Why 99.9% of all players won´t gold the Nordschleife Circuit Experience!

[jbrennen]

I gotta say, I found it quite hard, at least the way I've been going at it.

Wheel and pedals, auto transmission, and TCS 5 for the whole lap. Not sure if the TCS 5 is a help or a handicap. (My thought is that I can just mash the accelerator as soon as I'm past the apex -- less thought about finessing the throttle.)

Got all the individual sectors done, and the full lap down to 6:39.xxx without a whole lot of time into it, but those last 2 seconds took me about 12 days of trying. I've got 5,380 km in this game so far, and at least half of that was spent on this challenge.

About an hour ago, finally got a 6:37.071 for the gold.

 

[HornetX1]

I won't ever get it because I won't even bother to attempt it.
It's a tedious track to me that I tend to avoid tbh, I don't like doing tracks of that length where you have to be dialled in for that long, especially when I'm no TC on controller in a game that feels like driving on ice with a controller.
& Also, it has no bearing on platinum progression, or sport mode ranking, so there's no reason for me to go anywhere near it tbh, even if I was capable of beating it.

 

[Arveena]

I have roughly 900 lap experience on real life Nordschleife, so I'm fast and slow at the same time (BTG 7:05 with 991.1 3RS and PSC2 R). That was mostly on road cars, so I have only little experience with race cars on Nordschleife (mostly RSR, GT3 R, GT4 and Clubsports). Anyway, even to my eye, some bits are weird. For example, in this game, you need to maintain full throttle throughout the first right turn on Hatzenbach, but as far as I know, this is very uncommon even for top tier SP9 VLN drivers. They usually lift off for 0.5 second right before the curb, and slower drivers usually take much longer lift off. And this kind of things keep repeating itself.

From Quiddelbacher-Höhe to Flugplatz, you do roughly 0.5 second of half lift in game, but that's a bit more aggressive than most VLN drivers (closer to 0.8s of full lift). On Schwedenkreuz, you take the left turn with 75-90% throttle in game, but most GT3 drivers actually lift off about the time they started to turn their steering wheel left. Maintaining the full throttle throughout Klostertal (even though you cleared the Mutkurve pretty fast) is also weird. If you failed to clear the Mutkurve fast enough, then it's possible but otherwise partial lift off would be much more common.

So those gold times require much tighter timeframe for input as well as significantly more throttle overall, but somehow ended up slower time.

I also live close to the ring and have lots on experience on the track. Lots of parts are very wierd grip wise. Or straight up wrong. Wippermann feels very wrong you can ride the exit kerb which is way to long way to hard etca. Also exit breidscheid is an easy flat corner IRL you don't even think about it and can overtake on every part without lifting (the small left kink) in the game you can easily spin out. Schwedenkreuz etc as you already mentioned on the other hand has way to much grip. Kerb in Brünnchen also feels to narrow and the whole sections feels off.
The right kink before Kallenhardt has zero grip for whatever reason it's also a very easy corner in reallife. Pif paff and beloff s which are a challenge in reallife are easy flat and you can take kerbs no problem which would be a death wish IRL if you attack them as hard with as you can attack them in the game. Line also does not matter because it's so easy flat
Also low speed grip is horrendous in the GT3 I can floor my Roadcars even with Michelin pilot sport 4s with more HP easily in some places but I need to be very careful in game with a GT3 with slicks on...
Attacking the kerb on the inside of Adenauer Forst ist also way to easy and way to fast in the game etc all in all very weird driving the track in the game

 

[snailburner]

I could gold this easy if I had the game.

 

[R3V]

Also exit breidscheid is an easy flat corner IRL you don't even think about it and can overtake on every part without lifting (the small left kink) in the game you can easily spin out.

I can floor my Roadcars even with Michelin pilot sport 4s with more HP easily in some places but I need to be very careful in game with a GT3 with slicks on...

LOL. This is why I'm staying away from track experience. They'll surely patch the physics.

 

[manion]

I'm staying away from track experience because it looks like they will be adding rewards in a patch in the next month

 

[xMAXIx79]

I also live close to the ring and have lots on experience on the track. Lots of parts are very wierd grip wise. Or straight up wrong. Wippermann feels very wrong you can ride the exit kerb which is way to long way to hard etca. Also exit breidscheid is an easy flat corner IRL you don't even think about it and can overtake on every part without lifting (the small left kink) in the game you can easily spin out. Schwedenkreuz etc as you already mentioned on the other hand has way to much grip. Kerb in Brünnchen also feels to narrow and the whole sections feels off.
The right kink before Kallenhardt has zero grip for whatever reason it's also a very easy corner in reallife. Pif paff and beloff s which are a challenge in reallife are easy flat and you can take kerbs no problem which would be a death wish IRL if you attack them as hard with as you can attack them in the game. Line also does not matter because it's so easy flat
Also low speed grip is horrendous in the GT3 I can floor my Roadcars even with Michelin pilot sport 4s with more HP easily in some places but I need to be very careful in game with a GT3 with slicks on...
Attacking the kerb on the inside of Adenauer Forst ist also way to easy and way to fast in the game etc all in all very weird driving the track in the game

You are certainly correct in much of what you write. My last visit to the ring was many years ago and I never had the ambition to build a track tool, partly because of the long journey.

