Who's at fault?

[Crispy]

It's sick to see people defending the bikers.

The way I've seen it, one pulls out in front the SUV and brakes, the SUV can't do anything because if he swerved he'd hit more. No time to brake either as the bike pulled right in front of him.

They stop and then the bikers start slashing tired and violently attack the SUV and their occupants. Keep in mind the driver had his wife and FIVE month old child in the car. He gets the hell out of there because when psychos with knifes pose a threat to your newborn, you don't stick around. The bikers that got run over deserved it IMO, you do not attack someone like that.

Then they give chase, doing reckless things like running red lights and driving on the wrong side of the road and even the sidewalk. Anyone defending these guys is quite frankly crazy, they're putting even more peoples lives at risk.

 

[1241Penguin]

Keep in mind the driver had his wife and FIVE month old child in the car. He gets the hell out of there because when psychos with knifes pose a threat to your newborn, you don't stick around.

You would get the hell out of there regardless of whether your wife or child is in the car with you. I know I would.

 

[McLaren]

Much props to the responsible riders in Portland, and the Portland P.D., we never see stuff like this...... although we do have homeless problems, and that pointless "Occupy" fad that's been dead for awhile now....

IMO, anytime dummies pull a stunt like this, cops should come take their bikes, sell them to support schools & families in need. Another freeway takeover? Thank you again for donating all these bikes, and also for funding the Government thru fees & penalties.

These people are lucky no one died. 75 is one of the busiest freeways in the metroplex & runs directly into downtown Dallas. They did make arrests though, & the following year, had a large amount of enforcement out everywhere when they learned the group wanted to do it again. Things have calmed a bit in the last year or so, but any time something regarding a bunch of bikers makes the news, every rider gets targeted or followed by local PD. People in Dallas can't drive for crap & that alone turns me off wanting to buy another bike. But, the absolute lack of respect by other motorists when they get in vendetta mode (easily done if they see bikers usually taking advantage of their smaller size & squeezing in places to get ahead) makes it almost a guaranteed accident for a biker if he can't get away & that's the nail in the coffin for me.

 

[Imari]

Being a biker for more years than many of the posters here have since they were born I find all this sickening. I have been bullied many times by morons inside their cars and although i'm a peaceful personby nature it really gets into my nerves when someone risks my life using the safety of the tin can they drive. I felt many times a vicious will, not to risk another's life the same way, but indeed to use my helmet as a battering ram against some tin can or glass window. Back to this situation, how it all startedwill probably never be fully cleared, and the stupid way biker gangs usually act will make all assumptions be made against them. End result? The usual, guy in car got beaten by thugs, guy in bike gets paralizef for life.

I'm with you that car drivers usually have little respect for other road users on two wheels.

But there's a difference between saying that as a general statement, which which I would agree, and relating it to the event in this thread. The specific bikers in question here are the exact type of lunatic morons most car drivers assume all bikers to be. The bikers are the problem here.

If there weren't people like them making headlines, perhaps the public would view Sunday Joe out for a ride in the weekend sun with his mates a little more favourably.

 

[kikie]

Male testosterone at its best (not).

 

[Jay.]

Guy getting worked up cause he can't speed past a slower car, intimidates the driver.
Again biker is at fault.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Uh I'd say the bikers are at fault, and I'm glad he ran over them I'd have done the same for my family and infant child. He felt their well being was at risk, so for those earlier in this thread saying it was both need to evaluate again. There is many people that called 911 on these bikers, and I find it ironic that the family of the injured biker is devastated, when he could have just as easily been injured due to his own accord with this stunt bs. It's fine to do this at a closed course for a crowd but on public roads that aren't shut down, it's outrageous.

also if these bikers wanna play mad max I'm sure some of us would be willing to drive the Interceptor


For those that have never seen the great movie.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Yeah, bikers choose to put themselves in a more vulnerable position, they should be taking more precautions, not less.

As for the topic, I'm with the Range Rover driver, the only thing I would say, is he really appeared to nail it over the top of the bikers.. whilst I'd have rammed them too, I think it would have been wise to do it at a slightly slower speed to at least give those directly in front of the vehicle time to move. It's one thing knocking them off from the side, it's another to put them under your wheels. Once they gave chase, fair game, take them down, maximum force, brake test, swerve.. them hitting tarmac must me less dangerous than trying to drive over their legs with a 2.5 tonne SUV.

