What exactly is so shameful about using Racing Soft tires?

[Nastradamus87]

Brother, I am a racing purist. I have multiple race cars sitting in my garage, and I would switch to the Pirelli P Zero Racing Slick, in a heart beat, which as I think someone in this thread already mentioned has equal if not more grip than the RS tires in the game. They're just not legal in the group I run with.


That is also a false statement. It takes just as much skill to get the full potential out of those tires as any other. I have a challenge for you, get a Cobra 427, throw on a set of RS tires, and run around Laguna Seca a few times and tell me what times you get. (I would highly suggest some suspension tweaking as well)

You are right; I am wrong. To getting the full potential out of any tire requires tremendous skill - racing soft tires or not. You are talking about racing at the very highest level though. I was speaking more of the beginner to intermediate level - which I am a part of. What I meant is racing soft tires are not as conducive to learning as tires with less grip (in GT5). With racing soft tires you don't have to pay much attention to breaking points, corner entry speed, and whatnot to stay on the road, but you sure do with sports hard tires.

I personally don't care what tires people choose to race with. All I have been trying to do is explain that there are - IN GENERAL - two groups of people who play GT5 for very different reasons. One group has reasons - right or wrong - for liking racing soft tires, and the other group has reasons for liking racing soft tires.

I don't know if you're wrong. I don't know if you're right.

I don't think right or wrong comes into this.

I think the problem is, to some people, you probably sound a bit crazy.

This might be what some people are seeing (when they read your posts):



I recognize that you're probably not delusional. You're just playing GT5 in an RPG style.

That's your business.

But when you make it sound like it's exactly like real life. And that's what makes your way the right way. And anyone who doesn't must not be this or that... Sorry, it sounds kooky. And it's far from accurate. You play the game the way you like because you want to. There's no real life justification to prove your opinion is right. And none necessary either.

I never said GT5 is exactly like real life. I did say it is attempting to simulate real life racing. Sometimes it does a decent job and other times it does a poor job. Regardless, it is the best tool that some people who want to improve their racing skills have access to and they therefore treat the game as a means of becoming a better racer. This is the reality. I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong, or that racing in GT5 is just like real life.

I think most people (though not all) who play this game are probably, at least to some degree, interested in motor sports, either driving themselves or as a spectator. I don't think that necessarily dictates to them how they play the game.

As I have said, a GT5 racing purist is a motor sport enthusiast but a motor sport enthusiast is not necessarily a GT5 racing purist. I never meant to say you're not a motor sport enthusiast unless you are hardcore in GT5. If I implied this in any way it was not intensional. I think some people were overly defensive in assuming this is what I meant.

Indeed, I think the more someone races in real life, the less need they have to make GT5 "feel real" to them. They get that in real life, after all. They don't need to find that in a game. They don't need a simulation! They experience the real thing.

Well, to follow suite with other peoples argument, not everyone has the luxury of racing in real life. To some people, GT5 and other racing simulators is the closest they are every going to get to participate in racing. What gives anyone the right to tell them that they are wrong, or that they should not enjoy simulations in this fashion because they are not exact replicas of reality? My point is that different people play GT5 for different reasons, and this is why some people look down on using racing soft tires - whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant - and some people enjoy using racing soft tires.

Are you defending people ridiculing each other?

If you really feel the desire to ridicule people... it's not against the forum rules to be rude... But don't expect people to pat you on the back for it.
If you ridicule someone, it's very likely they won't love you. LOL

No. I never said anyone was wrong for using racing soft tires. Different people will use different tires for different reasons.

 

[JLawrence]

You are right; I am wrong. To getting the full potential out of any tire requires tremendous skill - racing soft tires or not. You are talking about racing at the very highest level though. I was speaking more of the beginner to intermediate level - which I am a part of. What I meant is racing soft tires are not as conducive to learning as tires with less grip (in GT5). With racing soft tires you don't have to pay much attention to breaking points, corner entry speed, and whatnot to stay on the road, but you sure do with sports hard tires.

