What Racing Games Are Better than GT5?
- Thread starter MowTin
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yes, but shift2 is a need for speed title developed in just over a year, GT5 was developed by polyphony digital over six years. we can't go judging a game until we play it, hasn't gran turismo 5 taught us anything?
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
- 9,295
- Duisburg
If there's one thing that it did teach me, it is that the time spend in development doesn't say anything about the quality of a given game.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Well, this is technically incorrect info.
Shift series uses Slightly Mad's own engine that has been in development since 2006 and presented in 2008 as "Ferrari Project" for PC. Backthen, Slightly Mad was still called Blimey (before Ian Bell actually sold it to himself).
Since there was no funding and Ferrari got legal because of complex issues, Project was dismissed, but engine was kept and further developed. When EA approached SM, they used the same graphics/physics engine to make first Shift.
Shift 2 is upgrading on the exact same engine. So, Shift 2 have actually been in development for 5 years if you look at the timeframe.
- 6,918
- United Kingdom
heh, 4.5 years.
shall we go over the "five titles released in that time"?
Tourist Trophy (PS2) - February 2, 2006 - a great game, but it's only different from GT4 in that includes bikes instead of cars.
Gran Turismo HD (PS3) - December 24, 2006 - the original tech demo for GT5. pretty much just an earlier build of GT5.
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) - December 13, 2007 - not much to be said here that hasn't been said before. it's a pretty massive demo, but it's still pretty much a retail release of a GT5 demo.
Gran Turismo (PSP) - October 1, 2009 - an adjusted port of GT4. it added a few features, yes, but it was, at it's core, a PSP port.
Gran Turismo 5 (PS3) - November 24, 2010 - an AAA racing game, the product of six year's development.
so even if we do count tourist trophy as a full game, that leaves only two AAA racing games released during the development time. meanwhile, turn 10 created three AAA racing games during that time, and is now working on the fourth. yes, you can argue why you think GT5 is better than FM3 (I'm not going to get into that in this post. I personally think FM3 is better, but I'd understand people thinking otherwise), but what you cannot argue is that turn 10 delivered three AAA racing game titles in the span of five years, with just a year to go before their fourth, while polyphony delivered a total of 2 AAA car racing titles in the span of nine years, with what looks like about two years to go before their third. this is a bit of a tangent, yes, but the fact remains that turn 10 is a more efficient team than polyphony digital, even if they do have nearly triple the staff.
also, polyphony didn't put any more work into their models than turn 10 did. in all likelihood, the car models were modeled in an extremely high resolution, including things like engine bays, back seats and trunks modeled, but they put lower resolution models on disc, with slightly higher resolution models included for use in photomode. near as I can tell, however, neither team modeled completely unique undercarriages, at least not with the real cars.
GT5 was not rated AAA by the way. In last four and 1/2 years they released 5 racing games. You could also say GT PSP had over 5 years of development. Turn 10 have released 3 games in 4 years and half years with what you say triple the staff. How does that make Turn 10 more efficient. AAA racing games are all based on opinion in reviews and reading the reviews you can see a lot of double standards going on.
The cockpits are actually are razor sharp. They wouldn’t look out of place at 4 times the resolution of full HD. You are confusing the lack of PS3 hardware power in-game to show that level of detail. The Premium models won’t be obsolete but can be built upon unless in the future there is a machine that can x-ray the car and model it directly from it in short time. This is why it will take a good 10-20 years before we see PD thinking about changing the Premium quality standard by much.
PD only used GT4 cars as pretty much the only old asset. They have day and night cycles, weather effects, track creator, online racing, mechanical and visual damage, realistic tyre smoke and Karting as all new features for GT5. If that is the least innovating game and most rehashed game in your opinion then so be it.
Well Turn 10 have been developing Forza games since 2001. If you think developing games on the PS1 gives PD the edge in terms of developing then like I say you are entitled to your opinion. I don’t think it gives much of an edge in know-how but Turn 10 only working only on the home consoles and with double then nearly triple the staff in a similar time frame I think gives them a bigger edge. What PD have done in the last few years I find a remarkable achievement.
Good to see a member on here who can see the bigger picture. Too many people on here use this logic: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=181399&page=6#post4850809
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Wouldn't that logic about Shift 2 being in development for 5 years also apply to GT5?
The Nomad Diablo for example is a car ported from GT3. When did development on that start? In 2000?
So... would it be fair to say that GT5 has been in development for over a decade ow because that's when the oldest of its assests were started to be developed?
