Unpopular Opinions - General Thread

[W3H5]

It’s not that I disagree with the message that black lives matter, but as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, there are far greater injustices being done in the world that those from police towards African Americans, hence my initial statement. I know this isn’t the place for a debate on such things so I’ll leave it there.

 

[Liquid]

Save the whales!
"Um, actually, save all marine life."

The grammar behind BLM has been discussed elseshere. It's implicit that black lives matter in conjunction with others but that's not snappy enough. It's missing something like "Black Lives Matter Too" in order to clarify the point. Too much time has probably passed to effectively rename it.

 

[BobK]

Save the whales!
"Um, actually, save all marine life."

But but but... Lobster, shrimp, tuna, cod, haddock, etc, etc are all mighty tasty.

 

[MatskiMonk]

FWIW I agree with Shem. I've no problem in the idea of Black Lives Matter, but I noticed on my Twitter feed how often the sentiment of silence is violence/compliance was thrown around, often in conjunction with MLK's quote about white moderates being worse than the KKK, and to me it just seems quite hypocritical. I know if I say All lives matter, it'll come across as white-folk-supremacy, I suppose the assumption is that I'm saying "Hey, my privileged white guy that doesn't face much adversity life matters too". and I can imagine a black African American feeling like I'm a bit of git for saying it... but I'd be curious to see their reaction to someone whose family has been subjected to government instructed, army enforced, systemic ethnic cleansing and genocide saying All lives matter.

The fact is we can't all support all causes, it's just not reasonable.

 

[W3H5]

Save the whales!
"Um, actually, save all marine life."

The grammar behind BLM has been discussed elseshere. It's implicit that black lives matter in conjunction with others but that's not snappy enough. It's missing something like "Black Lives Matter Too" in order to clarify the point. Too much time has probably passed to effectively rename it.

I agree that black lives matter, but I disagree with Black Lives Matter. In fact, it irritates me that the phrase and the political movement are so interlinked, so that saying “Black lives matter” pretty much states the support of the group, despite me completely being opposed to most of their left-wing socialist ideals.

 

[W3H5]

but I'd be curious to see their reaction to someone whose family has been subjected to government instructed, army enforced, systemic ethnic cleansing and genocide saying All lives matter.

I’d message and ask some of my old Uyghur acquaintances from northwestern China but I don’t think they have WiFi in their “re-education camps”. That’s if they’re still alive.

 

[Joey D]

It’s not that I disagree with the message that black lives matter, but as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, there are far greater injustices being done in the world that those from police towards African Americans, hence my initial statement. I know this isn’t the place for a debate on such things so I’ll leave it there.

There are plenty of injustices in the world, but having government agents violating the rights of citizens is a pretty big injustice in America. Due process is one of our founding principals and when you have police playing judge, jury, and executioner it's a big problem.

I have no idea what it's truly like in other parts of the world, but I also suspect you have no idea what it's like the in US. You can say there are other injustices, but when it comes to America we are dealing with a pretty major injustice right now. Even our president is incredibly guilty of it and people still support him.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I’d message and ask some of my old Uyghur acquaintances from northwestern China but I don’t think they have WiFi in their “re-education camps”. That’s if they’re still alive.

Well, so long as the million or so people imprisoned without reason are aware that a white guy with a badge murdered an unarmed black man in Minnesota, and are suitably outraged, that's the main thing.

 

[TexRex]

It’s not that I disagree with the message that black lives matter, but as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, there are far greater injustices being done in the world that those from police towards African Americans, hence my initial statement.

"Stop complaining about that thing and complain about this thing instead."

...

As I said elsewhere, it isn't your place to determine what issues other people take up and them actively taking up one issue but not another isn't an indication that they don't care about another, either individually or as a supposed collective.

By all means, grab your gun and knife and go Josh Randall on China; I'll root you on provided it isn't an indiscriminate massacre and actually addresses that particular issue.* Complaining on an internet forum about people who are critical of issues much closer to home doesn't do **** for that cause.

