Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

[JCE]

Points to 6spd in FPV models handling over 310kw and 550Nm.



Really? 422hp weak? Wow, that's surprising.

Yes it is. I won't go into the long drawn out reason why--just that with 6.2L and endless capabilities of R&D and that's all they could squeeze out?

422HP is ofcourse top notch.....coming from a 4.2L engine. I expect more from a 6.2L engine. (Though I would love to own the new Camaro with that engine in it )

I'd prefer the Camaro in my garage too--but I still think it needs more power from such a large displacement engine.

Who cares how much damn power they get from a given displacement, sheesh. The M3's engine is far more highly strung than an LS3. Just means that if you wanted mods the LS3 has more potential. I'm sick of hearing "Oh, it's not a very good power figure for >6L of displacement".

Get used to it, as its the truth. Audi and BMW does more with less--while Mercedes does more with the same.

Wait, "gutless," what the hell are you talking about? I'd say that "gutless" would be a 5.0L V8 with less than 200 BHP.

I really hope you just didn't take it personal by insulting my Camaro. We can go all day long arguing about this issue--just don't insult my car.

Of course: C63 AMG.

+1 That's my new "omfg I want" at the moment. The noise alone is worth the price of admission. AMG V8s just make a better noise than LS series engines to my ears.

Or the SL 63 AMG. But in that case, I would rather have the Camaro and a new house.

I'll take the Merc.

Houses are overrated, as the seats in the SL most likely recline.

You and are I on the same page. I'll take an SL55/SL63 over a house easy. 👍

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Well, get used to it, because it's not a good power figure for a 6.2L engine anymore. And I guess you completely missed my remark about actually wanting to have one of those sitting in my garage. 👎

Because I feel those US muscle cars have several major advantages over their more advanced European cousins: cheaper (both to buy and to maintain, especially if you don't buy a new one) and they're a lot more comfortable than those European ultra-hard suspension cars. And you don't see them a lot over here in Europe, which is nice if you want to stand out. (Though not as rare as Holdens ) And you're definitely right about the tuning potential, slap a couple of turbo's on the 6.2L and I'm pretty sure you can get more power from it than from a 4.2L.

For comparison: a new BMW M3 will set me back 100K in Euro's, the new Camaro will probably sell for around 60K or so, assuming it will be around the price of a Charger SRT-8 (which is also a very cool car BTW). And you really don't want to know what BMW charges for its spare parts. The fuel consumption will be about the same I guess. Though it actually might be lower for the Camaro if it uses the MDS system. Does anybody know that?

But the Camaro 6.2L is high on my wishlist when I'm tired of the 350Z. Should be relatively cheap in a year or two. BTW, I would have bought a Mustang GT instead of the 350Z if a decent 2nd hand one was available in the Netherlands, which unfortunately, there was not at that moment.

Summarizing: I do love the muscle cars, I just think those large engines are a dying breed.

But really, so you're saying that if I want a real muscle car soundtrack I need to have 600hp and 10mpg? Displacement doesn't matter, end power does (and over 400hp is a damn lot), soundtrack matters (And I'd prefer a roar over a scream), and as we've agreed having that extra displacement means more potential for power hungry maniacs.

Yes it is. I won't go into the long drawn out reason why--just that with 6.2L and endless capabilities of R&D and that's all they could squeeze out?

I'd prefer the Camaro in my garage too--but I still think it needs more power from such a large displacement engine.

Get used to it, as its the truth. Audi and BMW does more with less--while Mercedes does more with the same.
tup:

More with less? Big deal, power is power no matter how it's made, but read my reasoning in my response to NLxAROSA. I don't mind when people talk about power:displacement, I just laugh and shrug it off, because if that's honestly something you care about, that's up to you.

 

[NLxAROSA]

But really, so you're saying that if I want a real muscle car soundtrack I need to have 600hp and 10mpg?

I really don't think you should care about mpg when buying sportscars. You'll just get disappointed.

Muscle to me equals large-sized V8 (more cylinders is ok ), engine roar, relatively cheap and massive HP (compared to other sportscars). 420HP is a lot, but is it enough to be something special compared to other cars in the same class? But then again, maybe I'm just spoiled.

And we agreed, there's so much more potential in there. Why not squeeze out a little more right from the start? They manage 300HP from the 3.6 V6, there should be more coming from the 6.2 V8 without serious modifications. I'm sure they'd be able to pull 500HP from there without a turbo or compressor if they wanted.

But you're right about one thing: whatever the engine size, there is only one thing that matters: how the damn' thing drives, and I'm pretty sure that will be very good! 👍

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I really don't think you should care about mpg when buying sportscars. You'll just get disappointed.