 

[Northstar]

Guy getting worked up cause he can't speed past a slower car, intimidates the driver.
Again biker is at fault.

Neither of those idiots should be on the road, yes the biker started it, but the driver of the car didn't need to reverse into the guy after the confrontation.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sums up my thoughts as well.

Well, that and bikers in DFW got a very bad reputation after this stunt was pulled. It's been a couple years, but it's left a permanent mark on how Dallas PD & other motorists acts towards bikers; there's no respect & they're treated as if they were in a car so people get dangerously close at times.

So are you siding with the bikers based on the perception or the generalization that most people don't care for them so obviously the dozens upon dozens pulling this crap on public roads aren't at fault against one SUV?

There is evidence incriminating them, and I don't know why they or anyone would think they aren't at fault. It's not like the SUV driver got beat and then took the video from the rider and edited to look like he was in duress and had to take extreme measures to protect him and his family.

*note: the second half was in general toward the thread the first part was actually a question to the quote.

 

[Carbonox]

Neither of those idiots should be on the road, yes the biker started it, but the driver of the car didn't need to reverse into the guy after the confrontation.

No other way to permanently get rid of the threat...

 

[photonrider]

I have a distinct feeling I will get flamed for what I said but regardless, What say you?

Would you feel flamed if I said it was the mob to blame?

A mob feeds on itself - a most disorderly pig unleashed upon an orderly food trough.

As more and more iReports come in, it is obvious that it was the mob's ego to blame. From the need to mass in public for attention, to the need to feed on their attention to themselves - in an area that involved others (the usual family in a vehicle) that were in no way connected to the mob, but instead failed to show worship.

All this won't affect the law books, though, as they come out to debate who fled the scene of the crime . . . or what was the crime in the first place. The squeakiest wheel will get the grease.

 

[Jay.]

Neither of those idiots should be on the road, yes the biker started it, but the driver of the car didn't need to reverse into the guy after the confrontation.

Maybe, but it's a responsive action he would have not taken if it wasn't for the knobsock biker.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I managed to watch the video earlier yesterday, and here is what I took away from it:

- The bikers were impeding traffic.
- The driver, under duress, had the right to use the SUV as an OFFENSIVE weapon against the bikers.
- The driver drove away at a high rate of speed to get away from the bikers, which he could do because he felt threatened by the bikers still.

 

[RocZX]

*language warning *


Hearing the guy in the spiked helmet talk about what happened it makes it more sound like the bikers fault.



NY Post has article on the the guy who organized the bike event, all his neighbors don't like them cause bikers terrorize the block.

 

[McLaren]

So are you siding with the bikers based on the perception or the generalization that most people don't care for them so obviously the dozens upon dozens pulling this crap on public roads aren't at fault against one SUV?

No, I am listing why I choose not to ride bikes anymore or consider getting back into it. Dallas is not a bike friendly city because no one gives anyone else respect, which puts bikers at a higher risk of being hit than they should be & thanks to the asshats who shut down 75, the reputation of being a biker has been tarnished forever to local law enforcement.

If you read back through the thread, I have already said these bikers deserve no sympathy.

 

[Hun200kmh]

No, I am listing why I choose not to ride bikes anymore or consider getting back into it. Dallas is not a bike friendly city because no one gives anyone else respect, which puts bikers at a higher risk of being hit than they should be & thanks to the asshats who shut down 75, the reputation of being a biker has been tarnished forever to local law enforcement.

If you read back through the thread, I have already said these bikers deserve no sympathy.

It's just sad when morons in bikes give bad rep that reflects in the attitude people take on every rider out there. It's very easy because "car&truck morons" don't get together in gangs, so their moronic behaviour is usually in solo mode and isn't "newsworthy".

I am a biker (by this I mean I use the motorbike every day. Only use the car when I need to travel with others or family) and luckily I live in a country where bikers don't have this bad rep so the sharing of streets and roads between cars/trucks & bikes is ... usually ... peaceful.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No, I am listing why I choose not to ride bikes anymore or consider getting back into it. Dallas is not a bike friendly city because no one gives anyone else respect, which puts bikers at a higher risk of being hit than they should be & thanks to the asshats who shut down 75, the reputation of being a biker has been tarnished forever to local law enforcement.

If you read back through the thread, I have already said these bikers deserve no sympathy.

