Unpopular opinion - VGT Cars need to go...

[gambleboyen]

I remember I was excited about the VGT cars coming to GT6, but after a while the excitement faded as they were all very similar and bland. Like smooth pieces of soap with a badge on the front. And it was annoying that these cars were modeled instead of proper cars.

And these cars popped up in GTS as well, even more of them and completely irrelevant.

So I was of course not surprised to see them in GT7, but I have absolutely no interest in buying any of them. (Not the X201x cars either, pure nonsense)

 

[pedrocor]

Not an unpopular idea at all, as you can see.

It's not much about that. Some cars are pretty fun to drive, but that's not the point.

The point is, the resources that PD has already wasted on those VGT cars, could've been used for Real Life cars, which is what everyone wants.

No one, I repeat, no one wants VGT cars over Real Life cars. No one. There can be people who like VGT cars but if there is such a person who prefers that the focus be on VGTs, than they are not playing the right game.

The plehora of real life cars they could've easily already put into the game. Even Japanese cars such as:

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution from I to IX
Mitsubishi FTO
Toyota MR-2
Lexus LFA (it's really shocking this car isn't in the game already when it was a premium in GT5/GT6 and is an iconic japanese car)
Suzuki Escudo
Japanese Kei cars

Well, the point is... on PD logic, those cars were too old to be included in GTSport, they should give more relevance to recent cars (and fictional cars over real cars). But in GT7, it seems that recent cars don't include models after 2017, except very rare cases.

Not being VGT, one example of PD laziness is the Nissan Gr. 4 model. Being similar to GT4, there were GT4 versions of Nissan Fairlady 350Z and 370Z both, but it was easier to retouch an already rendered GT-R to make a Gr. 4. McLaren has a 570S GT4, but again, it's easier to make a 650S Gr. 4.

 

[Eq]

The VGT cars are what makes credit grinding work.

 

[nickg07]

Not an unpopular idea at all, as you can see.


Well, the point is... on PD logic, those cars were too old to be included in GTSport, they should give more relevance to recent cars (and fictional cars over real cars). But in GT7, it seems that recent cars don't include models after 2017, except very rare cases.

Not being VGT, one example of PD laziness is the Nissan Gr. 4 model. Being similar to GT4, there were GT4 versions of Nissan Fairlady 350Z and 370Z both, but it was easier to retouch an already rendered GT-R to make a Gr. 4. McLaren has a 570S GT4, but again, it's easier to make a 650S Gr. 4.

I took a chance when I made this thread.

Seems I am not alone in this.

 

[nickg07]

The VGT cars are what makes credit grinding work.

Because they are overpowered... not because they fit in the game.

Which is one of the main problems.

 

[Tekku]

What I dislike most is when you're in a really nice practice/meeting session with people who are trying to set good times, drift and compete against eachother and this one asshat just smashes around a VGT car with no regard for anything or anyone. It looks so out of place and silly that I'm doing my hardest not to cringe everytime I witness it.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

It makes me very sad that we will probably never get a TVR VGT. 😭

... You prefer having a fantasy TVR (that might end up being crap in looks and possibly performance) instead of something like a TVR Speed 12?

Mind you, I wouldn't mind a couple more TVRs in this game. Speed 12 definitely on my most wanted list.

Not being VGT, one example of PD laziness is the Nissan Gr. 4 model. Being similar to GT4, there were GT4 versions of Nissan Fairlady 350Z and 370Z both, but it was easier to retouch an already rendered GT-R to make a Gr. 4. McLaren has a 570S GT4, but again, it's easier to make a 650S Gr. 4.

The only GT3 cars in the game that are real are:

SLS GT3
AMG GT GT3
458 GT3
650S GT3
Viper GT3-R
R.S.01 GT3
911 RSR
GT-R NISMO GT3
V12 Vantage GT3

All the cars in the game that have "Gr." in their name (and also no model year) are fictional cars or cars that any of us could've just made on the spot with the widebody/aero parts in GT Auto and using the livery maker/editor.

GT4 cars are barely any real ones in the game.

Which is why I've been saying from the start, that the number of cars in GT7 is unimpressive when you consider that of the 424 available, 116 of them are Fictional/Duplicate cars.

