2014 United Sports Car Championship
- Thread starter Earth
- 6,133 comments
- 267,240 views
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Opening competition would be yet another stumbling block of balancing these cars. Too late and impractical at this point. Plus, it would hurt the on track product. Thankfully, IMSA did take action and park the prototype cars. Apparently the PC tires had some odd blisters on them as well. First time the PC tires have been at Daytona. I know continental will get it right. Hoosier does their race tires, and all Hoosier does is make race tires. They're the largest race tire supplier, so I'd bet they will have the problem fixed. The lack of time from the rule announcements to the tests have a lot to do with the failures.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
What waiting for someone to say this, the problem with that scenario is the fence, when it comes to the accidents in Daytona testing it's different. If the cars and blow and flew into the catch fence I could understand the comparison. But as you suggested, it was the fence that killed him and not the actual closed or open top.
Anyways, this tire issue isn't new in 2013 as we've seen with F1/Pirelli and some issue with Goodyear and NASCAR this year. Problem with those is they're manufactured to work as the governing body sees fit as to where it seems Continental did this on their own and rules didn't dictate or set up the disaster.
Last edited:
- 84
- Tennessee
- lpfuelfan42
- lpfuelfan42
Glad to hear both Westbrook and Barbosa are both okay. Taking flight in a vehicle meant for the road has to be one of the scariest things in motorsport.
That said, and maybe this was just an isolated case, but the concern of open cockpit safety seems to be only in the event the car gets into the fence, like what happened to Dan Wheldon. But then again I recall an incident in a NASCAR Sportsman Series race in 1995 where a racer ( Russell Phillips I believe?) went roof first into the fence resulting in his passing.
Sometimes in racing freak things that you can't possibly think of happening will occur.
That said, and maybe this was just an isolated case, but the concern of open cockpit safety seems to be only in the event the car gets into the fence, like what happened to Dan Wheldon. But then again I recall an incident in a NASCAR Sportsman Series race in 1995 where a racer ( Russell Phillips I believe?) went roof first into the fence resulting in his passing.
Sometimes in racing freak things that you can't possibly think of happening will occur.
- 3,019
- Essex
no matter how safe these cars are made, human bodies aren't designed for the speed the cars can go. The horrible reality is there will always be deaths in motorsport. The drivers have to just hope luck is on their side. Much like it was for Westbrook and Barbosa...
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
I'd say the blame is just as much on the track as it is the car personally. Looking at Simonsen's death, it's obvious that the tree right behind the barrier that he impacted is what caused his fatal injuries. It's not just prototypes that have safety issues. The safety mandates for the doors of GT3 cars need a serious look. Here's the Turner Z4
https://twitter.com/Turnermotrsport
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Once again though as people made clear freak things happen, look back a few years at the high impact crash caused by Bergmeister's flying lizard Porsche on the car in my avatar at Laguna Seca. The car did it's job and no one was hurt, it's racing and it's dangerous but these testing incidents in no way shape or form prove another asset of DP as you claimed earlier, if it was a GT LM, GT-D or PC or anything really I'd expect them to walk away.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
That's kind of the point of a manufacturer competition, no? Everyone trying to be the best.
Which makes me question this:
How does competing to show you have the best tire make a worse product than trying to be good enough to keep your series contract?
I can't believe how much it hurt Falken's rain tire.
Maybe we shouldn't even keep time and just say everyone wins for a good show.
If tires need to be redone, how so?
I'd have more confidence if they didn't start off with problems that create a safety issue.