- 6,918
- United Kingdom
Amar was talking about the game engine. I agree that most of GT5 car assets were created in the last 10 years and revamped slightly for the PS3. I would lying if I said they weren't. The 800 or so cars however are the only old assets that GT5 uses. It does not use the game engine they made 10 years ago, but one built from the ground up.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Does it matter? At the end of the day, nobody asks about how long the game engine spend in development, but how long the game did.
I mean, for all we know, GT5's engine could've been developed in a year or two and not have been touched since. Which doesn't really matter in the bigger picture.
And, from what I know of GT5's development, assets such as the track and cars were what took them so long, not the engine itself. That's what's always cited when the discussion about GT5's engine comes up, at least.
Additionally, what would that say about the abundance of games that are based on some kind of Unreal Engine (or were, a few years ago)? Or the Havoc Physics Engine?
At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter.
If it did spend 5 years in development, people should stop to go "ZOMG, NFS only one year development time, lololol!" at least
- 2,414
See that's the junk they tell us but believe me NOBODY is building stuff from "the ground up". Thats the same thing Microsoft said about Windows in the beginning. How DOS was dead. DOS was in Windows for the LONGEST. Believe me, there is some legacy code in there. What are you saying when you say you're building from the ground up? That your other stuff was crap? Oh it wasn't crap? Well then you don't throw away good bits of code, or rather huge chunks of code. And people throw "engine" around like it's an all-encompassing word. Which engine, graphics, physics, menu, A.I. , what?
At the end of the day it comes down to this. GT5 missed the mark in it's current state and that's that. It was hyped up by the company, the fanatic fanboys and President Bush and Obama and it failed to hit that mark. It aimed for the moon , missed the stars and landed in somebody's cornfield.
- 57
To the people that anticipate NFS Shift 2 - what are your feelings towards in-game damage but no pitstops? To me that's one of the most puzzling design choices in Shift and that combined with the horrible experience of Shift 1 gives me zero confidence in Shift 2.
I really wanted to like Shift 1 and the developer certainly is good, but it felt like EA demanded more arcadey physics and on top of that decided to release the game far too early. And we're not talking about the way GT5 was released. In Shift the faster cars bounced around on the track, the steering wheel moved by itself during replays etc etc.
Edit - also, why do you guys argue about development times? If some developer release a POS game I won't magically like it because they state that they developed it in one week. The same logic applies if a developer says they've used 50 years developing a game. That in itself means nothing.
I really wanted to like Shift 1 and the developer certainly is good, but it felt like EA demanded more arcadey physics and on top of that decided to release the game far too early. And we're not talking about the way GT5 was released. In Shift the faster cars bounced around on the track, the steering wheel moved by itself during replays etc etc.
Edit - also, why do you guys argue about development times? If some developer release a POS game I won't magically like it because they state that they developed it in one week. The same logic applies if a developer says they've used 50 years developing a game. That in itself means nothing.
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Couldn't have put it better myself. As for better 'racing' game than GT5. The list really is endless. GT5 is undoubtedly the game that best represents driving a car on console but the actual racing is very poor by comparison.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Considering how long it would take to realisticly fix some major mechanical damage IRL and the fact that you're not doing races that last for an hour at least every time, I don't think it's that bad of an issue.
I obviously would've prefered if they did include pit stops, but then again... Fixing a broken axle or blown transmission in a 30 second pit stop isn't realistic, either.
And it certainly wouldn't be fun to park the car for 15 minutes in the pit while it's being fixed.
That's pretty much what everyone seems to agree upon. This time around, EA has Hot Pursuit out, so that's where my hope for less interference from their side comes from.
Why couldn't they be building it from the ground up ? If the ps2 code doesn't work for the ps3 then i'm pretty sure that's building from the ground up.
Trying to recreate everything you once had but having to do it from scratch in a short time frame , when that previous code had taken 8-10 years to get right.
I don't know if ps2 coding works for PS3 or not, i'm simply saying if it doesn't then that would be building from the ground up
- 6,918
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Does it matter? At the end of the day, nobody asks about how long the game engine spend in development, but how long the game did.
I mean, for all we know, GT5's engine could've been developed in a year or two and not have been touched since. Which doesn't really matter in the bigger picture.
And, from what I know of GT5's development, assets such as the track and cars were what took them so long, not the engine itself. That's what's always cited when the discussion about GT5's engine comes up, at least.
Additionally, what would that say about the abundance of games that are based on some kind of Unreal Engine (or were, a few years ago)? Or the Havoc Physics Engine?
At the end of the day, though, it doesn't matter.
