WSGTC 2 discussion

[Denilson]

A few more to the list:

Nissan CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
Compl. stock
1100 kg
518 bhp
610 pp
PL: -

Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA
Turbo stage 2
1150 kg
499 bhp
616 pp
PL: 92,3%

Honda ARTA NSX
Engine stage 3
1100 kg
503 bhp
601 pp
PL: 92,4%

Lexus PETRONAS TOM'S SC430
Turbo stage 2
1100 kg
503 bhp
609 pp
PL: 95,6%

Toyota YELLOWHAT YMS SUPRA
Engine stage 3
1090 kg
534 bhp
608 pp
PL: -

Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z
Stock
1100 kg
508 bhp
618 pp
PL: 95,1%

Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
Engine starge 3
1130 kg
515 bhp
610 pp
PL: 85,0%

Lexus ENEOS SC430
Turbo stage 2
1100 kg
538 bhp
612 pp
PL: -

Lexus BANDAI DIREZZA
Turbo stage 3
1100 kg
549 bhp
617 pp
PL: 91,2%

Feel free to try these cars out at any track and have a say.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

Im also fine with being a capable host/steward as required

 

[competizione]

sorry for not posting in the last days have just leveled up when psn is (still) down. i will restart my testing on tsukuba tomorow if everything goes to plan.

 

[Denilson]

Great, a lot of you guys are able to help as stewards/quali-lap spectator.

I just noticed a thread started by a guy who enjoys beeing a saftey car driver. And he's deticated.
My question is: Do we want a dedicated saftey car driver? He will be responsable for the formationlaps, and I'm also concidering to give the possibility for a driver who gets enginge damage to simply type "SC" in the chat. When the Saftey car driver sees that message, he'll pull out from his spot (somewhere around the pit exit) in front of the leader. He will then run one lap in an even pace. When he turns in to the pits, the procedure will be the same as the rolling starts. No passing before the finishline. This will add a sense of realism, and it will also reduce the time lost for the driver who got damage.

Since we are doing 2 races at a time, the pace car will be for D1. And for the same class races, we will simply use the pace car in the GT500, and the next same class race, the pace car will be in GT300.

Please, have a say. 👍

 

[Paginas1]

i quite like the idea, but it would be nice if we could do it for both races (however yes that would be hard as they is only 1 guy lol)

we would deffo have to do a practice race to try it, plus someone would have to crash to test that aswell.

Yes it would had realism and great excitment because it would close the pack up and start again

 

[Scanny_Flick]

Hasn't he got a safety car mate??

I also like the idea and agree it would be nice to have it in both races. I agree with Pag though, the procedure and the rules would need to be thrashed out and practiced because it is something that could easily go wrong mid race and as a result screw the race.

 

[Paginas1]

yup what we need to think about is....

1. do laped cars get to unlap themselvs and join at the back
2. Is the pits open to make tyre changes

im sure theres more but cant think of any at mo

 

[priesty_lfc]

What night is this planning to take place? I could be up for joining if there is room.

 

[JPzer]

Great idea, but from my point of view, the pace car guy have to be very very dedicated to do this kind of work.

I would also be willing to host/watch qialification run when needed.

And for your information.. its seems that PSN wont be online until at less may 31.. this is an impressive down time..

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385082,00.asp

 

[Denilson]

yep, I agree with all of you. It's a good idea, and it could be awsome. But we really need to make sure it will work out with the possibility to screw up the race erased.

Also, as Pagi said. Can lapped cars unlap themselves (pass the cars that are behind the safety car but can not pass eachother)?
Is it allowed to go into the pits?

I'd say: yes, and yes.

 

[hawkeye122]

Hey guys, im the one Denilson is considering to have be the Safety car driver. So, ive got a question- How fast do you think i should drive? And should i go faster on the straights?

Also, heres the "Official" Super GT pace car

Should I keep it white, or go for a very bright, lambo colour so it can be seen? I know Super GT cars are a colorful lot, but even white may be mistaken for the Tom's SC430. What do you guys think?