If that is true, that doesn't give me a lot of confidence in how the series will go early on.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Manufacturer competition turns into a spec tire essentially as well. Look how all the GTLM cars are on Michelin except Falken because they're trying to develop their own product. That just raises the cost of tires because common logic should show that whoever puts the best tire on the market can charge more for it and teams that want the best tire for the best chance at winning will buy it. That's an unnecessary cost increase for teams. Continental has not had problems of this scale with tires until now. Like I said earlier, the lack of time from the rules being redone every 10 minutes has hampered the ability to put a working tire out there. DP and LMP2 are on the same tire. I'll bet the tire will fail on the LMP2 just like it has on the DP, but since the LMP2s aren't out there testing except for ESM which is 4 seconds slower on the same tires as the Conquest car that did a 1.39 flat last November shows how poorly they're sandbagging. The lack of trying by the LMP2 cars during the test leads me to believe that the tire will fail for the LMP2 cars too, but since they're not the cars flipping into the fence, continental won't know that the LMP2 won't work on those tires. Then the Rolex 24 rolls around and we see LMP2 cars blowing tires at high speeds and everyone gets pissy at continental when it's the team's fault for not testing.
- 35,487
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that a new tire might be needed for the coming changes of said car. Continental should've anticipated that even with the draft rules that the cars are about to be vastly different in charactheristics then the cars they've been making tires for. Some people keep comparing this to Pirelli in F1 but the huge difference is that Pirelli were told to make essentially terrible tires (and are so unhappy about it, they plan to leave is something isn't done, which tells me even they know how screwed up that is). Continental however didn't even try to at least anticipate anything.
- 2,186
- W-S, NC
- WillyTwoScoops
You are assuming they didn't. We have no idea that the tire wouldn't hold up either and if they went into making all these tire changes for no reason. It's why they tested, now they can figure out what needs to be done instead.
The accident was a freak one at that and no one saw that coming. Tire failure happens or even a thing they saw might happen but to have it happen like that was something no one knew would happen.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Also, some cowling flaps and/or a diffuser that is hinged so it doesn't allow all that air to get under the car to achieve liftoff wouldn't hurt. I remember reading an article about the Delta Wing having something like that on it. It's well worth the investment if it keeps cars from flipping in the event of a tire failure, but I agree that the tires need to be fixed too. Adding the cowlings and other features are only treating the symptoms and not the disease metaphorically speaking
- 35,487
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
However, its foolish to set there and not so much as even take into consideration the possibility. The fact that they seem to have literally stuck with the same tire doesn't exactly say to me that they at least thought of the likelihood of this happening.
Not at all am I saying that Tire accidents don't happen, I'm saying that its was one that could've been prevented if they made a different tire. I've never been so sure of continental and this just makes me further suspicious.
As for the cowling flaps or whatever is being suggested, That's not going to work. These are not the Stock cars , these are higher downforce cars and I seriously doubt they'll stop that.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
@cnd01 Why are you seemingly upset over LMP2 sandbagging? I've seen plenty of testing where they are tweaking things and working out quirks until they feel confident to have it as near perfect as possible in the time allowed. There is more to test than just possible qualifying times.
It's not uncommon in sports. But all prototypes are stopped while they figure this out, so no fear P2 will be on these tires and all die in fiery open-cockpit crashes at Daytona. Besides there are ways to test things, including tires, off the track. None of it is as good as on-track testing, but you know what to expect.
What worries me about this is even before a race I've been in the paddocks and seen tire techs doing temperature readings, running computer simulations, and a million things I can't identify. From a tech angle the tire manufacturer tents are some of the most interesting to watch. They've even put out warnings that the current track conditions will wear tires faster than in practice and give recommendations to the teams. I'd love to know if Continental was blind to the issues or actually had and idea and warned teams in advance.
It's not uncommon in sports. But all prototypes are stopped while they figure this out, so no fear P2 will be on these tires and all die in fiery open-cockpit crashes at Daytona. Besides there are ways to test things, including tires, off the track. None of it is as good as on-track testing, but you know what to expect.
What worries me about this is even before a race I've been in the paddocks and seen tire techs doing temperature readings, running computer simulations, and a million things I can't identify. From a tech angle the tire manufacturer tents are some of the most interesting to watch. They've even put out warnings that the current track conditions will wear tires faster than in practice and give recommendations to the teams. I'd love to know if Continental was blind to the issues or actually had and idea and warned teams in advance.
