You learn something new... - Cars you didn't know existed, until now!

[homeforsummer]

The things one can find when researching information on Wankel cars... As I was checking out tidbits of information about the NSU Ro80,I wound up discovering the Citroen M35. No, it's not a Citroen tank, or a Citroen-sponsored British highway. Instead, it's this;

If you're intrigued by the M35, you'll probably like the Bijou too, which I'm sure is a car many haven't heard of:

It was designed and built in Britain (penned by the designer of the original Lotus Elite, which isn't a surprise if you put the two side-by-side) as a way of boosting Citroen sales. Cars like the 2CV proved just a bit too weird for Brits early on and the Bijou was supposed to be a more conventional offering.

Only like the M35, it didn't really succeed, since they made barely more than 200 of them. It was a bit too expensive, and slower to accelerate (though faster at the top) than the 2CV itself since the fibreglass bodywork was heavier than that of the wafer-thin metal on the 2CV.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

If you're intrigued by the M35, you'll probably like the Bijou too, which I'm sure is a car many haven't heard of:

It was designed and built in Britain (penned by the designer of the original Lotus Elite, which isn't a surprise if you put the two side-by-side) as a way of boosting Citroen sales. Cars like the 2CV proved just a bit too weird for Brits early on and the Bijou was supposed to be a more conventional offering.

Only like the M35, it didn't really succeed, since they made barely more than 200 of them. It was a bit too expensive, and slower to accelerate (though faster at the top) than the 2CV itself since the fibreglass bodywork was heavier than that of the wafer-thin metal on the 2CV.

You are right, I was unware of the Bijou as much as the M35. And it also really gives a 1960s British kit-car vibe, as if it was a Bond Equipe. I see more of that than the Elite in styling, but you do make a valid point about their similarities.

And you know how fragile and lightweight the 2CV was when the use of fibreglass actually made 2CV-based cars heavier than their original counterparts... That's the power of paper-mache-esque metal sheeting for you.

 

[Liquid]

Nissan Mid4

View attachment 539834 View attachment 539835 View attachment 539836 View attachment 539837

Honda NSX front
Ferrari F355 sides
S14 Silvia rear

That's... a dream combination. Me likey.

 

[Winters Noble]

I was shocked when I discovered this years ago. Not in a good way...

Shelby Dodge Charger

 

[homeforsummer]

And you know how fragile and lightweight the 2CV was when the use of fibreglass actually made 2CV-based cars heavier than their original counterparts... That's the power of paper-mache-esque metal sheeting for you.

Fibreglass is a weird material. While the 2CV's low weight was a very obvious result of just how flimsy its bodywork was, fibreglass can be surprisingly heavy at the same time.

It doesn't have the same strength as steel so you need to use more of it to be suitably rigid (not important structurally as I think most cars using fibreglass panels are body-on-frame, but important for keeping its shape) and that pushes weight up. Mainly it's used because it's cheap, which is why kit-car companies tend to use that or thermoplastics rather than tooling up for steel or aluminium. I'd guess it's also useful where you intend to have large, complicated, single-piece forms as well, like the front and rear clamshells on an Elise.

I really like the Bijou though. Unfortunately, its rarity means survivors are relatively expensive (the only one I can find for sale at the moment is about £9000, which is about £7000 more than I'm prepared to pay for one). But with a later 2CV engine or Visa engine I expect performance is decent enough for pottering around.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Fibreglass is a weird material. While the 2CV's low weight was a very obvious result of just how flimsy its bodywork was, fibreglass can be surprisingly heavy at the same time.

It doesn't have the same strength as steel so you need to use more of it to be suitably rigid (not important structurally as I think most cars using fibreglass panels are body-on-frame, but important for keeping its shape) and that pushes weight up. Mainly it's used because it's cheap, which is why kit-car companies tend to use that or thermoplastics rather than tooling up for steel or aluminium. I'd guess it's also useful where you intend to have large, complicated, single-piece forms as well, like the front and rear clamshells on an Elise.

So fibreglass does not have the same rigidity with similar amounts of it on a car body as a metal-based car would? I believe I have heard something about that before, but it was good to see a more thorough explanation of this issue coming from you. Thanks for clarifying. 👍

I suppose cost and design consistency were the main reason for kit-car companies to use fibreglass in lieu of smaller quantities of lighter materials like steel or aluminum...

I really like the Bijou though. Unfortunately, its rarity means survivors are relatively expensive (the only one I can find for sale at the moment is about £9000, which is about £7000 more than I'm prepared to pay for one). But with a later 2CV engine or Visa engine I expect performance is decent enough for pottering around.

£9000? Well, it is not an average, spanner-built kit car, that much I can deduce. If your plan for buying one involves engine swaps, then finding a car in worse condition would be far more plausible than spending 9000 pounds on a museum queen. And I bet an engine-swapped Bijou would go like stink if it had a Visa GTI engine...

