Will PD Even Bother Making Another Game?

[UKMikey]

I wonder how many people who bought PS4 Pros for GT7 will buy PS5s for GT7 again if Sony yank support from their existing machines. Given the long gestation time between iterations of the franchise they may find themselves caught in the crossgen trap again should Sony pull the same trick with GT8.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I wonder how many people who bought PS4 Pros for GT7 will buy PS5s for GT7 again if Sony yank support from their existing machines. Given the long gestation time between iterations of the franchise they may find themselves caught in the crossgen trap again should Sony pull the same trick with GT8.

The bigger question here, is who in their right mind bought a PS4 Pro for GT7 when a PS5 (albeit difficult to find at the time without being very persistent), was the most current console?

And FWIW, I think Sony has probably probably pushed their new-gen console rollout date back a couple years, due to COVID and the resulting lack of availability. Besides, I don't see a real demand for a PS6 for at least a few years, unless Microsoft or someone else forces Sony's hand.

 

[UKMikey]

The bigger question here, is who in their right mind bought a PS4 Pro for GT7 when a PS5 (albeit difficult to find at the time without being very persistent), was the most current console?

Hindsight is 20/20.

Really hope the PS4 version is good, I just bought a used PS4 Pro just for GT7. I remember reading about Gran Turismo 7 originally being developed for the PS4 and only started developing it for the PS5 in 2017.

I'm honestly going to wait to see how it performs on ps4 Pro and if it performs well I'll immediately be getting a ps4 Pro and gt7 100% since its impossible to get a ps5 atm for retail and I sold all my consoles years ago when I moved to pc. So excited for gt7 tho.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Yeah….


Maybe a very, very, small fraction of an already small minority decided to go that route. And one of them bought one used for probably cheap, and the other only considered buying a PS4 pro (we’ll never know if they did or not), because they decided to go the PC route earlier. No one even remotely en mass, was buying any console other than a PS5 for GT7. And they weren’t all that difficult to get for MSRP, if you even kind of put the work into it. I somewhat tried for ~6 weeks, and was able to get three of them, all from different outlets mind you. I have one to my nephew for his birthday, sold one to my sister in law, and kept one.

 

[UKMikey]

I still wonder how many existing PS4 owners will upgrade their consoles solely to continue playing GT7 when it was sold to them as a cross platform game though. One would've thought they'd have done this at launch if that was their intention. Hopefully plenty will if Sony's plan is going to work.

 

[pornomazinger]

I fully expect a current gen only GT. I’d say 2025, but what do I know.

I love GT7, but it’s clearly held back by last gen constraints.

So you expect a PS5 only GT8 on 2025?!
You are very optimistic don't you think?👉👈
And please tell me,
will I get full-fledged campaign, endurance and B spec?
👉👈
🥲

 

[Artremis]

I wonder how many people who bought PS4 Pros for GT7 will buy PS5s for GT7 again if Sony yank support from their existing machines. Given the long gestation time between iterations of the franchise they may find themselves caught in the crossgen trap again should Sony pull the same trick with GT8.

The people who bought PS4 Pros in 2022 to play GT7 are pretty much statistically insignificant. If they took that long to jump onto PS4, Sony isn't going to count on them to show up for PS5 any time soon.

 

[UKMikey]

The people who bought PS4 Pros in 2022 to play GT7 are pretty much statistically insignificant. If they took that long to jump onto PS4, Sony isn't going to count on them to show up for PS5 any time soon.

I doubt every racing game fan who expected the game to be released on PS4 waited until 2022 to buy it. All they had to go on was that PD usually release two GTs per console generation.

I'm not sure why Sony didn't just release the game as a PS5 exclusive like they originally said they were going to do if they want everyone to upgrade to a PS5 to play it. Doing it halfway through the game's lifecycle seems kind of half-assed but their supply shortage seems to be over now so I guess it's possible for more of those 110 million PS4 owners to buy new consoles if that's what they want to do.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I doubt every racing game fan who expected the game to be released on PS4 waited until 2022 to buy it. All they had to go on was that PD usually release two GTs per console generation.

I'm not sure why Sony didn't just release the game as a PS5 exclusive like they originally said they were going to do if they want everyone to upgrade to a PS5 to play it. Doing it halfway through the game's lifecycle seems kind of half-assed but their supply shortage seems to be over now so I guess it's possible for more of those 110 million PS4 owners to buy new consoles if that's what they want to do.

They should have done just that…. Release it as a PS5 exclusive. But just like I said then, as I still say now, it was a very smart business decision by Sony to force PD to release it as a cross gen title, at the time.