[/SIZE]

It would save alot of argument if next time you would elaborate on your thoughts. People like me would dearly appreciate that =)

I do agree with the thought that they have the tire wear way wrong. Maybe a patch is in order?



Off topic, but I am damn excited, Bin Laden is dead for those of you that don't know already. Courtesy of the Red White and Blue!

 

[MrFinkelstein]

Look, I've raced in Solo 1/2 and even a couple PDXs and cracked out for years on GT trying every tire and power combo I could to find that realistic feel of an actual car and these are just my opinions, but I'd like to add a little to the mix:
1. Sports hard are a bit of a joke. There are a ton of tires that show up at events, and almost all of the top times run a stickier tire rather than a cheap hard set because they handle the power output of the car much more predictably and that is a fact. A sports soft tire is much more realistic.
2. I use a ds3 (yes, because I'm a cheap ass and I'm not dropping that kind of money for a game accessory ), but I have used them and there's no comparison in the advantage of the wheels. They have a full range of user control and finesse that you physically cannot duplicate in the few mm of travel in a button. Proof of that is in every single time trial rankings since the game came out. So guys get over it. Its close but players shouldn't be shunned because they exercise the real world option of not running a Pep Boys sale tire vs a purpose built enthusiast tire like a Falken, or Potenza and the likes.

Just making a point and sorry again about the rant.


Just realized that I should've mentioned that this is more about the die hard use of SH tires instead of say the SS. I completely get the regulation of tire per competition. I'm simply saying that you don't build and prepare a car for competition with the goal of low and use a tire that is slippery in use because its as hard as a big wheel tire.

 

[Kaaosherra]

RS are realistic? This is the first time I've heard this. People who say there are tires in real life that have as much grip as the tires in the game, please explain, or give a link to a previous thread, or something.

I was under the impression that Racing Softs have an unrealistic level of grip, that sports softs are closer to real world slicks than any of the slicks in the game. If this is true, I understand perfectly well why people don't want to use racing softs, all the time, in every race.

 

[USSoccerFan96]

Because, apparently, anything that gives you the ever so *slightest* advantage (racing softs=better handling) is considered n00bish

 

[Nastradamus87]

It would save alot of argument if next time you would elaborate on your thoughts. People like me would dearly appreciate that =)

I do agree with the thought that they have the tire wear way wrong. Maybe a patch is in order?

I'll do my best going forward. It's hard to say something definitive without writing an entire essay though.
I definitely should have been more careful with the wording of my original post though.

 

[Nagan]

I don't see any problem with using them, especially when setting a lap record.

Tuning-wise, I stick to sports softs. I like to tune my cars road legal so something with tread is the way to go.

 

[JLawrence]

Kaaosherra, think of the RS tires on here like the 10 inch slicks that you see in SCCA sprint races, or maybe the tires they use for Qualifying in Formula 1. They give an amazing amount more of grip than your run of the mill race tire that is used for any sort of distance run, or in my case multiple events (I'm cheap, what can I say??) They wear out very quickly, much faster than say the ones used by cars in the Rolex Sports Car Series, but are very much real, like the Pirelli P Zeros that I mentioned earlier. Some one else mentioned the setting of the Super GT record at Suzuka, and the fact that the tires used there were as good if not much better than the RS ones on GT5. I suppose my biggest quarrel with them at this point is that they don't wear like they should, and you can run semi-long races with them on the game

 

[lowracin]

You guys are forgetting something very important, and forgive me if someone already brought this up....

TRACK TEMPERATURE

The success of a good cornering slick relies heavily on track temperature. Something I deal with when racing my own car on 'soft' tires, and a part of real racing that wasn't included in this game. Lets argue slicks on real cars, since you guys are so concerned with reality.

