Major explosion and shooting in Oslo

interludes
No, they just grab at anything that can help them run a story - in Australia, legislation has recently been passed to make an adults only classification for games. You can bet that they'll mention it in the "special report".

As expected, the media have latched onto the video game angle. Apparently, Breivik used MODERN WARFARE 2 to "train". However, the press have selectvely edited things to show the infamous "No Russian" stage (which, admittedly, never should have been made), cut with a voiceover about "What does it take to start the next global conflict? The will of one man.", directly implying that Breivik got his ideas from the game.
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Interludes, what headline do you think will sell more headlines.

"MW2 Inspired Norway Massacare" (or something along those lines)
or
"Breivik just abit mental"

Obviously they would go with the prior, it creates more controversy so more people buy it, or take notice of it.
 
Oh please no... Not the violent video game card again... That argument is getting a bit old and redundant now.
 
lbsf1
Interludes, what headline do you think will sell more headlines.

"MW2 Inspired Norway Massacare" (or something along those lines)
or
"Breivik just abit mental"

Obviously they would go with the prior, it creates more controversy so more people buy it, or take notice of it.
Click to expand...

I think it's a bit easy and cynical to say that one headline will sell more than the other and that it's all about money. You may be right that it would create more controversy and maybe sell a bit more, but I would think that any material on Breivik will sell itself these days. I think they are using the game violence angle here for a certain purpose, and it makes me sick. The people responsible should be flogged in public.
 
Truly shocking how badly the police operation during attacks was conducted. Sinking Police Boat?! No helicopter?

It's crazy that people who were in charge (head chief of police and chief of interior ministry) were not given a sack asap.
 
I think whats happened over there is horrible... and even moreso that it almost feels as if its being overshadowed by some famous junkie pulling up stumps
 
mr_geez
Truly shocking how badly the police operation during attacks was conducted. Sinking Police Boat?! No helicopter?

It's crazy that people who were in charge (head chief of police and chief of interior ministry) were not given a sack asap.
Click to expand...

The police did what they could (according to themselves) given the resources they had. The man was arrested within two minutes of ther arrival on the island. They had no helicopter that could be used for this type of operation.
 
176OES
I think whats happened over there is horrible... and even moreso that it almost feels as if its being overshadowed by some famous junkie pulling up stumps
Click to expand...

I think it depends which news source you are looking at, all the websites I've just checked have the events in Norway very much as the main story.

I'm sure it will be investigated further but it does seem like it took the police a very long time to get to the island to arrest him although I'd imagine a relatively small country like Norway without any obvious enemies would not be geared up to deal with an attack like this. When they did he was ready to be caught as he claimed he'd run out of ammo when he had plenty left, it's quite clear he wanted to be taken alive so he could broadcast his message but thankfully the judge has decided that the court case will be conducted behind closed doors therefore preventing it being a platform for him.
 
mr_geez
Truly shocking how badly the police operation during attacks was conducted. Sinking Police Boat?! No helicopter?

It's crazy that people who were in charge (head chief of police and chief of interior ministry) were not given a sack asap.
Click to expand...

Don't forget, they had no idea that Breivik (sp?) was going to shoot up the island until the first shots were fired. The authorities were not ready to face a rampage when that rampage started.
 
Whitestar
The police did what they could (according to themselves) given the resources they had. The man was arrested within two minutes of ther arrival on the island. They had no helicopter that could be used for this type of operation.
Click to expand...

Police arrived (according to reports I saw) 90 (ninety!!) minutes after shooting has started.And he wasn't really arrested after massive police action, he just surrendered when he saw law enforcement troops finally showing up. Until then he was happily walking around island killing innocent people (even going as far as "making sure" he was successful in his actions).

How come Police/Special Forces don't have helicopter for such actions? They don't have an "anti-terrorist" unit? Another shocking fact is that Norwegian TV helicopter was there 40 minutes before the Police Helicopter. It just screams "incompetency!" to me. Unfortunately, I think many lives could have been saved if proper actions were taken.
 
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^ They didn't have an anti-terrorism unit because Norway is an "open society", according to the BBC News website. It's a country where top politicians and royals walk around with very little security, where post is left in unlocked mailboxes, and where many don't lock the doors at night. They did not suspect that someone would carry out a terrorist attack on Norwegian soil.
 
driftking18594
^ They didn't have an anti-terrorism unit because Norway is an "open society", according to the BBC News website. It's a country where top politicians and royals walk around with very little security, where post is left in unlocked mailboxes, and where many don't lock the doors at night. They did not suspect that someone would carry out a terrorist attack on Norwegian soil.
Click to expand...



I think motto of any authorities who are in charge of anyone's safety/security should be: "hope for the best , be prepared for the worst".
 
