Who's at fault?

[eight6er]

Why exactly?

First, the only reason he ran over many bikers(which he didn't, but whatever) is because they started threatening him after the initial incident, had they just waited like civilized people the only injured party would have been the idiot who cut infront of the SUV.

Second, had they not acted like little kids on a playground the story would have been "Man runs over motorcycle" and that's it, all the blame would be on the SUV, the sympathy with the biker. However since they did act like little kids on a playground and chose to push around the SUV all the blame is on them and all the sympathy is with the SUV.

Also, it's hard to take someone serious when they are wearing a motorcycle helmet with spikes on it.(Aimed at guy from press conference)

I'm just going by what is visible in the video in the OP. The rover hits the back of the bike. Then the rover is not visible until it emerges running over bikes. The bikers chase him trying to make him stop he runs over more bikes and people. So I was happy to see his windows get smashed in. I was just saying what my initial reaction was to the video when I watched it without knowing anything else about the story.

 

[Mikeybc]

Yeah and I set you straight on that along with others, but it still seems you don't fully wish to leave your first opinion.

Yes, you did. People can do unpredictable things and make poor decisions when they're panicked, and I can understand why he did panic. I just feel he's still going to have a long legal battle over this...which is unfortunate.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes, you did. People can do unpredictable things and make poor decisions when they're panicked, and I can understand why he did panic. I just feel he's still going to have a long legal battle over this...which is unfortunate.

I don't, the riders took part in illegal activity, and the police are not going to press chargers. There may be a civil case but even that I doubt he'll lose. My issue with your wording is you insist on saying the SUV driver made a poor decision by running over them, we know the outcome of this which was beating and slashing the SUV driver. They were already trying to pull him out of the car before he ran them over, which is why he did it. He was afraid to be hurt and was afraid he wife would be hurt. He needed to stop the attackers, and I would have done the same damn thing.

 

[Blackbird.]

Would you feel flamed if I said it was the mob to blame?

No, because I believe the bikers were in the wrong. My post was conservative because I had gotten some nasty comments about my views somewhere else, which I found hard to believe. So I posted it here to see if I really am that callous but 90% of people here seem to agree.

There are a few that are defending the bikers and calling the SUV driver an idiot, why that is I will never know. No matter the scenario if you feel your life is threatened deadly force is acceptable to protect your own. Vehicles can be used as a weapon guys. [/captainobvious]

 

[1241Penguin]

The action I was happy about was the smashing of the SUV's windows by the bikers at the end of the video. After the SUV driver had run over many bikers.

So you think the Range Rover should have just stayed there like a moron and let the bikers attack?

 

[Carbonox]

No, because I believe the bikers were in the wrong. My post was conservative because I had gotten some nasty comments about my views somewhere else, which I found hard to believe. So I posted it here to see if I really am that callous but 90% of people here seem to agree.

We all have. Don't worry, it only makes us stronger.

 

[Kent]

I doubt this will even see a single day in civil court.
The video is too well spread now and it would be nearly impossible to exclude it from evidence. Once this video is shown to a judge the chance of an actual court date being allowed for trial is nearly 0.
Moreover, the riders were engaging in illegal activity from the start to the end.

Maybe, and that's a big MAYBE, this will fly in NY but I can say for sure that in any state that honors a citizens right to defend him/herself and their family this sort of behavior will not likely result in any sort of punishment.
Frankly, there aren't enough squids who would attend jury duty to get a civil ruling in favor of the biker gang victims (though I wouldn't be surprised to see a ruling in favor of the gang's victims).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I doubt this will even see a single day in civil court.
The video is too well spread now and it would be nearly impossible to exclude it from evidence. Once this video is shown to a judge the chance of an actual court date being allowed for trial is nearly 0.
Moreover, the riders were engaging in illegal activity from the start to the end.