 

[Adam41]

So just because someone has received damage, we have to close the pack up just so they can join the back? It's hard enough to pull away from cars behind you with GT5's fricken stupid slipstream. If I'm 3+ seconds in front of a car, I won't be stopping just so they can pull up right behind me again.

And then you say they may be able to unlap themselves aswell? They received heavy damage for a reason. We have it set to heavy damage so people are more cautious and hence if they do received heavy damage, they should be penalised for that. If I knew that receiving heavy damage would mean closing the pack up, taking part at the back of a second rolling start just to slipstream most cars into the first corner; then you'll see me crashing into a lot of barriers. Also with the chance of changing tires, it's a win-win situation for the person with heavy damage (I'm pretty sure in GT5 it doesn't give you the option to not change you tires anyway, although it does give you the option to not refuel).

You're the ones that want to make it realistic. So, realistically, if you received heavy damage you should have no chance of winning the race from then on. There's no point screwing up other people's races when in the first place you could just set the damage to light/off.

 

[Andil]

I don't think we should include a safety car aspect - although I don't think it would ever happen, it opens up the possibility of people deliberately causing engine damage in order to cause a SC and therefore close up the pack. And while a deliberate offence can be fairly obvious, it's not hard to "miss a braking point" or whatever. I doubt people would do it, but it opens up a possibility which I don't like.

Also we can have the most dedicated safety car driver around, as I'm sure hawkeye is, but once there's a week where he's not available, what do we do - just go without? If so, there isn't much point in having the SC in the first place imo. Plus with Div1/Div2, one race will have the SC, one won't.

While it's a nice gesture to back up the pack to allow someone with heavy engine damage to catch back up again - we drop your worst 2 (or 3?) rounds to come up with your final championship total, so just drop the round, that's what it's there for.

Personally think it's a nice feature in theory, and would add realism to the series, I think it's going to add more complications than we really need for the series as a whole.

 

[Denilson]

I hear you. And Aderrrm, relax, it was just an idea

However, if the saftey car was going flat out, like the SLS in the F1, the lap would'nt take that long, and the driver who got damage would not catch up, just loose less time. Perhaps that a GT-R V-spec is a bit to fast. But we could just limit it's power to make the car lap our circuits in a pace that should slow the leader down by 15 seconds or so. The car who got damage would loose 25-30 seconds in the pit stop alone, and add the time it takes to get to the pits with a damaged engine to that. So this will not make it possible to gain time if you got engine damage, it will make you loose less. I totally agree that we can't help a driver who got damage to catch up.

 

[Adam41]

Mole's post. 👍

I hear you. And Aderrrm, relax, it was just an idea

Sorry. I get emotional talking about GT5's stupidly unrealistic slipstream.

However, if the saftey car was going flat out, like the SLS in the F1, the lap would'nt take that long, and the driver who got damage would not catch up, just loose less time. Perhaps that a GT-R V-spec is a bit to fast. But we could just limit it's power to make the car lap our circuits in a pace that should slow the leader down by 15 seconds or so. The car who got damage would loose 25-30 seconds in the pit stop alone, and add the time it takes to get to the pits with a damaged engine to that. So this will not make it possible to gain time if you got engine damage, it will make you loose less. I totally agree that we can't help a driver who got damage to catch up.

Say this was the case. We've slowed down all the other drivers and most probably packed them all together so to give the damaged car a better chance of catching up. But 25-30 seconds + time to get to the pits with a damaged engine is too greater gap for him to catch up anyway. So all you've really done is closed all the other drivers up, stopped the momentum of the race and possibly ruined someone's hard work pulling away from the cars slipstreaming behind.

 

[Denilson]

Say this was the case. We've slowed down all the other drivers and most probably packed them all together so to give the damaged car a better chance of catching up. But 25-30 seconds + time to get to the pits with a damaged engine is too greater gap for him to catch up anyway. So all you've really done is closed all the other drivers up, stopped the momentum of the race and possibly ruined someone's hard work pulling away from the cars slipstreaming behind.

