Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[GingerBredMan]

Max Verstappen is overrated.

There, I said it.

 

[toastet]

Before this season I would agree, even after Bahrain, Imola and Barcelona. But at the actual state great chance of swallowing these words soon ☺️

I would still stick to Perez is overrated and Albon/Gasly would produce similar results in the actual RB and maybe even closer than half a second to Max since Alex had this .5s last year too (w the problem of a closer midfield so Max P3/4, Albon P6-7-8-9 with 0.5s, now Max P1 and Sergio P2-3-4 w .5s)

 

[GingerBredMan]

Before this season I would agree, even after Bahrain, Imola and Barcelona. But at the actual state great chance of swallowing these words soon ☺️

This is kind of my point. I'm not talking about soon, I'm talking about today.

 

[Liquid]

Max Verstappen is overrated.

There, I said it.

Based on what?

 

[GingerBredMan]

Based on what?

From my perspective I've seen a lot of hype about him being one of the greats of F1, but on paper it doesn't really add up:

Never finished higher than 3rd in the championship dispite having the 2nd best car on the grid for 2-3 years.

No championships in any forms of motorsport.

1st win was mostly gifted by the Lewis Hamilton/Nico Rosberg crash. Took him over a year to win another race.

I don't think there's any doubt that he'll be a champion. But there seems to be a rush to proclaim him better than so many other drivers on the grid. There's always talk about what he could have done in a Mercedes, but there's never talk about how many drivers could accomplish what he has in the Red Bull.

 

[Liquid]

From my perspective I've seen a lot of hype about him being one of the greats of F1

I think there are two things in play here:

1) A lot of people would say that Max Verstappen is one of the greatest current drivers.
2) I don't think many people say that he's already one of the all-time greats and if they are, then yes, that is premature.

I think it's quite clear that he's one of the most talented drivers on the grid right now. No question.

As for him finishing 3rd in the 2nd best car, isn't that exactly what you'd expect? The best car takes 1st and 2nd, the next best car takes 3rd. He was 9 points off Bottas last season with 5 DNFs.

 

[GingerBredMan]

As for him finishing 3rd in the 2nd best car, isn't that exactly what you'd expect? The best car takes 1st and 2nd, the next best car takes 3rd. He was 9 points off Bottas last season with 5 DNFs.

Not really. That logic definitely doesn't apply to this year, nor does it when Ferrari had a good car in 2017 & 2018. In fact both Vettel and Raikkonen beat Bottas in the second best car in '18

I should also point out that Bottas and Verstappen had the same amount of DNFs in 2019.

 

[Liquid]

Not really. That logic definitely doesn't apply to this year, nor does it when Ferrari had a good car in 2017 & 2018. In fact both Vettel and Raikkonen beat Bottas in the second best car in '18

I should also point out that Bottas and Verstappen had the same amount of DNFs in 2019.

None of this indicates that Verstappen is overrated or a bad driver.

 

[NotThePrez]

From my perspective I've seen a lot of hype about him being one of the greats of F1, but on paper it doesn't really add up:

Never finished higher than 3rd in the championship dispite having the 2nd best car on the grid for 2-3 years.

I mean, that makes perfect sense, especially given some context for those seasons:

2016 - 2018: The RBR cars were "only" the 3rd best cars those year, having a significant pace (and in the case of 2017, reliability) disadvantage to both Mercedes and Ferrari.

2019: About even with Ferrari, still nowhere near the Mercedes. Lewis and Valterri finish 1-2 respectively.

2020: Actually the 2nd fastest, still a long ways off from both Mercs, Lewis and Valterri finish 1-2 respectively.

This year he has a very competitive car underneath him, and is very clearly extracting every last drop of speed from his car. With Sergio proving to be a solid #2, Max can also focus much more on his own performance rather than have to worry about putting in good results while also fending off his rivals.

No championships in any forms of motorsport.

No, but he did come 3rd in the 2014 European F3 season, during which he won 10 races, including 6 races in-a-row. I'd say that that's no mean feat by any means.

