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- johnwells69
Wed 20:30-21:30 UK Time - CLOSED - Suspended until further noticePS4
- Thread starter Sick Cylinder
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Yeah, I've always rated the Top Gear/Grand Tour historic film content.
Another documentary I've always rated is this one on Sir Stirling Moss with Sir Patrick Stewart. You'd think he'd be an odd presenter but he's proper into his cars and both give great insight into the cars and into Moss himself.
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- Whitehaven Cumbria Englan
- johnwells69
- 577
- Lisbon
- Tavilha
So much blood and gore!...
Does anyone know what the deal is about the protruding body work over the left hand exhaust?
Why isn’t there anything above the right hand pipes?
Edit: On the Ferrari!
I presume it’s to do with the fuel filler cap being that side and to stop fires with fuel splashing onto the hot exhaust? But wouldn’t the body work above the pipe get just as hot??? Seems a weird thing to have?
Why isn’t there anything above the right hand pipes?
Edit: On the Ferrari!
I presume it’s to do with the fuel filler cap being that side and to stop fires with fuel splashing onto the hot exhaust? But wouldn’t the body work above the pipe get just as hot??? Seems a weird thing to have?
- 3,277
- Whitehaven Cumbria Englan
- johnwells69
So much blood and gore!...
They were quite bad crashes those Tav, least we walked away unhurt. In the Jim Clark, said how many drivers had been killed, still got watch the rest. Quite bad the safety wouldn't come into 70s really. Been reading a book, 60 years of MotoGP, it shows how dangerous the sport was, 49, 50, 60s and into the 70s. Some riders would quit, because of the, safety, too swap to 4 wheels and get killed.
When classic cars race now Sick, have they been updated, so there more stronger in accident?
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They are exactly the same in many cases John, although some of the GT cars will have improved harnesses and roll cages. Sorry for interjecting, you question just reminded me of this video I saw the other day from the Goodwood Revival in 2000.
- 5,284
- Sick_Cylinder
@John Wells - the Historic racers are normally almost as unsafe today as they used to be. As @rj5992 said they might have improved harnesses and roll cages. They will have electrical cutoffs, fire extinguishers, towing points and safer fuel tanks to meet modern requirements, but some would be very dangerous in a major accident. I saw a Cooper Monaco (circa 1960)with the body off - the feet are well ahead of the tyres with no protection at all. Stirling Moss very rarely had accidents, but his strategy and that of many drivers from the time - if an accident was inevitable - was to spin the car to scrub off speed and go into the accident rear end first (no seat belts). Masten Gregory (the great American Racer) used to crash forwards, but start climbing out of the car just before the moment of impact - his idea was to be thrown clear rather than be trapped and burnt. Although these bailouts normally resulted in injury, they probably saved his life a couple of times.
I think your comment is spot on! I looked at a lot of pictures of Ferrari 250 GT's - the road going ones had bumpers and no heat shield. 45 lightweight models called the 250 GT SWB Berlinetta Competizione were made - these didn't have bumpers, but did have a heat shield - normally this was body colour, but I have seen one that was polished bare metal.
Fires were quite common - especially during refuelling when petrol vapour could come in contact with a hot exhaust. On single seaters the exhaust was often closer to the filler cap - the pit crew of a top team would cover the exhaust with a piece of thick cloth while the fuel was poured.
I think your comment is spot on! I looked at a lot of pictures of Ferrari 250 GT's - the road going ones had bumpers and no heat shield. 45 lightweight models called the 250 GT SWB Berlinetta Competizione were made - these didn't have bumpers, but did have a heat shield - normally this was body colour, but I have seen one that was polished bare metal.
Fires were quite common - especially during refuelling when petrol vapour could come in contact with a hot exhaust. On single seaters the exhaust was often closer to the filler cap - the pit crew of a top team would cover the exhaust with a piece of thick cloth while the fuel was poured.