My guess is that Sony Video Games was carrying a lot of uncollected investment debt with GT7 for a while. Covid was a curve ball they didn’t see coming, and as a result, they had to make decisions that helped their bottom line. Making the call a year or more in advance (my educated guess), to change GT7 to a cross platform title, was the right move…. But it also was probably its main cause for GT7’s delay in release - while the nerds at Sony figured out how they could make a game of GT7’s scope, work on a base PS4.

I consider it an Apollo-13-NASA-like-act-of-improvisation, that they got it to somehow work.

 

[ScottPuss20]

So based on this whole discussion, PD will bother making another game because there is still money to be made. However they must move away from the PS4 to ensure that the franchise does continue. Sony have to commit also.

 

[RobertHammer]

If there wasnt any covid/chip shortage , there wouldn't be any crossgen or very minimal and the GT7 would been PS5 only
and yes of course there will be another GT game

 

[Ande3200]

Question is just when they first will announce gt8, i belive it could happen either 2024 or sometime 2025 and release sometime between 2026-2027, i wish for a sophy integreted career mode, and 600+cars and 40+ tracks

 

[Dave A]

So based on this whole discussion, PD will bother making another game because there is still money to be made. However they must move away from the PS4 to ensure that the franchise does continue. Sony have to commit also.

Of course they'll make another game. But as regards to moving away from PS4, at some point, they'll have to. The question is, do they do that with GT7 or GT8. For me, it makes no sense to update GT7 to cease PS4 support at the time. That would be a lot of work just to annoy half your player base. And I cannot see, even with a decent update, a move like that for 2 year old game (which it would be at least, by the time such an update happened if at all) would result in worthwhile increase in PS5 sales.

 

[Nathan88]

Question is just when they first will announce gt8, i belive it could happen either 2024 or sometime 2025 and release sometime between 2026-2027, i wish for a sophy integreted career mode, and 600+cars and 40+ tracks

Sony no longer announce titles long in advance. Even PSVR2 support was announced weeks before the hardware launch. Yet we now know it was in development from the very earliest days of GT7.

I expect PD are a good 2-3 years into PS5 Gran Turismo. Whether that’s GT7 Spec 2 or GT8. They’ll also be one of the first studios hands on with PS5 Pro.

I’ll be surprised if PD aren’t part of the PS5 Pro showcase in Q4 ‘24. And I expect they’ll have something to release within 12 months of that reveal. It’s pretty clear PD are holding back a substantial amount of content (cars, tracks, events) compared to what a studio of their size can produce.

We’ve had a full PS5 remake of TLOU. PS5 only versions of TLOU2 & HFW are in the works. Wouldn’t surprise me if GoT also gets this treatment. GT7 is different due to the online competitive element. But you can always separate Sport mode from single-player. Especially if the focus is on a graphical bump, Sophy etc.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Sony & PD generate revenue from new game releases and service titles. GT7 is neither of those, we're moving into the residual sales phase with discounting & bundling. There was a PSVR2 bump, probably the same from the movie, and perhaps one more marketing push later this year.

The PS4 market is done. Money is to be made from PS5 owners, and the early adopters (big spenders), who'll pick-up a PS5 Pro. 3 years is the accepted period for a sequel, if the dev is efficient enough to deliver on that. IE Spider-Man 2 will release almost 3 years to the day Miles Morales released. We're also in an era where ND remade TLOU for PS5, they're about to announce a TLOU2 PS5 remaster, and Guerrilla are working on a HZD PS5 remaster.

Come Q4 '24 all the major Sony studios will be looking to take advantage of PS5 Pro. At that point it makes little sense for PD to continue PS4 GT7 support beyond maintenance. Late '24, into '25 is when I expect a switch to PS5/PS5 Pro only support. Either with a new GT7 sku or GT8.

It's the same content going back to GT5. It is. People can moan about it all they want, it won't change the fact that it's a rehashing of the same content again and again. They didn't remake the GR3 class from GT Sport to GT7, right? Does anyone dispute that?

Quick, which version of GT is this photo from? No cheating...Can you tell from the photo alone?



"the dev" is whomever Sony can spare at the time. PS4 GT and PS5 GT is the same GT. They won't "switch support" because it the same support. GT7 released in 2022. GT8 will see the light of day in 2025 at the earliest, probably Christmas. If the past is any indication, they might release a lower cost version of the PS5 and a PS5 only version to help drive sales.

 

[Nathan88]

It's the same content going back to GT5. It is. People can moan about it all they want, it won't change the fact that it's a rehashing of the same content again and again. They didn't remake the GR3 class from GT Sport to GT7, right? Does anyone dispute that?