Maybe, and that's a big MAYBE, this will fly in NY but I can say for sure that in any state that honors a citizens right to defend him/herself and their family this sort of behavior will not likely result in any sort of punishment.
Frankly, there aren't enough squids who would attend jury duty to get a civil ruling in favor of the biker gang victims (though I wouldn't be surprised to see a ruling in favor of the gang's victims).

Exactly my point from the drop of this thread, and it seems others can't realize that simple factor.

 

[eight6er]

So you think the Range Rover should have just stayed there like a moron and let the bikers attack?

I don't see the bikers attacking, maybe you have a better screen than I do. The first attacking visible to me is the range rover doing the attacking. I don't see the bikers doing anything to the range rover besides driving close by and generally looking intimidating as there are many of them.

 

[Jay.]

I don't see the bikers attacking, maybe you have a better screen than I do. The first attacking visible to me is the range rover doing the attacking. I don't see the bikers doing anything to the range rover besides driving close by and generally looking intimidating as there are many of them.

If you had the means to break the video down and examine it carefully you'd see it differently.

Things people didn't notice. << This site has a basic breakdown of the initial incident for those who are still doubting who to 'blame'.

This site has only picked up a few things. Try it yourself and you will see that the drivers mirror had been smashed from the first time the driver stopped.

There are also pics all over the net that show the passenger window has been smashed, the passenger side front tyre is shredded, (not likely to be caused simply by running somebody over), a dent in the passenger side roofline. Once the driver had been pulled from the vehicle the rear window was smashed and the back door of the SUV (WHERE THE CHILD WAS!) had been opened BY THE BIKERS. There was no need for this damage if they just wanted the driver.

Yet people still claim there was no intimidation or aggression.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Also I have yet to see the nay sayers talk about how there was a police officer in the group of riders.

And there was contact/provocation brought on by the bikers before being run over by the SUV. They attacked and that is the reason Lien hit them, not because he was crowded and felt the only way to break out was to hit. They were actually swinging at the windows as they later do in the video. Thus they attacked this man and his family three separate times throughout the video. I suggest eight6er go to the local eye doctor.

 

[Mikeybc]

I don't, the riders took part in illegal activity, and the police are not going to press chargers. There may be a civil case but even that I doubt he'll lose. My issue with your wording is you insist on saying the SUV driver made a poor decision by running over them, we know the outcome of this which was beating and slashing the SUV driver. They were already trying to pull him out of the car before he ran them over, which is why he did it. He was afraid to be hurt and was afraid he wife would be hurt. He needed to stop the attackers, and I would have done the same damn thing.

If I knew there was a person blocking my vehicle I don't think I could bring myself to run him over possibly killing him to get away to avoid getting beaten up and escalating the situation even further. Possible the SUV driver didn't know he was about to run someone over ? Maybe.

And yes, it's the civil suits I was referring to.

 

[Carbonox]

If you had the means to break the video down and examine it carefully you'd see it differently.

Things people didn't notice. << This site has a basic breakdown of the initial incident for those who are still doubting who to 'blame'.

There are also pics all over the net that show the passenger window has been smashed, the passenger side front tyre is shredded, (not likely to be caused simply by running somebody over), a dent in the passenger side roofline. Once the driver had been pulled from the vehicle the rear window was smashed and the back door of the SUV had been opened BY THE BIKERS. There was no need for this damage if they just wanted the driver.

Yet people still claim there was no intimidation or aggression.

Thank you. It's quite embarrassing how some people basically act on their emotions upon reading Mieses' family's side of the story and blindly assuming he was actually helping an "injured" biker when he got run over. Well well, turns out he was just a thug being a thug.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The breakdown on that site is excellent, I can see more clearly now who's at fault

 

[Jay.]

Link to the video clip in full 720HD.

Watch it in full screen. Slow it down, pause, and replay. You'l be suprised what you can see.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If I knew there was a person blocking my vehicle I don't think I could bring myself to run him over possibly killing him to get away to avoid getting beaten up and escalating the situation even further. Possible the SUV driver didn't know he was about to run someone over ? Maybe.

