2010 Korean Grand Prix
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
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- Ardius_
I didn't realise applying the brakes locked them up 
. Applying the brakes with maximum force or in low grip conditions might lock them up on the other hand.
But considering he could have applied them during the first impact and steered to his left to keep it on the right hand side of the track....I don't think he would have locked up (and it wouldn't have mattered as he was going backwards away from the track in this scenario).
If the scenario was he couldn't steer to keep it on the right hand side, then braking to stop the car in the middle of the track may not have been advisable either, though it would have been more predictable to Rosberg.
. Applying the brakes with maximum force or in low grip conditions might lock them up on the other hand.But considering he could have applied them during the first impact and steered to his left to keep it on the right hand side of the track....I don't think he would have locked up (and it wouldn't have mattered as he was going backwards away from the track in this scenario).
If the scenario was he couldn't steer to keep it on the right hand side, then braking to stop the car in the middle of the track may not have been advisable either, though it would have been more predictable to Rosberg.
- 24,647
- Anoka, MN
Watch this video(mainly the onboard footage), you will see that he wasn't touching the steering wheel(proper racing protocol when you know impact is imminent so you don't break your wrists) when it turned extreme right, he tried to get control again but it was to late.
What does that have to do with anything?
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- Ardius_
I hadn't seen the onboard properly. 👍
Now I've seen that I don't think Webber intended to cause the accident with Rosberg at all. He let go of the steering wheel to avoid injury to his hands/wrists/arms and the steering wheel hence jerked from the impact into a position of steering back onto the track. At which point Webber has no chance to stop it without becoming stationary in the middle of the racing line. From the outboard cameras, it looked like Webber had some time to slow the car down and steer it more, but the onboard shows he had no time at all, merely the seconds that the car was rubbing against the right-hand wall were when his hands were off the steering wheel and the wheel was jerking around wildly.
Berger either needs to study the incident closer or needs to shut the hell up. He's normally more intelligent than this so I suspect his Red Bull connections or loaded media questions are to blame. 👎
Now I've seen that I don't think Webber intended to cause the accident with Rosberg at all. He let go of the steering wheel to avoid injury to his hands/wrists/arms and the steering wheel hence jerked from the impact into a position of steering back onto the track. At which point Webber has no chance to stop it without becoming stationary in the middle of the racing line. From the outboard cameras, it looked like Webber had some time to slow the car down and steer it more, but the onboard shows he had no time at all, merely the seconds that the car was rubbing against the right-hand wall were when his hands were off the steering wheel and the wheel was jerking around wildly.
Berger either needs to study the incident closer or needs to shut the hell up. He's normally more intelligent than this so I suspect his Red Bull connections or loaded media questions are to blame. 👎
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Not a big Webber fan but I don't think you can blame him for anything the car does after the impact. Youre pretty much a passenger after that even if you have a little bit of control of the car. When you are racing for a win and something like that happens the instant disappointment from losing it and crashing at that magnitude I think would be just to put your hands up to your chest, give it up and just go along for the ride as the car slides to a stop knowing its not going anywhere after that. Maybe if he knew he could still bring the car back to the pits he would have tried to do more. :-(
Anes
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I didn't realise applying the brakes locked them up
But considering he could have applied them during the first impact and steered to his left to keep it on the right hand side of the track....I don't think he would have locked up (and it wouldn't have mattered as he was going backwards away from the track in this scenario).
Not sure if you know this, but there's only some master cylinders in front of the drivers feet in an open wheeler as opposed to the back which holds the engine, radiator and water plus the bulk driver mass. If you are going backwards there is almost no weight on the front wheels (which divide their stopping grip by cornering grip) because almost all the weight of the car is mainly at the 'new front' of the car now while the brake bias is still 60 40. Your driving tips are wrong. You don't use the brakes to 'control the car' when it's reversing down the track at 100km/h particularly in an open wheeler.
The Outlaw
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The thing is (and as Gerhard said) it doesn't seems as if Webber made any attempt whatsoever to get the car slowed down after he hit the wall and began rolling back onto the racing line (intiution at this level should tell you to avoid that), fully aware that a car was coming his way (Nico was clearly trying to stay to the inside as soon as Mark hit the wall. Don't know how Mark couldn't have seen that being that he was looking over pretty much as soon as he hit the wall). To me this is the bit of a red light. If Webber's car had began decelerating at a slightly slower rate after hitting the wall Nico could have likely squeezed through, but Mark's car just came across at a too quick and constant rate of speed due to the lack of deceleration or attempt to stop (that I'm aware of) his car, which resulted in the collision of course.