I'd say that is most metropolitian areas, I love bikes but I wouldn't dare ride one in PHX because I've driven by a couple accidents on the freeway that involved a bike and a car. So I can see where you were coming from. With law enforcement I think it has more to do (from my experience) that many have a fast bike and feel they can easily outrun patrol units which obviously would irritate police.

I read through the thread it was a general question to gauge what you think beyond just this incident but why people may hate or not care to pay attention to bikers. I think it's due to things like this, but more likely just a lack of care by many drivers to all other motorist car or bike.


About the video on this page:
If that's the case then why didn't the editor keep that portion of the video in the edited copy of the driver engaging and influencing the situation from there forward. Also that still doesn't address the countless calls that police dispatch received about that gang during the time, so I guess those don't reflect on the incident either. For me I think this was like a bully video, they have egos because of their bikes, and thus attacked when they didn't get the road they felt entitled to. Now this would somewhat be fine but then we realize that they were stunt riding on public roads with legal and illegal vehicles -unless NY allows Dirt bikes on highways without any indicators and mirrors (they don't)- so that seems to be another peg against them. They probably wanted to tape their bullying like we see other groups do and thus put it up for the world to see, without realizing that "wow this is evidence incriminates us."

 

[Mikeybc]

I'm not sure what transpired before the video footage, but the SUV appeared to have time to apply his brakes and avoid a collision after the bike pulled in front of the SUV, having someone slow down in front of you for no good reason doesn't give anyone the right to hit them and should've taken all available measures to avoid contact including locking up the brakes if nessesssry. It didn't appear that the SUV even attempted to avoid hitting the bike; it was like he was being stubborn about maintaining his speed.

All in all though I think both parties share equal blame. Bikers driving like douchebags and the SUV not slowing down when he had a chance. That's just based on the one video I saw. My opinion can easily change as more evidence is revealed.

 

[McLaren]

I'd say that is most metropolitian areas, I love bikes but I wouldn't dare ride one in PHX because I've driven by a couple accidents on the freeway that involved a bike and a car. So I can see where you were coming from. With law enforcement I think it has more to do (from my experience) that many have a fast bike and feel they can easily outrun patrol units which obviously would irritate police.

I read through the thread it was a general question to gauge what you think beyond just this incident but why people may hate or not care to pay attention to bikers. I think it's due to things like this, but more likely just a lack of care by many drivers to all other motorist car or bike.

That has been an issue, yes, but after the 75 incident, bikers were profiled for several months because Dallas PD & surrounding counties had not been able to identify the 70+ bikers who took part.
As said, tension has died down, but there have been other run ins with local PD & bikers that has made local news & usually ends the same; divided opinions on bikers that end up with all of them seen as menaces.

As to the question, it's just a case of 1 or many bad apples ruining it for everyone else. There are so many videos of people pulling stunts on the highway & these initially end up becoming the most popular/news worthy stories that paint this picture that all sport bikers must be dangerous criminals (similar to the image that Harley owners are all fat, old guys in a biker gang) because that's the only time they are ever seen by the general population in the media. Your question initially caught me though as if I supported the bikers in New York just because I sympathized with my local riders who I know don't pull these stunts.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm not sure what transpired before the video footage, but the SUV appeared to have time to apply his brakes and avoid a collision after the bike pulled in front of the SUV, having someone slow down in front of you for no good reason doesn't give anyone the right to hit them and should've taken all available measures to avoid contact including locking up the brakes if nessesssry. It didn't appear that the SUV even attempted to avoid hitting the bike; it was like he was being stubborn about maintaining his speed.

All in all though I think both parties share equal blame. Bikers driving like douchebags and the SUV not slowing down when he had a chance. That's just based on the one video I saw. My opinion can easily change as more evidence is revealed.

Considering a full on sport bike is going to have better brakes especially when applied by a person who does tons of stunts (e.g. brake check) vs a Range Rover. I don't think I need to spell out what is going to happen especially after you saw it. It actually doesn't look like the SUV was full speed because you can tell he slowed down, if it was at highway speed like you seem to suggest that bike and rider would have been hood ornaments rather then a tap as seen in the video. Also it's illegal in the states (not sure about canada) to insight an accident on purpose as the bike did, the driver wouldn't have been at fault because the rider purposely caused an accident and reckless driving.