And yes, it's the civil suits I was referring to.

Then you must not have a family, I have one and my child is younger then his so...

 

[Jay.]

Also I have yet to see the nay sayers talk about how there was a police officer in the group of riders.

It was brief info given in a statement from a NYPD official.

Sky News about an hour ago.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It was brief info given in a statement from a NYPD official. The officer was not on duty, but normally works undercover. I am unable to find the source or any links to support the info at the moment.

You're right CNN talked about it in the same capacity you did. I bring it up to even further crush the nay sayers that say the SUV is at fault bikers were in the right.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Here is another news article that mentioned about the undercover detectives doing nothing at the scene :

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/celebrity-lawyer-gloria-allred-represents-biker-injured-suv-driver-attacked-upper-manhattan-article-1.1476093

 

[Carbonox]

That picture with Mieses lying down on the road kinda gives me the chills. I actually tried to feel sorry for him, before realizing that there's no better ending to a thug's career than to be confined to a chair and to never ride a crotchrocket again.

 

[a6m5]

After watching the chase, I don't know how anyone comes to the conclusion that driver of the Range Rover wanted to hurt anyone? If that was his intention, being crowded like that by all those bikes, the best he can do was seriously injure one rider?

Give me a full-size SUV, and put me on the road packed with thugs on bikes. Barring some freak occurrence(s), I should be able to, not injure, but end the lives of multiple riders without too much trouble.

Hit & run comment is a complete joke. If fleeing from immediate danger to the lives of you & your family is a crime, so be it. Also, let's not forget that he did tried to get help from 911.

 

[Imari]

If I knew there was a person blocking my vehicle I don't think I could bring myself to run him over possibly killing him to get away to avoid getting beaten up and escalating the situation even further. Possible the SUV driver didn't know he was about to run someone over ? Maybe.

And yes, it's the civil suits I was referring to.

If that person is one of the ones attacking you though, it's a bit different.

Could I run over an innocent child to get away from a beating? Almost certainly not.
Could I run over a maniac with a gun pointed at my head? You betcha.

The reality is somewhere between the two, but considering how threatening the gang was I think it's likely the driver considers the guy he ran over to be closer to the maniac than the innocent child.

 

[Mikeybc]

If that person is one of the ones attacking you though, it's a bit different.

Could I run over an innocent child to get away from a beating? Almost certainly not.
Could I run over a maniac with a gun pointed at my head? You betcha.

The reality is somewhere between the two, but considering how threatening the gang was I think it's likely the driver considers the guy he ran over to be closer to the maniac than the innocent child.

Oh for sure I'd mow them down if a gun was involved, but someone beating on my car and wanting to try and beat me up in a fist fight then no, but that's just me. Taking extreme action like that is like walking on thin ice, especially if there is no video evidence to support their claim. One could easily find themselves behind bars taking such action prematurely. The SUV driver is fortunate there was video.

 

[Carlos]

Oh for sure I'd mow them down if a gun was involved, but someone beating on my car and wanting to try and beat me up in a fist fight then no, but that's just me. Taking extreme action like that is like walking on thin ice, especially if there is no video evidence to support their claim. One could easily find themselves behind bars taking such action prematurely. The SUV driver is fortunate there was video.

I'm not sure. His wife was in the car with a kid, that is information enough. You simply don't just drive over a couple of people on the road..

 

[Northstar]

Oh for sure I'd mow them down if a gun was involved, but someone beating on my car and wanting to try and beat me up in a fist fight then no, but that's just me. Taking extreme action like that is like walking on thin ice, especially if there is no video evidence to support their claim. One could easily find themselves behind bars taking such action prematurely.

If it was one person beating on the car, you would have a point. However, we are talking about a large group of people beating on the car as well as using knives to slash tires and using their helmets to smash the windows. In some aspects that scenario could be more dangerous than one person with a gun as you have people attacking from all sides.

