Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[freshseth83]

That's great, nice one guys, way to welcome people to a 'friendly' site. A simple no, that was a premium car could have sufficed, to go out of your way to make someone feel foolish is wrong. Can't we just argue constructively?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Why should we take the time to construct a friendly reply when people can't take the time to, oh, read the actual argument they plan on jumping into? Why should we be making an effort for people who can't be bothered?

 

[Dapper]

Why can't I say my opinion? And why must everyone else say their's over and over?
As for reading 64 pages of you guys...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You're welcome to your opinion. For example; if you say you're fine with the Standard cars, and you'll enjoy using them. It's your opinion, you're entitled.

When you're posting something that's just wrong (saying a Premium is a Standard), then expect it to be called out.

 

[Akira AC]

You're welcome to your opinion. For example; if you say you're fine with the Standard cars, and you'll enjoy using them. It's your opinion, you're entitled.

When you're posting something that's just wrong (saying a Premium is a Standard), then expect it to be called out.

I thought this was the "Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium""
thread,I am sorry but people are free to post whatever they want as long is refer to the tread itself.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This isn't the first time you've had trouble with reading and understanding a post.

Dapper's thoughts on the two-tier system are welcome, I'm all for more people in on the discussion. Posting a Premium car and calling it a Standard isn't an opinion, it's just an error. Which was explained and as far as I know, we're past that.

RE: Dravonic's post below mine (I don't want to repost again so many times!): Dapper, don't get me wrong; I don't expect you to read up on 64 pages. But a few pages before your post would've probably cleared up anything involving the Vette.

 

[Dravonic]

Why should we take the time to construct a friendly reply when people can't take the time to, oh, read the actual argument they plan on jumping into? Why should we be making an effort for people who can't be bothered?

I feel your pain. This thread is screwed up enough already without uninformed people bringing up nonsense but, well, let's try to keep it civilized.

Why can't I say my opinion? And why must everyone else say their's over and over?
As for reading 64 pages of you guys...

I also feel your pain. It's been hard enough for me to keep track of this mess and I've been reading this from day one. To ask someone to read it all before posting, is to expect too much.

Either way, not everything is debatable and unfortunately this is one of them. That car is premium and "interior views" is plain english for every single "interior view" and, unfortunately, the cockpit view, dash view, or whatever it is you want to call it, is an "interior view". So, it's not a matter of opinion.

 

[eSZee]

Nobody replied with the picture proof that I did. 💡

Dapper himself posted the proof in his post asking if the vette pictured was premium. He was told all the body panels on the vette were modeled separately unlike the standard cars. There's the proof.

 

[GasolineJunkie]

Why should we take the time to construct a friendly reply when people can't take the time to, oh, read the actual argument they plan on jumping into? Why should we be making an effort for people who can't be bothered?

Being a new member myself and a big fan of the series, are we really expected to read a whole post before we can comment or ask questions? If I want to comment on the general discussion thread, must I first read all thousands of posts?
I just don't understand how a small post like Dappers made could possibly ruin some peoples days like it seems to have done.
As for the interiors, my hopes are still up so go ahead and bash me because I don't agree with some of you. I believe interior is meant to mean behind exterior panels such as being able to see susppension if a fender falls of or the engine bay if the hood falls off. Since standard doesn't have any panels falling off, there is no reason to model this type of "interior"
Why would they say premium is detailed to the last stitch on the seats if standard didn't have a cockpit view at all?

 

[gtracedriver]

That's great, nice one guys, way to welcome people to a 'friendly' site. A simple no, that was a premium car could have sufficed, to go out of your way to make someone feel foolish is wrong. Can't we just argue constructively?

Din't you know ... that in internet and forums especially if you know little more than other person(even though that does not mean much). It is the best way to make yourself feel better and cool

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Being a new member myself and a big fan of the series, are we really expected to read a whole post before we can comment or ask questions? If I want to comment on the general discussion thread, must I first read all thousands of posts?
I just don't understand how a small post like Dappers made could possibly ruin some peoples days like it seems to have done.
As for the interiors, my hopes are still up so go ahead and bash me because I don't agree with some of you. I believe interior is meant to mean behind exterior panels such as being able to see susppension if a fender falls of or the engine bay if the hood falls off. Since standard doesn't have any panels falling off, there is no reason to model this type of "interior"
Why would they say premium is detailed to the last stitch on the seats if standard didn't have a cockpit view at all?

