What exactly is so shameful about using Racing Soft tires?
- Thread starter JLawrence
- 323 comments
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 1,283
- GTP_FreakinWolfy
I suppose that's where we differ, I do enjoy a good challenge, and I have a number of cars set with random tires, or various things to make winning as difficult as possible, but generally speaking I am very gung ho, and like Ricky Bobby, I wanna go fast. Now that I've played through everything but the Formula Gran Turismo event (stupid thing won't show in the UCD) I just run a lot of time trials, and spend a lot of time tuning and trying to get the best most efficient tune, and the RS tires just work for that. They do have a very definite limit with any given car (except maybe the Beetle, you never have to slow down in that thing=p) and once you surpass it you know it cause you're off into the wall. I feel like it really does take skill to get the most out of the RS tires, and that's basically what I'm aiming for myself.
Yes I gree, but tuning up a little Polo & putting RS tyres on & then going to the Schwarzald League in 'extreme' & sweating bullets to beat the McLaren or Merc SLS at the 'ring is an absolute hoot!
On another front, I CANNOT STAND the incessant screeching
that some cars make using RH, so I rather use RS & then turn down the power on my cars to make it competitive...
- 1,473
- Teddy_Bear-420
i like to drive my cars stock or with a sports tune up
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
This is all fine and dandy unless you race online in open lobbies most of the time which I do. I don't care if someone is the Stig himself, you cannot beat win online if I have racing softs and you have sports softs, there is just too much of a grip difference. There are very few open lobbies that run anything less than racing softs so little to choose from and most of the time I'm not interested in hosting and waiting a half hour or hour for a lobby to fill up to have some decent racing. So Racing Softs it is and I've had no trouble adapting to sports softs in the Seasonals or in a race series or two. Requires a different approach but it's not like it's rocket science...lol.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Amen to that brother. There's a big difference between slicks online vs. offline as well. They don't stick nearly as well online and it's very easy to go beyond their limit. I race in online lobbies all the time and even in 3-5 lap sprints the fields are usually well spread out by the end so driving skill is a factor at all levels of grip otherwise it would just be a parade and it never is.
- 1,092
- Ecchi_BANZAII
I guess you're one of those that think R.Soft online has the same grip is R.Soft offline.
The biggest aids in this game are the arcade power horse cars that even low level people can get/MINOLTA and Peugeot 908.
I drive a Ford GT which is a 826BHP/1165kg car against that Peugeot 908 which also use R.Soft AND SRF.
If driving a slower and heavier car against a noob tool car an winning is called aids then you have a messed up way of thinking.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Great stuff - check out the lowly FAP-mobile 
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Dunno, I haven't spent any time comparing race softs on and off line.
But I've raced extensively on-line in the JGTC & DTM cars on race hards, and considering the amount of grip these tyres generate I can't see why anyone would need anything more grippy on a 500bhp 1100kg RWD car... I'd be more than happy racing them on Sports Softs.
The picture you posted makes me
if that's the state of open lobby racing. Why would anyone bother? The grid line up is completely unbalanced, and no one's going to get any decent close racing with that line up of cars.
- 9,761
- Portland, OR
- Jump_Ace
- JUMPxACE
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Dunno, I haven't spent any time comparing race softs on and off line.
But I've raced extensively on-line in the JGTC & DTM cars on race hards, and considering the amount of grip these tyres generate I can't see why anyone would need anything more grippy on a 500bhp 1100kg RWD car... I'd be more than happy racing them on Sports Softs.
The picture you posted makes me
If it was a PP based race then the cars would be fairly close. If that's the gap though in 3 minute race I'd say the competition is not up to snuff...lol. Says less about the winner's skill than about the strength of the field...sorry...lol. The fact that a BMW street car and a station wagon beat a 250 mph Lemans car, a couple of RM'd Corvettes and a GT500 car, might also be a clue as to the strength of the field...lol.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
My thoughts exactly... when I looked at the list the BMW was the car that stood out.
- 112
- HurlingDervish
I think its inconsiderate to do a sports car lobby with low PP then allow racing tires, especially soft, because:
1. Players in your lobby will scramble to fit PP
2. Then realize they still have the stock tires on
3. Either lose horribly or complain to move the PP to a car they have RS on
I think it just makes more sense to leave sport car lobbies on sports tires, that way everyone can be on the same playing field. Without racing softs on, matches are much closer. And in general, I think its more fun to be on the verge of spinning out more often than with the magnetic tires, it makes people more cautious and not try to rambo their way through turns to the front
1. Players in your lobby will scramble to fit PP
2. Then realize they still have the stock tires on
3. Either lose horribly or complain to move the PP to a car they have RS on
I think it just makes more sense to leave sport car lobbies on sports tires, that way everyone can be on the same playing field. Without racing softs on, matches are much closer. And in general, I think its more fun to be on the verge of spinning out more often than with the magnetic tires, it makes people more cautious and not try to rambo their way through turns to the front
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I see your point, but it's not true that there's no challenge.