The SUV driver is fortunate there was video.

Granted I don't think it would be as black & white as it is, but I'd imagine most would side with the SUV given the other 911 calls about the group as well as the known details without the video evidence.

 

[Mikeybc]

I'm in no way trying to defend the bikers here, just questioning the possibility wether or not the SUV driver made the wisest choice in his situation, maybe he did, not sure if anyone who wasn't there truly knows for sure though. It's just another opinion.

 

[Northstar]

I'm in no way trying to defend the bikers here, just questioning the possibility wether or not the SUV driver made the wisest choice in his situation, maybe he did, not sure if anyone who wasn't there truly knows for sure though. It's just another opinion.

There were wiser choices (backing way off the moment a large group of aggressive idiots pulled along side for one), but it's easy to think of those choices when you have plenty of time to think about it in the safety of your home(I believe the saying "hindsight is always 20/20" applies here).

 

[Gonales]

I can't say I think the biker got what he deserved, but... If someone ever threatened my family like that I know what I'd do. Exactly the same.

The bikers escalated this situation, and they put the SUV driver in the place where he HAD to defend his family.

Edit: Considering people are talking about law-suits, here are my 2 cents. The SUV driver should get reimbursed for the damage to the car, and the shocking experience for the family members in the car. Problem is: Suing the gang collectively is quite difficult. The person who brakechecked the RR should be held responsible for the WHOLE incident in my opinion.

 

[Blackbird.]

I'm reading alot of these posts about what other options did the SUV driver have. I don't see any. Other then going full steam ahead and running over a couple aggressive bikers the only option I see is to sit there and hope they leave. What can he do? Plead his case through the smashed window: "I'm sorry I did not brake in time for you after brake checking me and not to harm my family"? Sorry, not an option for me.

The breakdown on that site is excellent, I can see more clearly now who's at fault

I agree, that made it even clearer to me that they showed aggression for NO REASON. Not to mention watching it once again the SUV was already braking considerably as soon as the video started. Then in HD full screen I see Cruz or Mieses (I think Cruz) throw a punch either at the window or the side view mirror. Tire must have been slashed at the same time. That's when Lien decided to flee-- that, ladies and gentlemen, is self-defense. Mieses was not attending an injured biker because no one was injured!

I'm in no way trying to defend the bikers here, just questioning the possibility wether or not the SUV driver made the wisest choice in his situation, maybe he did, not sure if anyone who wasn't there truly knows for sure though. It's just another opinion.

Well I know for sure now Cruz was aggressive after the 'incident' if there even was one. It's unlikely the SUV's tire was shredded from running over the bike, I suppose it's possible but the tire coming off shortly after giving chase supports the claim that it was slashed initially. Who knows what else was happening on the passenger side, the side that was slashed. I don't have a son/daughter but even if it were me it'd be hard to just sit there and let them do it for fear of them escalating even more. Like someone mentioned earlier... mob mentality.

Edit: Considering people are talking about law-suits, here are my 2 cents. The SUV driver should get reimbursed for the damage to the car, and the shocking experience for the family members in the car. Problem is: Suing the gang collectively is quite difficult. The person who brakechecked the RR should be held responsible for the WHOLE incident in my opinion.

I agree. It would be very difficult to charge everyone involved but I'd be fine with it all falling on the dunce that started all this crap, Cruz. He can live with the fact that his actions let to one of his buddies trapped in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Yes the driver was the one that ran him over, but like a broken record: out of self-defense for his daughter's, wife's, and own life.

 

[Blackbird.]

Guy getting worked up cause he can't speed past a slower car, intimidates the driver.
Again biker is at fault.

Both parties are at fault. The driver was doing fine, he was being harassed. Up until he decided to ram them when he could have left fine he wasn't in immediate danger or threatened where he needed to use his vehicle as a weapon... stupid move. I don't know where these guys get off trying to enter vehicles on their own though.