Un-official GTPlanet BBC Topgear UK ThreadTV

[orimarc]

Wait, there was a Top Gear episode yesterday? Sorry, I was busy watching a tribute to Senna...wait, that was FROM the TG episode?

I need a new word for the level of emotion that gave me. I was still wearing a diaper when Senna died and I got nostalgic.

 

[Touring Mars]

The tribute to Senna was superb, and the idea of having Lewis Hamilton drive Senna's car was great. I must admit, I had a tear in my eye by the end of that episode. Top Gear at its very best - which, I am sad to say, is a rare thing these days...

 

[McLaren]

Great episode.

Bit surprised there was no talk of Senna's contribution to the Honda NSX & how the Type-R essentially came from his feedback.

 

[Conquerer]

Best episode of Top Gear I've seen. Didn't care that much for the Touareg bit but the rest was great. Nice to see the Supersport at the top of the lap chart, Cruise and Diaz interview was one of the bests and Tom nearly flipping was amazing. Then the Senna documentary clip topped it off, one of the best tributes of Senna I've seen, for sure. I was 5 years old when he died but I started watching a lot of footage and races of Senna before the 10th anniversary of his death and he really caught my attention.

From everything I've seen, no one else stands out as well as Senna did, on and off the race track. He had probably the most interesting and spectacular career/life of any racing driver. Furthermore it's very hard to say anyone else had as much raw talent as Senna did. Perhaps you could possibly throw Clark into that mix, but even drivers like Prost and Schumacher, while they absolutely made the most of their careers and are among the greatest of all time, I don't think they were quite on the level Senna was in terms of pure talent and ability.

 

[1800SSS]

more cars less hollywood coke heads please

 

[Mark T]

more cars less hollywood coke heads please

If they're putting out laps like that then I welcome them with open arms.

 

[boiltheocean]

If they're putting out laps like that then I welcome them with open arms.

I'd still welcome Cameron Diaz with open arms if she took 3 days to do a lap.

 

[mynameissport]

What a contrast we had from two episodes in this series. We had one poor episode and one of the best TG episodes for a long while.

Episode 4 the Motorhomes Challenge in short I admit was the worse episode of the series it was too predictable, not funny, a bit long and boring in short. It reminded me of a poor Series 13 episode all over again.

Compared to episode 5 I must admit it is the best episode of the series 15 and one of the best episodes in a long while, the problem with Series 12-14 there wasn't one single episode that stood out, this series has finally has one.

The VW Tourag Vs snowmobile race was good and made it into a race but more could have been done to make it into an epic race like they have done in the past.

The Bugatti SS was a good piece but could have had an interview with the test driver on breaking the world speed record. However, kudos to the Stig putting it out on the test track and making the car the fastest round the track.

Cruise and Diaz interviews were actually quite interesting and quite humorous; I do say if the both of them were a little bit tidier in their laps I think they could have been much faster. I see if someone keeps it clean and tidy with a little speed we could see the lap times could break the 1:43 barrier.

But the best was saved to last, that is right the Aytron Senna piece. I am glad they kept it professional and right to the point giving a good tribute to the character. I agree with some of the points raised in the piece and that is why he is my favourite F1 driver. Clarkson does really good interviews and was serious and professional so I don't know why Clarkson can do this in Top Gear a few more times in a series. I would like to see a quick piece about the Honda NSX-R and his contribution to the car as his feedback made the road car. But seeing the McLaren MP4/4 round Silverstone just was good to see and why 80s F1 are potentially better compared to the present era.

Overall it was one of the best episodes for a long time that is now rarely seen on Top Gear these days. I just hope Top Gear do more of these short documentaries in the future on good content and not mucking around.

In terms of ratings according to the Guardian Online it says it averaged around 5.8 million with a peak of 6.6 million probably because of the Indycar was on around the same time and other circumstances. But that is still a little low compared to what Top Gear used to pull around 6.5-7 million average per episode sometime back.

LINK SOURCE

Next weeks episode the roadster challenge I think will not beat this episode and it depends on the angle how they approach it. If its like episode 2 then it will be fine however if it is like episode 4 the motorhome challenge then I feel it will be another slight poor episode. At least we get the Ferrari 458 on the track though.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

Simply brilliant. One of the best episodes I've seen.

