Zeta News: Holden Pres Says Camaro Prototypes Due By X-Mas

[Wolfe]

Still the average Impala owner doesn't care whether or not they have RWD or FWD.

How many times are you going to recycle that response? Us RWD-heads didn't listen the first time, I doubt we'll listen the seventh.

Specifically, in this case, Onikaze said that he wants GM to make RWD cars. Onikaze isn't your "average Impala owner," and he definitely cares whether or not they have RWD or FWD.

Since when do societal trends disprove an individual's opinion? 💡

 

[Onikaze]

The average new impala owner, isn't the same type of person who would have bought the old impala.

The old Impala fans have moved on to other brands, but I bet they'd come back for a RWD resurrection.

 

[YSSMAN]

My Grandfather and my Dad all drove Impalas back in the '60s and '70s, and one of which had the modern '94-'96 Impala SS, so buying one of the new models is a definite possibility next year, as they are looking to move back down to full size cars from full size SUVs. The RWD Impala will bring a lot of people back, and it will probably create quite a few new fans.

If they can build a 400HP SS model with an available T56 for less than $35K, they will steal sales away from Chrysler, as that would be a steal...The same can be said of the Pontiac Grand Prix GXP with similar equipment, that my knock on BMW and Mercedes' doors as well.

 

[Onikaze]

Last I checked, the Commodores and Monaros were pretty decent handling cars.

If the Zeta's improve on that, and can get some nice dynamics in, have decent styling (not that the new Impala really looks BAD per se, it's just a wasted effort with a FWD car) I could seriously see them pulling people away from German and Japanese RWD cars.

Not to mention, how many people buy SUV's or Trucks because they are the last bastion of GM RWD passenger vehicles? How many of them would love to have a RWD option with 20+ mpg? Or 30?

 

[Wolfe]

Not to mention, how many people buy SUV's or Trucks because they are the last bastion of GM RWD passenger vehicles? How many of them would love to have a RWD option with 20+ mpg? Or 30?

+1. When you think about it, it makes sense.

 

[Joey D]

How many times are you going to recycle that response? Us RWD-heads didn't listen the first time, I doubt we'll listen the seventh.

Specifically, in this case, Onikaze said that he wants GM to make RWD cars. Onikaze isn't your "average Impala owner," and he definitely cares whether or not they have RWD or FWD.

Since when do societal trends disprove an individual's opinion? 💡

You realize the RWD enthusist don't make up the the majority of the car buying population right? Look at your typically sedan owner...they are middle aged, decent job, maybe kids, probably married, fairly settled down in life...this is why the Camry sells so well, it lures those buyers. FWD is perfectly fine for a family sedan...it's a FAMILY sedan, not a sports sedan. If GM wants to make a Chevy sports sedan just use the CTS platform which is more then suffcient.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Ahh, but the Charger and 300C both sell well as family sedans as well, and those are both RWD. But they sell well because they are distinctive and offer a different driving expirience as compared with that from Japan and their American competition.

If they can agressively style and price the Impala, they will not only lure in previous owners, but new ones as well.

 

[Onikaze]

Ding!

"Hmmm, I could pick up an old BMW or Lexus to get something with a V-8 and sporty handling...oh, hey, the new Impala just went back to RWD, I'll have to go test drive that, it's cheaper than both of those!"

There isn't a new Chevy besides the Corvette that I would currently be caught dead driving. I'd like it if that changed.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well I would bet that the Pontiac Grand Prix once it goes RWD will be happy to chase down G35s and 330is all day for about $30K with a V8 and a 6-speed manual. The styling would be agressive, and you can bet that the standard twin-nostril grille will be a big feature of the front. Ahh, but we may also be looking at what would baisicly be a four-door GTO, similar to how the Commodore compared to the Monaro.

The Impala will probably be a tad bit on the softer side, with a better balance of ride/handling, and will be looking to knock the Charger off as the dominant RWD sedan. Not to say the SS version would be without sporting abilities, but they would be turned down to say a 9, compared to Pontiac's 11. Straightline performance and quiet/smooth highway crusing will be the Impala's specialty.