Muscle to me equals large-sized V8 (more cylinders is ok ), engine roar, relatively cheap and massive HP (compared to other sportscars). 420HP is a lot, but is it enough to be something special compared to other cars in the same class? But then again, maybe I'm just spoiled.

Why not, it's still up against other 400hp V8s, regardless of displacement. The truest disappointment is the Mustang's V8, only putting 300hp from a V8 is sad, especially when the same engine design puts out 315kw down here in Australia.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

We already had the displacement discussion elsewhere, let's not bring it in here.

 

[YSSMAN]

And we agreed, there's so much more potential in there. Why not squeeze out a little more right from the start? They manage 300HP from the 3.6 V6, there should be more coming from the 6.2 V8 without serious modifications. I'm sure they'd be able to pull 500HP from there without a turbo or compressor if they wanted.

That'd be 556 BHP in the Cadillac CTS-V (6.2L LSA) or 622 BHP in the ZR1 (6.2L LS9).

The problem with the current generation of V8s is that they aren't fitting the new power-adding stuff because they know that they've got another new engine coming down the pipe. I'm under the assumption that a 5.3L V8 (rumored to replace the LS3) with direct-injection and VVT will likely produce the same 400-ish BHP, but will likely have a power curve that is slanted a bit more to the mid/upper-range than the low-end.

Further complicating the issue is that GM hasn't been talking about new V8s at all, really. We know that they canceled the Ultra V8 program earlier in the year (was to replace the Northstar program, 4.0-4.2L V8s making 350+ BHP), and they've said that the GenV small-blocks are coming, but that's all we know. With gas being expensive and more money being dumped into smaller-displacement engines (with smaller cylinder counts), it seems likely that GM will ride on the GenIV V8 as long as possible. They're good, strong, reliable and shockingly fuel-efficent engines (for their size) and will serve their job as best as possible as long as GM keeps throwing small updates at it.

I'm still crossing my fingers for the GM engineers to get "creative" and cast the 5.3L Vortec in aluminum, put on a DIG system, and see what kind of power comes out. I'm desperate for a new 327ci Camaro... IMO, it was the best engine they offered in the car during the first generation.

 

[JCE]

I'm still crossing my fingers for the GM engineers to get "creative" and cast the 5.3L Vortec in aluminum, put on a DIG system, and see what kind of power comes out. I'm desperate for a new 327ci Camaro... IMO, it was the best engine they offered in the car during the first generation.

Call me when this happens as I'll sell your organs for one.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I didn't read the entire topic, but is anyone here actually planning on buying a Camaro as soon as it comes out?

 

[Tornado]

YSSMAN's father preordered one, I think.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I didn't read the entire topic, but is anyone here actually planning on buying a Camaro as soon as it comes out?

Believe me, if I could afford a 2nd car right now, this would be it, in manual V6 RS Trim. As I've said, this car is possibly in my no.1 spot of wants right now, and the only thing that could change it is the pending Alpha platform.

 

[YSSMAN]

YSSMAN's father preordered one, I think.

He said hes got money on one before, but his rhetoric has changed a bit. I think the lease on the Avalanche is done June/July 2009, so I assume that's what he'll be replacing with the Camaro. Otherwise, I'm not sure.

My Grandfather is looking to order one as well, but he wants to see one in the flesh first.

 

[YSSMAN]

The Aussies Have A Plan!

Reuss believes the fuel economy of a regular, petrol engine Commodore can be reduced by 20 per cent or more. He says today’s official average fuel consumption figure of 10.8 litres per 100km could drop to 8.5L/100km.

That would make the entry-level Commodore as efficient as many of today’s smaller, mid-sized four-cylinder cars. A Mazda 6 uses a claimed 8.4 litres of fuel per 100km while a Toyota Camry uses 9.9L/100km.

Note: 8.5L/100km is roughly equal to 28 (US) MPG.

How?

Run flat tires replacing spares, using more lightweight materials in and out of the car, using simple modifications already in use to increase efficiency, etc.

My first thought: It sounds just like the Chevrolet "XFE" (xtra-fuel-economy) program they run here in North America.

My second thought: When will this apply to the Pontiac G8?

Afterthought: Why didn't they think of this before?

So, in a perfect world, they shove the 260 BHP DIG Turbo in there, strap it to a six-speed stick, deck it out with all of the weight-saving materials, and finally get around to offering a hybrid and diesel model. Gas crisis in big cars, SOLVED!

