2012 F1 Mechanics: designs and pieces that will win WDC & WCC

[hampus_dh]

Only if Adrian Newey forgets everything he knows about car design and fills the RB8 with thirty million dollars' worth of ballast. Ferrari's design philosophy is "see what worked for the other teams last year, and put them all together". They don't innovate, because they're too afraid of losing their current position on the grid if the new ideas don't work - so they will always start the season on the back foot.

Not really. Ferrari knows how to build quick cars and they know how to win.
The problem is when guys like Newey show up. They are very special people that think out of the box.

Just look at what happened at Silverstone when the EBD was banned. Ferrari dominated the race. RBR or Vettel had absolutely no chance in hell to catch up when the Ferrari got the temps up.

"see what worked for the other teams last year, and put them all together"

Every team on the grid does this. They evaluate all the cars, from the front runners to back markers for inspiration or look at what different types of solutions the other teams have.
RBR has been copied alot this year no doubt about that but it´s definitely not only Ferrari that have copied them. Almost all teams run "RBR-front wings" now.
Or atleast share the same philosophy.

RBR copied Ferrari with the wider front wing pillars for example.
Another thing that is pretty interesting is that when Ferrari comes up with a brilliant idea, all the teams start to complain about the costs and eventually the part will get banned.
But when Williams, Brawn find a loophole to create bigger diffusers then it´s all ok.

I don´t know if you remember but Ferrari introduced a nose cone that had a hole in it. It was banned after the race/ or races despite being perfectly, 100% legal.
Ferrari was also very innovative in the wheel rims, they were the only one that thought out of the box and had aero pieces stuck on the rim itself.
Nobody could copy them because the rims had to be homologated before the season started.
What happened the year after? wheel rims did not have to be homologated..

Basically all teams copy each other and study each other in detail.
It just so happens that Newey probably created a design that you arguably could call "Perfection"
Thus everyone else wants a piece of the cake.

 

[Ardius]

I think you're missing the point - in that Williams has been handicapped this year (in terms of the development & effectiveness of their EBD) by using the Cosworth package. Once again, being that the EBD will be banned next year and Williams will be moving to the more reliable/developed Renault powerplant...I think they have a bit of hope for more success next year (which is all I've said from the beggining.

No, the point is that people are talking about next year and Williams changing to a Renault engine next year. I acknowledged that the blown diffusers were an issue for Cosworth but made the point that it isn't a problem for next year.
This is the same as people talking about Lotus switching from Cosworth to Renault between 2010 and 2011 - its almost irrelevant to the performance of the team and car. What we should be focusing on is the team's ability to sort the aerodynamics and the rest of the car. The choice of engine for 2012 appears to be pretty irrelevant, and if it does make a difference there is no reason to assume Renault is always going to be particularly better than any other engine to the point of putting Williams much further ahead on performance without improving the rest of the car.

The same applies to Caterham and also HRT with their new KERS deals. The KERS can help but it can also hinder. I don't see any of these deals as particularly good or bad, perhaps only good in the sense that the teams are attempting to improve though obviously KERS is an inevitable necessity.

 

[The Outlaw]

No, the point is that people are talking about next year and Williams changing to a Renault engine next year. I acknowledged that the blown diffusers were an issue for Cosworth but made the point that it isn't a problem for next year.
This is the same as people talking about Lotus switching from Cosworth to Renault between 2010 and 2011 - its almost irrelevant to the performance of the team and car. What we should be focusing on is the team's ability to sort the aerodynamics and the rest of the car.

"People are talking about next year and Williams changing to a Renault engine." I simply brought this up, I don't see what the issue is Cosworth has shown worse reliability than the Renault this season, thus it's easy to reason that switching to the Renault powerplant would only be a positive for them next year (I never said to what degree...Instead you decided to assume exactly how much I thought it would benefit them...which has brought us to this rather pointless/redundent discussion).