A car on ANY compound has a finitely possible minimum lap time. The challenge is getting close to that time on every lap.
If you're racing then the challenge is in going for the win.
I quite agree that slapping race:softs on a low-end sportscar sort of obviates the chance to have real fun or to learn anything... but in a properly run online race with a similar field on race:softs there really IS competition to be had.
We should be preaching common sense over elitism...
ItsHim
Premium
- 1,414
- Bavaria/Germany
I don't really think elitism is the main issue here. Hopefully far from it.
And of course, an able driver will always be quicker than the mainstream ones (including me), no matter what car, track or indeed tyres.
On the other hand, I learned some time ago that the challenge gets harder the less power and grip cars have. Just think back to the (European) GT Academy: they used a relatively low powered rwd car on CS for finding their champion. Why? Certainly not because it's easier than running a GT500 on racing tyres.
Now, with GT4 I also took RS on every occasion. And had quite some fun. But the real deal was when I started doing endurance races because my tyres had to last to catch the rabbit car.
With GT5 I started on CS on the Nordschleife while playing the GamesCom demo, and if you would look back I was quite frustrated because, with all that noise and further excuses, I couldn't do more than 2 corners in a row in a stock BMW 1 series.
The tyres in Arcade mode have become stickier, so it's less of a frustration issue for me but I admit: I usually go for SH on road cars and RH for RM'd and Cup cars. In Arcade, too, because it still is more fun than A-Spec.
So, to put it in a nutshell: yes, it's a game and yes, by all means play it the way you want and enjoy most.
If you think you're fast and you want to shut up the sim-fanatic crowd, meet them on their battlefield. Race them with anything other than RS and beat them. That would settle the argument once and for all
- 1,418
Driving on Sports Soft car was understeer with power oversteering on exit.
Fitting Racing Soft tires and no other changes the conering speed was increased, with understeer at the limit. The rear tires had too much grip to get power oversteer on exit.
Car Was a fully modded SS Commodore with approx 600 bhp.
As a side note using race softs does not = win in a modified road car when racing against LM cars. Lack of downforce is the major factor and not tires.
Fitting Racing Soft tires and no other changes the conering speed was increased, with understeer at the limit. The rear tires had too much grip to get power oversteer on exit.
Car Was a fully modded SS Commodore with approx 600 bhp.
As a side note using race softs does not = win in a modified road car when racing against LM cars. Lack of downforce is the major factor and not tires.
- 6,392
- Pennsylvania
- wat3rm370n
Wow JL, your thread is a BIG hit! LOL Days & days & still going strong.
Obviously what makes a thread the most popular is to put the word SHAME in the subject line. LOL
Everyone flocks to it like old ladies buying up copies of celebrity gossip magazines. haha.
THIS is the most compelling argument for sports tires I've heard IN CONTEXT, hands down.
In this case, I think HurlingDervish is very sensible.
He gives his reasoning, the situation, and it's about INCLUSION rather than EXCLUSION.
He's not looking to dial people out & cut off his competition, or diss anyone for being a newbie or saying he's too good to race with "lesser players". He's looking for ways to make it more inclusive. (ie: not everyone wants to spend their credits buying racing softs for all their cars)
I dare anyone to call him elitist.
I think when people throw out the "elitist" label, they're talking about the people who insult anyone who's not a hard core player. Someone who thinks being a newbie is a bad thing. LOL
(Assuming they didn't pop out of the womb and immediately top the charts on lap times... being a newbie is just that - being new. If there's something wrong with that no one would ever start anything and therefore never get good at anything, because everyone's new at the beginning.)
Obviously what makes a thread the most popular is to put the word SHAME in the subject line. LOL
Everyone flocks to it like old ladies buying up copies of celebrity gossip magazines. haha.
THIS is the most compelling argument for sports tires I've heard IN CONTEXT, hands down.
In this case, I think HurlingDervish is very sensible.
He gives his reasoning, the situation, and it's about INCLUSION rather than EXCLUSION.
He's not looking to dial people out & cut off his competition, or diss anyone for being a newbie or saying he's too good to race with "lesser players". He's looking for ways to make it more inclusive. (ie: not everyone wants to spend their credits buying racing softs for all their cars)
I dare anyone to call him elitist.
I think when people throw out the "elitist" label, they're talking about the people who insult anyone who's not a hard core player. Someone who thinks being a newbie is a bad thing. LOL
(Assuming they didn't pop out of the womb and immediately top the charts on lap times... being a newbie is just that - being new. If there's something wrong with that no one would ever start anything and therefore never get good at anything, because everyone's new at the beginning.)
