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They do. The Dallara DW12 - named for Dan Wheldon, who helped develop it - is a control chassis, but in 2013, companies will be able to develop their own aero kits to put on it.
2012 F1 Mechanics: designs and pieces that will win WDC & WCC
- Thread starter LMSCorvetteGT2
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- HamiltonMP427
Why don't they make a generic design that all teams must use?
I am not a fan of F1, because almost every championship seems to be decided by whoever has the fastest car instead of who is the best driver.
Take for example the V8supercars, last weekend the entire field of around 30 cars were separated by 1 second in qualifying and this is a regular occurrence. 1 second!
F1 is awesome, but the racing is.... Boring. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. NASCAR is a lot more interesting to watch.
If all the cars were similar so that no car had a huge advantage due to some special design then the racing would be a lot more interesting. Just my opinion.......
If you want spec...there is IRL, GP2 and GP3 as well as 3.5 Renault series. Not to be mean, but I really wouldn't take that sentance I bolded all that seriously from a non-f1 fan and I think anyone interested in the sport that reads your post shouldn't believe it either. There are many years where the championship was close and inferior car won with a super talented driver.
1 second is a bit big of a gap to be honest, maybe 3 tenths of a second I would gasp with you but...1 second isn't something to jump up and down about. Considering that the top six cars are usually with in tenths of one another.
I'm also a nascar fan as well and long time just like F1 (a bit longer) and I remember exciting and boring season from it, as do I for V8 Supercar. Every series has boring years and great years no series is different from the other.
Also how can you call nascar interesting when for the last five years the same driver has won the championship? If you could give actual reasons to F1 being boring that could help...
Lastly just like LMP cars, F1 is one of the few sports where the driver isn't the center piece of attention but the car they drive is as well. Most other racing series can't say that because every car is the same just different sponsors and your favorite driver behind the wheel. F1 and LMS(LMP category) go out and build cars that become faster due to innovation which has been seen to trickle down into other motorsports and real life as well.
Why will 2013 be major? I think you mean 2014
hampus_dh
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Touché my mind is still stuck on the old time schedule.
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- HamiltonMP427
Though I'd just update this thread; HRT will be using Williams KERS systems in 2012.
Seismica
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hampus_dh
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Should put them in contention for the Constructor's title 👍
I like all the teams to a certain level and only hope the best for the team that beats out Virgin (Marussia) from time to time. HRT getting further up the grid in a race would be a nice change of pace, it was also make the midpack next season alot more unpredictable and great to watch. I also think with Caterahm (sp?) with all RBR internal under the car (for the most part) next year should make them better, hopefully the car design will be there.
Yup F1 Fanatic here
Yes a wonderful site that should help us have much to talk about here, as well as Autosport and ScarbsF1
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It's not really a technical regulation, but ... Luca is holding Formula 1 hostage (again) demanding changes to the sporting regulations, or else Ferrari may back out of the sport. He wants some (unspecified) changes to the technical regulations, as well as changes to testing rules and the introduction of third cars, and he is refusing to back down over it. Let's be honest here: we all know that if Ferrari were beating McLaren and/or Red Bull, Luca would not be saying this - he'd be saying exactly the opposite.
When Max Mosley and Flavio Briatore were in the sport, Luca always seemed to be the voice of reason. Now that they're gone, he has becoming increasingly unstable.
When Max Mosley and Flavio Briatore were in the sport, Luca always seemed to be the voice of reason. Now that they're gone, he has becoming increasingly unstable.
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I don't mind the old school style of three cars, however, in the spirit of getting with the times the cost for a third car would push small teams out. Maybe Luca should hire some new age engineers and not just the leftovers of a gone era. Thanks for the news PM. unstable like Bernie???
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No doubt that's his intention. Luca has been smarting about the new teams since Karun Chandhok inadvertently blocked Fernando Alonso at Montreal last year - Chandhok went right coming out of Turn 6 to let Alonso through, but Alonso also went right to under cut. It was an honest mistake, but it was enough for Jenson Button to slip by. Ever since then Luca and Ferrari have been very critical of the new teams (since the infamous "Horse Whisperer" blog is essentially their way of saying things they cannot be seen to sy in public). Customer cars is one way to do that, because it means any success the new teams experience can be directly attributed to the team they bought the chassis from.