*Edit: To be clear, this isn't intended to incite violence. It's actually deliberately absurd.

 

[W3H5]

but I also suspect you have no idea what it's like the in US

Very true from a first hand perspective. I’d say I have a rough idea from the years I’ve spent with Americans and what I’ve read, but I know that isn’t the same.

But this is bigger than the US now and I’d affecting countries (like the UK) where these injustices simply don’t exist.

"Stop complaining about that thing and complain about this thing instead."

I’m not asking anyone to stop complaining, just pointing out what I feel is molehill that’s labelled as a mountain, in the wider scheme of things.

*Edit: To be clear, this isn't intended to incite violence. It's actually deliberately absurd.

But violence is my favourite form of protest.

 

[MatskiMonk]

it isn't your place to determine what issues other people take up and them actively taking up one issue but not another isn't an indication that they don't care about another, either individually or as a supposed collective

I don't recall being labelled as violent by the supporters of any other cause*...

*Maybe vegans.. but that's a different debate.

 

[TexRex]

I’m not asking anyone to stop complaining, just pointing out what I feel is molehill that’s labelled as a mountain, in the wider scheme of things.

Why must one be concerned with "the wider scheme of things" when there's something of sufficient importance to be concerned with at home? And people who have sworn to protect instead opting to victimize and not be held accountable for their actions is a pretty ****ing big mountain.

I don't recall being labelled as violent by the supporters of any other cause*...

View attachment 932694

*Maybe vegans.. but that's a different debate.

What? No...blue is absolutely a better color than yellow.

 

[MatskiMonk]

What? No...blue is absolutely a better color than yellow.

It's more like, "Yellow is a better colour than blue and if you don't say that, you are part of the problem". I'm not arguing that X is more important than Y, I'm pointing out that supporters of Y are labelling everyone who doesn't actively support their cause as violent or compliant, whilst at the same time not supporting X... or any other letter, themselves.

and them actively taking up one issue but not another isn't an indication that they don't care about another

.. but apparently not taking up their cause makes me violent.

 

[TexRex]

It's more like, "Yellow is a better colour than blue and if you don't say that, you are part of the problem". I'm not arguing that X is more important than Y, I'm pointing out that supporters of Y are labelling everyone who doesn't actively support their cause as violent or compliant, whilst at the same time not supporting X... or any other letter, themselves.



.. but apparently not taking up their cause makes me violent.

Maybe take another look at what you quoted me as having said and consider whether your response to it was actually a response to it or just a strawman. I'd be interested to know what conclusion you come to and how you got there.

Edit to link the relevant post.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'd be interested to know what conclusion you come to and how you got there.

I believe you are smart enough to understand the point being made, so either I don't understand your position on the matter or you don't understand mine.

For clarity, I do not agree with the protestors sentiment that not supporting an issue makes you compliant/violent/part of the problem/worse than the perpetrators of the injustice.

If that logic, their logic, is applied to those placard waving protestors in the image I posted, then they are mostly likely compliant in the rest of the worlds injustices. In this case it makes no practical sense. We cannot all support all issues.

If we take that logic as "not supporting OUR issue makes you compliant/violent/part of the problem/worse than the perpetrators of the injustice", then it's a simple "You're either with us, or against us" play, and perhaps this is the unpopular opinion; I don't like combative plays to manipulate opinions under the fear you'll be branded something you are not.

If this is your genuine sentiment;

it isn't your place to determine what issues other people take up and them actively taking up one issue but not another isn't an indication that they don't care about another

.. then I can only assume that you share a similar opinion.

 

[TexRex]

I believe you are smart enough to understand the point being made, so either I don't understand your position on the matter or you don't understand mine.

For clarity, I do not agree with the protestors sentiment that not supporting an issue makes you compliant/violent/part of the problem/worse than the perpetrators of the injustice.

If that logic, their logic, is applied to those placard waving protestors in the image I posted, then they are mostly likely compliant in the rest of the worlds injustices. In this case it makes no practical sense. We cannot all support all issues.