 

[MilkMan]

I agree with some of the points raised in the piece and that is why he is my favourite F1 driver.

His driving style sure was spectacular, but why does everyone worship a driver who crashes with someone else on purpose just to win? in my opinion he should have been suspended for that...

 

[homeforsummer]

His driving style sure was spectacular, but why does everyone worship a driver who crashes with someone else on purpose just to win? in my opinion he should have been suspended for that...

His talent far outweighed the bad things he did. No different from Schumacher. Can't say I was too impressed when Schuey ran Hill off the road in Adelaide back in '94, but you have to judge someone on their career as a whole and for me, something like Senna's first lap at Donington that the TG documentary reminded us of far outweighs him knocking Prost off the road.

Incidentally, it's probably also why TG didn't mention the NSX. It's not really a big part of "the man", again no more so than Schumacher having a hand in developing the Ferrari F430 is to his career.

I am surprised they didn't mention Senna punching Eddie Irvine in 1993 though Somewhere in my collection of old Autosport magazines I have the full transcript of the event, makes for great reading!

 

[RandomUsername]

Episode 5 was one of the best i've seen, Season 15 has been very good 👍
I'm looking forward to the "old British roadsters"(according to Wikipedia) challenge in episode 6

 

[analog]

His driving style sure was spectacular, but why does everyone worship a driver who crashes with someone else on purpose just to win? in my opinion he should have been suspended for that...

Why focus on this aspect alone when the point of this whole tribute and the fact this footage was also shown was to create a complete picture of both Senna as a driver and a human being which ofcourse included unpleasant aspects as well ( like any human being )?

It was balanced out for me at least by the other footage shown of him stopping his own race to care for another driver ( not even a teammate ) who's had a terrible accident ( can't really see Schumacher, or most drivers today, doing that frankly ).

And the fact he crashed deliberately into Alain Prost ( and all the other rivalry between them ) didn't prevent Alain Prost to be present at his funeral which says something about Senna I guess ( and Prost ofcourse ).

 

[Conquerer]

His driving style sure was spectacular, but why does everyone worship a driver who crashes with someone else on purpose just to win? in my opinion he should have been suspended for that...

That incident in 1990 is always overblown. It's not a simple incident where Senna was just thinking, "Hey, if I take out Prost I win the championship. Let's do it." There were many other factors involved. This may be a long post but if that's really your thinking (that he "crashes with someone else on purpose to win") then you really need to learn the actual truth and entirety of the incident.

Firstly, in 1989, Prost crashed into Senna at the chicane to win the championship. Why doesn't he get the same treatment Senna did for 1990? It was a slower speed incident and towards the end of the race but it's really the same sort of thing. Prost turned in way too early (shown in onboard and heli cam) and crashed into Senna and then immediately got out of the car as if his job was done, knowing he'd won the championship.

However, Senna kept going, replaced his front wing, and regained first place by passing Nannini at the exact same chicane in the same way he was attempting to pass Prost, and won the race, only to be disqualified for cutting the chicane after the incident. Later brought up in a driver's meeting at Suzuka the following year, a majority of drivers (if not all) voiced their agreement with Piquet saying it's dangerous to turn around and go the wrong way to get back onto the course instead of cutting the chicane, and it was decided that cutting the chicane was the right thing to do (yet Senna was DQ'd for doing that the year before).

Then we go to 1990. Pole position was on the right side of the grid at Suzuka in these days and 2nd position had the advantage of being on the left side where all the grip is (it's also a positional advantage going into First Curve from the outside). Before qualifying, Senna and Prost agreed that pole position should be on the left and it was discussed with the stewards and they agreed, saying it would be changed. Senna then won the pole, Prost 2nd. However, after qualifying the FIA president Jean-Marie Balestre ordered the stewards not to change anything and pole position would stay on the right.

This is the point where Senna said to himself, as he later stated in the press conference in 1991 after the Suzuka race, that no matter what happened at the start, he would go for it in the first corner.

"OK, whatever happens, I'm going to get into the first corner first — I'm not prepared to let the guy (Alain Prost) turn into that corner before me. If I'm near enough to him, he can't turn in front of me — he just has to let me through." I didn't care if we crashed; I went for it. And he took a chance, turned in, and we crashed. It was building up, it was inevitable. It had to happen."