And that's the problem with customer cars: they create an imbalance in power.
Before 2010, there were only ten teams in the sport, and a handful of engine suppliers. The engines were supplied by the manufacturers, so the more customer teams an engine supplier had the more power they got. Ferrari in particular had a lot they led FOTA, and they supplied two established teams. Mercedes asupplied three, but one of those was Brawn. Renault and Toyota supplied two, while BMW only supplied the one. All of the manufacturers were close.
But then the three new teams arrived in 2010, and they all used Cosworth power. And while Ferrari picked up Sauber as a customer team, both Toyota and BMW withdrew, Renault scaled back their involvement, and Mercedes split with McLaren to focus on their own team. The net result was that Ferrari lost a lot of political power. Where they could use their influence to command half the grid in 2009, they could control, at best, just one-quarter of it in 2010. Ever since then, they have been lobbying to gain more control through customer teams.
The problem with customer cars is that it will give them even more control over the grid. With Cosworth and Renault being external suppliers, the manufacturer power base is thinned out, and the power-sharing between the manufacturers was what kept one of them from getting too much power before 2010. That is now gone, so Ferrari will have an unprecedented amount of power they could command up to half of the grid, because the success of customer teams would be attributed to Ferrari, and they could use that to their advantage. And with the accusations that Red Bull overspent according to the RRA (which could have them stripped of voting powers in FOTA), they would have an almost unlimited ability to control the future of the sport, and they will invariably control it in a way that is good them first and everyone else a distant second.
Thats what Ferrari really wants power.
The Outlaw
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Kind of like what Red Bull has already done 
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Not really. Sure, Toro Rosso and Hispania are running Red Bull development drivers, but Toro Rosso are now considered to be their own team since they're running their own chassis. They own more alleigance to Ferrari than Red Bull because of their engine deal.Kind of like what Red Bull has already done
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- RowdLL
The only point I agree with Montezemolo is that F1 should have less focus on aerodynamics. It expensive to develop and has no/little use on road cars... besides, it only makes close racing more difficult.
I know Ferrari is only complaining because they are behind Red Bull, F1 cars should not be so heavily aero dependant. The good money being invested on F1 should be helping shape the future of road cars, not shaping tiny little pieces of front wings.
I know Ferrari is only complaining because they are behind Red Bull, F1 cars should not be so heavily aero dependant. The good money being invested on F1 should be helping shape the future of road cars, not shaping tiny little pieces of front wings.
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- Skatenj
Yea they should focus more on mechanical grip than grip affected by the wings.
Seismica
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But is there a solution to that problem that doesn't involve making all the significant aero parts on the cars the same?
The aerodynamics of the cars are so highly developed, there is little the FIA can do. They have tried to curb the aero dependancy over the past couple of decades but the designers keep coming up with new ways (Within the regulations) to gain an advantage. They could open up other areas for development (Like loosen up engine regulations, 1989-1994 style) but with the current emphasis on cost reduction that isn't going to happen.
The aerodynamics of the cars are so highly developed, there is little the FIA can do. They have tried to curb the aero dependancy over the past couple of decades but the designers keep coming up with new ways (Within the regulations) to gain an advantage. They could open up other areas for development (Like loosen up engine regulations, 1989-1994 style) but with the current emphasis on cost reduction that isn't going to happen.
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Only if Adrian Newey forgets everything he knows about car design and fills the RB8 with thirty million dollars' worth of ballast. Ferrari's design philosophy is "see what worked for the other teams last year, and put them all together". They don't innovate, because they're too afraid of losing their current position on the grid if the new ideas don't work - so they will always start the season on the back foot.
