Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Tenacious D]

Well that's easy. Just look at all your recent posts where you repeatedly talk about Turn10's bug porting, & or how you talk about the modeling being done in Viet Nam, yet not once do you bring anything negative about GT. Wait, that's because you're too busy defending it to the death. You bring those 2 things up among some others in 2 out of every 3 posts I see you make about Forza.


We get it.

There are two things wrong with your critique, Mac.

• None of the things I mention are untrue
• I don't start ranting about Forza for no apparent reason, it's always in response to unbalanced criticism of GT

Thank you for the attention though.

 

[Luminis]

You know, it was a QUESTION from Kaz asking if they meant black frame as in PSP. He didn't say, Standard cars have black frame as in PSP. Someone asked interior question on Honda twitter page about them having black frame. He asked if they meant black frame like GT PSP.

I don't see confirmation there that says, standard cars have black framed interiors like PSP.

Ok, so it wasn't confirmed. All we know so far is that standard cars will most likely end up with a 'generic' cockpit view, if they have one at all. I'd think that PD might even still be working on that issue until release. But still, I'd say anything than the most generic cockpits is out of the picture. And it's better to let it go now and maybe get a nice suprise after the game's release than to cling to the idea that the standard cars will still come with a proper cockpit view just to be dissapointed after actually playing GT5 for the first time.

And my point still stands: If it actually is said black border cockpit view, it might not qualify as a true cockpit to a lot of people.

And even if they do, I don't even play with cockpit view, I play bumper because that's the fastest and most accurate handling in my opinion. I don't look around my car when I'm racing. I look at the road. The interiors are nice to marvel at and all, but that's only in place when you have free time to do so, which I would say would be photo mode, or a long straight away!

So the graphics don't matter much to you. That's nice and all, but I like to be driving my cars in cockpit view. And I do care about the car's general appearence.

I'm glad I've got 200 premium cars to play around with. Luckily, that's a sufficient number to me, anyways.

 

[Tenacious D]

Honestly, I'd advise people to drop the whole question of Standard Car cockpits. It looks like the best you can hope for are those PSP-like black outlines. You'll know for sure at GamesCom, but I wouldn't count on more than that. God knows no one wants another delay.

November or bust!

 

[McLaren]

There are two things wrong with your critique, Mac.

• None of the things I mention are untrue
• I don't start ranting about Forza for no apparent reason, it's always in response to unbalanced criticism of GT

Thank you for the attention though.

1. You over exaggerate these things & believe they are the worst things Turn10 have ever done. You also ignore the fact that PD have done things just as poorly.
2. Yes, you do. You really do. Even the mention of Forza of being a good game and you rant about the same BS every single time. It's getting old constantly reading your drawn-out posts about why you dislike Turn10 or that it's been months since you touched the game.

You're nothing more than a broken record now-a-days.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, if you disagree, Mac, by all means, look at the nice big one I made and have at it, rather than speak in generalities. Contrary to your generalizations, I say nothing about Forza or T10 that isn't true. Don't pull a Keith Obermann on me.

 

[SONY_55]

 

[paulpg87]

this image scares me, the difference with premium is so huge, it looks crap.

 

[McLaren]

Well, if you disagree, Mac, by all means, look at the nice big one I made and have at it, rather than speak in generalities. Contrary to your generalizations, I say nothing about Forza or T10 that isn't true. Don't pull a Keith Obermann on me.

You do. You make it worse than it seems. And yet, you let PD get away with it & blame it on Sony.

I'm amazed most of these members take your posts seriously anymore knowing it's a repeat & rehash of your already known dislikes of T10 & defense of PD. I think I've read 3 times now you repeatedly mentioning the out-sourcing, maybe 4 or 5 times your tantrum with the online, and god knows what else I've read numerously.
Edit* Yep. A brief glance over your last post & nothing's changed. You still 🤬 about the out sourcing & still go on about how MS is a big bad monopoly and Sony are angels except for when they get in PD's way. Then they're bad.