He had the pole position so he was going to make sure that he was going to be first into the corner, and that if Prost was there, it didn't matter and he would still go for it. That's exactly what he did. He went for the gap and Prost closed him out. He turned right into the corner and Prost came together with him and they went off.

This is something that was also somewhat in line with Senna's driving style, as Brundle talked about in the Top Gear piece and as he always does when talking about Senna. He would put drivers in a situation where they could have an accident and it would be up to the other driver to let that happen or not. Senna took a risk and went down the inside and left it up to Prost to let an accident happen or not. Senna didn't crash into Prost but dove on the inside and Prost crashed into him.

I'm not saying Senna is free of blame but it's not as simple as him driving Prost off the road. He went for the gap to get into the corner first and had Prost backed off it wouldn't have happened. I'm not saying it was Prost's fault either, just that he was the one who actually caused the crash. Senna was looking for a gap that was risky but given everything that had happened before, including Prost taking him out in 1989 and the qualifying debacle before this race, why not go for it? Senna famously said this about the incident:

"If you get ****ed every time you try to do your job cleanly, within the system, what do you do? Stand back, and say thank you? No way. You should fight for what you think is right. If pole had been on the left, I'd have made it to the first corner in the lead, no problem. That was a bad decision to keep pole on the right, and it was influenced by Balestre. And the result was what happened in the first corner. I contributed to it, but it was not my responsibility"

At the same time, it was a very bittersweet opportunity for Senna. In 1989 Prost cut Senna off and crashed into him at the chicane to win the championship. In 1990 Senna gave him the same opportunity, except the tables were turned and Senna would win the championship this time. It was almost as if it were revenge. It's like he's thinking, "Last time he cut me off, crashed into me and won the championship. I'm going to put him in the same situation here. He can either let me through this time (which he didn't do in 1989) or he can crash into me. It's all up to him." Prost decided to go for it like he did in 1989 and they crashed.

It was unfair by Senna in 1990 just like it was unfair by Prost in 1989. Although you could even add the qualifying debacle to Senna's reasoning whereas Prost's was just to stop him from taking the lead, having learned from 1988 where Senna passed him and won the championship. But either way, they each had the upper hand in either year and they both deserve the same treatment for what they did in these two years. What Senna did in 1990 was no worse than what Prost did in 1989.

 

[Alex.]

What I find amazing is they set the production car speed record twice, power lap record, #1 and 2 Star in a reasonable priced car records, and put in a 15 minute Ayrton Senna video....in one episode. Mind blowing.

 

[Blitz187]

Everyone has pretty said everything.... All I want to add is that those images of Senna blasting over Monaco with the Johnny Player Special just made my jaw drop.... That man knew what constantly driving at the edge was.... All I can say is WOW...

 

[Dijital Majik]

I am surprised they didn't mention Senna punching Eddie Irvine in 1993 though Somewhere in my collection of old Autosport magazines I have the full transcript of the event, makes for great reading!

Irvine in the Jordan, so familiar with the track, was engaged in an almighty battle with a disappointing Damon Hill in the Williams for 6th place. Senna in his McLaren was romping away to an emphatic victory came up to lap both of them. He managed to get by Irvine, but was caught behind Hill. The Ulsterman, taking no prisoners, decided to then make a move back inside the McLaren going into the Degner curves, in order to launch another attack upon Hill in the Williams.

The Brazilian champion was, of course, less than impressed. Meanwhile Irvine was all smug celebrating his eventual 6th place after the race. Rumours have it that as a joke Gerhard Berger told Senna that Irvine had been mouthing off about him. At any rate, what we know for certain is that Senna soon paid Irvine a visit and, after a lengthy discussion, delivered a fairly tasty left hook. Upon arriving in Australia for the final race of the year, Senna was tight-lipped on the incident, but Irvine, who's never tight-lipped about anything, dismissed it simply as a disagreement in which Senna made his point of view fairly clear!

Here is a transcript of the argument between the two from Ayrton-Senna.com :

The scene: Eddie Irvine is sitting at a table in the Jordan cabin. Jordan's commercial manager, Rubens Barichello and several other people, mostly Team members, are also present. Suzuka was Irvine's first ever F1 race and everyone is watching a re-run of the Senna-Hill-Irvine incident.