- 1,203
The same competition can be had on Sports:Softs too.You can have fun and you learn something.
This has nothing to do being a "Elitist" (what an awful word) or "Beginner".
raVer
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Elitism. The word I wish I'd never used
My rather swamped point is manifold;
Competition
From a racing point of view there's an equal challenge in beating a field on C:H tyres as there is in beating a field on R:S tyres
Personality
Racing tyres can kill the personality of a car - before using them it would be sensible to decide on what you want to use them FOR. Do you want to just have fun in the car? Keep them Sporty, or Comforty! Learn a track? Consistent grip required, stick some slicks on. Enter a competition? For serious comps you need to be on the same tyres (at least on the front) as the opposition.
Your Money
You pays your money, you takes your choice. At the end of the day you play how you like. I guess I dropped the E-bomb because I felt that some posts in this thread were belittling the choice of other players with no basis other than then personal preference. That's silly, immature and ignores some of the basic facts about competition.
Ich bin der Uber-Spielster
You paid the same money as everyone else and get the same range of choices. If it makes you feel good thrashing R:S LMPs in a 900bhp Audi Avant with Comfort Hard tyres then I wish you well
- 640
- awan_afuqja
- 1,094
- The DOGG house
- WAGG__da__DOGG
Holy cow, I've read most of the thread and a lot of the posts are downright ridiculous in their negativity towards racing softs. Everyone paid for the game so who cares how anyone else sets up their cars? I understand using sports or comfort tires make the game challenging in A spec, but online is a different animal. Unless it's a rule, nearly everyone will use racing softs online.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I enjoy reading these discussions but they are so pointless...lol. Race whatever you want whenever you want. You pay for the game you can do what you want. If anyone is hell bent on racing online on Sports Soft tires, find a lobby that does this or build it and they will come. I prefer racing softs because I like to be at the limit of the car and also because I believe that although a 700 hp BMW M5 is technically a street car, it wasn't designed to run at 220 mph on street tires with 700 hp.
Ultimately it's personal preference and while it's ok to tout your personal preference there's no need to put anyone else down for theirs. It's call tolerance...we should all try it sometime...lol.
Ultimately it's personal preference and while it's ok to tout your personal preference there's no need to put anyone else down for theirs. It's call tolerance...we should all try it sometime...lol.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
This is an interesting one for me, and sort of put the discussion in to some context.
I will never understand why people take a perfectly good road car and then chuck all the upgrades on it to the point where it requires tyres to completely at odds with anything realistic for that car just make it drivable.
My experience of playing GT games (and I've played pretty much all of them to completion) is that road cars are so much more enjoyable to drive with only minimal upgrades... I do generally put fully adjustable suspension on mine so I can dial out the stupid fixed +ve rear toe that means almost every car has horrendous understeer as standard. Other than that I find upgrades actually degrade the enjoyment of driving them.
If I want to experience the speed of 700bhp, I'll go pick a proper racing car out of my garage and race that.
Half the reason people feel the need to stick super sticky on thier cars is because they have modded them way beyond anything the car was designed to be.
Most of you would become much better drivers if you spent more time in untuned cars with sensible power levels... that way you'd learn proper driving skills and actually begin to understand the nuances of the physics engine and how to get the best out of it.
- 6
- jojonathan13
ItsHim
Premium
- 1,414
- Bavaria/Germany
In fact in my view that's one of the strong points of the GT series: you don't have to upgrade, or to a point even tune, most of the cars to get something out of them. It's a very old school approach to the car game genre and maybe that's why it gets so easily overlook: the player is just accustomed to head straight for the tuning/pimping section.
The thing about racing softs is that it actually bunches the field. Mistakes behind the wheel of a car on comfort hards will result in larger losses of time than identical mistakes made behind the wheel of a car on racing softs. This means that the more 'flawless' a car is in its handling, the more ham-handed the driver can be without losing significant time.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing in online racing? Who knows...
Is that a good thing or a bad thing in online racing? Who knows...
Its a flawwed theory, but at least it can spark a sensible arguement. I drive on the Nurburgring 10/1 over all the other tracks combined. RS tires alone will not make you a faster driver. You are more likely to stay on the road, but one off no matter what tire compound you will lose valuable seconds. I often use an underpowered car on the track because racing with no one in sight is rather boring. I do see what you mean about the pack thing but its more like 3>>>>>7>>>>4>>2. Where the cars are placed on the track. In actuality, race tires will bite you back the hardest when you exceed their limits. I hit the handbrake on my 530hp Audi R8 into a turn and I snap oversteered with an approx 130degrees directional change with no control at all. This is an awd without max power on the stock understeering setup it had.
If only that was true. Running the cars at the epidome of it's able performance and then being able to use the most of it will make you a better driver. Tire spin through 3rd gear will not improve your driving ability at all.
