Weekly Parity Series **Newcomers Wanted**

[Johnnypenso]

Pace, same as usual, every one tune his Camaro where he needs to be to race at the prederteminded pace, only difference with what we usualy do is that every one drive a LM Camaro.

I intend to race tonite, see you all at the lounge at 8H00 Pm EDT

I think that's a great kind of theme, where we all have the same car but can tune it to different specs as needed to hit the target times. I think we should stick with premiums for this, to ensure the car is available to everyone with no risk of someone wanting to join late and not having the car.

 

[mike 5927]

As a potential name for you to consider, R.T.R. Parity Series (Racing Trumps Results).

 

[Cote Dazur]

Racing should definitvely Trumps result. That is the spirit.

Talking about results:

Trial Mountain Oct 22nd

Race 1:
1. Sagarismic
2. Johnnypenso
3. NCemtB
4. Ferraridude308
5. cotedazur06
6. Trackbound

Yes Sag, you went under the target but stayed in the 1.52, when every one else, except Track ( the only on the pace driver for that race), went under 1.52.

Race 2

1. Ferraridude308
2. Sagarismic
3. Trackbound
4. Johnnypenso
5. NCemtB
6. cotedazur06

every one went under 1.52

race 3

1. NCemtB
2. Trackbound
3. Ferraridude308
4. cotedazur06
5. Johnnypenso

all guilty of going under 1.52, except Johnny the only clean one for race 3

Race 4

1. Trackbound
2. cotedazur06
3. NCemtB
4. sagarismic
5. Johnnypenso

All guilty, but every one real close, between 1.52.050 and 1.51.321.

 

[TrackBound7]

Results completely aside, it is important to realize many guys in the pack may have gained speed and dropped their lap time due to the draft.

We haven't had the issue too many times, and when we did we had the driver DQ themselves. Like everything else, progression needs to continue. Perhaps we need to look at a hard rule about what qualifies as a disqualify. It would certainly be difficult to monitor as a single steward, but this group has always been open about the racing and continues to hold the mind set that racing is priority one, winning comes some where after that. If we had the guideline of what constitutes the need to DQ yourself, it might help keep continuity.

Some thoughts:
1. Drivers placing in top 3 positions only, considered for running too fast = DQ
2. No more than 20 or 25% of the laps can be run under the target time within a half second
3. Draft needs to be considered...help me out on some details
4. Solo (non draft) lap under the half second grace period = auto DQ

May sound rough, may not be necessary, but I think it is worth revisiting, especially as we plan to "recreate" our league. I do have issues with my own guidelines...especially number 2. We have had some races where a driver may run half the laps at a tenth under the target. There is a lot of grey area, that is for sure.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Results completely aside, it is important to realize many guys in the pack may have gained speed and dropped their lap time due to the draft.

We haven't had the issue too many times, and when we did we had the driver DQ themselves. Like everything else, progression needs to continue. Perhaps we need to look at a hard rule about what qualifies as a disqualify. It would certainly be difficult to monitor as a single steward, but this group has always been open about the racing and continues to hold the mind set that racing is priority one, winning comes some where after that. If we had the guideline of what constitutes the need to DQ yourself, it might help keep continuity.

Some thoughts:
1. Drivers placing in top 3 positions only, considered for running too fast = DQ
2. No more than 20 or 25% of the laps can be run under the target time within a half second
3. Draft needs to be considered...help me out on some details
4. Solo (non draft) lap under the half second grace period = auto DQ

May sound rough, may not be necessary, but I think it is worth revisiting, especially as we plan to "recreate" our league. I do have issues with my own guidelines...especially number 2. We have had some races where a driver may run half the laps at a tenth under the target. There is a lot of grey area, that is for sure.

In theory it sounds good but at the same time we've been a rather informal group and I'd like some informal guidelines to go along with that as opposed to hard and fast rules. What I'd really like to see is a formula for making adjustments between races for fast laps run without draft influence. As Cote pointed out above, I was able to make adjustments between races to get my car into the proper target range but if everyone else isn't doing the same, then I'm losing 1/2-1 second per lap and then can't compete. By the time the 4th race rolled around, I was getting passed on really short straights and couldn't keep up at all.

My testing in cars with higher PP and more grip has shown the adjustment is about .05 seconds per PP but I don't think the formula holds at lower PP levels with lower grip and it will vary from track to track based on length and number of slow corners. I think something on the order of .10 seconds per PP is more appropriate. So if you exceed the target time by .5 seconds in a race, without draft, you should drop 5 PP from your car for the next race. If you exceed it by .7 then 7 PP etc. And be honest with yourself as well. If the person in front of you, whom you are drafting, exceeds the target time by a second for example, you should be struggling and just barely keeping up with the draft. If you are easily keeping up with the draft, then you too are a second too fast and need to make the same adjustment. At worst, you'll have to make a minor adjustment for the third race one way or the other but you should be close in both the second and third races to the target time and that should provide closer racing.