If we take that logic as "not supporting OUR issue makes you compliant/violent/part of the problem/worse than the perpetrators of the injustice", then it's a simple "You're either with us, or against us" play, and perhaps this is the unpopular opinion; I don't like combative plays to manipulate opinions under the fear you'll be branded something you are not.

If this is your genuine sentiment;



.. then I can only assume that you share a similar opinion.

What the actual ****?!

 

[MatskiMonk]

What the actual ****?!

I don't think I can lay it out any more simply than that. Shall I wait for the edit where you actually clarify your opinion?

 

[TexRex]

I don't think I can lay it out any more simply than that. Shall I wait for the edit where you actually clarify your opinion?

Read the same quoted text again, but first cock your head to the side and give it a few knocks to clear a bit of the stupid out.

That was unnecessarily abrasive, and I apologize.

 

[MatskiMonk]

That was unnecessarily abrasive, and I apologize.

No worries, but I'd rather a useful explanation of your stance that an apology, to be honest.

 

[TexRex]

I believe you are smart enough to understand the point being made, so either I don't understand your position on the matter or you don't understand mine.

I'm thinking you don't understand mine.

For clarity, I do not agree with the protestors sentiment that not supporting an issue makes you compliant/violent/part of the problem/worse than the perpetrators of the injustice.

I don't either. Somehow whiteness has been injected as well, and that strikes me as racist. Yes, some of the people holding those signs appear to be white. Go figure.

If that logic, their logic, is applied to those placard waving protestors in the image I posted, then they are mostly likely compliant in the rest of the worlds injustices. In this case it makes no practical sense.

Thing is...the image I posted in no way reflects what I said. The posting of that image as a response to what I said strikes me as a strawman argument.

If we take that logic as "not supporting OUR issue makes you compliant/violent/part of the problem/worse than the perpetrators of the injustice", then it's a simple "You're either with us, or against us" play, and perhaps this is the unpopular opinion; I don't like combative plays to manipulate opinions under the fear you'll be branded something you are not.

I don't either. Unfortunately it's entirely too common a tactic. Note that I didn't employ it in the portion of text that you quoted me as having said. I didn't actually employ it in any part of that post.

If this is your genuine sentiment;

.. then I can only assume that you share a similar opinion.

The two are unrelated.

Taking up one cause that concerns you doesn't mean that other causes don't. They may actually not, but it's not inherent.

The user I quoted took this line in the relevant thread, I believe, as a means to deflect from the topic at hand. The topic is police brutality. Other means of deflection the user I quoted included citing the number of people killed by cops, broken down by race (mind you cops killing people isn't itself indicative of police brutality) and past crimes perpetrated by a victim of police brutality, crimes for which the perpetrator was convicted, sentenced and served time.

I suspect that this user observed that these tactics didn't fly in the relevant thread and has opted to employ them here with the hope of a different result.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be critical of the manner in which the Chinese government is treating Uighur Muslims in the country. China wields power in a manner that I find wholly abhorrent. But people get to choose the issues they actively take up, and those issues are much more likely to hit closer to home.

 

[W3H5]

The user I quoted took this line in the relevant thread, I believe, as a means to deflect from the topic at hand. The topic is police brutality.

Then I fail to see the point of British or Australian people causing such a fuss over it, as the British police are soft a puppy poop when it comes to dealing with non-whites for fear of being labelled racist.

I suspect that this user observed that these tactics didn't fly in the relevant thread and has opted to employ them here with the hope of a different result.

I don't think I had an intended result, other than to point out the hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness of the BLM movement.

But people get to choose the issues they actively take up, and those issues are much more likely to hit closer to home.

UK Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs targeting mostly white girls (minors) for a form of sexual slavery is pretty close to home for me and tens of thousands of British families who have suffered because the local police forces involved in dealing with it fail to act out of fear of being labelled racist, so they sweep it under the rug essentially allowing it to continue unchecked for decades... Where are the outraged mobs descending on Central London up in arms about that?