 

[watermelon punch]

Heaven help everyone on the real life highways if people think they're learning good "driving skills" from playing games like GT5. LOL
The tactics one can, (and many do), use to gold super licenses, is a frightening prospect.
I think you're more likely to learn real life social skills from playing The Sims. LOL

There are so many ways GT5 is a poor real life simulator. But one of the most important things about its serious flaw as a real life driving simulator, is something no amount of patches on GT5 can compensate.

From extensively looking at the opinions on slick tires, and the sources of those opinions... It seems to me that the people most knowledgeable about real life cars & real life racing (this is NOT me), seem to all agree that the racing tires in GT5 are actually provide less grip than real racing tires, when used in the manner racing soft tires were meant to be used (short term).
But that soft tires in the game (including racing & sports soft tires at least), wear far longer than they could in real life.

As for track temperature. One would've hoped this would be factored into the "weather" aspect, but apparently not.
Knowing that, one would hope that the tire grip, and tire wear, would be based on some fixed temperature all tracks are assumed to have.
But who knows?

Lets argue slicks on real cars, since you guys are so concerned with reality.

Oh, a better idea is arguing "street legal" in real life, and then relating it to the game.
I'm not saying anyone in this thread... But I've noticed that some people say they're choosing sports tires or comfort tires because that's what the car comes with in real life... or because it's street legal. And then they modify, upgrade, and tune the car out the wazoo.
How realistic is that I've always wondered...

 

[sprplay]

Hey, I just keep it simple:

If I want the thrill of of sliding arround, I take out the yellowbird on comfort soft. If I want an easy ride I take the 2CV on racing soft

Or to put in a more serious way: I just fit the tyres I feel comfort with in the current mood or event I am. So why bother about the "right" or "wrong" of a specific setup.

Just take it easy.

 

[GTWelsh]

Wow, sorry for pushing so many peoples buttons..

You didn't, that was just my opinion on the matter.

 

[GTP_roadrunner]

Race softs glue to the track if there's no tomorrow. I wouldn't call it shame, but they definitively don't need much skills. Not to talk about hiding a car's behaviour (may it good or bad), e.g. over- and understeer can be "cured" quite well with only putting rs on it.
With ss or lesser equipped the window between still gripping and losing it is quite small. That makes it lesser forgiving.

 

[Greycap]

Sounds like a fun challenge. I'll give it a go in a RAYBRIG NSX '06, stock except for racing soft tires.

Report back indeed, I don't think you'll stand a chance against Ito but that's no shame. I golded the Vettel challenges but was still five seconds off the mark in this one...

I'm not a tire expert, but it is my understand from reading the extensive threads on this site about tires in GT5 that racing soft tires provide lateral acceleration that is far above any tires used in any racing league and racing soft tires do not wear out faster than racing hard tires.

RS are realistic? This is the first time I've heard this. People who say there are tires in real life that have as much grip as the tires in the game, please explain, or give a link to a previous thread, or something.

I was under the impression that Racing Softs have an unrealistic level of grip, that sports softs are closer to real world slicks than any of the slicks in the game. If this is true, I understand perfectly well why people don't want to use racing softs, all the time, in every race.

Watch this. If you still think RSs give unrealistic grip I'll draw the conclusion that you simply can't be bothered to change your opinion even in the face of facts.



Try to repeat that in GT5. If RSs are as good as they're said to be every decent player should decimate the time with margin to spare but I don't think there are many people in this world, if any, to pull it off.

Some one else mentioned the setting of the Super GT record at Suzuka, and the fact that the tires used there were as good if not much better than the RS ones on GT5.

Very much better if the clip above is of any proof.

 

[JLawrence]

Thanks for the video Greycap. That is impressive, and a record I'm not even going to bother trying to usurp.

Anyways, track temperature! How can I forget! Now I'm not an expert on all things tires, especially slicks considering I don't run them myself, but yes, track temperature is a big player in grip and performance (not just for the tires, but for the car itself. If you want reality throw in temperature effects on the engine as well. there is a noticeable difference in engine performance from the heat/cold) Like I was saying, warmer track, warmer tires, more grip, and the reverse is true for a cold track for as long as it takes friction to heat them up.