You illustrate my example perfectly: only 4 posts after the one you quoted, I explained how reading an entire thread isn't my point; but reading a few pages before jumping in with outdated (and incorrect) points can save a whole lot of time. Some people are in such a rush to make a post they don't think about if it's been covered or not. Or if it's even accurate.

You can think what you want about interiors. Seeing as how Standards are recycled GT4 models, and only convertibles or special models had a semblance of an interior in those, it's doubtful (however, technically still possible) that Standards will get an interior. They might get a PSP-style blacked out view... oh wait, no they won't, because it's states as such on the official site.

 

[trk29]

You know one thing I was wondering about this standard/premium thing is that people are saying that the standards are ports from GT4.

Now seeing the picture of the standard cars on the main GT site the Lamborghini Countach is labeled as a standard but this car wasn't in GT4 only in GTPSP so I wonder why they wouldn't model that cars cockpit view. Since it is a new car.

 

[GasolineJunkie]

You illustrate my example perfectly: only 4 posts after the one you quoted, I explained how reading an entire thread isn't my point; but reading a few pages before jumping in with outdated (and incorrect) points can save a whole lot of time. Some people are in such a rush to make a post they don't think about if it's been covered or not. Or if it's even accurate.

You can think what you want about interiors. Seeing as how Standards are recycled GT4 models, and only convertibles or special models had a semblance of an interior in those, it's doubtful (however, technically still possible) that Standards will get an interior. They might get a PSP-style blacked out view... oh wait, no they won't, because it's states as such on the official site.

Yes I see that you contradicted the post that I quoted. My point is in any aspect of anything, new people make mistakes. If they do things that should be done better a simple explanation would have prevented this long debate that seems to have taken up almost this whole page. Sorry for bothering you but geez I'm sure some 1000+ posts ago even you were a new member.

Peace.
Let me say that again, peace.

 

[kingcars]

Dapper himself posted the proof in his post asking if the vette pictured was premium. He was told all the body panels on the vette were modeled separately unlike the standard cars. There's the proof.

Unfortunately, many in this thread tend to not understand what that actually means, so picture proof is generally a requirement.

You know one thing I was wondering about this standard/premium thing is that people are saying that the standards are ports from GT4.

Now seeing the picture of the standard cars on the main GT site the Lamborghini Countach is labeled as a standard but this car wasn't in GT4 only in GTPSP so I wonder why they wouldn't model that cars cockpit view. Since it is a new car.

GTPSP port.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes I see that you contradicted the post that I quoted. My point is in any aspect of anything, new people make mistakes. If they do things that should be done better a simple explanation would have prevented this long debate that seems to have taken up almost this whole page. Sorry for bothering you but geez I'm sure some 1000+ posts ago even you were a new member.

Peace.
Let me say that again, peace.

Fair points. Without wanting to get to far off-topic, the issue is there are usually two kinds of new members; those that search for an answer to their questions, and those who post them blindly, expecting the members to do the looking for them. I'm not saying Dapper falls completely in the latter, but seeing as this has been the main huge[/i] issue in the boards since E3, a little bit of looking could've solved it.

I'm sure once the game is released, and we have some solid answers that can be posted in sticky'd FAQ's, a lot of redundant questions won't be asked. Until then, it's up to members. It gets very tiring to have to re-explain the same thing time and time again...

Gah, ramble I have. Woops.

 

[kingcars]

So...is this thread over yet?

 

[Devedander]

Yes I see that you contradicted the post that I quoted. My point is in any aspect of anything, new people make mistakes. If they do things that should be done better a simple explanation would have prevented this long debate that seems to have taken up almost this whole page. Sorry for bothering you but geez I'm sure some 1000+ posts ago even you were a new member.

Peace.
Let me say that again, peace.

The problem is there is heated enough debate already between people who at least know what's going on. When someone pops in and starts spouting garbage it makes things totally degrade because in lesser cases he is assumed to know what he is talking about and just being inflamitory and in worse cases like this it's just irritating, especially when he comes back and tries to act like we are wrong telling him it's a standard model when he is the one who clearly made no attempt to verify what he is claiming.

 

[freshseth83]

Jump on the new guy in the forum. That's weak, give him a break, it's a mistake, he just defended himself. Not unlike any of you would do.

 

[RedBaron]

GTPSP port.