Yep, and the race can turn around in the middle of it. The guy who got damage can not gain any time, so he'll not crash on purpose for that matter.
Only thing it might do is to pack up the field a bit. Let's say that the lap behind the pacecar is 15 seconds longer than a normal lap. This is not enough time for the guys in the back of the field to catch up. Ofc, it depends how far in to the race we are when the SC pulls out. But if the cars are spread out, it'll probably be top 3-4 that will end up in a pack. The rest will gain a bit of time, but not that much.

But I need to say that I don't disagree with you. There is a lot of things that can go wrong. Such as damage that could ba a result to a formationlap in that kind of pace. I just tought that we could discuss it, and perhaps try it sometime to see if this would fit us, and if it can be done in a secure way.

If it work out fine, I'm all for the idea. Add the ballast to this and the possibility to change tyres during the SC-lap and we will have a really dynamic race all the way to the finishline. The part where car can unlap themselves is not something that I support after giving it some tought.

 

[hawkeye122]

Please, feel free to bag on the idea of a saftey car, I wont be offended. In the past, ive seen that IF the safety car is called out, the series institutes a minimum lap time. So, the people in 3-8th place can only do laps at 2 min or slower. The SC would be running a 2:05 or something, thus making sure that people who were drastically behind stay very much behind. Also, the front 4 or so people who pack up, yeah, its bad. But then it becomes a competition on who has looked after their tyres best, who took the least amount of fuel? Personally, i think lapped cars should not be allowed to go thru. Just some food for thought.

 

[Denilson]

Please, feel free to bag on the idea of a saftey car, I wont be offended. In the past, ive seen that IF the safety car is called out, the series institutes a minimum lap time. So, the people in 3-8th place can only do laps at 2 min or slower. The SC would be running a 2:05 or something, thus making sure that people who were drastically behind stay very much behind. Also, the front 4 or so people who pack up, yeah, its bad. But then it becomes a competition on who has looked after their tyres best, who took the least amount of fuel? Personally, i think lapped cars should not be allowed to go thru. Just some food for thought.

Great to hear that from you! 👍

We are a group of serious racers, and every aspect of the WSGTC 2 will be discussed a lot with it's pros and cons, back and forth and so on.

The opportunity is great, but we need to discuss in further (as you might've noticed )

 

[KamyKaze1098]

I think it's a bad idea because we will have 2 rooms racing at the same time and only 1 safety car. I don't like the idea of closing the pack too.

 

[HortusIX]

on the safety car...

i personally don't feel it's warranted (sorry hawkeye) but it would look good, if it could be done properly...

my reasons:
1. how would hawkeye know when to come out of the pits to slow the pack?
[will there be a second part of the safety team acting as 'race control' to watch the race from the lounge, limiting the drivers in the room to just 12 [given the current limit of 14/room]? or will all drivers be able to use the voice chat function to alert hawkeye of an incident and who then would have the final decision on whether the incident is worthy of a safety car being called on to calm the situation?]
2. how would hawkeye know when to go back into the pits and release the leaders?
[will this be decided by 'race control' or will this be once the people who have crashed out have caught back up to the pack?]
3. is it fair to allow cars who have spun/crashed out a chance to catch back up gain?
[the idea of the safety car in professional racing series is to slow the pack so that stopped cars and debris can be removed from the track - not to allow e.g. Alonso the chance to catch up because he caused a collision for what might or might not have been wreckless driving - this is not an issue in GT5 because when somebody spins out or collides with another driver (or part of the track) the cars don't breakdown and (from my experience) no debris is ever left on the track as a result of any collisions...
if the safety car has to come out in these types of cases then it's possible that it could be called into action quite often as this would have to be upheld in all cases given the difficulty in being able to decide (quite quickly) if the safety car is even needed]
4. it could be argued that 2 or even 4 safety cars might be needed in the case of the formation lap
[2 safety cars in each Divisional room, one to control the GT500s and the other to control the GT300s].

...sorry, but just too complicated i feel. but if it does go ahead - has anybody thought about using the actual pace car in GT5? it's got lights and everything!