Suddenly the door opens and in walks Ayrton Senna accompanied by Norman Howell, director of communications for McLaren and Giorgio Ascanelli, Senna's engineer.

Senna is looking for Irvine, but either he doesn't see him or he doesn't recognise him. Eddie Irvine raises his hand and Senna walks over to him ...

Irvine : Here!

Senna : What the **** do you think you were doing?

Irvine : I was racing!

Senna : You were racing? Do you know the rule that you're supposed to let the leaders come by when you're a back marker?

Irvine : If you were going fast enough, it was no problem.

Senna : I overtook you! And you went three times off the road in front of me, at the same place, like ****ing idiot, where there was oil. And you were throwing stones and all things in front of me for three laps. When I took you, you realised I was ahead of you. And when I came up behind Hill, because he was on slicks and in difficulties, you should have stayed behind me. You took a very big risk to put me out of the race.

Irvine : Where did I put you in any danger?

Senna : You didn't put me in any danger?

Irvine : Did I touch you? Did I touch you once?

Senna : No, but you were that much from touching me, and I happened to be the ****ing leader. I HAPPENED TO BE THE ****ING LEADER!

Irvine : A miss is as good as a mile.

Senna : I tell you something. If you don't behave properly in the next event, you can just rethink what you do. I can guarantee you that.

Irvine : The stewards said "No problem. Nothing was wrong."

Senna : Yeah? You wait till Australia. You wait till Australia, when the stewards will talk to you. Then you tell me if they tell you this.

Irvine : Hey, I'm out there to do the best for me.

Senna : This is not correct. You want to do well. I understand, because I've been there I understand. But it's very unprofessional. If you are a back marker, because you happen to be lapped ...

Irvine : But I would have followed you if you'd overtaken Hill!

Senna : You should let the leader go by ...

Irvine : I understand that fully!

Senna : ... and not come by and do the things you did. You nearly hit Hill in front of me three times, because I saw, and I could of collected you and him as a result, and that's not the way to do that.

Irvine : But I'm racing! I'm racing! You just happened to ...

Senna : You're not racing! You're driving like a ****ing idiot. You're not a racing driver, you're a ****ing idiot!

Irvine: You talk, you talk. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Senna : I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Irvine : Yes. I was battling with Hill.

Senna : Really? Really? Just tell me one thing. Who is supposed to have the call? You, or the leader of the race who comes through to lap you?

Irvine : The leader of the race.

Senna : So what have you done?

Irvine : You, you were too slow, and I had to overtake you to try to get at Hill.

Senna : Really? How did I lap you if I was too slow?

Irvine : Rain. Because on slicks you were quicker than me, on wets you weren't.

Senna : Really? Really? How did I come and overtake you on wets?

Irvine : Huh?

Senna : How come I overtook you on wets?

Irvine : I can't remember that. I don't actually remember the race.

Senna : Exactly. Because you are not competent enough to remember. That's how it goes you know.

Irvine : Fair enough. Fair enough. That's what you think.

Senna : You be careful guy.

Irvine : I will. I'll watch out for you.

Senna : You're gonna have problems not with me only, but with lots of other guys, also the FIA.

Irvine : Yeah?

Senna : You bet.

Irvine : Yeah? Good.

Senna : Yeah? It's good to know that.

Irvine : See you out there.

Senna : It's good to know that.

Irvine : See you out there ...

Appearing to turn away Senna then turns back and hits Irvine with his left hand. The blow lands on the right side of Irvine's head. Irvine loses his balance and falls off the table. Senna is still shouting as he is hustled towards the door.

Irvine yells "Insurance claim there!"

Senna (leaving) retorts "You got to learn to respect where you're going wrong!"

 

[Ardius]

His driving style sure was spectacular, but why does everyone worship a driver who crashes with someone else on purpose just to win? in my opinion he should have been suspended for that...

Why do people worship Schumacher who similarly had many controversial incidents.

If you want a driver who never had any controversey (that I can remember) and was an amazing driver, probably Jim Clark is your man.

 

[MilkMan]

**Text that would fit as a wallpaper in my room**

Thanks for explaining it that well, I pretty much judged it from the TG film as I haven't seen much of him before. Maybe I should have read more about him before aking that comment.