I can pretty much make a pro-Forza post now & instantly know what you'll cry about. That's why I just pass over your posts. But now that PD is starting to slip with things, you're pushing the blame on Sony calling it their fault for the game's short comings.

Whine about what you will with Forza & whoever else and defend GT til' you're blue in the face, but the fact is pretty much this. Turn10 & a bunch of other developers pushed out multiple good racing series & even began new ones whilst PD decided that all the little details were more important. And if Sony hadn't told them to get off their asses, they'd probably be there another 5 years modeling about 200-300 cars, only half way through the 1,000 cars b/c they don't realize that they're spending way too much time on the tiniest of details.

As far as I can see with PD, there is a line between great models & being OCD about them.

 

[jabofu]

Well, if you disagree, Mac, by all means, look at the nice big one I made and have at it, rather than speak in generalities. Contrary to your generalizations, I say nothing about Forza or T10 that isn't true. Don't pull a Keith Obermann on me.

Your hate about MS/Turn10/Forza is your problem and there is definetly no need to repeat it in every second post of yours. Yes Forza maybe cant compete in some aspects, but who cares? People, including me, like this game. We are here for GT and we are all racing fans. And i think the hardest GT-fan has enough of your crap.

It looks like the GT-PSP cockpit-view looks like the most likely solution for GT5 "standard cars". It will be a real downside for me personally. But i hope that the most good cars are premium.

Does PD use any shedule in the company? I dont think so...

 

[Tenacious D]

You do. You make it worse than it seems. And yet, you let PD get away with it & blame it on Sony.

Well, then tell me what's wrong with Forza then, big guy. If it's not the same as my list, you're just ignoring things. Heck, I left things out.

Look, Turn 10 wasn't told to make a flight sim game in the middle of Forza 3.

Can you even explain why T10 messed with an online system which worked well in F2?? I mean, seriously Mac, blinders much...

By the way, you guys do know that the above Vette is from a downsampled video which was then enlarged, don't you?

 

[McLaren]

Per usual, you change your stance on to other subjects. I have never said FM3 didn't have its faults, but they certainly aren't the work of the devil as you make it seem every time you post. See, I have no issue with you pointing things out. But it gets really damn old knowing every time you post these past few days, you're on a copy & paste job from your last post to the next one.

And in all honesty, you're a joke now because you have nothing more to complain about than the same boring stuff. The only new thing you do now is run to PD's aid, ready to surpass the blame onto someone else.

The only thing I'm happy to see now when I see you post is another member pointing my same points, showing how tired they are of your dribble. Perhaps it's time you just ignore the urge to post every time you read the word "Forza" and post about something else for a change.

 

[Luminis]

Look, Turn 10 wasn't told to make a flight sim game in the middle of Forza 3.

They were straight up told to finish it within a certain timeframe by MS. That's a more severe interferance than what PD got from Sony in my book.

You either excuse both game's flaws, or neither.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well Mac... oh well. I do have a feeling that when F4 rolls around, you'll be tongue lashing everyone who gives it a critical review. I also rather expect that engine sounds are going to have you giving GT5 a C minus, no matter how good it is otherwise.

You either excuse both game's flaws, or neither.

Uhh... yay, everything's awesome... woo.

 

[Paolosev91]

There's my ultimate thought:
in every GT game, we saw that only "perfect" features had been put into the games.
They could make medium-quality cockpits for standard cars, and put them into the game to make us a little happy... but they will not.
Why? Because Kazunori wants Quality in every feature of the game. They will not create that king of "standard" cockpits, because there will be a huge difference between them and the premium ones. So they will not make them. They will prefer only hood view

 

[Slurm]

Per usual, you change your stance on to other subjects. I have never said FM3 didn't have its faults, but they certainly aren't the work of the devil as you make it seem every time you post. See, I have no issue with you pointing things out. But it gets really damn old knowing every time you post these past few days, you're on a copy & paste job from your last post to the next one.

And in all honesty, you're a joke now because you have nothing more to complain about than the same boring stuff. The only new thing you do now is run to PD's aid, ready to surpass the blame onto someone else.