Also if he swerved he'd have taken out one of the several bikes swarming the SUV, as seen with the camera man being very close to the left side of the SUV. I don't see how either share the blame, even if the bikes weren't at fault you don't go chase down a car pull the guy out of it an then beat him and slash him and put him in a hospital. Seems to be a factor that you forgot, if they were hit or in danger they should have followed and got the plates and called authorities. Claiming a hit and run would have hurt the SUV driver much more, but obviously there is more to why they did this and it is easy to deduce (due to the screw up of the bikers) that it wasn't a simple bump from the suv. Also there has been many videos on here to show the antics of this gang, so you should probably look at that.

What you said.

I agree, this doesn't make me hate people who ride bikes, on a daily basis you don't see groups most if not all the time. Rather, you see 1 maybe a couple but not a big horde and so I don't feel a worry really. I still like bikes as well and I hope people don't generalize this because of one group like you said "ruining it for everyone else."

 

[Grayfox]

I'm not sure what transpired before the video footage, but the SUV appeared to have time to apply his brakes and avoid a collision after the bike pulled in front of the SUV, having someone slow down in front of you for no good reason doesn't give anyone the right to hit them and should've taken all available measures to avoid contact including locking up the brakes if nessesssry. It didn't appear that the SUV even attempted to avoid hitting the bike; it was like he was being stubborn about maintaining his speed.

All in all though I think both parties share equal blame. Bikers driving like douchebags and the SUV not slowing down when he had a chance. That's just based on the one video I saw. My opinion can easily change as more evidence is revealed.

It is the riders responsability to overtake and then merge back when there is a safe gap, the same appies to car drivers too.

If the driver braked and one of the riders hit him, the riders will blame the driver, same outcome will happen.

The bikers may have been speeding or the SUV driver was doing below the speed limit(cant tell since now speed on the video), either way the bikers could have gone around as they were going faster then the SUV, but they chose a fight which they lost and now they are crying like babies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is like that casey bullying video.

A kid minding his own business, a bully comes along starts a fight, gets taken down, and then the bully cries out "i'm the victim"

It is a typical bully attitude.

They act all high and mighty but cry when someone fights back and wins.

 

[a6m5]

How do you watch this conference video without laughing?

First, the brother. He'd do anything to protect his family, but if he kills a biker in the process, it defeats the purpose of protecting his family? Really? Who died? And he just said that he'd do anything, but he would draw the line, let harm come to his family, if it means killing the attacker? Interesting!

Helmet head also made me laugh. He says that Rover got hostile after being harassed. After the mirror on the Rover was destroyed during the attack, Rover chased the biker. Helmet head says that there were too many of them, it was going to lead to something bad, so they swarmed the Rover they had just attacked, tried to communicate him to calm down. Is that why I calm down like a mother trucker when I'm being swarmed by biker gang that just attempted to attack me & my car? Very calming, indeed!

Helmet head criticizes erratic driving, and even brings up speed limit. By the time the brother came back & started talking about how they need to figure something out to avoid this from happening again, they seemed totally serious, but I was in tears. It's like a toddler logic. Huh? How do you prevent this from happening again? Hmmm.......

I agree with Roc. They totally did themselves in with the clip I see here(I realize it may not be the complete vid). What complete hypocrites. And how thoughtful, considerate, gentle young men they are when they are not attacking a Range Rover full of family, and beating the 🤬 out the driver.

 

[Jay.]

... the SUV appeared to have time to apply his brakes and avoid a collision after the bike pulled in front of the SUV, ... It didn't appear that the SUV even attempted to avoid hitting the bike; it was like he was being stubborn about maintaining his speed.

All in all though I think both parties share equal blame. Bikers driving like douchebags and the SUV not slowing down when he had a chance.

Watch it again and watch carefully, the driver did slow down, but not enough, and I don't see how he can take any blame when the bikers were breaking several highway regulations around him making him nervous.

Now put yourself in his situation...
You are surrounded by bikers on all sides, cutting in front, too close behind you and virtually hanging off your fenders. Which one are you watching? The driver obviously didn't want to hit any of them, but being a responsible driver he immediately pulled over when he did.

When he stopped for the second time a biker tried to open the car door. That biker was on TV, blaming the driver. African-American, nearly six foot tall with a good build. The driver pulls away again, and I don't blame him. How intimidated would you feel?

Oh, and the biker gave the news network his nickname..... CHOPPA!!


@ a6m5 - Some of the interviews I've seen with bikers and relatives have been hilarious. Most have just shown and confirmed what knobsocks they really are.