Not. Kaz already said he is proud that PSP cars are ported from GT5 models, not the other way.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

No matter how you cut the interior/cockpit debate, I still find it almost inconceivable, after 5+ years, all cars would not have some sort of racing cockpit view.
Talk about old gen.
Thats apparently what were getting.

I think its also blatantly obvious, PD has attempted to include way too much in this game, that they can't really deliver on. At least without it turning into a ridiculous 8 to 10 year project.


I'm beginning to lean toward the idea they would have been better off to go for 700 or so cars, with good modeling in and out, instead of this stark of a reality between 80% of the cars and the other 20%.


EDIT: Kaz, IMO found the the lure of the PS3's graphic capabilites, too irresistible. The problem is that pushes the game into the GT6 objectives.
Hence we have the time overrun and most of the cars will be spiffed up GT4 models.
In all fairness however, I don't think Kaz saw the PSP thing coming and lost 6+ or who knows how many months dev time on GT5.
Maybe the correct designation for this GT edition would be GT5.46

 

[GTXLR]

No matter how you cut the interior/cockpit debate, I still find it almost inconceivable, after 5+ years, all cars would not have some sort of racing cockpit view.
Talk about old gen.
Thats apparently what were getting.

I think its also blatantly obvious, PD has attempted to include way too much in this game, that they can't really deliver on. At least without it turning into a ridiculous 8 to 10year project.


I'm beginning to lean toward the idea they would have been better off to go for 700 or so cars, with good modeling in and out, instead of this stark of a reality between 80% of the cars and the other 20%.

I have much sympathy for what is said here, but IMHO the problem is that from the very inception of GT for the PS3 was the title was always planned as a Two tier game, or effectively two seperate games in one.

It initially started out after the end of GT4, with the knwoledge that a descent stab at a full fledged GT for PS3 would take a significant number of years to develop, among many factors was the not insignificant time it would take to model such a substantial product.

Sony And PD were looking to release a GT title early in the PS3 lifecycle and a strategy was developed to produce a title called GTHD
Polyphony began working on this strategy from day one.

The game would be split into two completely seperate parts:

GTHD Classic
This Part of the game would use assets from previous GT'S that would be tweaked for HD output.

GTHD Premium
This Part of the Game would use assets built completely from scratch to show the full potential of what the PS3 was capable of.

GTHD was meant to offer a taster for what would be GT5 and also give gamers a chance to play an enhanced version of GT4 on PS3 making use of HD technology.

The concept for GTHD that was put to the press was that GTHD Classic would feature approx 770 cars and 50 tracks, of which some 400+ cars would be available to the user out of the box and the rest would be available as purchaseable download content.
The GTHD Premium Part would feature only approximately 70 newly modeled cars and a limited number of new tracks (i cannot remember now the number mentioned at the time)

PD had worked on this concept considerably as a goal to releasing its first PS3 GT title.
However, The Idea was universally panned and criticised when it went public for its use of micro transactions, and that was pretty much the last we heard of GTHD.

A rethink was obviously taken and a decision made to delay the next GT until such time as a title with enough content to reflect a full GT title could be built.
PD have set about this over the past few years, working on rebuilding game engines, developing many new aspects of the game, along with the extensive modelling required to build the new Premium cars and tracks, in order to deliver a completely fresh product which would apperar to be of a similar scale as GT3.
The developement period has been substantial and in order to satisfy GT fans/ PS3 owners and also probably Sony, PD released GT5 Prolugue to Provide a Taster.

Its been indicated from day one of the first GT for PS3 development That KY and his team had planned to use the reworked assets of GT4 for part of the next GT and they obviously spent a great deal of time on them for HD.

IMO from everything we have seen and heard over the years at the conferences in press interviews and from sources such as AMAR212 👍 This has always been the strategy, it something that has never gone away, its just that since Prologue5 its not been highlighted as much, leading many to foget it or believe it had gone.

As i see it GT5 will definately be in two parts integrated in one package.
probably something not to disimilar to the Orginal HD Idea.

GT5 Premium
200+ Premium cars with full interior modelling and dashboard view, full working lights with high and low beams, Premium damage and 20+ Premium quality tracks with 70 plus layouts, day and night transitions and possibly weather transitions

GT5 Standard
800+ Standard cars with no viewable interior and no modelled dashboard view, textured headlights with low beams only (ala previous GT's), Standard Damage, Many Previous GT Tracks (standard) but enhanced/remodeled for HD, fixed day and fixed night tracks ala previous GT's, fixed wet Tracks also.

