What does America have against Mexico?

[Joey D]

If I went to any country at all to live and I didn't speak the native language the first thing I would do is learn the native language. English should be made the official language of the United States, if you are multi-lingual that's just a huge advantage for you in the business world, but our nation functions using English.

If the situation was reversed I don't know what I would do because there are about a million factors to consider. You can say the same thing about any situation.

I went to the Baja to go fishing and everyone just assumed I was loaded, when in fact I got a free trip down there and free fishing on a family friend's boat. After that I want nothing to do with Mexico has to offer, I would love to see some of the ruins, but the Mexican government has allowed them to become tourist attractions and that sickens the hell out of me.

And America was selective about who they allowed into the country, there was by no means open boarders. And many people that got here couldn't do anything anyways because they weren't given jobs based on what country they came from, and if you weren't "white" you'd probably have a better chance at have a snow fight in hell.

But before we go on, would you care to tell me why I'm debating with someone from Australia on an American issue?

 

[Gonz013]

Far be it for me to defend racism. But why don't YOU look at it from the American's point of view? You said the Americans should look at it from the Mexicans point of view, so why not the other way around?

I was commenting on my experiences at a US airport.
I saw a big, fat, white US woman yelling and making racist remarks at a well dressed, perfectly legal Mexican tourist for no reason other than she took 2 seconds too long to get her passport out to show her.
It got so bad that another airport official had to intervene and pull her away.

I tried to see it from the US point of view, but couldn't justify it.

I also witnessed two different couples dining in a Mexican restaurant in Mexico, treating the restaurant staff like crap, carying on and being obnoxious. One of the waiters told me that although not typical of all US, they say it happened every other day.

Again, I tried to see it from their point of view, but...

Personally, I detest the actions of all illegals.

Really? Even when they do good things, work hard and get paid crap, do jobs other US citizens don't want to do, and send the money back to their families?
Just because they are illegal doesn't mean they are bad. They might be good people.

 

[Joey D]

Just because they are illegal doesn't mean they are bad.

YES. IT. DOES. They are breaking the law. If I broke into your house to say vacuum your floor, you wouldn't be happy even though I was doing something worth while because I invaded your space without your permission. Any way you look at it, it's wrong.

 

[Gonz013]

But before we go on, would you care to tell me why I'm debating with someone from Australia on an American issue?

1. I'm interested
2. I have friends and family in both US and Mexico. I love both US and Mexico for different reasons.
3. The situation reflects similar situations around the world. eg. Indonesians trying to get into Australia Illegally.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

[BIGRANT]I'm not a racist! I was saying that after speaking with a few of them, they said stuff like they do so much work, with so little pay. Kind of like teachers here in the USA. I'm saying that come on, we all know USA can be real lazy. Look at NASCAR, as they only do oval courses, because they will struggle to do more than just 2 turns, they would never take the Nurburgring. I see the reasons of why they are building the border, but they should (like I said...) make the border the way it should be, if they really want Immigrants to stop entering Illegaly. They should put security camera's, or thicker barb wire, and some more stuff underneath the border, if we really wanted them to stop. Because I said that they do more work means I'm a racist? WTF. [/BIGRANT]

 

[Gonz013]

YES. IT. DOES. They are breaking the law. If I broke into your house to say vacuum your floor, you wouldn't be happy even though I was doing something worth while because I invaded your space without your permission. Any way you look at it, it's wrong.

Picturing that scenario made me laugh - after the initial shock, I think I would be very confused.

But seriously, the analogy isn't quite right.
it would be more correct if I opened my curtains and put some food on the table, along with a sign that says
"I know you are hungry, but don't break in, but if you do, vaccum my house and take this little bit of food in return. If I catch you, you will be punished"

Its simple supply and demand. The US has the damand. Mexico the supply.