But at the heart of it, I don't understand why, with this being a racing sim, you wouldn't want to run racing tires. Running street tires on the track is anything BUT realistic, which you have to realize, and if that was your argument I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense. I can understand using the various compounds for fun (I do it myself), but in essence, the cars that you take the time to tune and set correctly are purpose built race cars, because all that fancy bodywork is just for that little extra bit of aerodynamics, and really doesn't "make" the car. Therefore, to be as realistic and correct, shouldn't you all be on the racing compounds? I mean, unless you plan on driving the speed limit the whole way round

 

[Duman079]

Racing soft tires are the best in real and in GT5, but they dont last as long as hards ( racing tires are used in Super GT and Formula etcetera ) , I think the reason that a lot of members like Sport tires is because its more like a real life race. If you race your real car on a random track, you dont have racing tires but Sport ( or comfort ) tires. The difference is HUGE though. Racing tires are way better. But as I said, you wouldnt put RS on your real car.

I buy them for every car though, I buy Sports and Racing tires because I like joining lobby's with restrictions and its fun.

 

[yanaran]

I've done Suzuka in 1:52.0 in a GT500 car (online) and there's no way I'm just over 2 seconds slower than the fastest time ever, especially on such a long track. More realistic would be that I'm somewhere around 5 seconds slower, which would put Ito's time about 3 seconds behind what he could've done with "race softs", or 1-2 grades harder compound.

Then if you look at the qualifying times from 2007 when they're using actual race tires that lasts more than 1 lap, the fastest time is 50.4 and race times even slower. I'm sure if you asked some of the aliens in WRS div1 gold, they could dip well below 1:50 on race softs with a lot less practice than Ito has had.

 

[Duman079]

I've done Suzuka in 1:52.0 in a GT500 car (online) and there's no way I'm just over 2 seconds slower than the fastest time ever, especially on such a long track. More realistic would be that I'm somewhere around 5 seconds slower, which would put Ito's time about 3 seconds behind what he could've done with "race softs", or 1-2 grades harder compound.

Then if you look at the qualifying times from 2007 when they're using actual race tires that lasts more than 1 lap, the fastest time is 50.4 and race times even slower. I'm sure if you asked some of the aliens in WRS div1 gold, they could dip well below 1:50 on race softs with a lot less practice than Ito has had.

The reason that they are faster is probably that those cars are tuned. Ito runs it stock on RH probably as well.

 

[JLawrence]

The reason that they are faster is probably that those cars are tuned. Ito runs it stock on RH probably as well.

You really have missed like half of the discussion in this thread haven't you?

 

[yanaran]

The reason that they are faster is probably that those cars are tuned. Ito runs it stock on RH probably as well.

Who runs tuned? My car was stock and the times I've compared to WRS races I was 2-4 seconds behind the fastest drivers here on GTPlanet.

 

[Duman079]

Who runs tuned? My car was stock and the times I've compared to WRS races I was 2-4 seconds behind the fastest drivers here on GTPlanet.

Hmm, interesting. Maybe youre good lol, or you changed some specs. And gaming is much easier, there is so much feedback, oversteer and terror in real.

 

[audirs]

Race softs glue to the track if there's no tomorrow. I wouldn't call it shame, but they definitively don't need much skills. Not to talk about hiding a car's behaviour (may it good or bad), e.g. over- and understeer can be "cured" quite well with only putting rs on it.
With ss or lesser equipped the window between still gripping and losing it is quite small. That makes it lesser forgiving.

Everything in this post is wrong and nearly the exact opposite

You guys are forgetting something very important, and forgive me if someone already brought this up....

TRACK TEMPERATURE

The success of a good cornering slick relies heavily on track temperature. Something I deal with when racing my own car on 'soft' tires, and a part of real racing that wasn't included in this game. Lets argue slicks on real cars, since you guys are so concerned with reality.