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I hope engine changes in the coming years (Can't really be bothered to keep track of when it's going to come) will put more dependence on Engine/Drivetrain development. Even a gazillion dollars worth of Adrian Newey can't help you if your engine doesn't work... (2009-Early 2010 anyone?)
It will be true though, that everyone has the same chance of engine failure, and I don't exactly see Renault dropping the ball on engine development. I feel though that Merc engines will have a bit of an advantage when the new regs come out. Same with Cosworth.
If Fezza did what McLaren did this year (Come out with a stupidly radical car) I bet they would be in closer running. but they don't. Every year they promise a better car, but since their last win in '08 (which was overshadowed a bit by Lewis..) they've done no better than 3rd in the WCC.
It will be true though, that everyone has the same chance of engine failure, and I don't exactly see Renault dropping the ball on engine development. I feel though that Merc engines will have a bit of an advantage when the new regs come out. Same with Cosworth.
If Fezza did what McLaren did this year (Come out with a stupidly radical car) I bet they would be in closer running. but they don't. Every year they promise a better car, but since their last win in '08 (which was overshadowed a bit by Lewis..) they've done no better than 3rd in the WCC.
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And even assuming that were possible, I suspect the amount of extra non-aero based grip to be found is small. It's basically pure suspension tuning, and while I'm sure there's new things to be discovered I would be surprised if there was anything on the level of double diffusers or F-ducts waiting in the wings (hah!). Spring and damper systems are much more well understood than turbulent fluid flow is.
I think what I'm trying to say is that removing the aero probably wouldn't shift the development of grip elsewhere, it would likely kill it outright and turn F1 into a straight power battle.
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Well a few issues come to mind. First I wouldn't fully say it's the FIAs fault for curving aero design, too many times we see teams complain themselves about such and such having an aero advantage. If teams lived with the fact that some are more innovative than others a ban on new aero parts wouldn't happen every year. I can understand if small teams are upset, but regular mid-field teams are a different story and some of the higher end teams as well.
Engine regs should be less strict as well, you can't have tight aero regs and tight mechanical regs and still expect innovation. There has to be give and take, you can't just take alot and expect the same amount in return. However, that at times seems to be what is going on. They want the cars to be fast, economical and more friendly to the enviornment...but they wont add ground effects or at least be less strict on aero packages from year to year.
I would say in the current state there really isn't a solution and maybe more teams will do what McLaren and Merc-GP are doing and look at old designs and make them modern.
EDIT
This isn't a thread where you make vague opinions, it's about the ideas and understanding of technical design for next year.
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- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
Time to get defensive.
Ferrari said already that they took a very conservative approach with this year's car design. That shows, as this year's design looks awfully similar to the previous design. As soon as the season began, Ferrari realized that they wouldn't be in the running this year. As soon as they realized, they shifted their focus to the 2012 design. That puts them in a good position in terms of car design. Not only that, they've said several times that they are taking a much more aggressive approach with the 2012 car. And with the talent and resources in that team, plus the potential early lead they have. I think they are set good for 2012.
Call it all whatever you want, but your opinion is going to be biased against them because of your blinding hate for Ferrari. I know i'm not an employee within the team, nor do I have ex clusive insight into the team or the world of Formula 1, because i'm not Joe Saward. But then again, neither are you.
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This is never a good way to start your posts.
I think you'll fnd they said something similar at the start of 2011, too. And by your own admission:
And yours is obscured by your unconditional support for them.
Thank God for that. I would not call what Joe Saward has "exclusive insight into the team" considering that this year he has 1) predicted four team sales, of which none have come true; 2) insisted that two of those sales are still on, despite denials from the teams in question (Renault and Toro Rosso); 3a) accused Vijay Mallya of "lying" about the sale of his team when Mallya only got a new business partner in the Sahara Group; 3b) let his personal dislike of Mallya for dropping Lizzi get in the way of his profession; and finally, 4) threatened to take his blog offline when people started criticising him for the Mallya episode, as if his readers would hang onto his every word because he is the foremost journalist in Formula 1, and going offline would silence his critics.
Saward is a hack who somehow managed to find an audience.
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