnider
My E36 M3 used to do the same thing until I replaced the hilariously worn out rear trailing arm bushings.There are some other factors at play IRL. The SW20 MR2's for example actually have rear suspension that changes geometry depending on weight transfer. Speaking from direct experience from owning one over the last 14 months, it is pretty intense.
Accelerating through/out of a corner we have an advantage over most FR vehicles for obvious reasons, and it is quite stable. Holding throttle through a corner is also stable and uneventful. But oh lord, if you decide to lift off that throttle anywhere near the edge of grip, you are now dealing with a rear track that just went from toe-in, to pant-soiling toe-out.
That change forces the rear end to come around, which is actually desirable in low-speed corners in race situations, and toyota designed it like this on purpose (though, I'm not really sure for whom). If you lift throttle quickly, you better be ready -anticipating the snapping change and reacting like Colin McRae to catch it. Over time and with practice though, you can learn to control your foot when lifting off that throttle, performing the lift more slowly and smoothly.
I'm not sure if most MR cars actually incorporate such drastic changes in suspension geometry, though. And I'm pretty confident that Gran Turismo does not program such intricate (but striking) effects into the physics.. yet. For high-speed, large-radius turns which most supercars are intended to tackle, this 'changing' effect would likely do you no good. I believe that most MR supercars have some natural lift-off oversteer, but not snap oversteer. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, as most of my re.. re.. study has been on the little duece..
- 368
- Taiwan
Thanks for all your inputs.
I'd like to clarify one thing -- I didn't say GT6's physics is a failure because some of the cars are difficult to drive. (If I did, that's incorrect.) Some of the 'complains' may head to that direction, but that's not my intention.
To be fair, I'd say it's mostly good, and probably has some flaws here and there. Eventually, I think the difficulties --no matter it's realistic or bugs-- stir our passion to challenge them.
First I'd like to know if they are realistic. For this, some very good points (first hand experiences IRL) have already been brought up, I appreciate a lot. (BTW, I think NSX is one of the most nicely balanced and user friendly MR cars, which you can push at will. Despite it's driven by Senna so spiritually, I feel it's too nice to explore in GTs. I like the car very much. Funny I always spend my time on other 'bad' cars, LOL... )
Then I'd like to know more about the reasons why those 'characterful' cars act like that, but this could be a real problem. Maybe too complex, or hard to prove.
Good thing is, without knowing why, we still can find ways to overcome their 'ill-behavior', at least to some extent. Say, I kept on fighting with BTR last night. (I hope this is not too OT, since the problem is the same.)
Ride height adjustment doesn't work for me on this car. Then I spent some time trying to find the sweet spot of the LSD's setting, but it seemed not much can be gained here. It works to a degree, but not a total cure. With RH, 40-ish of them seem to saturate the effectiveness. More doen't give further help. And that's already very high, into unrealistic I'm afraid. (Interestingly, I remember seeing a car with a number of 80 in its stock LSD. Forget which car... )
Finally, I put some weight in front. The change is more than significant. 50kg starts to make an obvious change. I've also tried up to 100. Eventually I settle on 75, which turns the f/r distribution to 45:55 IIRC. This is a dilemma. I surely want to keep it as what it is, but I want even more to drive it! See it this way, with full tank of fuel and a little but solid luggage in front, 75kg shouldn't be too far off. (Funny, I use ballast a lot in those nose-heavy FF and FR. Why not in MR or RR? So simple and so effective!)
The changes are: more weighty steering feel, much more effective counter steering when needed, much more stable at weight transfer - lift off mid corner or trail braking. It's still oversteering and turning with throttle/brake in general, but the snappy dramas are largely reduced. It can be pushed much harder than before.
By this, I'm confident enough to take it to the race. With high speed turbo and RH (slightly lower than 600 pp as I remember), it wins in the 15 min Ascari. No TCS and ABS is used. (up to 10:10 brake bias can be used with stock brake, no lockups whatsoever).
OK, it's not a perfectly clean race, I cut the first chicane a bit, and spun out of track a few times. I even hit the tree (or wall?) at the inside of final curve and made it spin like a top. Crossed the line, it wasn't pretty, with wrinkled surface and dirty spots all over the place. And the 2nd car was only 0.5 sec behind (or the likes). However, I'm so amused, because I couldn't finish a lap of free running in the short Brands Hatch only days ago. It's one of the most satisfying moment in this game. Better than those mighty X-whatever cars have given me, mind you.
Then I took it to the Rainy Spa, with same setting and no aids, but intermedium tire. Here I failed to catch it well enough to have 3 clean laps. On this slippery surface, the spin-offs are more violent and embarrassing. So it takes longer to pull it back on track, at that time those high power opponents are long gone. Its peaky power band doesn't help. I've tried several times, with only 5th or 6th finish at best. Nevertheless, I believe this can be done, just not necessarily by me. Maybe I'll try more in some better conditions, maybe...
Next, I'll take it to the dirt and snow.