I look at Brand Central of brands like Hyundai, Jaguar, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, and half or more of their cars are fakes... It's just not appealing at all unless you are a fil*** casual.


Basically, 308 cars are the real deal. Considering that it's been 9 years since GT6, 70% of the cars were directly from GT Sport and that Polyphony has the backing of Sony, I'm extremely disappointed in such low numbers.

And even among these 308 you can still manage to find a few duplicates like the Supra '19 and Supra '20 or the Clio trophy '15 and Clio trophy '16.


Not good enough... I look at Forza, and despite the overall quality not being as good as GT7, the cars are still good looking and it has not only a lot more of them, but more variety (and not a hughe % of fake cars).

But hey, you have VGTs barely anyone among the fanbase cares about, you have Music Rally and you also have an extremely detailed photo mode...

 

[BrunusCL82]

I don't like Red Bull cars either. It is likely that, in real life, a pilot would not last ten laps because of the G-Force. Its existence, however, does not bother me. What bothers me is putting this car in Sport mode. On the other hand, we don't have races with McLaren P1 GTR and Pagani Zonda GTR, and maybe the occasional ones added: AMG Project ONE, AM Valhalla, Mclaren Senna GTR etc.

Anyway, but RB Junior is tolerable.

If you are going to invest in single-seaters, I would prefer that PD bring Formula Indy to Gran Turismo, just the two models, with Honda and Chevrolet engines - like it did bringing in the Super Formula cars.

Going back to the VGT cars, as most people said, what really bothers me the most is putting the VGTs to race in the Gr category. 1. Although, my final opinion is that wacky VGTs, taken straight from cyberpunk anime, shouldn't even exist.

If there is a lack of Gr. 1 cars, PD could bring the DPi and LMP2 cars to the Gr. 1 category.

• Cadillac DPi-V.R
• Acura ARX-05
• Mazda RT24-P
• Ligier Nissan
• Oreca 07

Also, PD could separate the Group C cars from the Prototype cars of the last few decades.

And work on the equivalent BOP between the DPi (Cadillac, Acura, etc.) and LMP2 (Oreca 7) and the LMP1 (Hypercars). When running LMP1 only, maximum power is released.

 

[nowcontrol]

... You prefer having a fantasy TVR instead of something like a TVR Speed 12?

You're putting words in my mouth. That is not what I said.

I want all the TVRs of past games, and more of course (I would love to see the Typhon and the t400R).

The idea of a VGT from TVR is so unimaginable how crazy and ridiculous (or not) it might be and that makes me giggle enough to know I'd have lot of fun driving one, just as I do with the TVRs (and some VGTs) already in the GT series. 👍

 

[Chrome_PuPXD]

You actually mean to tell me that you prefer to see VGT cars in this game over Real Life ones?
Do you actually prefer that PD wastes their resources on VGTs, cars that are pure dreams and some of which go against the actual laws of physics, in detriment of adding more real life cars into the game?
Don't kid yourself...

Just make a poll with these options:

-"You want more VGT cars in GT7 instead of more Real Life cars?"
-"You want more Real Life cars in GT7 instead of VGT cars?"

And see the results for yourself. The first option wouldn't even get 5% of the votes (and I'm being generous).

What is this logic, because its not the preferred car type it shouldn't exist at all?

There is room in the game for all types of cars, why should they only cater to one type? If I prefer race cars and you prefer road cars, would it be fine for me to tell them to not waste resources on something I don't personally like and only do mine? Of course not...

 

[pedrocor]

... You prefer having a fantasy TVR (that might end up being crap in looks and possibly performance) instead of something like a TVR Speed 12?

Mind you, I wouldn't mind a couple more TVRs in this game. Speed 12 definitely on my most wanted list.

The only GT3 cars in the game that are real are:

SLS GT3
AMG GT GT3
458 GT3
650S GT3
Viper GT3-R
R.S.01 GT3
911 RSR
GT-R NISMO GT3
V12 Vantage GT3

All the cars in the game that have "Gr." in their name (and also no model year) are fictional cars or cars that any of us could've just made on the spot with the widebody/aero parts in GT Auto and using the livery maker/editor.

GT4 cars are barely any real ones in the game.