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A bit of morning tea break viewing if anyone is interested. Fantastic battle throughout in this Weslake cup race, up until the red flag. All cars are using the same Austin A series engine (the ohv version being designed by Harry Weslake). It's amazing how that little yellow Healey Sebring Sprite dances around compared to the grippier Lenham. Looks like tremendous fun!
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Come to think of it, if you're still stuck for championship ideas @Sick Cylinder then maybe a Goodwood Members Meeting championship might work.
One track over the course of the championship (maybe Oulton Park Fosters might best emulate Goodwood?).
Different car classes each week... Possibly drawing from the best/most fun cars we've raced in previous championships.
Drivers are split up into the 4 houses (Torbolton, Methuen, Darnley and Aubigny) to compete for the overall house win.
Don't mean to intrude on your decision making process, I've just really been enjoying the team aspect of it all and thought it would be another good way of including it.
One track over the course of the championship (maybe Oulton Park Fosters might best emulate Goodwood?).
Different car classes each week... Possibly drawing from the best/most fun cars we've raced in previous championships.
Drivers are split up into the 4 houses (Torbolton, Methuen, Darnley and Aubigny) to compete for the overall house win.
Don't mean to intrude on your decision making process, I've just really been enjoying the team aspect of it all and thought it would be another good way of including it.
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joedakiss
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- joedakiss
On one Goodwood visit a couple of years ago I arrived to find the aftermath of this freak crash about 15 minutes after it happened. Anyone who knows Goodwood will probably realise where the car ended up – wedged into the entrance of the main spectator tunnel, with its nose pointing skyward. Somehow the driver walked away unhurt, but the bigger miracle was that it didn't crush any spectators (me and the Mrs included!) – that tunnel is usually packed and it was only because this was in the first race of the day, which started at about 8:30 before most spectators arrived, that it didn't end in a tragedy that could have threatened historic motorsport in the UK. Note the errant wheel, which landed in the disabled viewing area! An iron roof has since been installed on the tunnel entrance.
I'm a huge fan of the Goodwood circuit, and had been meaning to get around to writing a post in the PC3 suggestions thread that basically said everything your recent post said! I reckon you're probably right about the cost of the rights being eyewatering – hence PD making such a fanfare when it included the Hillclimb circuit in GT5 – but it would be a great addition to PC, especially since it's barely changed since the 60s.
Personally I'm not keen on the one track for a whole championship idea though – one of the things I love about Sick's series is that it takes us to tracks I'd probably never get chance / think to try out otherwise. I think one track would become too repetitive, even if we did all end up mastering it!
I have really enjoyed the team aspect of it though. Maybe we could incorporate Goodwood's house-style points system that rolls over the whole season? Food for thought @Sick Cylinder...
See you all in Italy tonight, looking forward to it
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Yeah, I get what you mean with that. I know Sick has planned for at least the next year so I figured we would have hit nearly all of the circuits by then. I did think about the repetitiveness as well and wondered if having to drive a new car each week would be enough variety.
That crash was crazy! The way the drivers head was flying about with each cartwheel it's amazing he was unhurt!
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- IfAndOr
Some of the circuits have multiple layouts though, many of which we never use. It would be interesting to simulate a meeting(s) using some of the shorter layouts with slower cars (Monday) and then use the longer ones with faster cars (Wednesday).
Yes that was one lucky driver. And fans.
Yes that was one lucky driver. And fans.
- 5,284
- Sick_Cylinder
Note 1: Red points for Beachboy's team were scored by Simblora.
Note 2: @Harsk100 is suspended from the next Wednesday round at Historic Spa for excessive contact (he will be able to race on Monday, which is the final round of that championship).
Note 3: Everyone please take more care in qualifying - there is 20 minutes available which should be enough for you to sometimes abort laps for slower cars or give way for faster cars from time to time. The last few races I have lost a lot of time in the pits repairing damage after being hit. There is no need to rush on the out lap - people should be finding space!