However, the Buick Invicta will be looking to finially put GM ahead of Lexus in the entry-level luxury market. I'd be looking at a level 7 Invicta to be putting the ES350 in a choke hold, offering similar ammounts of civility and quitet cruising, but the big advantage for Buick is going to be the addition of a V8 and a cheaper price.

 

[Lt.Doomsday]

hell,i drive a 72' Impala 4 Door.not doing much driving due to the water pump crapping out.

i'd go test drive a new impala if it was RWD backed by an LS-1 and had dual exhaust{true dual,not that 1 into 2 B.S.}

 

[Jay]

Last I checked, the Commodores and Monaros were pretty decent handling cars.

They are? Stock base models are boats (well Monaro is ok in base form), but HSV's handle quite well indeed.

 

[YSSMAN]

^^^Most Americans are under the impression that the Monaro and Comodore are both great handeling large coupes and sedans, but the problem is that it is all based on the GTO, which is obviously based on the Monaro CV8, a sportier version in the lineup.

I wouldnt expect the cars to completely outhandle a BMW, but I would want to atleast have the cars able to match the G35 or CTS...

 

[Onikaze]

The HSV's with less squashy tuned suspension.

The cars have a tight enough structure that they can handle nicely if they aren't floated too much by loose springs.

 

[Onikaze]

The HSV's with less squashy tuned suspension.

The cars have a tight enough structure that they can handle nicely if they aren't floated too much by loose springs.

 

[Jim Prower]

Server hiccup, Onikaze?

I'm beginning to worry. My beloved Charger and 300C might not be able to keep up with these Zetas for the price!!

 

[Onikaze]

Hell of a hickup, I even tried to delete one and had no luck, lol.

I know that the cars were tuned squishy, but they had a solid base to build upon.

 

[YSSMAN]

The biggest advantage the Zeta cars will have over the LX Cars from DCX will be the optional manual transmissions, and presumably lower prices.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Hmmm....

The Charger and the 300C sells partially on the unique design and its frequent appearance and backing by rappers. Thats part of the reason, I think.

 

[Wolfe]

You realize the RWD enthusist don't make up the the majority of the car buying population right?

You realize that what Onikaze and I said had nothing to do with what the population wants, but what he and I, as individuals, would like to see, right?

Regardless, the demand for RWD is there. It might not be the majority, but it doesn't have to be.

Well I would bet that the Pontiac Grand Prix once it goes RWD will be happy to chase down G35s and 330is all day for about $30K with a V8 and a 6-speed manual.

I don't even like Pontiac, and you've got me excited just thinking about that...

Regardless of the fact that I would still prefer the 330i in that situation, competition is always a good thing.

 

[YSSMAN]

Of course competition is a good thing, but being that the GP GXP is suppose to be an alternative to the 330i, I presume they would do the same with the next version.

I would doubt Pontiac would offer a diesel or hybrid option, so expect engine choises to come in three forms, with three different models respectively.

- Grand Prix GT: 3.9L V6 w/240HP. Available with either a 6-speed manual or a 6T70E Automatic, options will be rather baisic but uplevel compared to that of the base versions of the Impala... Think of this as the equal to the Impala LT. Prices would start in the mid $20s, and fully optioned should stop just south of $30K.

- Grand Prix GTP: 3.6L V6 w/ 255HP, possibly an optional 5.3L V8 with somewhere near 300-325HP.. An available six-speed manual and 6T70E Automatic will probably make this the value-shopper when looking for a new sport sedan. With good power numbers, this should be an alternative to the 325i, and assuming it comes equipped with a halfway-decent suspension, it could be quite good for a high $20K car. This would be roughly the equal to the Impala LTZ, featuring more sport than luxury, but a worthwhile balance nonetheless.

- Grand Prix GXP (Maybe a revival of the Hurst SSJ package?): 6.0L LS2 V8 w/ 400HP. Available with the high-performance Tremec T56 or 6T70E Automatic, this will be the top-line model to start somewhere around the $30K range. Look for performance to be similar to that of the 330i in the bends, or maybe atleast the C350 sport. With V8 power on tap, accelerating to 60MPH should take around five seconds, and top speed should get you near 160MPH. This will be the all-around performer of the Zeta sedans, and there is no question that they will have BMW in their sights...