Why do people worship Schumacher who similarly had many controversial incidents.

If you want a driver who never had any controversey (that I can remember) and was an amazing driver, probably Jim Clark is your man.

Does really that many people worship shumacher? I haven't heard someone (with a bit of knowledge) saying that their all time favourite driver is schumacher but maybe I've just met the wrong people. Not saying he isn't a good driver though.

 

[Delirious]

-nevermind- Loved the Italia!

 

[McLaren]

I loved the Italia part, but the rest of from Jeff & on seemed kind of...not well thought out?

I liked the idea behind the episode, but I think there was more potential there.


And deeply disappointed by no Cool Wall this season.

 

[Mark T]

I can't believe that was the last episode of the series.

I have enjoyed every Top Gear episode but I just feel this series has been lacking some big projects. Does anyone know if the BBC have cut the TG budget or the allocated production time?

 

[Famine]

Oddly, I was one of about... one people who didn't much care for last week's episode. I shall quote what I posted elsewhere about it:

Let's take it in reverse:

* 20 minute filler film about Ayrton Senna which would have been much better suited to the F1 coverage earlier. Clarkson faps to Hamilton and Brundle. And Hamilton.
* SIARPC. Cruise, as ever, waiting for the voices from Xenu before answering a question. Diaz, as ever, playing the character of a stereotypical, dumb, blonde Californian. Good laps though.
* Veyron around the track again.
* Veyron at Ehre-Lessien again with Captain Slow going faster than anyone else again.
* The news.
* And last and by all means least, utterly dreary Toerag test which morphed into Hammond driving yet another pumped-up offroad racer (Tomcat/Wildcat) in yet another "race" in yet another scenic location fit for plumes of stuff and slidey camera angles in which he's obviously not doing the driving.


The Senna film was excellent (when it featured Senna and snips of Brundle and Coulthard, rather than Clarkson and Hamilton) and misplaced. Cruise's lap was the best "TG" bit of TG in the episode.

Compare this week which had, in reverse,

* Challenge/film about the decline of the British car industry.
* SIARPC. Jeff Goldblum learns stick, does the whole lap in 3rd and sets a comparatively awesome time.
* Challenge - British sports cars vs. 90s hatchbacks. Stig is killed. Twice.
* The news.
* Ferrari 458 - Clarkson dicks around in a red Italian sportscar.


All that last week's episode had to recommend it was an excellent, but misplaced, film about the life of Ayrton Senna. Excellent because it was well written, scripted, edited and filmed, but misplaced because the life of Ayrton Senna was all about motorsports and F1 - and Top Gear has nothing to do with either (save the odd F1 driver on their show, and the occasion the three of them are allowed to enter an actual race in the knowledge at least one of them will cock it up). It was practically a 20 minute Clarkson special, suited to Motorworld, or Car Years or, as I said above, the actual F1 coverage earlier in the day. It wasn't Top Gear - and it served to highlight the dross that was the rest of the episode, which repeated several things we've just plain seen before.

This week's episode was Top Gear. I find dicking about in Ferraris a bit dull, but Clarkson + Ferrari + dicking about = Top Gear. Jeff was a fish out of water with his stick shift and that made SIARPC a rarity - interesting without being fast. The challenge - prove how good something famously crap is - was pure Top Gear. And the three of them wandering forlornly around the former Jensen and TVR factories - with all the commentary about the decline of British manufacturing and car manufacturing - was as engaging as the Senna piece the previous week but broadcast in exactly the right programme for it.

5/7 was one of the worst Top Gear episodes I've ever seen, containing some of the best television I've ever seen (Senna). 6/7 was one of the best, containing some of the dullest (Clarkson in a Ferrari)...

(and 7/7 next week is a "best of")

 

[wfooshee]

"Anagrams everywhere!!"

 

[astrosdude91]

Very good episode. I'm still a bit disappointed that the series was so short, but there isn't anything I could do about that, I'll just have to enjoy the series for what it is.

I enjoyed the British Sports Car challenge. I would have liked to see The Hatchbacks have a fair chance in the Challenges, but that was redeemed by seeing The Stig walking away from the burning wreckage that had just blown up with him in it! Probably the coolest most subtle piece of TG I've seen!