Which is why I've been saying from the start, that the number of cars in GT7 is unimpressive when you consider that of the 424 available, 116 of them are Fictional/Duplicate cars.

I look at Brand Central of brands like Hyundai, Jaguar, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, and half or more of their cars are fakes... It's just not appealing at all unless you are a fil*** casual.


Basically, 308 cars are the real deal. Considering that it's been 9 years since GT6, 70% of the cars were directly from GT Sport and that Polyphony has the backing of Sony, I'm extremely disappointed in such low numbers.

And even among these 308 you can still manage to find a few duplicates like the Supra '19 and Supra '20 or the Clio trophy '15 and Clio trophy '16.


Not good enough... I look at Forza, and despite the overall quality not being as good as GT7, the cars are still good looking and it has not only a lot more of them, but more variety (and not a hughe % of fake cars).

But hey, you have VGTs barely anyone among the fanbase cares about, you have Music Rally and you also have an extremely detailed photo mode...

First things first.
Actually the Gr. 3 Porsche 911 RSR is the GTE/GTLM version of the car, not GT3. Likewise, the Corvette and the Z4 Gr. 3 are real cars too, but also the GTE/GTLM version (the Z4 GTE/GTLM looks like a wide body modification of the GT3 version, and is actually the one in the game).
The Aston Martin DB9 and McLaren F1 GT-R have a real counterpart, being GT1 cars and BMW M3 was a GT2 car, considering the proper classes at the time.
The Ford GT LM is something harder to define, having a GT1, a GT2 and two GT3 versions which are pretty similar between them, not really sure what version it relates if any in particular.

Also there are more real GT3:
Audi R8 (the most produced GT3 model ever)
BMW M6
Honda NSX
Lamborghini Huracan
Lexus RC-F

There was a Mustang GT3 which only had a Belgium homologation but can't be related to the one in GT, as they are pretty different.
The Supra will be a GT3, but was not properly homologated at the time it was introduced in GT Sport.

In Gr. 4 there are a bunch of real world racing cars:
Aston Martin Vantage (GT4)
Audi TT (GT4)
BMW M4 (GT4)
Porsche Cayman (GT4)
Renault Megane Trophy (one make series)
Toyota GT86 (GT4)

There are GT4 versions of Mustang and F-Type that aren't similar to the ones in the game.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

What is this logic, because its not the preferred car type it shouldn't exist at all?

There is room in the game for all types of cars, why should they only cater to one type? If I prefer race cars and you prefer road cars, would it be fine for me to tell them to not waste resources on something I don't personally like and only do mine? Of course not...

Wow, reading comprehension much?

Who the f* talked about car types? I don't mind any car type in this game at all (aside from SUVs but at least those exist and, unfortunately, do have a large fanbase to appeal to).

I'm talking about the company wasting resources on fictional cars instead of focusing on the near infinite existing exciting cars that have a large fanbase and are more defined into the game that call's itself the "Real Driving Simulator", which thrieves for realism, words from the mouth of the creator himself (to the point he even wants the cars in the game to have their real life prices).

-Why the hell did we get a Lambo VGT instead of a Gallardo? Or a Centenario?
-Why the hell do we have several fictional Gr.B Rally cars in the game instead of actual amazing cars like the Lancia S4, the Lancia 037, the Renault 5 Maxi Turbo, the Metro 6R4? Or the Pikes Peak cars like the Escudo?
-Why the hell do we have a Porsche VGT instead of a 918 Spyder and or a 959?
-Why the f* do we have VGTs as duplicates into Gr.1 cars instead of actual LM/GT1 cars like the Toyota GT-One, Nissan R390, BMW V12 LMR, Bentley Speed 8, Audi R10 TDi????

With this said, no, there is no room in the game for all cars. VGTs and imaginary Gr. cars that we can make ourselves in the tuning shops and livery editors should count as actual cars for the car count in the game to be higher, or count as cars themselves to begin with.

It's even more insulting that a quite a few of these VGTs are pretty much replicas of each other... 3 Tomahawks, 3 Alpines, 3 VWs, 2 Mercedes... All of these with near identical specs aside from the Tomahawks... Just why?


And in them wasting time and resources on these cars, they can't spend it on the real cars.