If the demand for Mexican's work was not there, there would be no jobs, no need for illegal immigrants, and little incentive for them to cross the border illegally.
Despite what you might believe, the rest of the world doesn't want to be like/ in the US. Mexicans like Mexico.
If they had jobs/ money in Mexico, they would stay. In fact, most of them do, and when they have money to travel, they travel inside Mexico.

 

[Danoff]

I'm not a racist!

Mexicans do a lot more work than we Americans do

Sorry, that's just plain racist. To categorize mexicans as harder workers than the rest of us is racist. There isn't any other way to look at it. Switch the countries around in that statement and tell me it isn't racist.

Its simple supply and demand. The US has the damand. Mexico the supply.

Yes, we have demand for black-market labor. Demand created by US tax policy. We also have demand for other illegal activities created by the very laws that make those activities illegal - we're not happy to have that demand supplied.

 

[Gonz013]

Not even close. You familiar with Ellis Island? That's where people went to become documented LEGAL immigrants.

Our nation is not built upon the notion of letting everyone in. It is built upon LEGAL immigration.

It was a processing house. How many were turned away? Where is the equivalent today?

 

[Danoff]

It was a processing house. How many were turned away? Where is the equivalent today?

Legal immigration.... legal. We do still have legal immigrants these days, it just isn't the preferred method.

 

[Joey D]

The illegals should not be the only ones being punished, the employer who hires someone that is illegal should be punished as well. Figure out what it would cost to pay the workers minimum wage and fine the company that amount. The companies are breaking the law just as much as the illegals are.

I see no reason why you couldn't just pay legal Mexicans $5.xx some thing an hour to do whatever. Or have the US government issue temporary working visas for seasonal workers.

With Ellis Island if you were white, Judeo-Christian, and a supporter of democracy you probably weren't going to get in. A black, atheist, communist, probably would have been thrown in the water and told to swim back to where he/she had come from.

 

[Gonz013]

[BIGRANT]I'm not a racist! I was saying that after speaking with a few of them, they said stuff like they do so much work, with so little pay. Kind of like teachers here in the USA. I'm saying that come on, we all know USA can be real lazy. Look at NASCAR, as they only do oval courses, because they will struggle to do more than just 2 turns, they would never take the Nurburgring. I see the reasons of why they are building the border, but they should (like I said...) make the border the way it should be, if they really want Immigrants to stop entering Illegaly. They should put security camera's, or thicker barb wire, and some more stuff underneath the border, if we really wanted them to stop. Because I said that they do more work means I'm a racist? WTF. [/BIGRANT]

that NASCAR dig is priceless...

But seriously. Yes, Mexicans can be hard working, but any US citizen in the same position as an illegal Mexican immigrant would be just as hard working.

It's just people, people.

It's not what the colour of your skin is, its what situation you have been put in.

Won't the aliens come to invade us already? Nothing unites like a common enemy!

 

[Danoff]

The illegals should not be the only ones being punished, the employer who hires someone that is illegal should be punished as well. Figure out what it would cost to pay the workers minimum wage and fine the company that amount.

You're forgetting about social security, medicare, health insurance, worker's comp, and don't forget to withhold payroll taxes.

 

[Joey D]

There are companies where health insurance isn't offered, I didn't get it on my road job. Everyone pays into social security whether they are going to get it or not, I probably will never see that money but Uncle Sam lops off a chunk of my paycheck every week.

But even with all of that legals would still be making (I'm assuming this) more then an illegal who I can't imagine gets minimum wage. But I pay all of this stuff, why can't they pay it like everyone else?

 

[Danoff]

But even with all of that legals would still be making (I'm assuming this) more then an illegal who I can't imagine gets minimum wage. But I pay all of this stuff, why can't they pay it like everyone else?

The easier (and fairer) way to level the playing field is just eliminate all that stuff.... social security (which is a huge problem anyway), medicare, and move the income tax to a sales tax.

Now the playing field is level, the black market is smaller, and the demand for illegals is lower.