 

[OwensRacing]

While it is a novel idea and really could add some depth to the races.

I just don't see it being implemented in a fashion that will work smoothly and not harbor more trouble for those in charge.


So while I like the idea. I will have to say no thanks for the execution of this feature requires to much organization during a race. Which for me could cause confusion and ruin some races.

 

[Denilson]

Yep, probably too complicated as you guys say, but not AS complicated as some of you want to claim.

However, let's scrap the idea. We could use a SC for the formation-lap, but I guess the SC-driver would want a "bigger" task..

But if our SC driver (hawkeye) is up for just sorting the formationlap prior the race start, would we want that?

 

[KamyKaze1098]

But if our SC driver (hawkeye) is up for just sorting the formationlap prior the race start, would we want that?

I think it's a bad idea because we will have 2 rooms racing at the same time and only 1 safety car.

I don't think it will work. If we were only one room i would love to have it, but we can't have it on one room only.

 

[Denilson]

I don't think it will work. If we were only one room i would love to have it, but we can't have it on one room only.

Why is that a problem? GT500 use the SC one race, and the next race, the GT300's will use it.

 

[Joshua1994]

Why is that a problem? GT500 use the SC one race, and the next race, the GT300's will use it.

or if there just doing a formation lap, one of the classes could start about 10 minutes later, as the SC can leave and join the other class after they have done the formation lap in the first room?

but in my opinion, the only thing which i think would be cool if it could be implemented is team standings, other than that, season 1 was perfect

 

[Denilson]

Yep, team standings will be included if we decide to go with the suggestion that only 2 cars from each livery can be picked. By reading the posts, it's pretty obvious that most of us think that's a good idea. 👍

 

[Denilson]

I've done some testing for the GT500 class.

There is 1000 different ways in testing cars and performance, and all of us have our own ideas how and where testing should take place.

Procedure:
Nurburgring Nordschleife
Free run
Grip reduction: REAL
Damage: LIGHT

First lap is my outlap, and I always pushed hard on the first lap. This way, I think we also get a bit of a hint about the tyre wear between different models as well. All laps posted are my 2.nd lap (1st lap after the outlap). Cars was tuned until I thik it felt good. Just got rid of all under/oversteer etc.

The AUTECH MOTUL GT-R time is done on my Nurburgring Nordshleife tune for the WSGTC race, hence it's a tad faster.

Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
Engine stage 3
1130 kg
514 bhp
610 pp
PL: 85,0 %
Lap: 6:31.505

Toyota YELLOWHAT YMS SUPRA
Engine stage 3
1090 kg
534 bhp
608 pp
PL: -
Lap: 6:32.196

Lexus DENSO DUNLP SARD SC430
Turbo stage 2
1100 kg
515 bhp
612 pp
PL: 95,6 %
Lap: 6:32.210

Lexus BANDAI DIREZZA SC430
Turbo stage 2
1100 kg
533 bhp
614 pp
PL: -
Lap: 6:32.235

Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z
Stock
1100 kg
508 bhp
618 pp
PL: 95,1 %
Lap: 6:32.273

Lexus PETRONAS TOM'S SC430
Turbo stage 2
1100 kg
515 bhp
612 pp
PL: 95,6 %
Lap: 6:32.288

Nissan CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
Stock
1100 kg
518 bhp
610 pp
PL: -
Lap: 6:32.484

Lexus ENEOS SC430
Turbo stage 2
1100 kg
538 bhp
612 pp
PL: -
Lap: 6:32.749

 

[Paginas1]

wow i have to say that you have got them very close, even with such a long lap

 

[JPzer]

damn ! great work !

 

[Denilson]

Good to get some positive comments. Feels nice.

After all, I did put down about 1 hour/car tuning, testing, and eventually run the lap. This is not something I've done in a haste.

So what you can see above, is 7 hours of hard work. Got 9 more cars to test...

Feel free to try the cars out at any track and post your findings. The more tests we complete, the better the outcome. Would be great with some feedback on the cars, and the level of it's tunes. Thanks. 👍