The same company that tried to future proof it's PREMIUM cars from GT5... Yeah, look at what happened to that. 300 cars from GT6 that had to be remodeled, which again, they still had 9 years to do them, and still only delivered about 300 fully polished models and even with such a low number, they fail to give us a fully fledges campaign on a AAA title on it's launch day.

Why was this? Because they focused too much on unnecessary things that almost no one cares about.

VGTs... Music Rally... Over the top photo mode features...

First things first.
Actually the Gr. 3 Porsche 911 RSR is the GTE/GTLM version of the car, not GT3. Likewise, the Corvette and the Z4 Gr. 3 are real cars too, but also the GTE/GTLM version (the Z4 GTE/GTLM looks like a wide body modification of the GT3 version, and is actually the one in the game).
The Aston Martin DB9 and McLaren F1 GT-R have a real counterpart, being GT1 cars and BMW M3 was a GT2 car, considering the proper classes at the time.
The Ford GT LM is something harder to define, having a GT1, a GT2 and two GT3 versions which are pretty similar between them, not really sure what version it relates if any in particular.

Also there are more real GT3:
Audi R8 (the most produced GT3 model ever)
BMW M6
Honda NSX
Lamborghini Huracan
Lexus RC-F

There was a Mustang GT3 which only had a Belgium homologation but can't be related to the one in GT, as they are pretty different.
The Supra will be a GT3, but was not properly homologated at the time it was introduced in GT Sport.

In Gr. 4 there are a bunch of real world racing cars:
Aston Martin Vantage (GT4)
Audi TT (GT4)
BMW M4 (GT4)
Porsche Cayman (GT4)
Renault Megane Trophy (one make series)
Toyota GT86 (GT4)

There are GT4 versions of Mustang and F-Type that aren't similar to the ones in the game.

My bad about this. I was strictly talking about GT3 cars (but even on these I was wrong on some).

The Corvette in this game has the wrong name and livery... It's not the actual real GT3 car, the C7R. The Mustang, all olf them in this game are also body kits and make-up liveries that PD made, not the actual cars themselves.

 

[mwoodski]

The Corvette in this game has the wrong name and livery... It's not the actual real GT3 car, the C7R. The Mustang, all olf them in this game are also body kits and make-up liveries that PD made, not the actual cars themselves.

They'd need the Callaway license to put the real Corvette GT3-R into the game. It wasn't an official Chevrolet/GM project but handled privately by Callaway Cars.

The C7.R was a GTE class car.

 

[Nuschel01]

Gr. cars that we can make ourselves in the tuning shops

Please enlighten me how to get rid of road car interiors at GTauto

 

[TFSI400]

I mean which part of the "game" having you starting in the back of an entire field 40 secs behind the lead car and it expect you to gain 10 secs a lap on the entire field to win a 5 lap race is real? Until PD get rid of these Pole Position "racing" mechanic from the Atari era, using the word realism is bit of exaggeration. Been playing this game since GT1 in the 90's and love the game, just need to take it for what it is. It's a power fantasy of owning and driving cars that most people have no chance to do in real life.

What kind of argument is that?!

That because there’s also unrealistic rubberbanding in the game, it somehow justifies the inclusion of unrealistic VGT cars?

No. It doesn’t work like that.

The rubberbanding is a completely different issue. At no point did I infer that VGT cars were the only thing ruining any sense of realism that PD strives for. It’s one of a few things. It’s ok to discuss one issue without having to bring another into the equation. Especially when the other issue doesn’t even belong in the same room.

Of course, proper grid starts like the old days (and yes, I was there at the start with GT1 as well) would be great. But that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion and has absolutely no bearing on the argument against VGT cars.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Please enlighten me how to get rid of road car interiors at GTauto

>You...

The point...

Yeah, doesn't seem to be connected.

 

[Chrome_PuPXD]

Wow, reading comprehension much?

Who the f* talked about car types? I don't mind any car type in this game at all (aside from SUVs but at least those exist and, unfortunately, do have a large fanbase to appeal to).

How are concept cars not a car type? It seems it is you who struggles with reading comprehension as most of you replies boil down to 'you said this, so you must believe in this ridiculous thing when I extend that argument' which is a really poor way of debating anything...