And I think I've made it quite clear by now that the erradication of the EBD and such mappings will be the main thing that will particularly benefit Williams next year. With that said, it gives hope (as I said in my original statement) that Williams will have a better chance at being able to fight with the mid-pack teams...instead of going into the next season with the same regulations, without Williams having an understanding or fix for their weakness that has plauged them this season (which in good part has been due to the Cosworth package and it's poor use of the EBD mappings).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I found this shot of the FW33 running a "periscope" exhaust at the YDTs:

Though I doubt this will be the actual design Williams use; I suspect they did it to test the effects on downforce rather than an actual solution to the problem.

 

[hampus_dh]

Here are some better pictures, it´s pretty clear where the exhaust gases will be aimed.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Delete

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Also since it doesn't seem to have been said here, STR have a new cheif designer who worked at McLaren prior and was assistant project engineer on the MP4-26

Another new one is John Iley Cheif Aerodynamics head from McLaren now going to Caterham. Here for more

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Click Here to see what the 2012 cars may look like they used a Ferrari rendering for the example. So this is what we might see.

 

[Alex.]

So in short, rubbish.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So in short, rubbish.

Depends really, to me I see a mixture of the 09 car with this years Merc GP car and a Ferrari skin. This is just an idea of what it might look like following said regulations for next year. However, I doubt that most of the cars will look like this, and if Ferrari plan to be radical next year this is not what their car should look like. I also have a feeling that the L shaped side pods are here to stay.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It won't have those ridges on the nose. They're banned.

The 2012 cars will most likely look like this year's McLaren. Especially around the nose.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It won't have those ridges on the nose. They're banned.

The 2012 cars will most likely look like this year's McLaren. Especially around the nose.

Oh okay, well that may be true, I still think that teams will make the cars look different either way and have some innovation. Especially Ferrari and RBR.

 

[Peter.]

I have a feeling Red Bull may end up how Ferrari was after 2004, particularly 2005. With off throttle, hot air, exhaust blown diffusers gone, which was key in the success of the RB7, that may be a big hit to their advantage over the rest of the grid. Yes, Adrian Newey is a mad genius, but with other teams, particularly McLaren, spending a lot of their time developing other parts of the car, they may be in the better position than Red Bull at the moment. Mercedes is another team we may see in the running due to this, as they have spent a lot of their time developing parts such as the front wing, with that innovative F-Duct we've seen being tested.

My money, to be honest, is on McLaren. I think that McLaren had the best car aerodynamically, but were behind Red Bull because of the Mercedes engine being inferior in blowing the air compared to the Renault engine.

 

[Seismica]

I have a feeling Red Bull may end up how Ferrari was after 2004, particularly 2005. With off throttle, hot air, exhaust blown diffusers gone, which was key in the success of the RB7, that may be a big hit to their advantage over the rest of the grid. Yes, Adrian Newey is a mad genius, but with other teams, particularly McLaren, spending a lot of their time developing other parts of the car, they may be in the better position than Red Bull at the moment. Mercedes is another team we may see in the running due to this, as they have spent a lot of their time developing parts such as the front wing, with that innovative F-Duct we've seen being tested.

My money, to be honest, is on McLaren. I think that McLaren had the best car aerodynamically, but were behind Red Bull because of the Mercedes engine being inferior in blowing the air compared to the Renault engine.

It's unwise to underestimate Red Bull. You also musn't forget that Mclaren were the most hurt by the temporary ban on blown diffusers at Silverstone. Red Bull were fine without it, locking out the front row of the grid and finishing with two cars on the podium. For some reason Alonso was mighty that weekend, The Mclarens and Massa didn't stand a chance against the top 3.

If i'd put my money on anyone, it'd be Ferrari and Alonso that take the fight to Vettel next season.

There are talks that Ferrari will have a car this year that looks completely different, I wonder if they're going to copy the Mclaren sidepods?

 

[Centura]

I have a feeling Red Bull may end up how Ferrari was after 2004, particularly 2005. With off throttle, hot air, exhaust blown diffusers gone, which was key in the success of the RB7, that may be a big hit to their advantage over the rest of the grid. Yes, Adrian Newey is a mad genius, but with other teams, particularly McLaren, spending a lot of their time developing other parts of the car, they may be in the better position than Red Bull at the moment. Mercedes is another team we may see in the running due to this, as they have spent a lot of their time developing parts such as the front wing, with that innovative F-Duct we've seen being tested.