For me it feels a lot better in GT7 than in all other parts before.
Also, as far as I know, GT7 does not claim to replicate this "laser measurement" route 1 to 1 in the game like some other titles.

Based on my memory, however, it is currently quite good, as I said, especially in comparison to other GT parts.
What is really missing are the FFB details, for example. were much more present in GTS.

Anyway, I'm having fun there so I can get as far "on the ring" as I'm possibly able to. Also, honestly, I would have given a **** disassembling my Cupra there.


By the way:
from me a new time WITH TCS!

 

[GBalao888]

The real problem isn't the Nurburgring, actually it's Le Mans, High Speed Ring and Autopolis. Tried to go for gold and I don't think I can get any faster.

 

[Jewel Runner]

Hmm funny... you're not really fast, but don't blame the TCS because otherwise you're too slow...
So I drive it with TCS and to get the best possible sector times for me I mostly used 1 or 2 depending on the sector... only in one sector I don't use TCS, but that's a ride on the cannonball...

So if you would like to recommend NOT to use TCS to others because it is so slow, you should perhaps first create times that others drive WITH TCS.

Sorry but it had to be real. Almost everyone says the M6 on the Ring is a beast especially in 3rd and you drive it without TCS but you are slower than many others... Maybe you should use TCS and change something else about your driving.

Don't be so sure. If a person knows the car and track well enough, TC will slow them down. TC is the safer option for this track and car combo but drive it enough and get used to it and no TC is the fastest.

 

[kjeldsen]

I need 10 seconds compared to my GTS lap and it smells like a TCS 1 setting to close to gold. I personally am very very happy they went for a challenge.

 

[xMAXIx79]

The real problem isn't the Nurburgring, actually it's Le Mans. Tried to go for gold and I don't think I can get any faster.

Here we are talking ONLY about the Nordschleife. And here you say as understand "TCS slowing soo much, if you use TCS, Gold are impossible" !

Don't be so sure. If a person knows the car and track well enough, TC will slow them down. TC is the safer option for this track and car combo but drive it enough and get used to it and no TC is the fastest.

How much time do we want to discuss this?

Have you read AND understood what I write? You have read AND understood what I am quoting?


I don't think you have in this context.


The point is NOT if TCS is better/faster/slower... No! The point is... If he's not using TCS and can't get faster than someone using TCS... Then, in my opinion, he's not fast enough and maybe he can get much faster WITH TCS.
Therefore, the advice should definitely not use TCS as it is said to make it too slow or stay put.


The other point we shouldn't talk about here is what is faster, TCS or NO TCS.


My own opinion...


Very very good riders can certainly be faster without TCS, but ONE mistake and a weaker rider WITH TCS can get a better better on that lap if it's just about that one lap.

It's very simple, TCS allows you to make some "mistakes" on the throttle or steering. Without TCS, each "bug" can be the last for a long time.

 

[gambleboyen]

I've no issue with it being hard, hard to gold is good. What I don't get is why they used the same cars from GTS for most of these. Do they think people aren't playing both games, or have amnesia? Why not challenge us with a different experience of the circuits, make it a little bit fresher instead of delivering the exact same thing as GTS, only harder?

Or maybe they just don't expect or want experienced players to do these at all, they're for new players only.

I'm quite dissapointed that there are so many similarities to GTS. The cars and the music and the overall look of the game. You'd think they could do something different seven years later.

 

[zdravkelja]

The time in GT Sport was very forgiving, but this sounds like a proper gold challenge. In Sport I did it in 6:34.244 on a gamepad, so I'm curious to find out how the change in physics will influence my time in GT 7.

 

[Lomic]

Still more than 30s to find to obtain gold, I have a lot to practice...

 

[m76]

Probably because 99.9% won't even bother with any of the circuit experiences at the current payout. At the minimum we should get 100.000cr and a cool gift car for gold. For the nordschleife 250.000cr or even 500.000cr wouldn't be out of proportion either.

 

[Sasek]

Nah... I think it is way too easy. I did the full lap in the second attempt, beating the gold time by few seconds. I think it's good that there are challenges that take a long time to get done and there are also some that only a handful of players will do. If everyone has everything in gold in every test, where is the challenge? Where is originality? There is no one to boast of such gold because all my friends have made it.

 

[Christian_C]

After reading this I decided to give it a go this afternoon. Controller user with TC at 0 and ABS at mild.