One piece of 'good' news - the death toll has been adjusted downwards by Norwegian police, from around 95 'confirmed' dead, to 76.
 
It's good to hear that. I wonder were they got the 95 number from though. It seemed like an official statement. Perhaps they counted people missing as well that have been found.

There are however still people missing.
 
interludes
No, they just grab at anything that can help them run a story - in Australia, legislation has recently been passed to make an adults only classification for games. You can bet that they'll mention it in the "special report".

As expected, the media have latched onto the video game angle. Apparently, Breivik used MODERN WARFARE 2 to "train". However, the press have selectvely edited things to show the infamous "No Russian" stage (which, admittedly, never should have been made), cut with a voiceover about "What does it take to start the next global conflict? The will of one man.", directly implying that Breivik got his ideas from the game.
Click to expand...

Not again the video game card. Are the media today really that stupid? Gsus, they getting paid for spreading wrong facts. They should all get fired, even a ape can do a better job. :banghead:

The killer posted a video on youtube & 1518-page manifest which should scare the 🤬 out of every taliban. There's ZERO content of a shooter game included. He's a christian fundamentalist & not a crazy gamer!



Manifest.pdf: 2083: A European Declaration of Independence

Get your facts right, reporter morons. ;)

driftking18594
^ They didn't have an anti-terrorism unit because Norway is an "open society", according to the BBC News website. It's a country where top politicians and royals walk around with very little security, where post is left in unlocked mailboxes, and where many don't lock the doors at night. They did not suspect that someone would carry out a terrorist attack on Norwegian soil.
Click to expand...

Now I am sure they think about that. Or they going to use their military for stuff like that in the future. 👍

The island is only 45 km away from Oslo. With a "standing by" helicoter & special forces crew they could have reached the island in maybe less than 30 minutes, which would have saved around 40 innocent people from the dead.

They should better take a look at their inland security instead of joining wars at the end of the world.
It can't be that a private person can purchase tons of weapons/ammunition & chemicals to build a bomb, enough to bomb out a whole block of houses. :ouch:

Norwegian's inland security = FAILED
 
Oh, God. I just saw an ad for a "special report" comign up on the evening news, about "the role that violent video war-games" played in the massacre.

Video games don't cause violence. People who are unable to distinguish between reality and fantasy cause violence. And given the revelations of the past twenty-four hours, Breivik has bigger issues than playing CALL OF DUTY too often.
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Why would you dismiss out of hand the possible role of video games in influencing this behaviour? There may be many people who are not good at clearly distinguishing between reality & fantasy. If playing violent video games prompts those people to act out those fantasies in reality, are not those games a contributing factor in the resulting violence?
 
Biggles
Why would you dismiss out of hand the possible role of video games in influencing this behaviour? There may be many people who are not good at clearly distinguishing between reality & fantasy. If playing violent video games prompts those people to act out those fantasies in reality, are not those games a contributing factor in the resulting violence?
Click to expand...

Is it the video game's fault? From Interludes' description, I get that the TV report was implying it was.
 
Biggles
Why would you dismiss out of hand the possible role of video games in influencing this behaviour? There may be many people who are not good at clearly distinguishing between reality & fantasy. If playing violent video games prompts those people to act out those fantasies in reality, are not those games a contributing factor in the resulting violence?
Click to expand...
No, they aren't. The decision and action are entirely up to the person, not inanimate, passive digital data.

Any person should be free to make any decision they please. They should take responsibility for that decision, and be prepared for any consequences and punishment that may be handed down based on the legality (or in my perfect world, the morality) of their actions.
 
mr_geez
Police arrived (according to reports I saw) 90 (ninety!!) minutes after shooting has started.And he wasn't really arrested after massive police action, he just surrendered when he saw law enforcement troops finally showing up. Until then he was happily walking around island killing innocent people (even going as far as "making sure" he was successful in his actions).

How come Police/Special Forces don't have helicopter for such actions? They don't have an "anti-terrorist" unit? Another shocking fact is that Norwegian TV helicopter was there 40 minutes before the Police Helicopter. It just screams "incompetency!" to me. Unfortunately, I think many lives could have been saved if proper actions were taken.
Click to expand...

This is what struck me the most too. It is even more sad that many of these deaths could have been prevented with even a minimum level of security.

The first thing I thought when I saw the news helicopter taping the massacre was "if the news can arrive that quickly, why can't the police...who are supposed to be trained in emergency situations?"

In reading more on this...they are now claiming their delta force had no helicopters available in Oslo. Not a single chopper for police use in the entire capital city of a first world country???? That strikes me as utterly incompetent. It's sad that it's going to take a tragedy of such large proportions to change things. I'd be furious about all of this if I was a family member of a victim, though.
 
No, they aren't. The decision and action are entirely up to the person, not inanimate, passive digital data.
Click to expand...