Play night/day no weather Nurburgring. The morning grip is less than mid day.

There are two types of people who play GT5: motor sport enthusiasts and gamers.

Motor sort enthusiasts are the ones who use $300 Logitech G27 racing wheels, build cockpits using real car seats, read books on racing technique, follow real life racing, actually race in real life, etc. These people play Gran Turismo 5 the Real Driving Simulator for the purpose of simulating real life racing. To accomplish this they must use tires that provide realistic levels of grip (because cars behave very differently with racing soft tires than they do with comfort soft tires), hence why this thread exists:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160821&page=6#post4729193
To motor sport enthusiasts, going faster is not about adding more mods and better tires, it's about driving skills, and GT5 is a tool they use to improve their driving skills.

Gamer's, on the other hand, have no special interest in real life racing and learning skills that are translatable to real life racing. As many posters in this thread have expressed, their primary objective is to go faster - even at the expense of realism.

Motor sport enthusiasts will always insist on using realistic tires to preserve realism; Gamer's will not understand using anything but tires that give them the lowest lap time (racing soft).

/THREAD

Your post completely fails. There is more like 4. Enthusiasts that can not afford a race preped car and play the game instead and casuals that in hardly any way want to be competitive.

I run the stickiest tires allowed. If it's part of the game, I'll use it accordingly.

This^

 

[Nastradamus87]

Everything in this post is wrong and nearly the exact opposite



Play night/day no weather Nurburgring. The morning grip is less than mid day.



Your post completely fails. There is more like 4. Enthusiasts that can not afford a race preped car and play the game instead and casuals that in hardly any way want to be competitive.


This^

Sorry to burst your self righteous bubble, but you only listed two types - as I did - and their descriptions are similar to what I said.

Ever heard of something called a generalization? Try reading the rest of my posts before bashing me. I acknowledged and corrected your criticism.

 

[Stotty]

Try to repeat that in GT5. If RSs are as good as they're said to be every decent player should decimate the time with margin to spare but I don't think there are many people in this world, if any, to pull it off.


Very much better if the clip above is of any proof.

Proves absolutely nothing as you're assuming everything else in the game is modelled accurately... such as the cars outright performance or the amount of downforce it has.

 

[GTWelsh]

Proves absolutely nothing as you're assuming everything else in the game is modelled accurately... such as the cars outright performance or the amount of downforce it has.

Good point.

I personally think if there was even stickier tires, racing super mega ultra soft, people would use them.

 

[Stotty]

I personally think if there was even stickier tires, racing super mega ultra soft, people would use them.

Of course they would... anything to cover up a lack of driving skills.

I'm not saying it doesn't take any skill to drive quickly with racing softs, but compared to using something more realistic, it takes waaaay less ability.

 

[JLawrence]

Of course they would... anything to cover up a lack of driving skills.

I'm not saying it doesn't take any skill to drive quickly with racing softs, but compared to using something more realistic, it takes waaaay less ability.

We've already proven that they are realistic...

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

Proves absolutely nothing as you're assuming everything else in the game is modelled accurately... such as the cars outright performance or the amount of downforce it has.

Exactly! 👍 That video does not prove anything.

 

[Stotty]

We've already proven that they are realistic...

How exactly have you proven it?

 

[JLawrence]

Let me edit my statement, they are realistic in the amount of grip that they give, but not in the aspect of tire wear, or if you want to get really technical, track effects (though none of the tire compounds are). If you would like a technical scientific proof you'll have to ask someone else, but from personal racing experience I can honestly say that they feel very much like what is run by SCCA cars, and if you do some research you'll find that the tires used by Formula 1 drivers in qualifying are much more grippy still. I keep referencing them (mainly because I want a set so bad) but the Pirelli P Zeros when thrown on a car like the Spitfire that I race stick to the track so well that it's almost scary. Again though, you would have to actually drive the car to really understand what I mean.

There are many many variables to question about the tires, but the grip as far as I can tell is spot on. The real issue is the wear.