Quick, which version of GT is this photo from? No cheating...Can you tell from the photo alone?



"the dev" is whomever Sony can spare at the time. PS4 GT and PS5 GT is the same GT. They won't "switch support" because it the same support. GT7 released in 2022. GT8 will see the light of day in 2025 at the earliest, probably Christmas. If the past is any indication, they might release a lower cost version of the PS5 and a PS5 only version to help drive sales.

Pretty much everything from GTS onwards was rebuilt from the ground up. While GT7 shares a number of assets with GTS, there is a notable difference in tracks that have been upgraded, ie Tsukuba. All new tracks such as Watkins Glen & Road Atlanta are a step above what’s gone before. Le Mans is one track in need of an update. Car models will be good enough for PS6 and possibly beyond. Photo mode models are better than what we see in gameplay.

A PS5 GT won’t need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Optimising GT7 for PS4 meant many of the advantages of the PS5 (SSD etc.) couldn’t be utilised much beyond loading times. The next step is to use higher quality textures and in-game assets on existing 3D track models. While using RT to push lighting to the next level. Full RT is something that can be pushed more on PS5 Pro.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Pretty much everything from GTS onwards was rebuilt from the ground up.

Demonstrably false statement. Not to mention that they openly stated that the changes they made between GT5 and GT6 was to allow the engine to grow with the platform. Asset wise, this is also visibly false. From GT5 onward, yes. From GTS onward, absolutely not.

While GT7 shares a number of assets with GTS,

...like almost all (barring the new cars and tracks, obviously)

there is a notable difference in tracks that have been upgraded, ie Tsukuba. All new tracks such as Watkins Glen & Road Atlanta are a step above what’s gone before. Le Mans is one track in need of an update. Car models will be good enough for PS6 and possibly beyond. Photo mode models are better than what we see in gameplay.

That's funny, we have no idea if a "PS6" will even exist or what the process of creation will be by that time, so saying that the models will be "good enough" is WAY reaching. Still, the GT5 models have been good enough for GT7 (both PS4 and PS5 versions) so maybe they'll keep going.

Keep in mind, streaming is growing. "PS6" might be a completely different platform focused on a different medium of delivery, that might actually require a downgrade in graphics....we do not know. Until it's in the hands of actual developers, we don't know anything of the requirements.

A PS5 GT won’t need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Optimising GT7 for PS4 meant many of the advantages of the PS5 (SSD etc.) couldn’t be utilised much beyond loading times. The next step is to use higher quality textures and in-game assets on existing 3D track models. While using RT to push lighting to the next level. Full RT is something that can be pushed more on PS5 Pro.

"optimizing" Gt7 for PS4? You have it backwards. It's not like this game was built for PS5 and they ported it down to PS4.

And ray traced lighting is a coding feature, not an assets feature. If they really go hog wild with ray tracing, they could literally completely rerelease GT5, with NO changes at all, GT5 will look spectacular and it won't cost them any more than the coding time of a couple of people.

Which brings it back to the original question, will they make another. Since the DO NOT NEED to reinvest in all that content, the likelihood is high. If what you believe to be true, was in fact true, they would never invest in another version of this game.

 

[Ande3200]

All cars before gts has been made from scratch, only the cars that was in gts has been carried over, gt7 offered 86 new cars at launch witch are not bad considering the work that goes into the cars, but only 4 more tracks than gt sport lives a lot more to be desired since then we only have 3 tracks witch is 7 locations more than sport currently have and 140 cars more than sport after the new update dropping on monday,

We will be at 478 cars in total after next update, they are not making as many cars that has been claimed through so content has to be somehow hold back

The biggest problem is not the amount of tracks or cars through, its career mode that dont take use for content we already have in the game, a new gran turismo game will absolutly come in few years i dont doubt that for a second, we proably will not see a good integration with sophy until the next game releases

Gt7 have so far not had any push from other racing games so they dont need to so as much as they could have, with release of forza motorsport we could see more effort from pd with drop of new content, but considering how far apart they are with release that might not have much effect

 

[Yard_Sale]

Demonstrably false statement. Not to mention that they openly stated that the changes they made between GT5 and GT6 was to allow the engine to grow with the platform. Asset wise, this is also visibly false. From GT5 onward, yes. From GTS onward, absolutely not.

...like almost all (barring the new cars and tracks, obviously)

That's funny, we have no idea if a "PS6" will even exist or what the process of creation will be by that time, so saying that the models will be "good enough" is WAY reaching. Still, the GT5 models have been good enough for GT7 (both PS4 and PS5 versions) so maybe they'll keep going.