Again, I'm not saying for a fact Webber had bad intentions here, I just feel that there is the possibility that there was, given the way in which Webber reacted after hitting the wall. Still it's a bit of a bold accusation by Gerhard to say in the media, but hey I find it funny when the old guys stir the pot (as long as they're not being hypocritical, two-faces)
People can take their side on the incident and that's that.
Trying to put ANY blame on Rosberg (for failing basic racecraft) is not right or realistic IMO, as he had absolutely no idea as to how Webber or his car was going to react after hitting the wall.
Again, I'm not saying for a fact Webber had bad intentions here, I just feel that there is the possibility that there was, given the way in which Webber reacted after hitting the wall. Still it's a bit of a bold accusation by Gerhard to say in the media, but hey I find it funny when the old guys stir the pot (as long as they're not being hypocritical, two-faces)
People can take their side on the incident and that's that.Trying to put ANY blame on Rosberg (for failing basic racecraft) is not right or realistic IMO, as he had absolutely no idea as to how Webber or his car was going to react after hitting the wall.
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- 24,647
- Anoka, MN
I still fail to see what that has to do with anything. Unless of course there is suddenly a rule that says you must cheer for your countrymen and only them.
You also never said anything that would lead me to believe you didn't still feel that Webber somehow intentionally took someone out. Once again, I'm not a mind reader.
GTPlanet - derpin and herpin lets argue for the sake of it
You know, for someone that seemingly doesn't like this forum much, you are still posting. This is an opinions forum, what good is it if we all agreed, this place would be dead.
MarkWebber
(Banned)
- 668
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The net reult that Webber is now trailing by 11 points was not the worst possible reult for Webber at Korea. Considering RB won the last 2 races of last season I think Mark can be reasonably confident of outperforming Alonso in this seasons last 2 races, I hope Alonso makes RB's life a bit easier by having a failure in one or both of the last 2 races. Alonso's immediate reaction over the radio after his victory by default in Korea, makes me think he is an idiot, laughing histerically at RB's misfortunes, and shouting out a non-english word, quite discraceful.
Anyway's, probably a pointless post but though I might drop in and unload my thoughts on his chances, I hope the 2 Mclarens also come good again, or even Kubica, which would indierctly help out RB.
I can feel confident though, especially with Vettel next To Mark, that at least one of them will do it
Anyway's, probably a pointless post but though I might drop in and unload my thoughts on his chances, I hope the 2 Mclarens also come good again, or even Kubica, which would indierctly help out RB.
I can feel confident though, especially with Vettel next To Mark, that at least one of them will do it
The Outlaw
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It was about as bad he could have expected though. The only worse result would have been if his teammate (who was equal w/Alonso going into the race) had managed to finish the race in first - thus giving Vettel the lead in the DC and favoritism within the team.
Alonso will be lacking no confidence either (if that really is some difference maker to you) - not to mention this year is completely different than last year in terms of competition. Ferrari will be very strong in the remaining races (Bridgestone will also be using the tire compounds the F10 likes), especially @ Abu Dhabi as will Mclaren - we saw Hamilton absolutely crush the RB's and the rest of the field in qualy last year.
I'm curious as to what exactly he said (and hell I would be laughing hysterically at RB's misfortunes as well if it meant my title hopes were that much better - so were basically the entire Mclaren pit crew
). Also, he can't be that big of any idiot - maybe selfish, but NO idiot by any stretch of the imagination given his success and vast wealth. With that said, I wish I had a peice of his pie 
It's funny how much hate and jealousy FA draws at times - one can only laugh (especially when you call him an idiot ). Good thing his mentality is made of iron and doesn't let the nonsense get to him.Nothing is guaranteed, if the Macca's or Kubica become good they could very well be a big threat to RB's Championship hopes. The ball can roll either way in this case. Once again, RB are far from clear favorites for the last two races (especially with the often unpredictable weather at Brazil, as Vettel found out last year).
"Especially with Vettel next to Mark"?... what does that mean? You mean they will take eachother out?
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- 5,196
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- CHVRCHES_GTP
If you look at the front right wheel of Mark's car, you can see it's actually not touching the ground and I think that's the reason why the car steered to the very left part of the circuit. Though I think if he brake hard, he might turn the car around 180 degree and save it but no gurantee if it's going to happen... It's a matter of 3 seconds. I wouldn't blame Webber for steering the car into the racing line and I'm not putting blame either on Rosberg for failing to see where he's going...
50/50
EDIT:
I think Gerhard's statement was somewhat idiotic... If he really investigate and study the crash thoroughly, he wouldn't say Webbber was trying to take out his Championship rival. Trying to take Alonso out, not going to happen it seems, taking Hamilton out, he's too far away behind, instead taking Rosberg who's 98 points behind him is nonsense. It absolutely doesn't make sense in that situation but then he's really in trouble with those words.