The 458 piece was cool. It really shows how much of a leap Ferrari has taken since the F430. And that 458 looks stunning!

The SIARPC with Jeff Goldblum was great. Jeff Goldblum is a delight to listen to. And his lap in third gear was a laugh!

 

[Ardius]

Does really that many people worship shumacher? I haven't heard someone (with a bit of knowledge) saying that their all time favourite driver is schumacher but maybe I've just met the wrong people. Not saying he isn't a good driver though.

Yeah they do. Some of them rather blind too. Just take a peak on the autosport racing comments forum and you will see for yourself the rabid fanbase he has who will defend even the most outrageous manouvere like just yesterday on Rubens.

All the top drivers have big fanbases, especially in their home countries.

I also agree with Famine that the Senna piece wasn't really Top Gear..but then again numerous F1-related features have been broadcast before on it. It was kind of nice to have a change of tone and also have such a great short explanation broadcast to the millions of people who watch TopGear and who may not all be F1-fans. Its kind of nice to hear so many people talking about Senna who hadn't really known much beyond the name and the crash.
Also, there was a feature on the BTCC a few series back, and no one complained about that being "un-TopGear".
I often wonder whether there should be a motorsport-centric version of TopGear? Where all the guests are racing drivers and focus can be put on numerous race series other than F1.
I do kind of wish they would get some other racing drivers on to compare to the F1 drivers, how would all those BTCC drivers stack up to them? NASCAR? WRC?

Its obviously never going to happen and would never get the same kind of coverage or popularity. It would probably get a decent following though if it was done well. Maybe something for Dave or whoever to consider?

Anyway, I liked last night's episode too. I often echo the same sadness about all those British manufacturers who have died off. The more I go to motor events, the more manufacturers I learn about...there are so many! Names like Davrian, Ginetta (though that is growing again now), Bristol...even now Lister have been forgotten with time. To be fair though, none of them really made amazing cars that warrant survival much anyway but its still sad to see what was and what is.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Oddly, I was one of about... one people who didn't much care for last week's episode. I shall quote what I posted elsewhere about it:

I didn't think the 5th episode was great either. The Senna piece was nice, but it did feel like filler material.

The 6th episode was brilliant on the other hand. I watched it with my brother and I don't think we have ever laughed so much during a TG episode.


I would rank the episodes(greatest to worst): 6, 1, 4, 3 slightly behind, 2 and 5 about equal

 

[Blitz187]

Yeah they do. Some of them rather blind too. Just take a peak on the autosport racing comments forum and you will see for yourself the rabid fanbase he has who will defend even the most outrageous manouvere like just yesterday on Rubens.

That move was just uncalled for... Think a bit of ego got in the way there and couldnt take it that he was being passed... I'll leave it at that though since this should be better discussed in the F1 forum

On-topic: Thoroughly enjoyed the 6th episode this time around... Kind of disappointed they didnt do a Special for episode 7... I really like those, especially the Vietnam one had me in stitches...

 

[ItsHim]

Have to say that was one of the best runs of Top Gear in the last two or three "sessions".

The boys seem to be back, and it felt like just watching three ordinary blokes refusing to grow up. That's Top Gear to me.

Can't help but feel the producers and presenters took notice of the, sometimes harsh, criticism they received on the forums and their own site. Less over the top comic representation of on screen characters and plenty of cocking about without the whole "reality soap" feel it had for a couple of runs.

Very high production standards throughout, and the Senna feature was done very well. Maybe F1 isn't at home at TopGear, but they surely know how to pull off some serious films if they feel like it.

The only disappointment was the 458 film, but that's a personal thing. It's indeed the first Ferrari in a long, long time that gripped me in a way the 80s models did when I was a young bloke.

I'm probably going to hurt somebody's feeling here, but Tom Cruise was really, really creepy. Makes me wish they got rid of the whole SIARPC concept. They seemed to have struggled a bit to get good invitations out in this run. In my view it would have been best to scrap the celebrity bit and send it the same way the cool wall went. But that's probably just me.

Top Gear's back, who would have thought this?

 

[NotThePrez]

The first trailer for Top Gear USA has been launched.

Obviously, it's a bit different than the British show, but it looks pretty good to me.