If it did spend 5 years in development, people should stop to go "ZOMG, NFS only one year development time, lololol!" at least
The engine itself took just as long to develop as the tracks and premium cars I believe. They had day and night cycles, weather effects, damage engines, shadows in the graphics engine, all being worked upon till the last minute they could release the game. Most of us are expecting PD to cut the standard cars from the game in its next iteration so the game would in theory have taken less years to make in terms of assets.
GT5 most likely does include legacy code but most likely not much of it is. It is like Windows 7 hardly resembles DOS OS. The old code was most likely not crap but outdated due to hardware improving significantly in recent years.
GT5 might have missed the mark overall but it was not really hyped by PD much but It lived up to what they claimed. Most of the hyping was done by the media and fans.
I see the second iteration of GT on the PS4 as the game I am waiting for, until then I will play each GT iteration and other racing games for fun, before I see the real deal, GT8 is or what ever it might be called. That is when I think PD will have had enough hardware power and time to deliver a game that is mind-blowing. I think it is another 6-10 years before we get to GT8 but it will hopefully look like reality and drive like reality and beat pretty much any affordable sim on the market in every department.
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- 57
Yeah, doing it realistically would be pretty boring.
But in Shift my windshield got cracked up very easily and the only way of continuing racing was to switch to bumper cam. Cockpit view was pretty nicely executed, but if I only get to use it for the first 5 minutes it seemed kind of useless.I won't buy Shift 2 no matter how excellent it'll review. If people I trust say it's quite an improvement over Shift 1 I'll gladly hand EA my money though. The reason I don't trust reviewers is that they seem to only play racing games for 1 hour or so.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
Meh, well, maybe I'm just being too simple minded on this.
To me, a game spends as much time in development as the developer is actually working on it. Which means tweaking an existing engines or coding new ones, doesn't really matter in my opinion.
It's either that or the 'a game is as old as its oldest asset'. Because, going by 'a game is as old as X asset' is just arbitrary.
- 2,414
Oh really, I believe you honestly I do. So if this is true please tell me what I'm doing wrong when I try to upload videos and check out the leaderboards. You know, some of the things they claimed this game will do but so far I haven't found out how, neither the other few million GT5 owners.
Hey, I'm not going to take your dream away from you. You can hold on to hope all you want, who am I to knock your fantasies. But having my taste of GT AT THE PRESENT tells me that all of that is just a pipe dream.
You know I just now recognize your ID. We were having that pm discussion going on. I'm not gonna spill it because that's bad etiquette also it would add fuel to the fire. Now if you wish to put it out for discussion it's fine by me. But I knew this line of discussion (fantasy stuff) seemed familiar. lol
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- 288
- amigo8833
The weakest link of GT5 is lack of fun and game element. GT5 focuses on simulating the driving physics, i.e. the way you turn, accelerate, brake, etc. It's amazing. In stark contrast, Shift series is trying to simulate the racing feeling. When you play it, the game makes you feel like car racing by distorted graphics, amazing sound, shaking views, and so on. It is like the way a fantastic action or horror film/movie makes you feel excited and say "It's coo!l".
Different strokes for different folks. They both have their edges. However, I guess GT series should have more story element and more challenging AI, with a view to competing with other GAMEs. This is not a promotion but I'll try Shift 2: Unleashed.
Different strokes for different folks. They both have their edges. However, I guess GT series should have more story element and more challenging AI, with a view to competing with other GAMEs. This is not a promotion but I'll try Shift 2: Unleashed.
That's a car model. Not a an entire game engine.
Can answer both of these for you.
Youtube Upload : He stated it took up too much memory and it had to pulled at the last minute, but they were looking at way's to be able to implement functioning properly.
Leaderboards : The Eurogamer interview that has been linked here many time's has Kaz stating that " Of course leaderboards and matchmaking are all on their way, they are all planned in the process "
They are obviously still being refined , as is the penalty system as without a good penalty system then leaderboards are useless.
I speculate that the leaderboard's come out with the Penalty fix, and PP system that is being introduced tomorrow the 18th.
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- steyr_amr
I'm going to say rfactor or rbr. And the one I play most which is Race07/RaceOn/STCC. Touring car racing seems to be the closest form of racing. It's not unusual when playing online to spend a whole race either following or being followed by another car by a few metres. GT5's problem stems from this; it offers too wide a variety of cars. I'm a G27 user, and Race07 works brilliantly with it. It's sublime.
rampageturke
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shirakawaa
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- GTP_shirakawaa
Do you people remember what Sony/PD stated when GT5 was last delayed?
On an afterthought, I'm sure they didn't seriously really think that.
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