I know there’s been some conversation about TC already and some, let’s say interesting opinions... But I feel this would be much easier for most people if the TC worked more like it does in reality on these GT3 cars, as in, it’s performance positive rather than detrimental as it is here. It’s important in the context of this challenge. You lose stacks of time unnecessarily if you leave the TC on even the lowest setting as it is very intrusive (like the kind of setting you’d use if you were suffering heavy deg in reality). While some might think it’s ok, my opinion is turn it off and run corners a gear higher or short shift, you’ll get better results.

Sectors 1, 4, 6 (surprisingly?) and 8 are the ones I struggled with most. Arguably, sector 1 was the steepest hurdle though and I felt this same way about the mission in the SLR here. I don’t think I’m particularly slow but more that the game’s very punishing for running wide of even a single apex as you’ll lose a lot of momentum and the car’s not exactly got the most responsive frontend on it.

For the lap itself though, I don’t really agree that it’s more difficult than other circuit experiences. I made a conservative first lap to create a ghost and to my surprise, ran a 6:38.2, if I’d known I’d be so close on the first lap I’d have pushed harder lol!

It was after the first try that it got harder because I got drawn into chasing the ghost and shunted on my next 2 proper attempts. After taking a minute I got the time done on attempt 4 as I just mirrored my approach from the first attempt while pushing a little harder in the 9-10-11 sectors of the lap to improve by just under a second and run a 6:37.2

Total time invested was probably just under 2 hours? So easily less time than I spent on S-10 first time out!

For me, I think that the Bathurst circuit experience is more difficult with smaller margin for error but this one was good fun all the same and certainly not trivial.

 

[Lomic]

Tried again in GT Sport today, just to compare. Oh men, that is really more blurry in terms of driving, the feeling was really different. I had troubles controlling the car which gave the sensation to drive on a wet road compared to GT7.

Did two 360, a lot of tires in the grass, hit poor Barry R, but still did the time for bronze anyway 🤔

My best time is around 7min12, while gold is at 6min57, I should be able to get gold much more sooner in GTS than in GT7 but I don't enjoy the feeling of driving that car, much less than in GT7 so I am not sure I'll give another try.

I should check the settings and the assists, may be I have none in GTS while having some in GT7 (at least a bit of TCS and ASM) maybe it is the reason I find the car harder to drive in GTS.

 

[MonoTonouS]

The issue is , manual shifting is inferior to automatic for 99% of people. I bet you guys can get gold if you used automatic and focused on your line and throttle control .

 

[xMAXIx79]

I had the same experience, when we had server down here, I tried to do this task on gold again in GTS. It felt incredibly awful and indirect to drive this M6 in GTS, also other cars that I had previously handled well in GTS e.g. Supra GT3 were suddenly no longer drivable for me. You can get used to the new driving physics very quickly. And it feels a lot better/more real now, with a few exceptions.

 

[The Cake]

Ok the thread title is a bit controversial but I´ll explain why I say this.

I am an experienced Gran Turismo driver with about 20 years in the series. I was successful in many competitions during this time and made it twice to the GT Academy Final in Silverstone. I´m able to do Top 100 lap times in GT Sport and I did thousands of laps around the Nordschleife.
This is my most favourite track and I would consider my times very good there. I´m always within a range of 4-8 seconds to the world records depending on car and class.
So I went for the Nordschleife Circuit Experience and expected a one try gold. This wasn't the case and it took me several attempts to beat the gold time of 6:37.800 only by a tenth. The same challenge in GT Sport has a gold time of 6.57.900 so over 20 seconds more, while the car physics in GT7 seem to be about 5 seconds slower per lap.
So I did more laps and tried the best I could do and got a 6:34.090. Of course this lap wasn't perfect and there will be aliens doing sub 6:30 but I guess no average player will ever get close to the gold time.
From the result of past events and daily races on the Nordschleife I guess there are only a few thousand players around the world who could beat this gold time. If we assume GT7 will sell several million copies this are less than 0,1% of all players.

But will u do a tomahawk nordschleife lap on gt7?

 

[Grimm6Jack]

The issue is , manual shifting is inferior to automatic for 99% of people. I bet you guys can get gold if you used automatic and focused on your line and throttle control .

Manual shifting in the hands of an experienced driver is going to be faster than automatic.

It's pretty much the same case with Traction Control. I am slower with it than without it. But, I am also more mistake prone.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Also low speed grip is horrendous in the GT3 I can floor my Roadcars even with Michelin pilot sport 4s with more HP easily in some places but I need to be very careful in game with a GT3 with slicks on...

totally agree on this one.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The hardest part is doing a full lap. It ends up becoming a mental game more than anything. You need to be careful but you also need to be fast which is hard to do when there's a large amount of risk involved.