 

[Joey D]

Oh I agree with that, I hate all that crap anyways and I'm all in favor of getting rid of it. Or we can just have everyone kill themselves when they reach the age of 65...oh Christopher Buckley you are a genius.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

[SUPER DUPER RANT!!]Well I know I am not a racist, so stop flaming me and calling me a racist. So yeah, if someone said I worked harder than some light skin boy, that means that person that said that is racist? Trust me I have nothing to do with racism, except trying to stop it. I want this world to be equal, and not back into racism like before. I even have a spray painted shirt that says stop racism. It's the differences in people that makes this world nice and exciting to learn.

I'm am not a RACIST so lets LEAVE IT AT THAT! Why am I always getting flamed? I'm almost burned to death here.[/SUPER DUPER RANT]

 

[Barracuda]

[SUPER DUPER RANT!!]Well I know I am not a racist, so stop flaming me and calling me a racist. So yeah, if someone said I worked harder than some light skin boy, that means that person that said that is racist? Trust me I have nothing to do with racism, except trying to stop it. I want this world to be equal, and not back into racism like before. I even have a spray painted shirt that says stop racism. It's the differences in people that makes this world nice and exciting to learn.

I'm am not a RACIST so lets LEAVE IT AT THAT! Why am I always getting flamed? I'm almost burned to death here.[/SUPER DUPER RANT]

Because what you posted was quite stupid, and deserved flaming in a lot of people's eyes.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Edited the comment that people kept flaming me for. 👍 Sorry if you thought it was a racist comment.

 

[McLaren]

How about the fact that your taxes go to helping them, why they don't pay taxes at all in return.

 

[SS69]

They need to spend more money and time into schools. We stay spending money on useless stuff. I don't get this at all. I bet they're going to do something else useless, like put a border on the damn ocean.

School taxes have risen dramatically in the last ten years because of the 25 or so million illegal immigrants that have come here and have had kids. I have no kids in the school system yet I still have to pay because a couple of illegal immigrants decided to have 5 kids while they were up here illegally.

 

[Barracuda]

School taxes have risen dramatically in the last ten years because of the 25 or so million illegal immigrants that have come here and have had kids. I have no kids in the school system yet I still have to pay because a couple of illegal immigrants decided to have 5 kids while they were up here illegally.

Exactly 👍

 

[Gonz013]

School taxes have risen dramatically in the last ten years because of the 25 or so million illegal immigrants that have come here and have had kids. I have no kids in the school system yet I still have to pay because a couple of illegal immigrants decided to have 5 kids while they were up here illegally.

If every illegal immigrant suddenly left the US, you'd be stuffed.
There wouldn't be enough people to do the jobs you need/ want done, and I guarantee you'd end up paying more in taxes than you are today so that the goods and services previously offered so cheaply can be carried out.

In any case, everyone pays taxes for services they don't need or use.
It's called being a part of a society.

 

[a6m5]

Tax payers will end up picking up most of the tabs on school associated spendings no matter what. Hispanic families are HUGE. Most of the Mexican guys I know have bunch of siblings, and they could start their own tribe, if you start counting their cousins in.

Even if the illegal immigrants start paying taxes, we still will end up paying high taxes due to the high numbers of kids they will have using our schools.

 

[Joey D]

If paying taxes is being part of society, then they should pay taxes, speak English and start the citizenship process since those are all part of being in society as well.

 

[SS69]

If every illegal immigrant suddenly left the US, you'd be stuffed.
There wouldn't be enough people to do the jobs you need/ want done, and I guarantee you'd end up paying more in taxes than you are today so that the goods and services previously offered so cheaply can be carried out.

In any case, everyone pays taxes for services they don't need or use.
It's called being a part of a society.

So you're using the argument of, "they're doing jobs americans dont want"? If they suddenly went away we would be lost, ala, "A Day Without a Mexican"? I don't mind them doing the work, I just want them to be legal and pay their taxes for it.