I take this to mean you believe that environment plays absolutely no part in influencing people's decisions?

they should take responsibility for that decision, and be prepared for any consequences and punishment that may be handed down
Click to expand...

How is this any comfort to the scores of children who lost their lives & their families?
 
Max Powers
This is what struck me the most too. It is even more sad that many of these deaths could have been prevented with even a minimum level of security.

The first thing I thought when I saw the news helicopter taping the massacre was "if the news can arrive that quickly, why can't the police...who are supposed to be trained in emergency situations?"

In reading more on this...they are now claiming their delta force had no helicopters available in Oslo. Not a single chopper for police use in the entire capital city of a first world country???? That strikes me as utterly incompetent. It's sad that it's going to take a tragedy of such large proportions to change things. I'd be furious about all of this if I was a family member of a victim, though.
Click to expand...

That's just how the world works. A lot of the time, it's reactive rather thna proactive. Just look at the US. It's now near impossible to hijack a plane, or bring any thing at all illegal onto a plane now, than it was before 9/11. After 2000+ people die, American realize that their people were too vulnerable, and they had massive revamps in airport security.
 
Biggles
Why would you dismiss out of hand the possible role of video games in influencing this behaviour? There may be many people who are not good at clearly distinguishing between reality & fantasy. If playing violent video games prompts those people to act out those fantasies in reality, are not those games a contributing factor in the resulting violence?
Click to expand...
I'm not dismissing it out of hand. I'm comparing the "report" to what we know about Breivik and his motivations. The report directly implied that Breivik went on the shooting spree because he played violent video games, and that he even got some of his ideas from them. They got their cause and effect relationship wrong: Breivik planned the massacre and used the games to train himself, but the report suggested he played the games and developed his ideas from them.

I'm not denying that the game played its part, but the report tried to pin responsibility on them because of an underlying agenda. This is in line with new legislation here in Australia that will see an adults-only rating attached to games. It doesn't take a genius to see what the report was trying to do by connecting Breivik's atrocity to a game "popular with fifteen year olds" while showing footage of the infamous "No Russian" stage of MODERN WARFARE 2 cut with an out-of-context quote from the game (in fact, I'm not convinced it's even from the same game) about how one man's will is all it takes to change the world forever.

Violent video games played their part in the massacre, but as far as potential causes or motivations, it's a long way down the list.
 
I'm not dismissing it out of hand. I'm comparing the "report" to what we know about Breivik and his motivations. The report directly implied that Breivik went on the shooting spree because he played violent video games, and that he even got some of his ideas from them. They got their cause and effect relationship wrong: Breivik planned the massacre and used the games to train himself, but the report suggested he played the games and developed his ideas from them.

I'm not denying that the game played its part, but the report tried to pin responsibility on them because of an underlying agenda. This is in line with new legislation here in Australia that will see an adults-only rating attached to games. It doesn't take a genius to see what the report was trying to do by connecting Breivik's atrocity to a game "popular with fifteen year olds" while showing footage of the infamous "No Russian" stage of MODERN WARFARE 2 cut with an out-of-context quote from the game (in fact, I'm not convinced it's even from the same game) about how one man's will is all it takes to change the world forever.

Violent video games played their part in the massacre, but as far as potential causes or motivations, it's a long way down the list.
Click to expand...

Given the almost incomprehensible cruelty of the actions of Breivik it is understandable that people might cast about for some way to explain the inexplicable.

I don't see violent video games as being likely to be a significant factor in this case, but in the wake of an event of such magnitude it certainly seems a fair question to ask.
 
mr_geez
Police arrived (according to reports I saw) 90 (ninety!!) minutes after shooting has started.And he wasn't really arrested after massive police action, he just surrendered when he saw law enforcement troops finally showing up. Until then he was happily walking around island killing innocent people (even going as far as "making sure" he was successful in his actions).
Click to expand...

Probably because he couldn't get prepared with any of the equipments to help him escape immediately from the scene... He had no means but surrender to police when he was detected walking along the river.
 
Biggles
in the wake of an event of such magnitude it certainly seems a fair question to ask.
Click to expand...
But this wasn't a case of asking. The reporter made a direct connection between the game and the massacre, clearly stating that he got his ideas about how Europe was being colonised by Islam and that it was destroying Western values from the game, which contains no such content.
 
interludes
I'm not dismissing it out of hand. I'm comparing the "report" to what we know about Breivik and his motivations. The report directly implied that Breivik went on the shooting spree because he played violent video games, and that he even got some of his ideas from them. They got their cause and effect relationship wrong: Breivik planned the massacre and used the games to train himself, but the report suggested he played the games and developed his ideas from them.