 

[GT4_Rule]

Making the cars into RWD is truly a great thing - less problems to deal with. No torque steer, proper grip, and good driving sensation. What more can you ask for?

 

[Jay]

^^^Most Americans are under the impression that the Monaro and Comodore are both great handeling large coupes and sedans, but the problem is that it is all based on the GTO, which is obviously based on the Monaro CV8, a sportier version in the lineup.

Yeah thats right, 90% of the Commodores are soft and boaty, SS's are ok, HSV's are good.

 

[Wolfe]

Of course competition is a good thing, but being that the GP GXP is suppose to be an alternative to the 330i, I presume they would do the same with the next version.

Indeed, but the current GP GXP is only supposed to be an alternative to the 330i. If the next one is RWD, it would actually have a fighting chance, much like Cadillac these days...

Making the cars into RWD is truly a great thing - less problems to deal with. No torque steer, proper grip, and good driving sensation. What more can you ask for?

A shorter hood (which opens up room in the car's design for more interior space -- just compare the Golf and the 1-series), no hump under the center-rear passenger's feet, a deeper trunk, less power lost through the drivetrain, a cheaper-to-manufacture drivetrain, and no possible chance of power-oversteer accidents followed by silly lawsuits...?

 

[GT4_Rule]

A shorter hood (which opens up room in the car's design for more interior space -- just compare the Golf and the 1-series), no hump under the center-rear passenger's feet, a deeper trunk, less power lost through the drivetrain, a cheaper-to-manufacture drivetrain, and no possible chance of power-oversteer accidents followed by silly lawsuits...?

True, true.

 

[Jim Prower]

A shorter hood (which opens up room in the car's design for more interior space -- just compare the Golf and the 1-series), no hump under the center-rear passenger's feet, a deeper trunk, less power lost through the drivetrain, a cheaper-to-manufacture drivetrain, and no possible chance of power-oversteer accidents followed by silly lawsuits...?

That's funny, every FWD car I've owned has a hump under the rear passenger's feet. It's for the exhaust.

 

[Onikaze]

Power Oversteer accidents are easily avoided.

Nannies, Tuned in Understeer, etc.

Once those are in place, it requires a willful act to get the car to react violently enough to cause an accident like that, and then you can say "he was driving it well beyond the limits of sanity."

 

[Wolfe]

That's funny, every FWD car I've owned has a hump under the rear passenger's feet. It's for the exhaust.

True enough. I've always wondered why people complain about that in RWD cars when (most) FWD cars have the same hump...but I included it anyway.

Power Oversteer accidents are easily avoided.

Nannies, Tuned in Understeer, etc.

Yep -- too bad Toyota has taken those steps too far.

 

[GT4_Rule]

^^^

 

[YSSMAN]

More good news for the Camaro...

Chrysler may be planning limited production for the Dodge Challenger Concept, but if GM’s Bob Lutz has his way, production of the Chevrolet Camaro Concept will be anything but that. Lutz said in an interview published today that while the Camaro project has not been officially approved, the automaker would only move ahead with it if they could sell more than 100,000 units per year. Given these comments, it looks like the Camaro will directly target the Ford Mustang, as previously indicated by Lutz. In January, he said the Camaro would feature a standard V6 engine and two V8 offerings — each priced against the ‘Stang.

They would have a pretty easy time selling 100,000 units I think, esp. if they price the car well, and equip it with good ammounts of standard features, and have the car get the as-promised 30MPG in almost every model. If I can remember correctly, Ford sells more than 100-150K Mustangs per year, so 100K Camaros seems like an achieveable mark.

...Hell, if they think they are going to have problems, send a few over to Europe and Australia as special models. I'm sure there are a few folks there who would want to buy one!

 

[Onikaze]

So when did I miss him talk about engine offerings?

I take it the 3.9 V-6 for the RS, then 5.3 Z28, and 6.0 SS?