Also my argument of the taxes is more on the system rather than the immigrants. Why should I pay school taxes when I dont have kids? I believe it should be on a per kid basis, not on a how much they think my land is worth basis. You pay a certain amount of taxes according to how many kids you have. Those who have no kids will not have to pay those taxes. Sure the taxes will probably be higher for those who have kids, but I would look at it as a built in population control. My house is appraised for more than I could ever sell it for, just because they want me to pay higher school taxes. The school system is a joke anyways. It was a disgrace when I was in it, and it's even more of a disgrace now. I'm paying to send failures to school, and Texas is still one of the worst states for public education. But, I digress...

 

[a6m5]

So you're using the argument of, "they're doing jobs americans dont want". If they suddenly went away we would be lost, ala, "A Day Without a Mexican". I mind them doing the work, I just want them to be legal and pay their taxes for it.

Also my argument of the taxes is more on the system rather than the immigrants. Why should I pay school taxes when I dont have kids? I believe it should be on a per kid basis, not on a how much they think my land is worth basis. You pay a certain amount of taxes according to how many kids you have. Those who have no kids will not have to pay those taxes. Sure the taxes will probably be higher for those who have kids, but I would look at it as a built in population control.

I look at that in a totally different way. I looked at it as in, "I went to school, and now it's my turn to pay the taxes that supports them."

Besides, even if the tax payer(you) him/herself isn't going to school, you are still getting something out of it. You don't want bunch of dumbasses who talks like a retard all over the town, do ya? Language is bit harsh, I apologize. I felt that it helped making the point.

 

[Joey D]

Public school is a joke though, it didn't prepare me for college one bit and I was in very upper level classes. The few "gen ed" classes I had to take I didn't show up for most of the time and when I did I would listen to my MP3 player, read a novel, or sleep. I walked out of high school with a 3.9 GPA and I didn't even try. Now in college I have to actually do work (not complaining) and I'm only getting a 3.5 GPA.

Public schools spend their money so foolishly that it's sad. In my history class out text books still had maps of the Soviet Union in them, this was in 2004. This is coming from a school in Oakland County, Michigan, one of the 10 richest counties in America.

 

[Gonz013]

If paying taxes is being part of society, then they should pay taxes, speak English and start the citizenship process since those are all part of being in society as well.

Yep. They should learn English, they should pay taxes, they should start the citizenship process. No problem... except the US doesn't actually want that.

The US should take every single illegal and take them back to their country of origin.

But the US WONT... even if they could do it overnight.

Doing that would leave a vaccum that would need to be filled by LEGAL immigrants- the ones with voting rights that are entitled to be paid more.

Does the US government actually want that? Its in the US' interest to keep the illegals, so they can get the crap pay and do the crap jobs.

 

[a6m5]

Public school is a joke though, it didn't prepare me for college one bit and I was in very upper level classes. The few "gen ed" classes I had to take I didn't show up for most of the time and when I did I would listen to my MP3 player, read a novel, or sleep. I walked out of high school with a 3.9 GPA and I didn't even try. Now in college I have to actually do work (not complaining) and I'm only getting a 3.5 GPA.

Public schools spend their money so foolishly that it's sad. In my history class out text books still had maps of the Soviet Union in them, this was in 2004. This is coming from a school in Oakland County, Michigan, one of the 10 richest counties in America.

Well, I agree that schools have few issues, but that's a whole another (mega)issue.

 

[SS69]

I look at that in a totally different way. I looked at it as in, "I went to school, and now it's my turn to pay the taxes that supports them."

Besides, even if the tax payer(you) him/herself isn't going to school, you are still getting something out of it. You don't want bunch of dumbasses who talks like a retard all over the town, do ya? Language is bit harsh, I apologize. I felt that it helped making the point.

No that's actually a really good point. I just think the system is flawed. I wouldnt even mind so much If I didnt feel like my money was going to waste. You speak of paying so it lowers the "dumbass" population. I'm paying taxes and I'm still getting dumbasses, when I could be getting them for free. I feel like I'm getting ripped off.