I believe each part will be available under one Game front and will feature in most if not all of the games other features.
I also believe the new physics and AI engines will be shared by both parts of the game.

As a note, i believe GT5 has been ready as a viable product for shipment for sometime, however the build up for 3D by Sony really isnt going to get going full pace until later this year, And belive PD and Kaz have taken the extra time afforded them by this release strategy to tweak refine and continue to add to the product.

I for one will certainley enjoy Both parts of the game if this turns out to be the outline of the final product, as after years of anticipation for GT4 and as a enthusiastic follower of the GT franchise from GT1, i was sorely dissapointed with GT4 as it just never felt right in the physics with my G25 wheel, and in the end I could never really feel the worth in investing substantial time with it.
In the Meantime I have Graduated to PC sims, invested in a Fanatec Wheel and had an enjoyable dabble in Forza 2 and 3 and others, but now i will hopefully get to enjoy not only the impressive delights of GT5 Premium but also to relive much of what i missed with GT4 in a much enhanced model

 

[pay2021]

^ In a few words: he got his own way (Kaz)

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I have much sympathy for what is said here, but IMHO the problem is that from the very inception of GT for the PS3 was the title was always planned as a Two tier game, or effectively two seperate games in one.

It initially started out after the end of GT4, with the knwoledge that a descent stab at a full fledged GT for PS3 would take a significant number of years to develop, among many factors was the not insignificant time it would take to model such a substantial product.

Sony And PD were looking to release a GT title early in the PS3 lifecycle and a strategy was developed to produce a title called GTHD
Polyphony began working on this strategy from day one.

The game would be split into two completely seperate parts:

GTHD Classic
This Part of the game would use assets from previous GT'S that would be tweaked for HD output.

GTHD Premium
This Part of the Game would use assets built completely from scratch to show the full potential of what the PS3 was capable of.

GTHD was meant to offer a taster for what would be GT5 and also give gamers a chance to play an enhanced version of GT4 on PS3 making use of HD technology.

The concept for GTHD that was put to the press was that GTHD Classic would feature approx 770 cars and 50 tracks, of which some 400+ cars would be available to the user out of the box and the rest would be available as purchaseable download content.
The GTHD Premium Part would feature only approximately 70 newly modeled cars and a limited number of new tracks (i cannot remember now the number mentioned at the time)

PD had worked on this concept considerably as a goal to releasing its first PS3 GT title.
However, The Idea was universally panned and criticised when it went public for its use of micro transactions, and that was pretty much the last we heard of GTHD.

A rethink was obviously taken and a decision made to delay the next GT until such time as a title with enough content to reflect a full GT title could be built.
PD have set about this over the past few years, working on rebuilding game engines, developing many new aspects of the game, along with the extensive modelling required to build the new Premium cars and tracks, in order to deliver a completely fresh product which would apperar to be of a similar scale as GT3.
The developement period has been substantial and in order to satisfy GT fans/ PS3 owners and also probably Sony, PD released GT5 Prolugue to Provide a Taster.

Its been indicated from day one of the first GT for PS3 development That KY and his team had planned to use the reworked assets of GT4 for part of the next GT and they obviously spent a great deal of time on them for HD.

IMO from everything we have seen and heard over the years at the conferences in press interviews and from sources such as AMAR212 👍 This has always been the strategy, it something that has never gone away, its just that since Prologue5 its not been highlighted as much, leading many to foget it or believe it had gone.

As i see it GT5 will definately be in two parts integrated in one package.
probably something not to disimilar to the Orginal HD Idea.

GT5 Premium
200+ Premium cars with full interior modelling and dashboard view, full working lights with high and low beams, Premium damage and 20+ Premium quality tracks with 70 plus layouts, day and night transitions and possibly weather transitions

GT5 Standard
800+ Standard cars with no viewable interior and no modelled dashboard view, textured headlights with low beams only (ala previous GT's), Standard Damage, Many Previous GT Tracks (standard) but enhanced/remodeled for HD, fixed day and fixed night tracks ala previous GT's, fixed wet Tracks also.

I believe each part will be available under one Game front and will feature in most if not all of the games other features.
I also believe the new physics and AI engines will be shared by both parts of the game.