My money, to be honest, is on McLaren. I think that McLaren had the best car aerodynamically, but were behind Red Bull because of the Mercedes engine being inferior in blowing the air compared to the Renault engine.

Actually, Red Bull used cold air or whatever you call it. McLaren used hot air.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I have a feeling Red Bull may end up how Ferrari was after 2004, particularly 2005. With off throttle, hot air, exhaust blown diffusers gone, which was key in the success of the RB7, that may be a big hit to their advantage over the rest of the grid. Yes, Adrian Newey is a mad genius, but with other teams, particularly McLaren, spending a lot of their time developing other parts of the car, they may be in the better position than Red Bull at the moment. Mercedes is another team we may see in the running due to this, as they have spent a lot of their time developing parts such as the front wing, with that innovative F-Duct we've seen being tested.

My money, to be honest, is on McLaren. I think that McLaren had the best car aerodynamically, but were behind Red Bull because of the Mercedes engine being inferior in blowing the air compared to the Renault engine.

Too bad McLaren lost important engineers to other teams, I'm a McLaren fan because of the two drivers but I have my doubts about them. I think Brawn will have a great laugh and spoil everyones fun next year. He's a mad genius as well so I wouldn't count him out against Newey.

 

[Sach]

I think Brawn will have a great laugh and spoil everyones fun next year. He's a mad genius as well so I wouldn't count him out against Newey.

Would love to see it happen.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Would love to see it happen.

Geoff Willis, and Costa along with Brawn is a team of engineers to fear, Newey knows this. Willis helped design a few of the winning Newey cars, and worked for Williams with championship car after Newey went to McLaren. Also gave BAR their better years, and helped to create the RB5. Costa and Ferrari doesn't need to be said but I must, he worked with Rory Bryne during the Shumi winning days and designed the 248 F1 and the F2007.

I feel that over the season next year Merc AMG GP will do some great things.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think Brawn will have a great laugh and spoil everyones fun next year. He's a mad genius as well so I wouldn't count him out against Newey.

Ross Brawn isn't designing the F1 W03. In fact, I don't think he has designed a racing car since the Jaguar XJR-14

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ross Brawn isn't designing the F1 W03. In fact, I don't think he has designed a racing car since the Jaguar XJR-14

Never said he was, but since he is in charge he'll still get a good laugh, did you not see me talk about Geoff Willis and Costa? Though supposedly the HRT for next year was designed by Willis.

Also technical director does have responsibility and input on the car so I wouldn't say the XJR-14 was the last car he worked on, designed solely perhaps but he still worked on most of the F1 cars he's been around.

 

[Seismica]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96952

First i've heard of this. I thought the FIA made a clarification in 2010 following accusations pointed towards Red Bull, that any system whether it be passive or driver operated, that modifies the ride height of the car is against the rules?

Upon further reading though, i've just found out that the clarification was in relation to systems used in Parc Ferme. So this device is legal, despite it being a ride height control system? Hats off to Lotus for the innovation, but I thought this type of system was deemed to be illegal, or against the spirit of the rules. It's knocking on the door of active suspension because it's characteristics under braking are being changed by pre-determined amounts.

 

[LewyOs]

As Scarbs has said via Twitter:

"the system is not active, its only reacting to brake torque not directly to brake pressure, so its legal"

 

[Seismica]

As Scarbs has said via Twitter:

"the system is not active, its only reacting to brake torque not directly to brake pressure, so its legal"

It amounts to the same thing really, it is indirectly affected by brake pressure and with some experimenting they will be able to configure as if it was directly affected. It's exploiting a loophole in a similar fashion to Mclaren's F-Duct.

Whilst I may not agree with it, it's a nice little development and it will be interesting to see if it works out for them. Let's just hope the FIA doesn't cave in to the slightest pressure and ban it if Lotus turn out to be as competitive as they were at the start of last year.

 

[LewyOs]

It amounts to the same thing really, it is indirectly affected by brake pressure and with some experimenting they will be able to configure as if it was directly affected.