No, wait, they want to protest on behalf of BLM (that's their choice, of course), trying to address an issue which is problematic on the other side of the world and almost completely unrelatable at home in the UK, causing massive racial divides and tensions in the process.

I know that there's a difference between the countries, but as the protests are united in their cause, I feel like the situation in cities outside of America is relevant to the topic.

That's before the mention of the mainstream media and plenty of major institutions promoting the BLM cause with a heavy bias, all the while labelling any opponents or non-supporters as "far-right" or racist to try to silence and shut them down.

 

[TexRex]

Then I fail to see the point of British or Australian people causing such a fuss over it, as the British police are soft a puppy poop when it comes to dealing with non-whites for fear of being labelled racist.

Then base your argument on that. I don't believe it one bit, but at least it's somewhat relevant.

That wasn't the argument you made with me in the other thread, however. Here's your response to me:

Don't know if sarcasm or not but will address the issue; genocide - apparenty not worth protesting. Meth head armed robber that theathened a pregnant woman with a gun to her abdomen (yeah, the facts are coming out now), killed unlawfuly by police; let's raid for all it's worth. ****ing scum. Nobody deserves to die, but some people make live hard for themsleves.
Protest by all the freedoms given to you by your consitution. But when you enage in anarchy and ignore the rule of law you deserve what's coming, no matter your skin colour.

Don't get me started on China. Y'all want to fight for rights and freedom (ah bless)? Hit up the Chinese Embassy, or go one further and address the actual slavery the still exists in the Middle East, Asia and other thrid world nations because you won't find it in the modern western world, you ****ing hypocrits.

Note that you're barely into it when you blame the victim, citing a crime for which he'd already been charged, convicted and gone to prison.

Of course, that's after you suggest that people don't care about genocide and before you conflate wanton violence and destruction with peaceful protest. Then you cap it off by telling people that the issue that they've taken up isn't worth taking up because there are issues of greater concern. Aaaaand you allege hypocrisy.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Then I fail to see the point of British or Australian people causing such a fuss over it, as the British police are soft a puppy poop when it comes to dealing with non-whites for fear of being labelled racist.



I don't think I had an intended result, other than to point out the hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness of the BLM movement.



UK Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs targeting mostly white girls (minors) for a form of sexual slavery is pretty close to home for me and tens of thousands of British families who have suffered because the local police forces involved in dealing with it fail to act out of fear of being labelled racist, so they sweep it under the rug essentially allowing it to continue unchecked for decades... Where are the outraged mobs descending on Central London up in arms about that?

No, wait, they want to protest on behalf of BLM (that's their choice, of course), trying to address an issue which is problematic on the other side of the world and almost completely unrelatable at home in the UK, causing massive racial divides and tensions in the process.

I know that there's a difference between the countries, but as the protests are united in their cause, I feel like the situation in cities outside of America is relevant to the topic.

That's before the mention of the mainstream media and plenty of major institutions promoting the BLM cause with a heavy bias, all the while labelling any opponents or non-supporters as "far-right" or racist to try to silence and shut them down.

Then base your argument on that. I don't believe it one bit, but at least it's somewhat relevant.

That wasn't the argument you made with me in the other thread, however. Here's your response to me:


Note that you're barely into it when you blame the victim, citing a crime for which he'd already been charged, convicted and gone to prison.

Of course, that's after you suggest that people don't care about genocide and before you conflate wanton violence and destruction with peaceful protest. Then you cap it off by telling people that the issue that they've taken up isn't worth taking up because there are issues of greater concern. Aaaaand you allege hypocrisy.

Look guys just agree to disagree. You're just going around in circles at this point.

 

[TexRex]

Look guys just agree to disagree. You're just going around in circles at this point.

I wager it's about done anyway. He didn't bother to continue when I originally responded to what I quoted above. It's the way things go when you're more interested in deflection than discussion.

 

[Pupik]

There's a major alignment problem with All Lives Matter as a movement; that it's being used to wash out injustices and tribulations is why it needs to be quashed as a chant, but respected as a concept because...no joke, everything matters. But if everyone you know isn't suffering, or have a narrow viewpoint on the issues' there's no reason to drown out others be because you have a scratch to itch versus a serious injury.