Disqualifying yourself from the race is one thing and much appreciated, but if it doesn't lead to some adjustments for the following races what's the point? We do our best to hit the target time but the adrenaline of competition makes us all faster, so let's just accept that and work with it to make the 2nd race and beyond, tigher and more competitive by self imposing PP penalties for the later races.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Good inputs, it seams we are in agreement that we need to address it.
I would like to suggest that since the main goal is to have interesting racing more than getting ahead of every one, we should rethink the way we define the target.
Instead of for example the pace is between 1.12.500 to 1.13.000m let's say 1.12.500 is the target and no one, at any time is allowed to get under 1.12.000. in practice the lowest we can go is 1.12.500, it should be better.
Maybe the gap should be a second, so if we do want any one under 1.12.000, the lower we can go in practice is 1.13.000.
We could try to be conservative for the following events and see how this goes.
I would rather we adjust the target some how, see how it works, instead of having complicated rules.
If any one is too fast after race one, then he needs to adjust PP to get back online.
Like others ( maybe) I could not care less if I do not win an other race ever in this league, all I want is race you guy's.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ok how about this as a solution?

1. We define the targets as a fixed time as opposed to a range. The range is really irrelevant as no one is going to show up with a car that is 2 seconds off pace, we're all trying to get as close to the lower end of the target range.

2. Everyone commits, as best they can with the time they have allotted, to run enough laps to be reasonably sure they can't get lower than the target time. However, we recognize that at times we may make improvements in driving lines, braking points, etc during the course of a competitive race and in that case...

3. Should they get lower than the target time in a race, without the benefit of the draft, they lower their PP by 1 for every 0.10 seconds they better the target time for the following race, and then continue to adjust as they see fit, based on their results in the next race. PP adjustments continue after the second or third race as necessary, as the 0.10 seconds = 1 PP is just a rough guideline and the equation may change from track to track.

I could abbreviate that quite a bit I think but I laid it out in long form so we get the full gist of it.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Ok how about this as a solution?

1. We define the targets as a fixed time as opposed to a range. The range is really irrelevant as no one is going to show up with a car that is 2 seconds off pace, we're all trying to get as close to the lower end of the target range.

2. Everyone commits, as best they can with the time they have allotted, to run enough laps to be reasonably sure they can't get lower than the target time. However, we recognize that at times we may make improvements in driving lines, braking points, etc during the course of a competitive race and in that case...

3. Should they get lower than the target time in a race, without the benefit of the draft, they lower their PP by 1 for every 0.10 seconds they better the target time for the following race, and then continue to adjust as they see fit, based on their results in the next race. PP adjustments continue after the second or third race as necessary, as the 0.10 seconds = 1 PP is just a rough guideline and the equation may change from track to track.

I could abbreviate that quite a bit I think but I laid it out in long form so we get the full gist of it.

👍

 

[TrackBound7]

I vote for JP and Cote's ideas, and veto Track's ideas . I do like the idea of getting rid of the top end of the target. I have had cars before that I felt would work well, but was just a bit too slow. Make an adjustment and then seem too fast...some where hard to find that middle ground. With the simple target time set, I think we can shorten our entry format too:
PSN/car/PP
TrackBound7/Ferrari Scuderia/621pp (example)

I know it has helped me in the past catching a practice race on an off night (usually with Miata). Certainly helped to test if my PP level was appropriate. I know it is hard for many to schedule another night, but what if we looked at tweaking our race night. What if we did 2 heat type races (say 7-8 minutes long), and then 2 feature type races (15 minutes long). Where the heat races could be used to get a better feel for adjustments, and hopefully the 2 longer feature races would be dialed in and 30 total minutes of great racing. There is nothing more frustrating than having a lengthier race like our 15-20 minute runs, and the field is spread out because lap times are scattered more than they should be. With a 7-8 minute race, it is long enough to get in a rhythm and get the tires warmed up. But not so long you are just waiting for the lap count to complete.

 

[Davis]

That sounds like a great idea, TrackBound. I like it a lot; nothing worse than spending 15 minutes in last place waiting for the race to be over. And it'd help me not gain insane speed all of a sudden in the second race.

 

[Cote Dazur]

2 heat type races followed by 2 featured type races sounds like a good solution.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I With the simple target time set, I think we can shorten our entry format too:
PSN/car/PP
TrackBound7/Ferrari Scuderia/621pp (example)

What if we did 2 heat type races (say 7-8 minutes long), and then 2 feature type races (15 minutes long). Where the heat races could be used to get a better feel for adjustments, and hopefully the 2 longer feature races would be dialed in and 30 total minutes of great racing. There is nothing more frustrating than having a lengthier race like our 15-20 minute runs, and the field is spread out because lap times are scattered more than they should be. With a 7-8 minute race, it is long enough to get in a rhythm and get the tires warmed up. But not so long you are just waiting for the lap count to complete.

The 4 race format sounds good, so long as the first couple of races are long enough that the tires get warmed up so we can see the true potential of each car and be able to make adjustments as you mentioned. Perhaps we can even have the first couple of races not count for the night and just be for sorting out purposes and the last two feature races are the ones we post up for the nightly results.