- 1,680
- Great White North
- I_powerslide
ESM has said that at Sebring they were just testing the new fly-by-wire throttle system on the car. They hadn't intended on doing the test at all, but since they were in the area they decided to anyways. Also saw a quote by one of the drivers somewhere about ESM not going all out at Daytona because they wanted to work on the reliability issues from last season. He figured if they had done a low fuel run their times would improve about 2 seconds, which was still slower than Action Express. Also, their P2 isn't in full 2014 spec, they don't have the Le Mans aero kit on the car yet.
Weird, I was sure it was on sportscar365.com. Oh well, if I find the article I'll put it in this post.
- 2,186
- W-S, NC
- WillyTwoScoops
They could have changed the tire, but still might have been an issue. I guess what they should have done is had few different ones just in case but not even sure that really would been the issue.
Granted I am not exactly their biggest fan and seem as iffy as you, I'm almost surprised they didn't try to force Falken out or to some how use theirs too.
- 2,121
- Chicago
- mustang622006
From what I hear teams were running the tires out of mfg specs concerning pressures and camber angles, there is a reason the tire company puts out those specs and race teams shouldn't be allowed to treat them as "suggestions". I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at Conti just yet.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
I've been reading in some places that the teams who had tyre issues may have been running lower pressures than reccomended by Continental. Kinda what happened in F1
- 35,487
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I could've sworn the problem wasn't just the air pressures, but the teams running the tires in a inverted position (or something) that also caused it.
- 9,387
- Pittsburgh
- polarbear345
They were switching left and right rear tires. The tire insides were unwinding pretty much.
Example: Roll a roll of toilet paper in a hallway with the paper one way, then do the same with the paper the other way. The teams were putting the tires on the way when the paper starts to unroll.
If that makes sense...
This being in F1. Not sure for the testing wrecks recently.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
When they say it was tire pressures, how much difference are we talking? Raising and lowering tire pressures is not an uncommon adjustment. There could be an issue if more than on team made common adjustments and had tire issues.
- 2,121
- Chicago
- mustang622006
Yes, adjustments in fractions of a psi are not uncommon at all, I think we are talking much more than that. I heard that one driver said that that they would never run pressures that low in a race when he found out how low another team was running. There were also high downforce, 2014 spec cars making full fuel, full stint runs that had no problems at all and low downforce 2013 spec cars that were seeing some issues. The more I hear about it the more I think it sounds like set-up, pressure, camber & toe angles than primarily tire issues.
- 3,321
- United States
- GTP_Sam48
Level 5 Motorsports Enters Two Ferraris into GT-D
GT-D is looking to become the most populated class in USCC.
GT-D is looking to become the most populated class in USCC.
- 1,421
- California
- WeaselKing707
- N/A
01GTP
Premium
- 3,345
- East Canaan, CT
- GTP_01GTP
I am also surprised that there are so many GTD cars so far.
I'm not sure but I think this class (GTD) has at least a stronger roll cage which is one of the (GT3) differences/mods.
Looking at the Ferrari's alone there is quite a difference in the noses.
And even though the Vipers have similar sheet metal they are quite different to drive.
So I agree it's probably more about who's driving rather than what they're driving for most teams, except of course, the factory folks.
It's all about the cash!
I think this is a big part behind the choice of class rather than the cars themselves.
I'm not sure but I think this class (GTD) has at least a stronger roll cage which is one of the (GT3) differences/mods.
Looking at the Ferrari's alone there is quite a difference in the noses.
And even though the Vipers have similar sheet metal they are quite different to drive.
So I agree it's probably more about who's driving rather than what they're driving for most teams, except of course, the factory folks.
It's all about the cash!
- 7,116
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
I think all the major differences are in here: http://audi-motorsport-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/how-to-spot-audi-r16-part-3-audi-r8.html
I'm not sure if there are any big changes to that since the merger (some of the new Daytona GT cars seem to have side windows now).
Similar threads
Latest Posts
-
-
-
-
Gran Turismo 7 Livery Editor - General Discussion Thread- Latest: LeftoverPizza
-