Such as a system would be deemed illegal.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, Lotus completely blew it. They've been working on the idea since 2010, but two months before they were ready to race it, the whole thing gets leaked and everybody else is already reacting to it:

AUTOSPORT also understands that at least one front-running team has already submitted plans for a similar ride-height adjustment device to be used in 2012.

Whatever advantage the system would have offered the team has been squandered.

 

[Ardius]

How did Lotus blow it? The other teams would have worked it out sooner or later and Lotus would have had to test it at some point. Its something that is presumably quite obvious to spot when the car is on track, at least from the perspective of F1 engineers who employ "spy" photographers and spend some of their time analysing pictures and video of other teams' cars. The car's ride-height changing is something a fair bit more obvious than some of the better kept secrets of the past (such as the McLaren "3rd pedal").

Lotus still have some advantage in that their entire design for their car will be based around it, whereas even if other teams immediately acted after Abu Dhabi, the core 2012 designs will have already been finished. It doesn't sound like something that requires a huge change in design to accomodate but there are always usually problems and compromises which come with fancy designs such as this. Maybe it will be very easy to copy and implement without much change, I guess we won't know.

I don't see how they could have avoided people finding out - it was inevitable from the first test they tried it at. Remember how fast the other teams were at working out the f-duct? There was already rumours and discussion about before we even started the first race in 2010!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How did Lotus blow it? The other teams would have worked it out sooner or later and Lotus would have had to test it at some point.

If you were Lotus, and you spent two years working on the idea, surely you'd want to keep that card as close to your chest for as long as you possibly could? Inevitably, it will come out - but from Lotus' point of view, it would be better for news to break nine days before the first race rather than nine weeks before it. And it appears that the system caught on because the team ran it at the young driver tests. I think that was a mistake; it would have been better to debut it at the first winter tests. I've heard that Ferrari and Marussia (of all people, but they back Robert Wickens and Wickens tested for Renault at the YDT, so he might have some knowledge of the system) already have working systems.

Remember how fast the other teams were at working out the f-duct? There was already rumours and discussion about before we even started the first race in 2010!

That's kind of my point - how long do you think it would take someone like Adrian Newey to see the idea, understand the way it works, adapt his own version of it and get it onto the Red Bull RB8? When double-deck diffusers were introduced in 2009, Newey was able to redesign the RB5 to accomodate a DDD in the space of two months - the diffusers were declared legal in Australia, and Red Bull had one at Monaco without losing a shred of speed, which is no mean feat considering that the entire car is built around the diffuser and Newey had to reconfigure the entire rear suspension assembly and gearbox to accomodate it.

 

[Ardius]

^Which makes it all a moot point then doesn't it? Which appears to be what Lotus also think considering they didn't do what you suggest and instead attempted to test the system much earlier on a car they were no longer developing.

Clearly they felt it was something that needed proper testing before they stuck it on a car they didn't understand yet - the benefit of testing it on a car they have used for a season is that they know how the rest of the car already works and its performance. So comparing the benefits of this new system is presumably much easier than with an entirely brand new car which may or may not have flaws which make it unclear whether the system is a benefit or not.

 

[hawkeye122]

This Lotus/Suspension thing makes me happy. I love seeing innovation, something I think motorsport is a little low on now-a-days. To see loopholes in the rules being taken advantage of, and its just... I love this stuff.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Indeed, It's good to see at least 1 technical must-have innovation race per year.
I think the other teams aren't too worried about getting their version to the first race, they'll develop it, and maybe have it for the 3rd or 4th race, but if it's of no real advantage, they can just learn from another team's mistake and reap the benefit.

This system may actually have a negative affect on the car, although they've tested it and seem happy enough with it to use it for 2012, they'll have to get a unique (compared to what a 'normal' F1 car would run) brake package for at least the front? as I think the fronts would grind/slide more on the tarmac under braking with 'normal' brakes and cause extra degradation. And who knows how it will behave in the wet, and it could be a 5 hour job to uninstall this system so they may have to gamble here and there.

edit: Ferrari set to have their own reactive ride height system on car for first test:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96971