Plus, it's kind of hard to win other championships when Red Bull swoops down to put you in their F1 B-car at just barley 18 years old, with the very clear intention of fast-tracking Max into the main team.

1st win was mostly gifted by the Lewis Hamilton/Nico Rosberg crash. Took him over a year to win another race.

I'd say a win's a win, regardless of circumstance. And again, in the time between those victories he was having to try and chase 2 teams that were running much faster cars than what he had access to, and also got his 2nd victory on merit, despite having to deal with a very unreliable RB13.

I don't think there's any doubt that he'll be a champion. But there seems to be a rush to proclaim him better than so many other drivers on the grid. There's always talk about what he could have done in a Mercedes, but there's never talk about how many drivers could accomplish what he has in the Red Bull.

Except that he's proving to be at least the 2nd best driver on the grid, and the only driver at the moment to be able to challenge and beat Lewis Hamilton. I wouldn't even say it's down to the car, since the Red Bull seems to be about even with the Mercedes this year, and Sergio, who is proving to be very competent in the Red Bull, is still nowhere close to Max in terms of overall pace, and seems to be the 4th best driver on the grid, behind Lewis, Max and (slightly behind) Lando Norris.

Taking that all into consideration, I personally don't think any other driver on the grid (that is, any that would realistically find themselves at Red Bull) would really be able to achieve what Max has so far. The only drivers who I could maybe see being close are Lando and Vettel, however Vettel relies too much on fundamental car setup (which isn't going to happen considering that the RBR at this point is built around Max), and Lando has only driven the McLaren. While that has very much worked out for him, I don't feel like he's shown if he'd be able to adapt to a radically different kind of car, which he would have to if Red Bull picked him up.

 

[GingerBredMan]

None of this indicates that Verstappen is overrated or a bad driver.

Where did I say he was bad driver?

A lot of people would say that Max Verstappen is one of the greatest current drivers.

You're attaching the word 'great' to someone with 0 championships. Never heard of a driver being considered great without having a championship to show for it.

Can't even call this guy overrated in the unpopular opinion section without people getting bent lol. I'm not gonna continue arguing this. Keep putting the kid on a pedestal.

 

[Greycap]

You're attaching the word 'great' to someone with 0 championships. Never heard of a driver being considered great without having a championship to show for it.

You've probably never heard of Stirling Moss, Ronnie Peterson or Gilles Villeneuve then, among others. I have to say you've missed a lot, sorry for that.

 

[GingerBredMan]

You've probably never heard of Stirling Moss, Ronnie Peterson or Gilles Villeneuve then, among others. I have to say you've missed a lot, sorry for that.

One thing all these guys have in common is they were at least runner up in an F1 championship. I rest my case.

 

[NotThePrez]

Can't even call this guy overrated in the unpopular opinion section without people getting bent lol. I'm not gonna continue arguing this. Keep putting the kid on a pedestal.

I'm pretty sure nobody's "getting bent." This is a discussion thread, which means if you post your take, chances are someone's going to inquire about it and/or ask you to defend it.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

You're attaching the word 'great' to someone with 0 championships. Never heard of a driver being considered great without having a championship to show for it.

One thing all these guys have in common is they were at least runner up in an F1 championship. I rest my case.

And either one of these seems very likely to happen this year. Make Max Great Again

 

[GingerBredMan]

I'm pretty sure nobody's "getting bent." This is a discussion thread, which means if you post your take, chances are someone's going to inquire about it and/or ask you to defend it.

For 98% of a discussion thread site I would agree. But I mean... 4 separate people felt the need to reply to an "Unpopular Opinion". You wrote a short novel. And somewhere in there me calling Max overrated turned in to me calling him a bad driver which I don't recall saying. The moment my opinion gets spun in to something I didn't say, why keep going?

 

[NotThePrez]

For 98% of a discussion thread site I would agree. But I mean... 4 separate people felt the need to reply to an "Unpopular Opinion".