It can be summed up as this:

I get it, China and many other counties are well nigh oppressive. It's the kind of thing that makes me thankful to be here, warts and all. Seeing what happened on TV in Tienanmen Square when I was a teen was an eye-opener of an experience. You realized that it was mostly easy living in America, even if in society's margins. But that's the problem...if it's not the picture-perfect scene painted by those who have no sense of oppression, then maybe it's not the envisioned utopia, and it needs adjustment.

Comparing the right to not be killed in a traffic stop or other minor crime to the waves of genocide in other parts of the world is missing the wood from the trees. Even at a minimum, respecting life for those oppressed shouldn't be too hard; trying to make them thankful they weren't shipped off to death sooner is awfully callous. Especially when some people are earnestly trying to undo four centuries of oppressive tactics.

 

[Liquid]

I'm sure this has been said before but vanilla is a fantastic flavour, rich in taste and aroma, and the word does not deserve its reputation as a synonym for plain or boring.

 

[polysmut]

I'm sure this has been said before but vanilla is a fantastic flavour, rich in taste and aroma, and the word does not deserve its reputation as a synonym for plain or boring.

Absolutely.

On a similar note, people round our way used to say 'plain' to mean vanilla when discussing ice cream and 'plain' to mean ready salted when discussing crisps. There are plain versions of those things available which taste very different from vanilla flavoured or from ready salted.

 

[TexRex]

Yeah, "vanilla" truly is not synonymous with "mundane."

Vanilla is so good that it makes chocolate better. Seriously. It's a common component in inexpensive chocolates because they tend to skew bitter and its addition does more to tame that than sugar alone. Adding vanilla to chocolate confections, even when quality chocolate is used, also helps to make the chocolate component pop and taste more of itself than if you leave vanilla out.

 

[Driving Park]

Kellogg's brand Pop Tarts are overrated.

The generic store brands are much better IMHO. During this pandemic I suddenly got the urge to start eating pop tarts again for the first time in 7 or 8 years. Publix had their own brand (which I usually get) but I also got a box of Kellogg's frosted. I prefer blueberry and unfrosted but I thought I would try the frosted to see if it was all that. First off there's not that much frosting on them, there's not as much filling in them as the generic ones, the top third of one of them broke off and fell down in the toaster.

Just to get a fair comparison I also bought a box of Kellogg's unfrosted and to me it's just like the frosted ones, not as much filling, brittle in a toaster. So for me Kellogg's Pop Tarts, not impressed.

I'm bringing this back from 4 months ago because I must discuss Pop-Tarts at length whenever given the opportunity.

Current Pop-Tarts suck. Sometimes a little, mostly a lot. Often stale. Actually ALWAYS stale, in my experience. I stopped eating Pop-Tarts because I could never find a box that wasn't stale from the moment it was opened, including in different stores and even totally different parts of the country. Not to mention there are barely any good flavors anymore. There's not really any reason to buy them.

Many years ago things were very different. There were a bunch of incredible flavors, all always fresh. Apple Cinnamon, the original Wild Berry, Watermelon, Wild Tropical Blast, Wild Magicburst, and so on. Nothing could compete! And going even further back (before the boxes became blue) there was a Grape flavor that was to die for. But that golden age was already long gone a decade ago. Nowadays I would agree...look elsewhere. Nature's Path makes some excellent organic Pop-Tart-style pastries!

Anyway, since I'm here now, here are some of my unpopulars:

- Putting milk in cereal is disgusting. Dry is the way God intended.
- There are only three types of food in the world that I don't like (so far)...ice cream, mashed potatoes, and peanut butter.
- All hard liquor is disgusting.
- IPAs are the worst kind of beer by a country mile.
- Los Angeles traffic isn't as bad as everyone says it is. Driving in Chicago or DC is way worse.

 

[TexRex]

- Putting milk in cereal is disgusting. Dry is the way God intended.

Mine requires a blood offering lest the crops fail.