The only thing I'm happy to see now when I see you post is another member pointing my same points, showing how tired they are of your dribble. Perhaps it's time you just ignore the urge to post every time you read the word "Forza" and post about something else for a change.

First you accuse him of posting nothing but Forza bashing all over the place, then when he welcomes you to take part in the big discussion in the right place and changes the subject back to the topic, you accuse him of wriggling out of it. Some of the users here are synonymous with the same old arguments but if they're valid points, based on truth, made in the right places, then the only problem I see is a personal one - being frustrated that someone always fights the same corner.

I am hella disappointed with the standard cars news, but I find Tenacious D 's posts pretty informative.

 

[amar212]

Can you even explain why T10 messed with an online system which worked well in F2?? I mean, seriously Mac, blinders much...

Maybe I can.

Before Chespace started ignoring all questions regarding "hoppers" system overthere on Neogaf - and you can imagine nobody was happy with it from the first minute it became clear there's no way to make Public races accessible with custom parameters - there was talks about making online accessible to every type of players.

Even comparing with first Modern Warfare game was used in description of "hoppers", leading me to conclusion that someone overthere at T10 got an ingenious idea that server-based concept of matchmaking with prebaked parameters will make FM3 a somewhat "Modern Warfare of Racing".

And they were 100% wrong.

Hoppers system is the greatest single drawback of whole FM3 experience. It have to be noticed that no journalist that got a chance to get preview and review copies (and I was among them, for which I really and honestly thank Che once again) couldn't go online at the point because servers were non-functional up to 48 hours before release. And all reviews were written before, while many have to understand that majority of reviewers does not even give a damn about some particular online option suited for strictly hard-core.

In conclusion, "Hoppers" problem never got attention in the first FM3's reviews.

After getting serious complaints on both FM3 official forums, overthere at Forzacentral and on NeoGaf respectfully, T10 actually did something with inclusion of PRO lobbies and RWD hoopers for more demanding players. However, it turned out that "no assists" lobbies actually had both Braking Line and ABS available for option (so much about no assists), and that all PRO hoppers were made with races no longer than 5 laps (7 laps for short tracks such as Tsukuba, etc.).

Che also communicated that "hoppers" system are actually integral part of the game online code and they can't be changed back to F2's system. Soon after rant about that went down, that particular subject was never adressed again.

ANother slap in the face of all of us "hard-core" players came when RWD hoppers were suspended to A-class only because of "poor community reception". It has to be explained that inclusion of RWD-only lobbies were made after all other lobbies become flooded with people driving only AWD cars (Audi R8 and S5, together with stupid AWD Viper and such) because they were superior to all other cars in the game with same PP value (value that determines power/weight/numbers of the vehicle).

That lead again to A-class RWD hoppers where assists were on, and where just few cars were used on 5-laps races.

Not to mention that although community literally screamed for it, nothing was ever made in order to introduce stock-car hoppers.

In conclusion, "hopper" system never produced results as Modern Warfare-driven inspiration was calling to.

The long-term problems of such decisions regarding "hopper" system can be seen today, 6 months after FM3's release.

The actual number of players in online Public races is ridiculously low - maybe hundreds are playing even on Sunday night prime-time, while happier players who actually have friends that own and play game can enjoy the game in it's full potential.

Or to be exact, to it's full potential to some extent.

Another major drawback of game for hard-core is that it just does not allow pit-management to be used usefully in online. Tire-wear is too slow (and it can't be changed), fuel depletion is almost nonexistent and overall usability of pits as strategic component in online racing is absent.

Although there are many problems where FM3 can't satisfy what hard-core players could want from its online capabilities, I really hope T10 will correct all their mistakes for the next game. Forza series certainly deserves that.

 

[Omnis]

I pick the one about are hopes.

 

[warp9engage]

Those models would look great if this was a Gran Turismo 4 HD Remake, but it's a full fledged PS3 title. They just look so low quality and out of place with the premium models.

 

[gtracedriver]

Yeah it is not great but it will be better than other games. Let's just wait and see, ok.

 

[Slurm]

Those models would look great if this was a Gran Turismo 4 HD Remake, but it's a full fledged PS3 title. They just look so low quality and out of place with the premium models.