50/50
EDIT:
I think Gerhard's statement was somewhat idiotic... If he really investigate and study the crash thoroughly, he wouldn't say Webbber was trying to take out his Championship rival. Trying to take Alonso out, not going to happen it seems, taking Hamilton out, he's too far away behind, instead taking Rosberg who's 98 points behind him is nonsense. It absolutely doesn't make sense in that situation but then he's really in trouble with those words.
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"Especially with Vettel next to Mark"?... what does that mean? You mean they will take eachother out?
👍👍👍
My thoughts exactly!The Outlaw
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I'm afraid it's not that simple. At that point Webber likely didn't know exactly who was coming torward him, except for possibly a title contender (as 3 of them were behind him prior to accident). You act as if he had time to spot out (in that type of weather) who exactly was coming torward him and to either get out of the way at that point. If he did have the bad intentions, he was pretty much commited as soon as he looked over his shoulder and began rolling back. Also, taking out the car coming his way (who happened to be Rosberg) also had the potential to create a pile up which would take out a few other contenders in the WDC & WCC race as well. Basically all I'm saying is that your statement does absolutely nothing to disprove Gerhards accusations (which also don't have any valid proof).
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Wow. What an ignorant statement. 👎
First, I'm 99.9999999999999999999% sure Alonso was laughing because he was happy about winning and taking the lead in the championship. Is it not okay for a driver to be happy after winning a race?
Second, it wasn't Fernando who shouted the Italian phrase. If you listen to the radio conversation, there's no engine noise when that phrase is said, which means it must've been someone from the pit wall. But I guess since you don't understand it, it must... somehow, it must be bad.
FYI it was "Avanti Fer! AVANTI!". Avanti means to go forward or advance. And Fer is short for Fernando. Roughly translated it's like saying to someone, "full speed ahead".
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I didn't thought of that
I didn't mean or act like he knew or managed to spot who exactly was coming on his way and had time to react to take out who but by looking at that situation, it doesn't seem likely going to happen to Alonso except for a pile up as you said especially for Hamilton and Button. Owkey I understand anything can happen there, in that 3 seconds.. It's all in his mind, and we have no idea. Only God knows...
Afterall, Gerhard shouldn't say that especially to the media because he's not God to know what was on Webber's mind or his real intentions... He, making such statement is just going to give him hard times and makes him look st***d.
- 1,258
- Antti-san
- Antti San88
Ditto. Calling Webber a 2nd rate driver is one thing, but claiming that he intentionally wanted to cause a collision is taking it too far. 👎
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- Central Coast,
Thanks to username Justin for providing this video
This video provides a good insight to Webber's crash.
My interpertation follows:
starting from the onboard footage, when he applys too much throttle on the astroturf, the slide/spin is inevitable. There are two choices here each with it own set of consequences.
1. Try catch the slide (something the drivers are always doing, especially in HRT's. Watch some other onboard footage of cars at both ends of the grid, and concerntrate on the steering wheel for more reference).
2. Let it turn into a spin on the outside of the corner (and perhaps onto the racing line, causing untold damage. even if it stays outside of the track, Mark would loose position to Alonso, Rosberg, and probably Hamilton.)
99 times out of 100, your going to try to catch the slide and save postion and time . And that remaining time is when you aren't concerntrating, which is a cardinal sin for any F1 driver. Also, considering that the next turn is only metres away from where Mark was, he could have wound up spinning onto the racing line anyway,
Please, before ripping into my interpretation, watch the footage closely a number of times, and think about the sequence of events
This video provides a good insight to Webber's crash.
My interpertation follows:
starting from the onboard footage, when he applys too much throttle on the astroturf, the slide/spin is inevitable. There are two choices here each with it own set of consequences.
1. Try catch the slide (something the drivers are always doing, especially in HRT's
. Watch some other onboard footage of cars at both ends of the grid, and concerntrate on the steering wheel for more reference).2. Let it turn into a spin on the outside of the corner (and perhaps onto the racing line, causing untold damage. even if it stays outside of the track, Mark would loose position to Alonso, Rosberg, and probably Hamilton.)
99 times out of 100, your going to try to catch the slide and save postion and time . And that remaining time is when you aren't concerntrating, which is a cardinal sin for any F1 driver. Also, considering that the next turn is only metres away from where Mark was, he could have wound up spinning onto the racing line anyway,
Please, before ripping into my interpretation, watch the footage closely a number of times, and think about the sequence of events
Robin
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Does anyone think that Webber's car could have still been driveable after the first impact if he hadnt then collided with Nico?