Keep in mind, streaming is growing. "PS6" might be a completely different platform focused on a different medium of delivery, that might actually require a downgrade in graphics....we do not know. Until it's in the hands of actual developers, we don't know anything of the requirements.

"optimizing" Gt7 for PS4? You have it backwards. It's not like this game was built for PS5 and they ported it down to PS4.

And ray traced lighting is a coding feature, not an assets feature. If they really go hog wild with ray tracing, they could literally completely rerelease GT5, with NO changes at all, GT5 will look spectacular and it won't cost them any more than the coding time of a couple of people.

Which brings it back to the original question, will they make another. Since the DO NOT NEED to reinvest in all that content, the likelihood is high. If what you believe to be true, was in fact true, they would never invest in another version of this game.

PS6 will be a console, for a couple of common-sense reasons IMO:

The next logical step for gaming, is to move away from PC/Console's.... and to stream everything through internet. But that's at least a decade away, as the internet speeds and connectivity need to improve across the board worldwide, for that to be financially lucrative to the different powers the be. Not to mention, there’s no real palatable demand for “streaming gaming” yet.

Having said, surely the next generation of Playstation is already well passed the development phase, and most likely being beta-tested right now.

PD/Sony would be dumb not to make a GT7 Spec B in the next year or so. Doesn't seem like it would take much in the way of work for them, and will only be a money-maker.

 

[A Night Away]

Car models will be good enough for PS6 and possibly beyond.

I remember when people said this about GT5 and 6's Premium models, how they were 'future proof'.

To still be saying this, honestly, after that was proven false is just hilarious.

 

[Dave A]

I remember when people said this about GT5 and 6's Premium models, how they were 'future proof'.

To still be saying this, honestly, after that was proven false is just hilarious.

They were/are, they're still being used in GT7. All you're seeing are higher LOD's and new texture and materials work.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I remember when people said this about GT5 and 6's Premium models, how they were 'future proof'.

To still be saying this, honestly, after that was proven false is just hilarious.

It hasn't been "proven". There's been examples that show a difference, but I can dig up examples to show it's the same content.

The obviously higher resolution cars are the ones in the Legendary garage. You can see undercarriage bits and pieces, etc. Those cars are new.

Again, dollars and sense, why remake a Ferrari 430, for example. Or the Charger? The challenger looks exactly the same to me. Even if some parts are improved, like the Dino tail lights, it's still not the same as an entire car model in terms of man/hours.

The business model now is pretty clear. Rest on the content that has been made because we will pay for it.

 

[Techlet]

They were/are, they're still being used in GT7. All you're seeing are higher LOD's and new texture and materials work.

I guess that's what they meant by "rebuilt from the ground up since GTS".

 

[Voodoovaj]

I wonder how many people who bought PS4 Pros for GT7 will buy PS5s for GT7 again if Sony yank support from their existing machines. Given the long gestation time between iterations of the franchise they may find themselves caught in the crossgen trap again should Sony pull the same trick with GT8.

There is not support to "yank" It's the same support. It's probably the same build process with the game detecting whether its play on PS4 or PS5 and flicking it's own options on or off.

 

[UKMikey]

There is not support to "yank" It's the same support. It's probably the same build process with the game detecting whether its play on PS4 or PS5 and flicking it's own options on or off.

That's what makes me sceptical about PS4 owners no longer being able to play the original game should PD release a "remastered" version.

 

[Famine]

There is not support to "yank" It's the same support. It's probably the same build process with the game detecting whether its play on PS4 or PS5 and flicking it's own options on or off.

That's what makes me sceptical about PS4 owners no longer being able to play the original game should PD release a "remastered" version.

It's my understanding that the PS5 version of the game is designed to stream environments directly from the SSD, whereas the PS4 version has to load them from the HDD into active memory - which requires a significantly different approach to file storage and access, much as games designed to run different processes through the different Cell cores on PS3 require redevelopment for PS4/5 remasters - and that it was indeed designed for PS5 before being ported to PS4, hence the change in advertising from it being a PS5 exclusive to not being that by mid-2021.

 

[Nathan88]

Demonstrably false statement. Not to mention that they openly stated that the changes they made between GT5 and GT6 was to allow the engine to grow with the platform. Asset wise, this is also visibly false. From GT5 onward, yes. From GTS onward, absolutely not.