It looks terrible, because it's an upscaled segment of a youtube video.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I just wish PD show us some gameplay video of those standard cars in action ,the video on the granturismo website was bad quality really and I don't think this will be how they look like .Just my 2 cents anyway

 

[gtracedriver]

Yes I would also like to see how the standard cars will look in comparison to other racing games.

This is the HD version of standard models video
http://cdn2.gran-turismo.com/jp/common/data2/movie/20100616_e3/gt5_standardcars.mov

 

[NLxAROSA]

It looks terrible, because it's an upscaled segment of a youtube video.

Indeed, here is another screenshot from the same video. I don't think these cars look all that bad. Also take into account that some cars may look crappier than others (they do so in GT PSP, so I would assume the same would apply to GT5 if they are ported to there as well).

 

[HackiRoku]

Someone did a list of car we know/see there premium fot their cockpit view?
because it seems to me that weve seen a lot of confirmed car with cockpit view until now? I think were already close to 200 premium car announced, what do you think?

 

[JDMKING13]

Yes I would also like to see how the standard cars will look in comparison to other racing games.

This is the HD version of standard models video
http://cdn2.gran-turismo.com/jp/common/data2/movie/20100616_e3/gt5_standardcars.mov

Those cars looked very good. 👍

 

[Luminis]

Someone did a list of car we know/see there premium fot their cockpit view?
because it seems to me that weve seen a lot of confirmed car with cockpit view until now? I think were already close to 200 premium car announced, what do you think?

Yep, most of the cars we've seen sso far are premium cars. I'll just quote the list from the Master Car List thread:

Confirmed Premium Cars

Acura
NSX ('91)

Alfa Romeo
147 TI 2.0 Twin Spark ('06)
8C Competizione ('09)
Brera Sky Window 3.2 JTS Q4 ('06)

Amuse
S2000 GT1 Turbo
380RS Superleggera (Z33)
(Opera Performance) 350Z RS Gran Turismo

Art Morrison
Corvette Roadster (C1-gen, '60)

ASL
Garaiya (ARTA SuperGT, '08)

Aston Martin
DB9 Coupe ('06)

Audi
R8 R-Tronic ('07)
TT 3.2 Quattro ('03)
TT 3.2 Quattro ('07)

Blitz
Dunlop Skyline (ER34-gen, D1GP '07)

BMW
135i Coupe ('07)
135tii Concept ('08)
M3 Coupe (E92-gen, '07)
M5 (E60-gen, '05)
Z4 3.0i ('03)
Z4 M Coupe ('08)

Bugatti
Veyron 16.4 ('09)

Chevrolet
Camaro Z28 ('69)
Camaro SS ('10)
Corvette Stingray Convertible (C3-gen, '69)
Corvette Z06 (C6-gen, '06)
Corvette ZR-1 (C6-gen, '09)
Impala SS (#14 Tony Stewart NASCAR, '09)
Impala SS (#24 Jeff Gordon NASCAR, '09)
Impala SS (#42 Juan Pablo Montoya NASCAR, '10)
Impala SS (#48 Jimmie Johnson NASCAR, '09)
Impala SS (#88 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. NASCAR, '09)

Citroën
C4 Coupe 2.0VTS ('06)
C4 WRC (Red Bull WRC, '08)
GT Concept ('08)

Daihatsu
Copen Active Top ('02)
OFC-1 Concept ('07)

Dodge
Challenger 426 Hemi R/T ('70)
Challenger SRT-8 ('09)
Viper GTS ('02)
Viper SRT-10 Coupe
Viper ACR ('08)

Ferrari
330 P3/4 ('67)
458 Italia ('10)
512BB ('76)
599GTB Fiorano ('06)
California ('09)
Enzo ('02)
F2007 (F1, '07)
F40 ('92)
F430 ('06)

Fiat
500 (original)

Ford
Focus ST ('06)
Focus RS WRC 07 (BP Abu Dhabi WRC, '08)
Fusion (#99 Carl Edwards NASCAR, '10)
GT ('05)
GT LM Edition Spec-II Test Car
Mustang GT ('07)