I can't decide because although it looks quite a shunt because it happened more or less parallel with the wall the suspension may have survived (spread the impact).
Robin.
I can't decide because although it looks quite a shunt because it happened more or less parallel with the wall the suspension may have survived (spread the impact).
Robin.
- 3,676
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- cowabungacorey
I think he could've made it back to the pits for repair, yes.
I really hope the Brasil thread won't consist of any of this driver vs driver nonsense.
I really hope the Brasil thread won't consist of any of this driver vs driver nonsense.
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This probably says more about your mindset than anything else. To everyone else it's pretty clear that he is happy for his win and not for RBR's misfortune.
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- Ardius_
It is right and realistic to an extent, he could have avoided direct collision with Webber if he decided to go right (towards the accident) rather than left. This is basic racecraft, you always head towards a car that is coming across the track as obviously by the time you are there, its moved, whereas trying to predict where its going and out-race it around the track is dangerous.
I did however admit that its easy to make the mistake of trying to race the accident and I don't actually blame Rosberg for it. Also, there was debris to the right hand side of the track and in the split seconds Rosberg had to react, he couldn't know if half of Mark's car was there or not.
- 24,128
- Scarfolk
- Grim10
- Are you kidding?
Not only are you biased and wrong, you contradict yourself.
Alonso can't celebrate a win off the back of RBR's misfortune (as you seem to think he's doing), but you hope Alonso suffers misfortune to help RBR win the title?
Your resentment is delicious.
MarkWebber
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Ferrari a dirty cheats, Alonso is a great driver, but he doesn't deserve to win the title, it's the first time I have ever, EVER, heard a driver laugh after winning, Webber doesn't laugh, Vettel doesn't laugh, Hamilton doesn't laugh, Button doesn't laugh, Kubica doesn't laugh, that's just naming the most recent driver's who have won
And I am fairly certain that Alonso didn't laugh at his other 3 victories this year. What other famous sportsman/woman LAUGHS when they beat an opponent, Roger Federer doesn't, Tiger Woods doesn't. He has lost what ever respect I have had for him, If you're going to be bad at something, poor looser's are far better than poor, disrespectful winner's. A victory by default is NOT a very satisfying victory, but because Alonso was SO happy that the RB's both crashed, and he won, he could not control himself, that's what it all boils down to.
Yes Ferrari are Italian dominant, but the BBC coverage is broadcast every were in the world, at least use a universal language, English, so the majority of people can understand whatever the hell he said. Again very disrespectful.
Ferrari, are dirty rotten, filthy low-life, conniving, manipulating, un-sportsman like, scum of the Earth, CHEATS! Why the hell are you people defending a driver (I don't give a flying cactus branch If he didn't have a say in the illegal overtaking of Massa) from a team full of cheats. It's quite unfathomable and very contradicting, as I am sure all of you that negatively commented on my post have voiced your disgust at Ferrari somewhere here in this forum during the season, otherwise you're not a true fan of F1.
I sincerely hope Alonso has a nasty (non-life threatening) crash, preferably not his fault, just so it stings that little bit more, and looses by like a couple of points, and I hope the man that beats him is Mark, but Vettel will do just fine, they both deserve it equally IMO.
From Daniel.
And I am fairly certain that Alonso didn't laugh at his other 3 victories this year. What other famous sportsman/woman LAUGHS when they beat an opponent, Roger Federer doesn't, Tiger Woods doesn't. He has lost what ever respect I have had for him, If you're going to be bad at something, poor looser's are far better than poor, disrespectful winner's. A victory by default is NOT a very satisfying victory, but because Alonso was SO happy that the RB's both crashed, and he won, he could not control himself, that's what it all boils down to.
Yes Ferrari are Italian dominant, but the BBC coverage is broadcast every were in the world, at least use a universal language, English, so the majority of people can understand whatever the hell he said. Again very disrespectful.
Ferrari, are dirty rotten, filthy low-life, conniving, manipulating, un-sportsman like, scum of the Earth, CHEATS! Why the hell are you people defending a driver (I don't give a flying cactus branch If he didn't have a say in the illegal overtaking of Massa) from a team full of cheats. It's quite unfathomable and very contradicting, as I am sure all of you that negatively commented on my post have voiced your disgust at Ferrari somewhere here in this forum during the season, otherwise you're not a true fan of F1.
I sincerely hope Alonso has a nasty (non-life threatening) crash, preferably not his fault, just so it stings that little bit more, and looses by like a couple of points, and I hope the man that beats him is Mark, but Vettel will do just fine, they both deserve it equally IMO.
From Daniel.
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