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

My thoughts:

Run flat tyres will kill the performance pedigree of the Commodore with lowsy performance.
Alternative fuels should not be used on performance models, base models and luxury models only please.
What's electric power steering and how is it different, and is it worse than normal in terms of performance?
Excellent, lighter body and seats, will help performance, probably not enough to negate the crappy tyres.
8.5L/100km?!?!?! Frig'n awesome economy.
Will Camaro get weight saving technology too?
Underbody panel, better aero, woo hoo!

Edit:

Reuss plans to circumvent those concerns by giving buyers the choice between regular tyres (including a spare) and runflat tyres.

“[We’ll] make it a free option and tell the customer how much fuel they’re going to save by not carrying it around in the city,” he says. “As long as we option it at no cost then who cares? If [a spare tyre] is what you want and you’ve got to have it then great, but don’t penalise everybody [by adding weight].”

Now we talkin'.

Edit 2: It all sounds very promising, but I don't want the performance to be compromised, so hopefuly it won't be.

PS- The Aussies always have a plan. If it wasn't for us, GM would be in an even bigger hole.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

They forgot the rear spoiler deletion to decrease drag.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

They forgot the rear spoiler deletion to decrease drag.

The rear spoiler is only on SV6 and SS models, or if in the G8, no spoiler is present, it's here to stay on the performance models I hope.

 

[Greycap]

What's electric power steering and how is it different, and is it worse than normal in terms of performance?

The power steering system is run by an electric motor that gets its power from the battery instead of a hydraulic pump that gets its power from the engine crankshaft. The good thing is that it doesn't cause the power loss (and thus the fuel consumption increase) of the hydraulic system, the bad thing is that more often then not the electric systems are miles behind the hydraulics when it comes to the steering feel.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The power steering system is run by an electric motor that gets its power from the battery instead of a hydraulic pump that gets its power from the engine crankshaft. The good thing is that it doesn't cause the power loss (and thus the fuel consumption increase) of the hydraulic system, the bad thing is that more often then not the electric systems are miles behind the hydraulics when it comes to the steering feel.

I don't like the sound of that, sounds like the Commodore is going to become a drag race special.

 

[Jay]

Electric steering is lighter also.

 

[YSSMAN]

...the bad thing is that more often then not the electric systems are miles behind the hydraulics when it comes to the steering feel.

Spot on!

The first time I drove an electric steering box car was a Chevrolet Cobalt LT, and compared to my Jetta of the time, I just couldn't deal with it. It wasn't that it was sloppy or vague, it just didn't "connect" your hands with the tires, and I didn't like that. Volkswagen (as I recall) runs an electric box on the Rabbit, and it works pretty well, so there are some out there that can do it right.

 

[Jim Prower]

I think if the electric boxes had less power, it might work, but it's difficult striking that balance.

Perhaps if they really wanna save weight they just need manual steering and a foot-and-a-half wide steering wheel. (This is a joke.)

 

[Jay]

Perhaps if they really wanna save weight they just need manual steering and a foot-and-a-half wide steering wheel. (This is a joke.)

with a 1/2 inch of wheel thickness!!

 

[YSSMAN]

The Full Brochure is Out...

Well, it still sounds like its the LT V6 with the RS package that will be the sweet-spot for most people. I'd likely go for the SS in victory red, probably with the stick, and skip the special orange interior accents.

 

[JCE]

How can I steal one of these?

 

[Blackbird.]

Somehow I'm trying to contemplate how I'll be able to afford a brand new Camaro RS while a Senior in high school.....

...

Yeah not gonna happen.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm crossing my fingers that both my Dad and my Grandpa are 100% getting one. It seems like a near-certainty that Dad will get an SS with a stick, which will be awesome.

 

[YSSMAN]

A small photo gallery of the new SS, leaked out of course. But, this also came across the wire...

This year is going to be awesome!

 

[Tornado]

The Camaro looks the worst in black.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The Camaro looks the worst in black.

I'd say that's because that's a V6 model without the RS package even, and the light is shining off it in a way that makes it look more rounded and boring, we need a better picture.

 

[McLaren]

Brad, I haven't read up on all the available options yet, but are stripes an option? I'd love to get a black SS/RS/whichever they've designated as the highest model with white stripes. Hoping it's an available option, b/c if so, I def. will look at getting one after the TL. I'll try to test drive one of these new suckers as well when they're available here.

 

[YSSMAN]

According to the dealer sheets there, there will only be two colors available with stripes for the first year, dark gray and white. I'm personally under the assumption that more colors will be added with stripes later (a yellow/black and red/black combo seems inevitable), not to mention what seems like a fairly certain return of the older SS and RS style stripes eventually. Otherwise, I'm willing to bet that it will be a dealer-installed option on every model too.

Also: Edmunds has a first-drive with the V6 model, which at least in my opinion, will be the cream of the crop when it comes to most people's purchases.