That sounds like a great idea, TrackBound. I like it a lot; nothing worse than spending 15 minutes in last place waiting for the race to be over. And it'd help me not gain insane speed all of a sudden in the second race.

Just in case you're wondering Ferrari, because I know if I were in your shoes I'd be thinking this, this whole kerfuffle about running laps faster than the posted time has been an ongoing issue the last few weeks, the recent race at Trial Mountain is just a small part of it. In the past we've always been good enough to call our own penalties in this regard, but ideally we'd like to not have to worry about it to begin with. Parity League has always been about the tightest possible racing experience and that happens most effectively when we can all run nearly the exact same lap times.

 

[Davis]

I just can't ever get a car in the perfect time, my Mazda from Autumn Ring was 2 seconds too slow the whole race. I really like the format, I just need more practice, which is why I really liked TeackBound's idea.

 

[Naptown25rs]

Can someone with access update the OP with the track and time for this week so I don't have to keep digging, or is it going to be changing with the new format?

 

[mike 5927]

What are the targets? If you re-post them here I will try to update the op with them tomorrow. But no promises as I'm working a 12 hour shift, so I won't have much time.

 

[TrackBound7]

TARGET: was 1:44.500 Sport Hard (low to mid 400pp)
My concern was that was a bit too slow, but since no other time was confirmed I think we should probably go with it.

Ferrari and any other new onlooker, it may sound like we have a problem with our format, when in fact it worked pretty consistently for about 50 overall races (probably 16 weeks). We have had minimal issues, but have had some small concerns about lap times getting to fast throughout a night. Trial Mtn just seemed to magnify that concern throughout the night and with numerous driver/car combos. It could actually all be a silver lining though and happened at a great time when we are looking at tweaking how this league is going to run.

MOVING FORWARD
We definitely need to make some final decisions and get a new thread going. I am in favor of the following
1. Pace Racing (with a synopsis of what we are all about...like what Cote said)
2. Creating a new GTP name with a couple people having access (Pace_Racer)
3. 3 week rotation (or some other proposed rotation), where 2 weeks are at the same track, different targets, different tires, 3rd week reserved for a theme evening.
4. Target time set as a single time, ie 1:13.500
5. General PP adjustment for being too fast (JP's .1sec = 1pp rule)
6. 4 races, 2 shorter heats long enough for the tires to get warm, and 2 feature events (results posted online for the 2 feature)
7. More super close, competitive racing like the first 50 races!!!!!

 

[Cote Dazur]

I agree with all the points
Unfortunetly I would like to, but I cannot, take all the responsabilities, but I volonteer to take some.
My issue is that some time I am very busy, but other time I am totally available.

 

[TrackBound7]

I have no problem taking/sharing responsibility for target times and theme ideas. I am also willing to record the feature event results. I would rather not have much involvement in the OP/thread.

 

[Naptown25rs]

I'm all for moving ahead with the proposed ideas... Really enjoy this format and group of racers here. I definitely want to see it continue. 👍

 

[TrackBound7]

T Mtn round 2

TrackBound7/RX7 Spirit/407pp

Ran a bunch more laps tonight and all were above the 44.5 mark. If I could put my sectors together I might dip under, so I am sure the 2 heat races will help with that.

 

[TrackBound7]

Just as a possible FYI, we are looking at a possible big storm coming our way Monday/Tuesday. I have all intentions of racing Monday night unless we lose power. The TV and weather people sure love to hype up any potentially bad weather.

 

[TrackBound7]

Found some interesting definitions I thought you guys would get a kick out of.

Understeer: you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Found some interesting definitions I thought you guys would get a kick out of.

Understeer: you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.

Very true!

 

[Davis]

Haha, I legitimately "lol'd" at the part about torque.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Just as a possible FYI, we are looking at a possible big storm coming our way Monday/Tuesday. I have all intentions of racing Monday night unless we lose power. The TV and weather people sure love to hype up any potentially bad weather.

I should be able to make it Monday...but the storm may affect us here too so we'll see what happens.

Found some interesting definitions I thought you guys would get a kick out of.

Understeer: you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.

Johnnypenso/RX7 GT Limited (FC,J) 85'/397pp No ABS

 

[Cote Dazur]

It looks like I will be able to race after all, my trip as been cancelled because of Sandy.
What is the target and the tyre type again?

 

[Johnnypenso]

TARGET: was 1:44.500 Sport Hard (low to mid 400pp)

 

[TrackBound7]

Because of Sandy I am pretty sure I won't make it. I have a feeling we are going to be in the dark for a handful of days. We will see, good luck to all.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So far so good here weather wise. We're not supposed to get the worst of it anyway, but they are calling for rain to start this afternoon and winds to pick up to maybe 30mph. Heavy rain can sometimes mean I'm busy with work so we'll wait and see but so far it looks like I'll be there tonight.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Cotedazur06/Scion FR-S '12/438PP
ABS0/Cockpit view/H shifter w clutch.