And that's a problem because...? There's no rule saying only a certain # of people are allowed to respond to a post.

You wrote a short novel.

I responded to each of your points in detail, because I felt like (whether by lack of knowledge of previous F1 seasons, on purpose or otherwise) you were missing some important context in your claims against Max. Since this is a thread to discuss opinions, I also decided to throw in my own take on certain aspects. That's part of what makes a discussion, a discussion.

And somewhere in there me calling Max overrated turned in to me calling him a bad driver which I don't recall saying.

Can't speak for @Liquid, but to be fair, he did say...

…overrated or a bad driver.

...which, to me at least, isn't the same thing as saying that you only claimed that Max is a bad driver.

The moment my opinion gets spun in to something I didn't say, why keep going?

I don't think that's really what happening here, but if that's your prerogative, then by all means.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Verstappen is a champion in waiting. He is the best driver on the grid right now and I don't think anyone can disagree with that based on the results this year. People aren't overrating him (or at least they shouldn't be), they're rating him based on his performance. He hasn't won a championship but he's shown qualities of a champion. He's rated, not overrated.

 

[toastet]

As always in F1, results are only possible with a fast car. Best driver is always difficult to judge and to call. He is among the best drivers in the actual field and even F1 itself I would say. But no one knows who will or can be the best of the "newschool" drivers including Max, Charles, Lando, George. You'll never know what can happen. Just look at other future world champions (a way too often used term in my opinion) like Danny Ric, Robert Kubica or even Jules Bianchi. Kimi or Fernando are both WDCs but I think everyone would agree that they should have more titles. Or remember the young Juan-Pablo Montoya who brought a lot of fire in the F1 but in the end didn't win anything substantial. You never know what will happen and if you will have a chance in a fast/the fastest car or other circumstances like crashes in or out of the F1 car will deny even the chance of becoming WDC.

 

[Simmpa]

Max Verstappen is overrated.

There, I said it.

Altough he been performing well now I can agree with you. From 2016-2018 he been crashing and been involved with countless racing incidents. I think It´s sad that Kvyat was dropped because of his performace in Russia when Verstappen crashed alot more.

 

[TheCracker]

As always in F1, results are only possible with a fast car. Best driver is always difficult to judge and to call. He is among the best drivers in the actual field and even F1 itself I would say. But no one knows who will or can be the best of the "newschool" drivers including Max, Charles, Lando, George. You'll never know what can happen. Just look at other future world champions (a way too often used term in my opinion) like Danny Ric, Robert Kubica or even Jules Bianchi. Kimi or Fernando are both WDCs but I think everyone would agree that they should have more titles. Or remember the young Juan-Pablo Montoya who brought a lot of fire in the F1 but in the end didn't win anything substantial. You never know what will happen and if you will have a chance in a fast/the fastest car or other circumstances like crashes in or out of the F1 car will deny even the chance of becoming WDC.

I think Alonso has as many world titles as he deserves, but i don't think Kimi should have had more titles then the one he has. You could even argue that he lucked into that one whilst Alonso and Hamilton stumbled over each other at McLaren.

 

[toastet]

I think Alonso has as many world titles as he deserves, but i don't think Kimi should have had more titles then the one he has. You could even argue that he lucked into that one whilst Alonso and Hamilton stumbled over each other at McLaren.

In 2003 Kimi missed the title by 2 points and the fact he had to give back the win in Brazil and 4 points to Fisichella who crashed his car but lucked to the win because of this crash the previous lap did count as race result and the race didn't restart. He also had the fastest car in 2005 but had to retire 3 times with mechanical failures from a leading race and Alonso lucked the title. Some may remember the colossal fail of the front suspension in the last lap at the Nürburgring while he was comfortably in the lead. And yes 2007 was lucky but he was way more unlucky before so it is absolutely fine.

 

[Roo]

In 2003 Kimi missed the title by 2 points and the fact he had to give back the win in Brazil and 4 points to Fisichella who crashed his car but lucked to the win because of this crash the previous lap did count as race result and the race didn't restart.