I'd like to clarify one thing -- I didn't say GT6's physics is a failure because some of the cars are difficult to drive. (If I did, that's incorrect.) Some of the 'complains' may head to that direction, but that's not my intention.
To be fair, I'd say it's mostly good, and probably has some flaws here and there. Eventually, I think the difficulties --no matter it's realistic or bugs-- stir our passion to challenge them.
First I'd like to know if they are realistic. For this, some very good points (first hand experiences IRL) have already been brought up, I appreciate a lot. (BTW, I think NSX is one of the most nicely balanced and user friendly MR cars, which you can push at will. Despite it's driven by Senna so spiritually, I feel it's too nice to explore in GTs. I like the car very much. Funny I always spend my time on other 'bad' cars, LOL... )
Then I'd like to know more about the reasons why those 'characterful' cars act like that, but this could be a real problem. Maybe too complex, or hard to prove.
Good thing is, without knowing why, we still can find ways to overcome their 'ill-behavior', at least to some extent. Say, I kept on fighting with BTR last night. (I hope this is not too OT, since the problem is the same.)
Ride height adjustment doesn't work for me on this car. Then I spent some time trying to find the sweet spot of the LSD's setting, but it seemed not much can be gained here. It works to a degree, but not a total cure. With RH, 40-ish of them seem to saturate the effectiveness. More doen't give further help. And that's already very high, into unrealistic I'm afraid. (Interestingly, I remember seeing a car with a number of 80 in its stock LSD. Forget which car... )
Finally, I put some weight in front. The change is more than significant. 50kg starts to make an obvious change. I've also tried up to 100. Eventually I settle on 75, which turns the f/r distribution to 45:55 IIRC. This is a dilemma. I surely want to keep it as what it is, but I want even more to drive it! See it this way, with full tank of fuel and a little but solid luggage in front, 75kg shouldn't be too far off. (Funny, I use ballast a lot in those nose-heavy FF and FR. Why not in MR or RR? So simple and so effective!)
The changes are: more weighty steering feel, much more effective counter steering when needed, much more stable at weight transfer - lift off mid corner or trail braking. It's still oversteering and turning with throttle/brake in general, but the snappy dramas are largely reduced. It can be pushed much harder than before.
By this, I'm confident enough to take it to the race. With high speed turbo and RH (slightly lower than 600 pp as I remember), it wins in the 15 min Ascari. No TCS and ABS is used. (up to 10:10 brake bias can be used with stock brake, no lockups whatsoever).
OK, it's not a perfectly clean race, I cut the first chicane a bit, and spun out of track a few times. I even hit the tree (or wall?) at the inside of final curve and made it spin like a top. Crossed the line, it wasn't pretty, with wrinkled surface and dirty spots all over the place. And the 2nd car was only 0.5 sec behind (or the likes). However, I'm so amused, because I couldn't finish a lap of free running in the short Brands Hatch only days ago. It's one of the most satisfying moment in this game. Better than those mighty X-whatever cars have given me, mind you.
Then I took it to the Rainy Spa, with same setting and no aids, but intermedium tire. Here I failed to catch it well enough to have 3 clean laps. On this slippery surface, the spin-offs are more violent and embarrassing. So it takes longer to pull it back on track, at that time those high power opponents are long gone. Its peaky power band doesn't help. I've tried several times, with only 5th or 6th finish at best. Nevertheless, I believe this can be done, just not necessarily by me. Maybe I'll try more in some better conditions, maybe...
Next, I'll take it to the dirt and snow.
- 12
- Berlin
Howdy to anyone! That's my first post, but I read along for some weeks now ...
This 100%.
I never drove a sports or race car anywhere near the limit. So I can not tell if the physics in GT6 are perfect or broken, but I like the MR/RR cars the way they are. I would assume that driving a race car is rather difficult and quite a lot of cars in GT6 feel really easy to drive (of course without any driving aids including ABS and on CS/SH). For example the Audi sport quattro Rally Car (one of my personal favorites). This car might be a blast but it just feels to easy to tame even on challenging tracks.
When I bought the Lancia Stratos and drove the first lap on Silverstone, I tought this car is just great - a beast, but great. In the second lap I spun several times, but anyway it was a fun ride. After a few tries I felt comfortable driving on this track. You have to spent time with MR cars. You don't take them on the Ring the first time and drive a clean lap. You have to work on your skills and that's rewarding. Every time I win a race in such a car I feel like I really earned it.
Of course there are situations when the car spins out and I think: "what the hell?" But the more time I spent in this cars, the more I understand what I did wrong and what I can do to prevent such situations. It is not just hitting the brake, hitting the trottle. It is a real balance act in some corners. It is difficult and that is why it feels right to me. But maybe it is completely wrong.
But one thing is for sure: there is absolutly nothing we can do about it. And PD will only change it, when they feel it is not the way they want it to be.
This 100%.
I never drove a sports or race car anywhere near the limit. So I can not tell if the physics in GT6 are perfect or broken, but I like the MR/RR cars the way they are. I would assume that driving a race car is rather difficult and quite a lot of cars in GT6 feel really easy to drive (of course without any driving aids including ABS and on CS/SH). For example the Audi sport quattro Rally Car (one of my personal favorites). This car might be a blast but it just feels to easy to tame even on challenging tracks.