 

[a6m5]

@ a6m5 - Some of the interviews I've seen with bikers and relatives have been hilarious. Most have just shown and confirmed what knobsocks they really are.

They bully & intimidate other motorists, but when one of them is crippled by the vehicle they forced stop & attacked, they cry foul, playing the victim. It's almost like hearing a rapist blaming the victim for way she dressed.

I almost said that I'd like to meet their parents, but we already got to observe that one mom crying about her son being ran over like an animal...... by the vehicle they blocked in & attacked......??? 💡

 

[Carlos]

They bully & intimidate other motorists, but when one of them is crippled by the vehicle they forced stop & attacked, they cry foul, playing the victim. It's almost like hearing a rapist blaming the victim for way she dressed.

I almost said that I'd like to meet their parents, but we already got to observe that one mom crying about her son being ran over like an animal...... by the vehicle they blocked in & attacked......??? 💡

👍👍👍

Exactly this, they got what they asked for and it ended badly for them. I think the bikers are still lucky because in that last shot of the video, when the car has no way to go.... but back... What would you do, if your little kid and wife were also sitting in that car..

 

[Mikeybc]

Watch it again and watch carefully, the driver did slow down, but not enough, and I don't see how he can take any blame when the bikers were breaking several highway regulations around him making him nervous.

Now put yourself in his situation...
You are surrounded by bikers on all sides, cutting in front, too close behind you and virtually hanging off your fenders. Which one are you watching? The driver obviously didn't want to hit any of them, but being a responsible driver he immediately pulled over when he did.

When he stopped for the second time a biker tried to open the car door. That biker was on TV, blaming the driver. African-American, nearly six foot tall with a good build. The driver pulls away again, and I don't blame him. How intimidated would you feel?

Oh, and the biker gave the news network his nickname..... CHOPPA!!


@ a6m5 - Some of the interviews I've seen with bikers and relatives have been hilarious. Most have just shown and confirmed what knobsocks they really are.

Yeah, I do see your point about the SUV driver possibly being distracted by the other riders moments before the impact.

I did watch the video 3 times but just on my tiny iPhone and didn't notice the SUV slowing...the bike slowing down in front of the SUV at a greater rate made the SUV's speed appear constant to me. After watching on my laptop I saw it better.

 

[Sanji Himura]

About the video on this page:
If that's the case then why didn't the editor keep that portion of the video in the edited copy of the driver engaging and influencing the situation from there forward. Also that still doesn't address the countless calls that police dispatch received about that gang during the time, so I guess those don't reflect on the incident either. For me I think this was like a bully video, they have egos because of their bikes, and thus attacked when they didn't get the road they felt entitled to. Now this would somewhat be fine but then we realize that they were stunt riding on public roads with legal and illegal vehicles -unless NY allows Dirt bikes on highways without any indicators and mirrors (they don't)- so that seems to be another peg against them. They probably wanted to tape their bullying like we see other groups do and thus put it up for the world to see, without realizing that "wow this is evidence incriminates us."

That is why I said that the driver of the SUV had every right to use his car as an offensive weapon against those punks. It just so happened that one of the idiots was at the wrong place at the wrong time and got hurt in the process. If it were a bystander that the SUV hit, then yes, he could very well have faced charges.

 

[dxm8975]

Well I still don't grasp why the gang of bikers on the road did target the SUV just about to sweep by their side so to be exact I can't take a stand on either side to claim and illustrate which is wrong and which is not - However, at the first glance of the video in which what blackbird explains shows up, it looked like the bunch of riders assailed the Range Rover as it happens, and interfered the way of the vehicle so as to swarm in the highway occupying the road. And for the time being they kept on pursuing the car even right after one of them test-braked in front of the car and one of them banged the body of the car with their own helmet at their second trigger - until the SUV finally escaped out of the harsh situation at the end of the video.

Taking into account the fact that the vehicle ventured to run over the biker who stopped in front of him abruptly just to flee from a devastating situation of being surrounded by the knot, the driver of the car is at fault.
However, I suppose that the attempt didn't happen or he didn't bother to jeopardize them deliberately if those bikers did conform to traffic rules and didn't go overboard with attempting to display showy stunts on the road just ahead of them... Therefore regarding that point the bikers are more daft than the driver in my view.

 

[Carbonox]

I still don't grasp how any sensible person can see this as being the SUV driver's fault.