Fisichella didn't crash. He passed Raikkonen fair and square, led for a couple of laps behind the safety car, and then his car set itself on fire in the pitlane.

Coulthard was ahead of Raikkonen when DC pitted for fuel on lap 52 (Webber crashed on lap 54, red flags flew just after Fisichella had started lap 56). Raikkonen, Fisichella and Alonso had to pit for fuel if the race went full distance (and Kimi did after Webber's shunt, at the end of lap 55, but the red flag countback ment it was never officially recorded). Without the Webber crash and ensuing safety car, it's highly likely the podium would've been Coulthard 1st, Raikkonen 2nd, Webber 3rd - with Michael Schumacher crashing and no other championship rivals in the top 6, I'm sure Ron Dennis would've told the McLarens to hold station for a 1-2. Raikkonen would've finished second anyway.

Edit: fun little aside - Jos Verstappen in the Minardi was ahead of, and on the same strategy as, Fisichella when Verstappen crashed in Turn 3.

 

[TheCracker]

In 2003 Kimi missed the title by 2 points and the fact he had to give back the win in Brazil and 4 points to Fisichella who crashed his car but lucked to the win because of this crash the previous lap did count as race result and the race didn't restart. He also had the fastest car in 2005 but had to retire 3 times with mechanical failures from a leading race and Alonso lucked the title. Some may remember the colossal fail of the front suspension in the last lap at the Nürburgring while he was comfortably in the lead. And yes 2007 was lucky but he was way more unlucky before so it is absolutely fine.

I don't think that he's not a top quality driver in any way, i just don't think there's any great injustice to his level of talent that in his 20 seasons in F1 he's only been WDC once.

 

[Liquid]

Edit: fun little aside - Jos Verstappen in the Minardi was ahead of, and on the same strategy as, Fisichella when Verstappen crashed in Turn 3.

One of the greatest What Ifs, to me.

 

[Com Fox]

With Supercars. I prefer the 3 race weekend format over 2 race weekend formats.

Not to say I think all weekends should 3 race formats. Some events are perfect for 2 medium chunk races but I prefer most weekends being 3 races, I like picking up a race and watching it in quick bursts.

 

[Liquid]

I've probably said this before but publicly broadcasting radio during a Grand Prix is really boring and takes away a lot of excitement for me.

 

[PeterJB]

I've probably said this before but publicly broadcasting radio during a Grand Prix is really boring and takes away a lot of excitement for me.

It's annoying that on the rare occasion that Hamilton's car breaks down you have about 10 laps warning.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Listening to Dale Jr, Steve Letarte and Jeff Burton on the NBC NASCAR broadcast is far more grating than listening to Rick Allen. They sound like excited schoolchildren rather than grown men.

 

[Liquid]

I don't think Michael Schumacher's move on Damon Hill at Adelaide in 1994 is quite as bad as it has been vilified to be.

Schumacher is still by far at fault but Hill was a little bit too rash. The Benetton was damaged and a lot slower having just returned to the circuit. Hill didn't have to pass there and then and would have easily gotten by after the corner had he been patient enough to not throw his car down the inside.

But in the heat of the moment, Hill went for a not-guaranteed overtake and Schumacher made sure it was never going to come off.

 

[r_outsider]

I don't think Michael Schumacher's move on Damon Hill at Adelaide in 1994 is quite as bad as it has been vilified to be.

Schumacher is still by far at fault but Hill was a little bit too rash. The Benetton was damaged and a lot slower having just returned to the circuit. Hill didn't have to pass there and then and would have easily gotten by after the corner had he been patient enough to not throw his car down the inside.

But in the heat of the moment, Hill went for a not-guaranteed overtake and Schumacher made sure it was never going to come off.

I'd sort of agree with you but Schumacher's attempt to do basically the same thing to Villeneuve at Jerez in 1997 cemented his legacy as a villain in many minds. And I say that as a fan of Schumacher.