The Race - I was ahead of Nurvus until the first pit stop. Although I didn't have damage the game gave him a quicker stop. I did not have the speed or skill to get past, but occasionally got close if he made a small error. He was able to pull away by being more courageous / skilled with the back markers. Unfortunately with a lap to go I missed my braking marker while passing a slower car, picked up damage and lost a lot of time. I was passed at the line by @Oldbass47 but as he had missed a pit stop I got my place back. Oldbass47 has been awarded points for the lowest finishing Lotus 40 which is the same penalty applied when @joedakiss missed a stop.
There have been quite a few interesting comments made in the thread since the previous meeting - I will refer to these in a subsequent post.
Next round is at Historic Spa.
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- IfAndOr
In your absence captain @Tavilha I did what I could. I do like your Lotus, you left it setup just nicely. I didn't even have to adjust the seat. The pressures on now for 3 wins with it though!
Sick did gud to.
I hope you're feeling better?
Team Foyt was/are a few members short.
Sick did gud to.
I hope you're feeling better?
Team Foyt was/are a few members short.
Indeed. It took me 5 laps to find a relatively clear run. Patience is virtue so they say.
Which point would you like to define as the race start? Perhaps let the rear of the field clear Eau Rouge?
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- Whitehaven Cumbria Englan
- johnwells69
- 577
- Lisbon
- Tavilha
In your absence captain @Tavilha I did what I could. I do like your Lotus, you left it setup just nicely. I didn't even have to adjust the seat. The pressures on now for 3 wins with it though!
Sick did gud to.
I hope you're feeling better?
Team Foyt was/are a few members short.
Indeed. It took me 5 laps to find a relatively clear run. Patience is virtue so they say.
Which point would you like to define as the race start? Perhaps let the rear of the field clear Eau Rouge?
You're doing great! I'm fit again and will join the team tonight! Getting some practice as I post, to try and meet your set standards
- 5,284
- Sick_Cylinder
Weather settings for Wednesday 6th March at Spa
Time Progression = X5
Weather Slots = 4: Hazy / Fog / Hazy / Hazy
Weather Progression = X15
These settings give a good, natural feel - when you come to a fog patch you will be through it fairly promptly so it simulates patchy fog quite well.
Note the settings for today are less foggy than we used on Monday - the patches should be quite light and more appropriate to the faster cars being used.
PS - Apologies to all for late notification.
Time Progression = X5
Weather Slots = 4: Hazy / Fog / Hazy / Hazy
Weather Progression = X15
These settings give a good, natural feel - when you come to a fog patch you will be through it fairly promptly so it simulates patchy fog quite well.
Note the settings for today are less foggy than we used on Monday - the patches should be quite light and more appropriate to the faster cars being used.
PS - Apologies to all for late notification.
- 3,277
- Whitehaven Cumbria Englan
- johnwells69
Sorry Lancer, everyone, that was behind, crashed in to me, ruined your race there.
- 5,284
- Sick_Cylinder
Marvellous! I've seen that clip a few times before, but well worth another view or three! At 2 minutes 10 seconds you can see a scoreboard with a door at the bottom - there used to be a larger one of those at Druid's and one afternoon I was invited to help with the scoring. Inside there were many wooden steps and at the top a series of square openings with runners. There were many blackboards with large numbers printed on them. The giant scoreboard showed the race number of the cars in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th position plus the number of laps completed. The board contained a group of teenage boys each responsible for changing one of the boards over whenever a position in the race changed. I found it difficult to keep track so for the next race I was asked to score the number of laps completed - this was also very difficult as it was difficult to keep track of who was in the lead. At the end of the meeting one of the race drivers embarassed me by remarking that he noticed that I had got the laps wrong - I was amazed that at racing speed he was able to scan the board. I found it difficult to keep up with the race, but the drivers had no trouble in racng and reading the boards!
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That's crazy that they were keeping track whilst racing.
It sounds like a similar kind of affair to the scoreboards at the major cricket grounds. The amount of work that goes on hidden behind scoreboards is crazy.