When I bought the Lancia Stratos and drove the first lap on Silverstone, I tought this car is just great - a beast, but great. In the second lap I spun several times, but anyway it was a fun ride. After a few tries I felt comfortable driving on this track. You have to spent time with MR cars. You don't take them on the Ring the first time and drive a clean lap. You have to work on your skills and that's rewarding. Every time I win a race in such a car I feel like I really earned it.
Of course there are situations when the car spins out and I think: "what the hell?" But the more time I spent in this cars, the more I understand what I did wrong and what I can do to prevent such situations. It is not just hitting the brake, hitting the trottle. It is a real balance act in some corners. It is difficult and that is why it feels right to me. But maybe it is completely wrong.
But one thing is for sure: there is absolutly nothing we can do about it. And PD will only change it, when they feel it is not the way they want it to be.
- 1,137
Edit: Nvm... fixed it
Amazing vid, eventhough I would have prefered to hear the engine sound.
Tbh it's not some random test driver or car reviewer driving... Its Senna himself. Maybe its just his driving style? I don't know There are videos of his and Prosts onboard laps of their respective qualifiyng lap in the 1990 Jerez race and the difference between them is night and day.
Amazing vid, eventhough I would have prefered to hear the engine sound.
Tbh it's not some random test driver or car reviewer driving... Its Senna himself. Maybe its just his driving style? I don't know
There are videos of his and Prosts onboard laps of their respective qualifiyng lap in the 1990 Jerez race and the difference between them is night and day.
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
15" rims with tire technology from 20 years ago.
- 559
- Southampton Hants UK
- magicayrton
- 106
If it's shaved, yes - or if it's still relatively new. If it, however, has gone through enough heat cycles over the course of going through its tread, the rubber compound becomes harder and drastically reduces in grip.
Not that any of this is simulated in GT6.
research
Premium
- 847
- Ohio
- ecko_driver81
Ok so when you say:
You actually mean the suspensions changing geometry in general, not changing to toe out like the mr2. Right? The way you worded your first response could confuse most people into thinking that geometry change to toe out is normal. And now we've had multiple replies/questions between us to clear it up. BMW guys.... I swear...
(elbow to rib)
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- 42
- Spain
- Ardi_beltZ
the R8s are AWD
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
And also mid engine layout and most of the power sent to the rear wheels
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
@LS Chiou, RUF CTR (YB) and BTR are just fun cars, they just need special care on driving 
MR cars need also special care when driving more than 70kmh, or cornering above 30kmh
(left on uploading YT, There is quick tour around Brands Hatch GP with BTR, some easy practice laps recorded on online race mode, no helps, no abs, real grip, tyre wear normal, G27 wheel, including some fails caused learning on track+car combo)
MR cars need also special care when driving more than 70kmh, or cornering above 30kmh
(left on uploading YT, There is quick tour around Brands Hatch GP with BTR, some easy practice laps recorded on online race mode, no helps, no abs, real grip, tyre wear normal, G27 wheel, including some fails caused learning on track+car combo)
research
Premium
- 847
- Ohio
- ecko_driver81
I have a question for all of the guys who are really having trouble with the sudden snap-oversteers of some MR cars, including @BWX ..
Does the issue seem to mostly happen with Racing Tires? Something I've recently learned is that IRL, Racing compound tires have a much higher grip limit (obviously), but once you exeed it, it goes instantly. This is in pretty stark contrast to all road tires (all comfort and sports in GT6) where the grip limit is quite a bit lower, but the threshold is MUCH more forgiving -meaning that mere mortals can play with the limits without flying off the track, ass-first.
Check this video for a decent idea of what I mean:
I also remember hearing that one of the improvements of GT6 concerned this exact difference in Racing vs Road tires. I will have to search GTP for the accurate info, but I definitely got excited when I read it, because it was one of the improvements that I asked for (whined about) during the GT5 days..
Please don't take offense, as none is implied. I am only asking this question because I never use Racing Tires, but this may be a part of the new GT6 issue concerning physics..
Does the issue seem to mostly happen with Racing Tires? Something I've recently learned is that IRL, Racing compound tires have a much higher grip limit (obviously), but once you exeed it, it goes instantly. This is in pretty stark contrast to all road tires (all comfort and sports in GT6) where the grip limit is quite a bit lower, but the threshold is MUCH more forgiving -meaning that mere mortals can play with the limits without flying off the track, ass-first.
Check this video for a decent idea of what I mean:
I also remember hearing that one of the improvements of GT6 concerned this exact difference in Racing vs Road tires. I will have to search GTP for the accurate info, but I definitely got excited when I read it, because it was one of the improvements that I asked for (whined about) during the GT5 days..
Please don't take offense, as none is implied. I am only asking this question because I never use Racing Tires, but this may be a part of the new GT6 issue concerning physics..
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