High End Performance
G37 ('07)

HKS
CT230R ('08)

Honda
Insight (2nd gen, '10)
Integra Type-R (DC5-gen, '04)
NSX Type-R (2nd gen, '02)
NSX (ARTA SuperGT, '06)
NSX (Takata Dome SuperGT, '06)
NSX (Raybrig SuperGT, '06)
S2000

HPA
TT ('07)

Infiniti
G35 Coupe

Jaguar
XKR R-Performance ('02)
XK Coupe ('06)

Lamborghini
Gallardo LP560-4 ('08)
Murcielago LP640 ('07)

Lancia
Delta HF Intergrale Evoluzione ('91)

Lexus
IS350 (WedsSport SuperGT '08)
IS-F ('07)
SC430 (Bandai Direzza SuperGT '06)
SC430 (Petronas Tom's SuperGT '08)
SC430 (Denso Dunlop SARD SuperGT '08)

Lotus
Elise ('96)
Elise Sport 190 ('98)
Elise ('00)
Elise 111R ('04)
Esprit V8 ('02)
Evora ('09)

Maserati
GranTurismo S ('08)

Mazda
Atenza Sport ('07)
Eunos Roadster (NA-gen, '89)
Furai Concept
Roadster (NB-gen)
Roadster (NC-gen, '05)
RX-7 Type-RS-R (FD-gen, '97)
RX-7 Spirit-R Type-A (FD-gen, '02)
RX-8 Type-S ('03)

McLaren
F1 ('94)

Mercedes-Benz
300SL Coupe ('54)
C63 AMG (W204-gen, '08)
SL55 AMG ('02)
SLR McLaren ('03)
SLS AMG ('10)

Mine's
Skyline GT-R N1 Base (R34-gen, '06)

Mini
Cooper S ('06)

Mitsubishi
Lancer Evolution IV GSR ('96)
Lancer Evolution IX GSR ('05)
Lancer Evolution X GSR ('07)

Nissan
350Z ('03)
370Z ('09)
Fairlady Z Version S (Z33-gen, '07)
Fairlady Z (Z34-gen, '10)
Fairlady Z (Xanavi Nismo SuperGT, '06)
Fairlady Z (Xanavi Nismo SuperGT, '07)
GT-R Proto concept ('05)
GT-R "Black Mask" prototype ('07)
GT-R ('08)
GT-R Spec-V ('09)
GT-R (Xanavi Nismo SuperGT, '08)
GT-R (Motul Autech SuperGT, '08)
GT-R (Calsonic Impul SuperGT, '08)
GT-R (Yellow Hat YMS Tomica SuperGT, '08)
Skyline GT-R V-Spec II (R32-gen, '94)
Skyline GT-R V-Spec (R33-gen, '97)
Skyline GT-R V-Spec Nur (R34-gen, '02)
Skyline 370GT Type SP Coupe (V36-gen, '07)
Skyline 350GT Type SP Sedan (V36-gen, '06)
Skyline Coupe Concept ('07)

Peugeot
307CC Premium AVN ('04)
908 HDi FAP (Le Mans, '10)

RE Amemiya
RX-7 (Aspara Drink JGTC, '06)

Renault
Clio Renault Sport V6 24V ('00)

Subaru
Impreza WRX STi Spec-C Type-RA (GD-III gen, '05)
Impreza WRX STi BBS Wheel Option (GE gen, '08)
Impreza WRC 1998 (Subaru WRC, '98)
Impreza WRC 2008 (Subaru WRC, '08)

Suzuki
Cappuccino ('95)
Cervo SR ('07)
Swift Sport ('07)
SX4 WRC (Shell Helix WRC, '08)

Tesla
Roadster Sport ('08)