Of course you are free to waste your energy inconsequentially arguing about this, I think the rest of us have just accepted it and moved on at this point.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I like them as a curiosity. I hate them in the races. IF they are off in their own category and never mixed with the road cars or race cars, then I don't mind.

It's the biggest issue I have with the GR1 cars (and some GR3 cars). It has always pulled me out of the experience.

Vision specific events are fine.

 

[SidsCycleShop]

I've got mixed feelings. On one hand, it seems fitting to drive fantasy cars on fantasy tracks. Why not?

On the other hand, I prefer racing real-life cars on real-life tracks. To drive a vintage race car at the track where its legend was written - things I will never do IRL - is one of the best parts of GT. Ditto with driving a lusted-after street car on a street circuit.

And if we got rid of the VGT cars, would we toss out the RedBull X cars as well?

I don't mind the inclusion of real prototypes and running concept cars (and there have been some cool ones in previous games) but there's something that bugs me about a purely digital model.

 

[Confus]

It's not much about that. Some cars are pretty fun to drive, but that's not the point.

The point is, the resources that PD has already wasted on those VGT cars, could've been used for Real Life cars, which is what everyone wants.

No one, I repeat, no one wants VGT cars over Real Life cars. No one. There can be people who like VGT cars but if there is such a person who prefers that the focus be on VGTs, than they are not playing the right game.

The plehora of real life cars they could've easily already put into the game. Even Japanese cars such as:

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution from I to IX
Mitsubishi FTO
Toyota MR-2
Lexus LFA (it's really shocking this car isn't in the game already when it was a premium in GT5/GT6 and is an iconic japanese car)
Suzuki Escudo
Japanese Kei cars

?? I personally love most of the VGT cars. I've owned almost all of them at this point, and the Subaru one is a personal favorite, even among actual production cars. You're blowing this way out of proportion. VGTs only make up a small percentage of the car list. The vast majority of the car list are cars you can actually buy in real life, and that list will continue to grow with every car pack PD eventually releases. You make it sound as if these things make up the bulk of the game.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

?? I personally love most of the VGT cars. I've owned almost all of them at this point, and the Subaru one is a personal favorite, even among actual production cars. You're blowing this way out of proportion. VGTs only make up a small percentage of the car list. The vast majority of the car list are cars you can actually buy in real life, and that list will continue to grow with every car pack PD eventually releases. You make it sound as if these things make up the bulk of the game.

10% is not a small percentage. Just focus on real cars and screw the fantasy cars... The licenses they have to so many brands and with their resources, it's what they should do.

As a long time fan of this franchise, I'm astonished at how many casuals we have playing this game.

 

[Lomic]

As a long time fan of this franchise, I'm astonished at how many casuals we have playing this game.

That's not very kind to say, and I view myself as a casual player.

And if there was not a large casual player base, there would not be any GT game.

Yet I don't like VGTs which in some cases constitute an important part of availables cars for some brands, while other interesting cars of said brands are not in the game. One VGT for a brand that offers already a variety of other cars, ok, but some have only one model and it is a VGT. Or they have multiple VGTs and few real models or even less.

 

[Peter.]

10% is not a small percentage. Just focus on real cars and screw the fantasy cars... The licenses they have to so many brands and with their resources, it's what they should do.

As a long time fan of this franchise, I'm astonished at how many casuals we have playing this game.

Hi, long time fan of the franchise here. I have never missed a GT game, including the PSP version. I like the VGT's. Am I a casual?

We are doing a lot of assumptions here that Polyphony are doing most of the heavy lifting in designing these cars. Their inclusion in the game are probably a lot less time consuming than all the licensing and real life scanning and recording that goes into bringing in real production cars. As someone said, they are not just a small percentage of cars in GT7, but are also very minimally altered from the last game to a point where getting mad about it doesn't really make sense.

Gran Turismo has been a breakthrough in bringing concept cars into the virtual world since the very beginning with the Dodge Copperhead. It's always been like that, and now with times changing and a digital footprint being more important than ever to automakers and the industry as a whole, we get upset at GT still being the leader in providing this platform because they're unrealistic? Childish? Casual?