...like almost all (barring the new cars and tracks, obviously)

In your rush you're misreading what I'm saying. After GT6 most content, be it cars or tracks, where binned or comprehensively upgraded. It's why GTS was so light on content at launch. Cars and tracks can now be carried forward from GTS, to GT7, and onto GT8. With only the need to improve texture work or certain assets. While cars can run at higher LOD on better hardware.

There's an interesting video on course building and optimisation by PD.

That's funny, we have no idea if a "PS6" will even exist or what the process of creation will be by that time, so saying that the models will be "good enough" is WAY reaching. Still, the GT5 models have been good enough for GT7 (both PS4 and PS5 versions) so maybe they'll keep going.

Putting aside the fact PS6 has already been leaked in legal documents and AMD's roadmap for 2028. It goes without saying PS6 is locked in as the console market is bigger than ever for brands like Sony. As for 3D car models, when we can zoom in and read the text on light units, I think we can say with some certainty they'll be good enough for many years to come. It's going to take PS6 to run full LOD models and full RT Path Tracing. PS5 Pro will give us a nice intermediary step with extensive use of RT in gameplay.

And ray traced lighting is a coding feature, not an assets feature. If they really go hog wild with ray tracing, they could literally completely rerelease GT5, with NO changes at all, GT5 will look spectacular and it won't cost them any more than the coding time of a couple of people.

A fully RT'd GT5 would look great, particularly in replays, just as some old PC games look great when modded. But we've moved on and people expect the granular detail GT7 offers. It's that obsessive detail that has made me appreciate some pretty mundane cars and look forward to quirky models like the ambulance.

 

[Famine]

Putting aside the fact PS6 has already been leaked in legal documents and AMD's roadmap for 2028.

I have no idea what the latter part even means - AMD's most recent "roadmap" went to 2024 - but the PS6 has not "been leaked in legal documents".

Microsoft opined in its FTC defence for the Activision Blizzard acquisition that 2028 is "the expected starting period of the next generation of consoles" (no mention of what consoles).

Sony stated, in its evidence to the CMA on the same topic last year, that ""Microsoft has offered to continue making Activision's games available on PlayStation only until 2027. Likewise, in public comments just on October 26, Microsoft said that it plans to offer Call of Duty on PlayStation only as long as it makes sense. A period until 2027 - or some other (possibly shorter) time that Microsoft unilaterally determines makes sense to Microsoft is badly inadequate. By the time that SIE launched the next generation of its PlayStation console (which is likely to occur around ⬛⬛⬛⬛), it would have lost access to Call of Duty and other Activision titles".

That suggests that Sony is not anticipating the next PlayStation (whatever it's called) any earlier than 2027. 2027/8 is about what a reasonable person would expect given console life spans to date (PS1 1994-2006; PS2 2000-2013; PS3 2007-2016; PS4 2013-2023*; PS5 2020-present), so that may well be what happens, but at no point has the PS6 "been leaked" in these hearings, nor has any date for it.


*I'm not sure if the PS4's end of production has happened officially yet, but it was on the slate for this year

 

[Dave A]

In your rush you're misreading what I'm saying. After GT6 most content, be it cars or tracks, where binned or comprehensively upgraded.

Do you actually have proof of this? Because the evidence suggests otherwise.

The car models created for GT6 featured addaptive tessalation and were capable of being far more detailed than what players expeirenced in game. What possible reason did PD have to create those models only to ditch them for the very next game?

If you have actual evidence I'm open to correction, but everything I've seen suggests otherwise.

 

[Nathan88]

Do you actually have proof of this? Because the evidence suggests otherwise.

The car models created for GT6 featured addaptive tessalation and were capable of being far more detailed than what players expeirenced in game. What possible reason did PD have to create those models only to ditch them for the very next game?

If you have actual evidence I'm open to correction, but everything I've seen suggests otherwise.

There are many dozens of GT6 Premium models that have not been seen in GTS/GT7. Those we have seen have undergone substantial updates.

What are the chances of seeing the GT6 premium's in GT7?

A number of GT5P/GTHD era models had to be heavily redone due to how early they were; case in point, the R32 GT-R's interior: Later models (from GT5 Spec II/DLC era to GT6 era models, mainly the tessellated cars) seem to be more next-gen ready though, case in point being the Z8:

www.gtplanet.net

PD have been striving for future proofed 3D models since the HD era, when it became clear it was unsustainable to rebuild an entire car list, for each new console generation. Car & track 3D models for GTS are the ones than can be brought forward into PS5/PS6. I'd go as far to say I can't see any need to touch the car models moving forward. Tracks are slightly different, the base 3D model, including grandstands, are fine. But they can still bump up texture quality, add denser, more detailed crowds, trackside vehicles & objects.