Toyota
Camry (#11 Denny Hamlin NASCAR, '09)
Camry (#18 Kyle Busch NASCAR, '10)
Camry (#20 Joey Lagano NASCAR, '10)
Camry (#55 Michael Waltrip NASCAR, '09)
Camry (#83 Brian Vickers NASCAR, '10)
Celica GT-Four (TTE WRC, '95)
FT-86 Concept ('09)
FT-86 G Sports Concept ('10)
Prius (3rd-gen, '10)
Supra (Tom's Castrol JGTC, '97)
Supra (Yellow Hat YMS SuperGT, '05)

TVR
Tamora ('02)
Tuscan Speed Six ('00)

Volkswagen
Golf IV GTi ('01)
Golv V GTI ('05)

 

[Paolosev91]

look carefully:
no HUD in cockpit!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC7wpupIP5U

great thing

 

[ae86_trueno_d]

I found this on virtualr.net I dont know if it's a repost but I have yet to see any of this video here on gtplanet.net.

This is a video showing standard cars in action and I must say I'm terribly unimpressed.

We'll see what you guys think but in terms of sound and visual quality it looks more like a Gran Turismo 4.5 than a full 5.

Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8v7hjaSr6c&feature=player_embedded

 

[Lucas]

Okay Mr Sneer, find a post in which out of the blue I began ragging on Forza for no apparent reason. Especially, find a post in which I ignore all of Gran Turismo's shortcomings while napalming Forza without mercy.

I'll be waiting.

Anyway, I don't know about you, but when I was playing Forza, I only stared at those skidmarks to watch them disappear. I also used Photo Mode sparingly in FM2 because the results weren't always that great. I was really surprised at how often I wondered why the shots looked about as good as GT4 with a few more polys. Some were great, but the quality was strangely inconsistent.

In FW3, I quit doing anything because not only did the hassle of uploading pics to the Forza site ruin them, with the file system bogging so badly, it took more than FOUR HOUS once just to get a pic uploaded! Crap, I can do the same thing in GT4 in less than a half hour, including watching the replays for shoot opportunities because the Playstations have this arcane, little understood thing known as a USB port, which amazingly, so does my PC!

This post was a response to one of Devedander's posts, which didn't mention Forza at all. For some reason, you wanted to make fun of Devedander by posting the following:

Maybe Turn 10 should drop Photo Mode, and Polyphony keep it, so you can crow about how much better Forza is.

Then we have this:

I still only have my two Forza games on 360, and it's still disassembled since Christmas.

By the way, the Forza series are half-assed, bug riddled, "Why the hell did they change this?!" games. And Turn 10 has no excuse, except even with a bigger team, they still farmed out work to freaking Viet Nam and spent no time fixing a lot of things they should have. They also didn't have two games produced by the team, one of which was forced on them along with a major headache.

You just couldn't pass the opportunity to bash Forza, again. But naturally, we care about the state of your Xbox.

And also:

Turn 10 didn't fix the issues before release. But then, what else is new about a company that put out a 360 on an unsuspecting public knowing full well that a good number of them would fail? To the tune of almost 70% in the first two years.

Even with such a large staff, and farming out work to Viet Nam (WTH??), Forza 2 and 3 were the best Turn 10 could do? Oh well, some of you love it, I guess, but I still haven't played FW3 since November.

In the end, I guess you will make up some excuse, based on the following:

I am a fanboy, thank you very much.

Unlike the way you unjustly accused Deve of being a Forza tool, I do have reasons, plus proof, to think of you as a GT fanboy.



Also, I find funny how do you find the people that aren't Forza or GT fanboys (Moglet, McLaren, Devedander) to indirectly class them as biased, or in Deve's case, a Forza tool. I'm going to quote McLaren now, just because I completely agree with him.

The only thing I'm happy to see now when I see you post is another member pointing my same points, showing how tired they are of your dribble.

 

[GT]

Those cars looked very good. 👍

Indeed, those cars looked great; no fault! The corvette's windows aren't completely blacked-out; when the camera is lower you can clearly see the driver and the scenery through the windows.

The models themselves look great, dare I say they look awesome. So do the reflections...just imagine the physics engine and those cars.

I am sure that players will forget all their moaning once they're playing the finished product; so many cars, day-night, damage, dirt, hopefully weather, WRC, SuperGT, NASCAR, great tracks.

Great work PD!