I agree that their performance ratings are sometimes poorly calibrated, which makes some of them overpowered in competitive play. Your real enemy in this case would be BoP and the PP system. But they have their place in the game.

I am not even too against them being classified in the respective groups Gr1-4. It's not like there are that many manufacturers putting out LMP1 cars anyway, as an example, but hey, maybe you like a particular manufacturer? There's a bunch of Gr.3 and 4 cars that aren't real, but we'd have a lot less manufacturers to choose from if PD chose absolute realism over some completely harmless charm and diversity.

At the end of the day, the game gives you the option to simply never drive them and let people enjoy things.

 

[Kinna39]

I don't like the cars personally but to each their own.

They SHOULD be their own class of cars though for sure. Don't like seeing them considered 'road cars' or shoe-horned in to Gr.3...

 

[Confus]

10% is not a small percentage. Just focus on real cars and screw the fantasy cars... The licenses they have to so many brands and with their resources, it's what they should do.

As a long time fan of this franchise, I'm astonished at how many casuals we have playing this game.

And they are modeling and adding a lot of real cars. You have no argument. I do not like Volkswagens, but I’m not going to argue that PD shouldn’t include them because I personally don’t like them. If your argument was that the VGT cars make online play inbalanced then I could see your point. But that would still not be a reason to not include them in the game.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

And they are modeling and adding a lot of real cars. You have no argument. I do not like Volkswagens, but I’m not going to argue that PD shouldn’t include them because I personally don’t like them. If your argument was that the VGT cars make online play inbalanced then I could see your point. But that would still not be a reason to not include them in the game.

No... They are not.

They've modeled about 308 real cars into the game in the space of 9 years. Missing out on some iconic cars that should've been in the game already, even back in Sport.
The game was released in 2022 with only 8... EIGHT real cars that are 2020+.

Still can't take you seriously with the way you are defending VGTs. They have no business taking away time and resources from real life cars to be in this game.
10% of the car roster being VGTs, and over 25% of all the cars in the game being fictional cars that were just added bodykits in their base models. No excuse, 9 years, my friend. I was once a huge advocate of Gran Turismo, to the point people would call me a fanboy, but the disappointments just keep on piling up. This game pretty much being the last draw, just no defence possible aside from some of it's mechanical gameplays.
But hey, at least those Gr. cars aren't imbalanced and are cars that can exist and be tuned to be how they are (aside from the fake Gr.1 VGTs).
And in fact, there was already a case in online gameplay where one VGT was dominating the lobbies because it was "escaping" from it's restrictions. People were not happy with that, with good reason. We have a field of R32s, Supras, NSXs and the like, and then we have a fictional all futuristic car like the Peugeot L500R in there mixed up ruining everything... It's just... no man. Just no.


They can be in the game. Just not in the absurdly high numbers they are right now, and for the 10th time, and to take away time from focusing on the real life models.

PS: I'm a guy btw.

 

[Chrome_PuPXD]

As a long time fan of this franchise, I'm astonished at how many casuals we have playing this game.

Must be a casual because they have a different opinion to you, right?

 

[Nuschel01]

and over 25% of all the cars in the game being fictional cars that were just added bodykits in their base models.

This won't get more true the more you repeat it
Get a grip

 

[tonystarks131]

It’s such a bizarre take to argue that a certain car shouldn’t be in a racing game. Like if it causes you such grief don’t drive it.

I don't drive them. I also don't want to race against them, especially with the limitations in the custom races menu. They need to be in a class of their own, not racing against Group C cars. As it stands, they ruin most races by being overpowered.

There should be an option to exclude the VGT cars from the custom race menu.

 

[SuperSportX]

I'm no fan of mixing fantasy cars with real ones, but like others have said, I mostly just wish they were segregated better. I liked the way it was done in Gran Turismo 2, where concept and race cars were in their own "Special" section of a brand's dealership.

As far as race versions of production cars are concerned, I don't mind them as much, though it's weird to me when no stock version is available. For instance, the VW dealer in GT7 has a race version of the recent Beetle model, but no street version.

Bolded is really my only issue with the VGT/Gr. cars. If they were able to make a fantasy racecar of an actual car that exists they can almost definitely model the real road legal variant aswell.