The big thing that surprised me was the attendance level, but then it hit me... If all you had was 3 minutes of a Pathè film to watch in the cinema to cover a whole 3 hour GP then you'd HAVE to go to the track to watch, or else listen on the radio. It's not surprising that attendance levels have dropped.
- 5,284
- Sick_Cylinder
It's amazing what top level drivers can do (I was only scoring at a club meeting) - Lance Macklin, Mike Hawthorn and Stirling Moss (among others) had a reputation for spotting girls in the crowd. Hawthorn had spotted a girl waving at him from a window during the Monaco Grand Prix - when his car broke down, instead of walking straight back to the pits, he climbed through her window and asked for a glass of water - needless to say it took him a very long time to get back to the pits!
Moss and other top drivers would sometimes listen to the radio if they were in a GT race as the cars were road legal and still contained their radios - Moss even listened to his own races at Goodwood when they were broadcast live and found the commentary useful.
Yesterday's Race - I very much enjoyed the opening laps. I hadn't done any practise, but know Historic Spa quite well, although I am much slower and more cautious than most drivers. It was quite an intense and scary experience racing the Lotus 40 - it felt dangerously fast at times and I kept remembering David Hobbs racing a Mark 1 Ford GT40 at Spa - after his first lap of the track he almost gave up his career as a professional racing driver - he was so awed by the speed of other drivers and the danger of the track!
We Lotus drivers were in quite a tight bunch at first - it would have been very easy to collide and very difficult to pass. I also thought of the great one handed driver Archie Scott Brown who traded paint for lap after lap with Masten Gregory in their Lister Jaguar's before tragically he crashed at the same spot as Richard Seaman (Britain's best GP driver of the 1930's). Sadly they both died of burns after being trapped in their wrecked cars. It really was a track which tolerated no mistakes, but one at which a brave and skilled driver could make up huge amounts of time.
I came in to make my first pit stop cautiously because I wanted to avoid a speeding penalty - the car was in the process of manouvering into position, almost stationary, when it suddenly jumped out of its pit box - I had to exit and pit on the next lap - this process adding 15 seconds. The lap after I was planning my second stop, but towards the end of the lap I lost control of the car and ended upside down - many apologies to @Tavilha who I think had no option, but to hit my car - sorry for spoiling your race.
Congratulations to all the finishers, especially the podium men Nervus, IfAndOr and @ShaunyB
Note - @rj5992 was credited with disconnection points as he tried to enter the race. Harsks Team was credited with Harsks average points for the round (3 in yellow). Beachboys Team was credited with Simba's points (7 in red).
Next Round is at Donington Park and features a car change for some drivers - @Harsk100 @RagingBullLC and @beachboy6658 all switch to the Lotus 40 for the final three rounds and their points will be key to their respective teams.
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- 577
- Lisbon
- Tavilha
I thought I had hit Jocke - I took away the floating player names so now I have to look down to the relative positions to know who's in front and behind - and it seems i saw wrong. That's why I apologised to him instead of you at the end, and didn't understand why you were apologising to me
My race was already a disaster and very lonely, so no harm done. Either way, it wasn't your fault. I'm the one who's sorry for not being able to avoid hitting you.
Ha! @Tavilha , you had everything on show there for the race huh?
I love the game physics sometimes, when the #2 car hits you as you are pulling away from the barrier and your bonnet looks like it’s taking off on a mission into low earth orbit!
I must say i have very much enjoyed racing with you all. You are a good bunch...no one ever seems to get angry or anything. It’s all clean racing and mistakes are forgiven. Top sportsmanship!
I love the game physics sometimes, when the #2 car hits you as you are pulling away from the barrier and your bonnet looks like it’s taking off on a mission into low earth orbit!
I must say i have very much enjoyed racing with you all. You are a good bunch...no one ever seems to get angry or anything. It’s all clean racing and mistakes are forgiven. Top sportsmanship!
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