As a note, i believe GT5 has been ready as a viable product for shipment for sometime, however the build up for 3D by Sony really isnt going to get going full pace until later this year, And belive PD and Kaz have taken the extra time afforded them by this release strategy to tweak refine and continue to add to the product.

I for one will certainley enjoy Both parts of the game if this turns out to be the outline of the final product, as after years of anticipation for GT4 and as a enthusiastic follower of the GT franchise from GT1, i was sorely dissapointed with GT4 as it just never felt right in the physics with my G25 wheel, and in the end I could never really feel the worth in investing substantial time with it.
In the Meantime I have Graduated to PC sims, invested in a Fanatec Wheel and had an enjoyable dabble in Forza 2 and 3 and others, but now i will hopefully get to enjoy not only the impressive delights of GT5 Premium but also to relive much of what i missed with GT4 in a much enhanced model

I think your explanation is right about most of the development of this game.

Since this is a departure from the previous GTs, I've probably been somewhat naive in assuming the split would not be as pronounced as it looks like it will be.

At this point I'm confident it will still be a great game.

After a sort of warm up period, I grew to love GT4. Part of that was the adjustment to the physics from 3 to 4. Although I'm not a wheel man, I was seriously considering buying one when GT5 came out, but now I'm not as enthused about it. I'll have to wait and play the finished product before I decide.

 

[eSZee]

Unfortunately, many in this thread tend to not understand what that actually means, so picture proof is generally a requirement.



GTPSP port.

If they don't know what makes a car premium or how to tell it apart from standard, then how is a picture going to help?
You post a picture, say it's pretty and case closed?

 

[kingcars]

If they don't know what makes a car premium or how to tell it apart from standard, then how is a picture going to help?

The picture he first posted of the car in the showroom does not clearly show an interior, which is the biggest, easiest-to-notice difference. The picture I posted does clearly show it. Please drop this...why are you still going on about me posting a picture to help clarify a point?

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

So let me get this straight...standard models, are the High quality models of the cars from the GT4 car selection screen... Which are almost comparable to Forza 3 models... Now they are even higher quality, And people are complaining? I'm sorry but no.

GT4 boasted, the most accurately modeled car's i have ever seen in a racing game,
They were PERFECT, Modeled down to a T with the real life counter parts, Go to a chevorlet classic show room and look at the classics, Thoughs models look like they are Straight from this Gen, How can you complain about car's that look that good? And thats from a PS2!, Seriously...

And GT5 is not the only car that ported models from past games. If your a forza gamer(me) You would know what i'm talking about.

Cars like the srt4,ford focus,Honda civic, Acura integra, honda S2000,Nissan skyline R32 GTR and a whole lot more Are all ported from Forza 1,also forza 2, and now they are in 3, While the Nissan skyline BNR34 GTR, mitsubitshi lancer EVO 9, subaru impreza STI, Were all redone from scratch. sad example...

That same flat dull looking DC2 From forza 1, same weird shape, same dull head lights that look like a flat texture..Just does not look like an integra. It's a bit sad, the Dc2 ITR is one of my favorate cars, and this is the most poor recreation i have ever seen in a game.(Big image)

Super accurate DC2 from GT4. Keep in mind this is playstation 2. This recreation, is Beautiful. You can tell PD spent time on this model. it is very accurate.

Real life image of a DC2 ITR.

 

[Strittan]

Just because they look better than the cars in Forza 3, doesn't mean they look good compared to GT5's premium models. It's not the standard cars in GT5 that looks good, it's the cars in Forza 3 that looks terrible. Some of 'em at least.

EDIT: God damn, that Integra in Forza 3 looks... horrible! I'm not trying to sound like a GT fanboy, but seriously, just look at it!

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Hey Torque, compare a Forza 3 car model to a GT5 Standard car model. Then tell me they're even remotely on the same level. If you think GT4 models are "perfect", I'm curious what GT5 models must represent .

Painted on shutlines in place of properly modelled, individual body panels is certainly not "straight from this Gen". I mean, you're welcome to have your opinion that GT4 models look better than FM3 models... but I'd love to know the qualifier for that other than "I like GT more".

 

[brewski18]

All cars will have a cockpit view, jeeeeeze, stop whining people. The level of "standard cars" wont be less that GT5P. Those are all awesome cars....those are "standard"

 

[Slurm]

Great post GTXLR. 👍