 

[homeforsummer]

Not sure a 'four' would fit, but later 2CVs and early Visas had a more powerful air-cooled flat-twin than the earlier 2CVs on which the Bijou was based.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Perhaps, my utopic side was probably getting the better of me when I wrote that. Just a bog-standard Visa engine would be good enough to give more go-juice to a Bijou, with more effective cooling and whatnot... And it shares some components with the 2CV's engine, I assume.

 

[VXR]

Suzuki 250cc stroker might up the ante.

 

[homeforsummer]

Suzuki 250cc stroker might up the ante.

Old BMW bikes are the go-to for hopping up 2CVs and their ilk, due to the flat twin layout.

 

[Dennisch]

Old BMW bikes are the go-to for hopping up 2CVs and their ilk, due to the flat twin layout.

Lumping in a 1000cc BMW would be a hilarious idea. If you don't beef up the structure the windscreen will smack you in the face when you take off.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Maybach Coupe by Xenatech...

Very limited production, quite expensive...

Oddly, I don't hate it.

 

[-Fred-]

It's like a bigger CL coupe, I kinda like that.

 

[lxmmy]

Chevrolet CERV lll

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Maybach Coupe by Xenatech...

Very limited production, quite expensive...

Oddly, I don't hate it.

I don't find it tasteless either, all things considered. It is certainly a far cry better than the "Buck-tooth Darth Vader" car known as the Exelero, and I can certainly see some accidental inspiration that would feel right at home in the S-Class Coupe. I really like the two-tone example in the last picture, it feels like a German Bentley Conti GT in many aspects, from stance to round shapes.

It would work for Maybach, I dare say. Sadly, it never got the chance to be an official venture... Leave that to the tuner houses. Exploiting luxury segments is what makes them rich and influential like that.

 

[Heldenzeit]

I want that Maybach coupe badly! Has rear folding tray tables!

 

[ildd]

this godforsaken machine

i love it
its my sprit animal

 

[Niku Driver HC]

A souped-up, completely demented Festiva, named after a Japanese war general. It looks like 'Murica's answer to the Honda City Turbo racing car. Jay Leno and his massive chin own one. What's not to like about this?

And it's a damm Festiva!

 

[ildd]

A souped-up, completely demented Festiva, named after a Japanese war general. It looks like 'Murica's answer to the Honda City Turbo racing car. Jay Leno and his massive chin own one. What's not to like about this?

And it's a damm Festiva!

If a City Turbo and an R5 Turbo had a baby and the engine was Amuricanized, this is the direct result.

 

[JR98]

I knew of the Tyrell P34 with 4 wheels at the front but I had no idea there was another 6 wheeled F1 car, the March 2-4-0, with 4 at the rear.

 

[R5]

I knew of the Tyrell P34 with 4 wheels at the front but I had no idea there was another 6 wheeled F1 car, the March 2-4-0, with 4 at the rear.

There's been a few, Ferrari and Williams tried them.

 

[Legro]

I want that Maybach coupe badly! Has rear folding tray tables!

That's quite neat, bit silly because turning the car into a coupe makes getting in the back more difficult, but quite neat regardless.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

If a City Turbo and an R5 Turbo had a baby and the engine was Amuricanized, this is the direct result.

It's just a shame that it never saw actual competition on a racetrack... A one-make series a la Honda City Championship would provide some of the greatest racing in America's 1990 racing history.

 

[TexRex]

I knew of the Tyrell P34 with 4 wheels at the front but I had no idea there was another 6 wheeled F1 car, the March 2-4-0, with 4 at the rear.

There's been a few, Ferrari and Williams tried them.

The idea goes back decades. While Tyrell and others may have done it to reduce drag and counter hydroplaning, the golden age of GP racing was littered with these simply to find traction.

Tires have always been behind engines.

 

[Obelisk]

Didn't know the Lumina had a people carrier version.

 

[VXR]

Oh yeah, those and the Pontiac Version looked so cool compared to the European people carriers I was used to.

 

[Tornado]

They are painful to drive though. There's a good yard between the front of the steering wheel and the base of the windshield (nevermind where you are sitting), plus probably another one between the base of the windshield and the front bumper.



It was a nifty design that had a lot of nifty ideas, but oh boy GM didn't think it through all the way.

 

[lxmmy]

BMW 326 Leblond

 

[The87Dodge]

I've always liked the design of the APV/TransSport/Silhouette, despite the fact that the masses thought it was too far out there.

 

[Obelisk]

I've always liked the design of the APV/TransSport/Silhouette, despite the fact that the masses thought it was too far out there.

You have an...odd taste in cars, dude.