I'm not denying that the game played its part, but the report tried to pin responsibility on them because of an underlying agenda. This is in line with new legislation here in Australia that will see an adults-only rating attached to games. It doesn't take a genius to see what the report was trying to do by connecting Breivik's atrocity to a game "popular with fifteen year olds" while showing footage of the infamous "No Russian" stage of MODERN WARFARE 2 cut with an out-of-context quote from the game (in fact, I'm not convinced it's even from the same game) about how one man's will is all it takes to change the world forever.

Violent video games played their part in the massacre, but as far as potential causes or motivations, it's a long way down the list.
Click to expand...

As you say, played a part, to add to that violent video games make violent people violent, it doesn't turn normal people in to a violent psychopath.

I've always hated the violent video games argument you see in some (massively biased) reports after incidents like this.

This massacre in Oslo was a horrific event caused by a nutter, but the root cause of an nationalist/extremist going into a horrific and deadly rage is way way deeper than the games he played. For all the time Nationalism is deemed acceptable and failed to be dealt with we will continue to get these events.

It'd be like saying someone who read a lot of Shakespeare and committed suicide, did so because of the vast amount of suicide in his plays. Clutching at straws would be a kind description of it.
 
I haven't looked at the manifesto but according to this article I read the morning this is all that is mentioned about video games in the 1500+ pages.

http://techland.time.com/2011/07/26...ideo-games-but-video-games-dont-make-killers/

Present a ”credible project/alibi” to your friends, co-workers and family. Announce to your closest friends, co-workers and family that you are pursuing a ”project” that can at least partly justify your ”new pattern of activities” (isolation/travel) while in the planning phase.
[For] example, tell them that you have started to play World of Warcraft or any other online MMO game and that you wish to focus on this for the next months/year. This ”new project” can justify isolation and people will understand somewhat why you are not answering your phone over long periods. Tell them that you are completely hooked on the game (raiding dungeons etc). Emphasise to them that this is a dream you have had since you were a kid. If they stress you, insist and ask them to respect your decision. You will be amazed on how much you can do undetected while blaming this game. If your planning requires you to travel, say that you are visiting one of your WoW friends, or better yet, a girl from your ”guild” (who lives in another country). No further questions will be raised if you present these arguments.

Target practise is likely going to be a problem for many people in certain countries (urban Europeans like us, ouch: ). Consider taking a vacation to a country where you are able to train in marksmanship or join a gun club. Simulation by playing Call of Duty, Modern Warfare is a good alternative as well but you should try to get some practise with a real assault rifle (with red point optic) if possible.
Click to expand...
So basically he says WoW is an alibi for being antisocial and CoD is a way to get some sort of weapon experience. I can't say I agree with the CoD bit since I can say for a fact that holding a controller and sprinting around with a Spas-12 in MW2 and holding my friends fathers pump action shotgun are two completely different things. Of course there is one brief mention of video games and the media has their field day with it. :indiff:
 
It's interesting to see that Norway has a progressive prison policy. Here is an piece which describes where the killer may end up. And it works.
Anders Behring Breivik could be jailed in one of the world's most progressive prisons, where inmates enjoys cells equipped with flat screen televisions, minifridges and designer-style furniture.
Halden Fengsel prison was opened last by King Harald V and is home to some of Norway's most hardened criminals, including murderers and rapists.

The jail is spread over 75 acres of woodland just outside Oslo and facilities include a sound studio, jogging trails and a two-bedroom house separate from the main facility where convicts can stay with their families during overnight visits.

Guards move around the prison unarmed and often play sports or eat meals with the men they are tasked with watching. Half of the prison staff are women, a policy based on research which shows a female presence induces a less aggressive atmosphere.

In a far cry from the brutalist set up of British or American prisons, there is even a "kitchen laboratory" where inmates can take specialist cooking courses.

Speaking at the opening of the jail last year, governor Are Hoidal said: "In the Norwegian prison system, there's a focus on human rights and respect.

"We want to build them up, give them confidence through education and work and have them leave as better people."

There is some evidence that the Norwegian approach to prison works, with only around 20 per cent of offenders ending up back behind bars within two years of release, compared to around half of British convicts.

Yesterday, a judge ordered Breivik to be remanded in custody until the end of September as prosecutors prepare the case against him.

Judge Kim Heger said the gunman had warned of "two more cells" prepared to carry out further attacks and said he would be held while police investigate the claim.

Breivik will be held in solitary confinement until August 22, and will not be allowed visitors or letters for the entirety of his remand period.

The self-confessed killer has also been banned from reading newspapers or watching broadcast news.


Shows how more evolved ahead of us Norway is compared to America or even UK.

halden_fengsel.jpg

halden-fengsel-prison.jpg

Halden-Luxury-Prison-Norway-029.JPG


Other countries should aspire to this.
 

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