 

[xMAXIx79]

The issue is , manual shifting is inferior to automatic for 99% of people. I bet you guys can get gold if you used automatic and focused on your line and throttle control .

Absolutely right, I'm a complete failure at manual transmission, there are moments when it fits just fine and then... another nasty fail.. 1 gear too far down or up, or shifted too late or too early.. I get because just don't feel for it purely. to ALWAYS do it right. But yes, the M6 feels much better on the Nordschleife with MT, especially when braking from corners, because you can downshift and brake the rear axle.
And the T248 is really loud when shifting, which neither me nor my wife like. I drive in the office, but you can still hear it throughout the house.

 

[gthelmi2398]

Nordschleife was not the problem. The fourth lap I completed around the whole track was gold. Just 145 Kilometres in One Lap Challenge compared to some other tracks was not so much. This challenge wasn‘t that hard for me.

Some of the sectors were very hard and I beat gold just with some thousands.

Trial Mountain and Deep Forest were my track with much problems.

 

[TiMcF1]

Also low speed grip is horrendous in the GT3 I can floor my Roadcars even with Michelin pilot sport 4s with more HP easily in some places but I need to be very careful in game with a GT3 with slicks on...

I did this circuit experience yesterday and this is something that frustrated me alot. The M6 GT3 just doesn't seem to want to turn at any speed lower than 100mph.

I use a DS4, but I'm sure the low speed understeer is what makes the 1 sector such a challenge.

Could this be KY's personal input? I remember him being interviewed about his experience driving the Walkenhorst m6 GT3 at the Nordschliefe back in 2016. He mentioned(and not quoted 100%) "that the M6 GT3 becomes easier to drive the faster you go". KY is not the most experienced racing driver, but perhaps we are experience this car as Kaz sees it and not a general consensus on what it feels like to drive from different people?

Like many I'm trying to do away with my GTS habbits. And so before I can really get good at this game I need to get the feeling for it

However because of this characteristic, driving this car reminded me of driving the SF's in GTS. Feels like a chore to get them rotated at very low speeds. I Haven't had much experience driving a whole load of diffferent cars in GT7, the SF is the fastest thing I've driven during the S license test. My living legend and Red Bull continues to gather dust (just Not really interested) but i think the more cars I drive and the more driving I do in general on GT7 I think i'll be able to surpass my GTS pace

 

[xMAXIx79]

I did this circuit experience yesterday and this is something that frustrated me alot. The M6 GT3 just doesn't seem to want to turn at any speed lower than 100mph.

I use a DS4, but I'm sure the low speed understeer is what makes the 1 sector such a challenge.

Could this be KY's personal input? I remember him being interviewed about his experience driving the Walkenhorst m6 GT3 at the Nordschliefe back in 2016. He mentioned(and not quoted 100%) "that the M6 GT3 becomes easier to drive the faster you go". KY is not the most experienced racing driver, but perhaps we are experience this car as Kaz sees it and not a general consensus on what it feels like to drive from different people?

Like many I'm trying to do away with my GTS habbits. And so before I can really get good at this game I need to get the feeling for it

However because of this characteristic, driving this car reminded me of driving the SF's in GTS. Feels like a chore to get them rotated at very low speeds. I Haven't had much experience driving a whole load of diffferent cars in GT7, the SF is the fastest thing I've driven during the S license test. My living legend and Red Bull continues to gather dust (just Not really interested) but i think the more cars I drive and the more driving I do in general on GT7 I think i'll be able to surpass my GTS pace

Just my observation and feeling about the M6.

I'm only a B class driver, but I think that some of my times show that I can be equal to some A class drivers..

The M6 drives great once you figure out its "quirks". He doesn't like being braked too hard, it overloads his front wheels extremely, which doesn't mean his brakes are bad, on the contrary I think they are downright sharp and tend to lock the wheels too much.
It steers much better if you release the brake earlier or harder. "HE" so the M6 likes it when you let it roll, it gets stiff when you want to force it into corners to be fast. He prefers to shift his weight forward but let the front wheels roll as freely as possible.
Some sections go at a significantly higher speed when you let it slide than when you try to brake in or around the corner.

 

[TiMcF1]

It steers much better if you release the brake earlier or harder. "HE" so the M6 likes it when you let it roll, it gets stiff when you want to force it into corners to be fast

This is the style I need to adjust to I reckon. I mean look I use a DS4 so I can only speak from a personal experience. But quite early in to GT7 I felt it a lot harder to get the results I wanted from trailbraking. I remember just needing to have a steady hand(finger) to ease off the L2 slightly to trail brake in GTS.

A 6:32 isn't bad but that's the time I managed with B.O.P. GT3's on RH in GTS. The M6 in this experience is unrestricted, so I'm a little bit unsatisfied with my driving atm.

 

[Carl Sagan]

I'm spinning on the first corner most of the time which should be impossible. i just can't feel the grip on this car at all.