2012 F1 Mechanics: designs and pieces that will win WDC & WCC

[prisonermonkeys]

What exactly did the FIA do to "destroy" LRGP's chances last year?

Nothing. LRGP managed that all on their own. The first step in every decision Eric Boullier made seemed to be "shoot self in foot to make sure gun is loaded".

 

[Blaze_409]

Kubica won Canada because of a fiasco in the pits. I know that because that was the first F1 race I ever watched.

He was good, but look at Massa. Massa was vying for a WDC until he had a crash through no fault of his own. At this point, I think Kubica is a bit of a Liability...

Yeah of course!. Kubica is a big liability. But F1Fan was questioning the Kubic we saw prior to the accident. Kubica, Alonso,Vettel, and Hamilton are the most talented guys. Hamilton needs to get his head together. Kubica needs to stay out of the emergency room.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kubica is a big liability.

I think you mean Kubica is an asset. A liability is something you need to get rid of.

Anyway, this thread is for the discussion of mechanical designs, not driver choices.

 

[niky]

If anyone was handicapped by the rules and rule changes last year, it wasn't Renault. Hell... after their car caught fire for the fiftieth time, you'd think the design would come up for review?

Lotus Renault was one of the teams with the biggest technical innovations last year. It just didn't pan out for them.

I'm sad about the FIA ruling, but c'est la vie. There are more interesting things that have been banned... and it's pretty clear that this is an on-track suspension adjustment, even if it is a reactive rather than active system.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I kinda agree with this, F1 is about constructing cars and every time someone comes up with something innovative (in my opinion) it gets shot down. But like prisonermonkeys said, you'd end up with one team dominating.

No you wouldn't, this notion of one team domination isn't true. Put a cap on the budget but let teams be innovative. You can't ask for cost cutting, but then limit where or how you want the teams to build upon cars. You've got teams like Merc GP and McLaren rehashing ideas from 90s and trying to modernize them because new ways are being shot down left and right. As to you Ardius, if the shark fin and off throttle were banned for the other reason's given then that is complete rubbish. Who cares how the car looks, I think they looked just fine and they also sounded just fine, the F-Duct I'll give you but it was still quite innovative. The double Decker was an loop hole exploit that has been done several times before, and has to be done because of such stringent outlaws every year. If it was a ban every 3-5 years that'd be different, but it's not and the bans seems make the racing some anti-climatic drama for us to eat up. However, most of us would rather see new innovation and racing rather than the drama.

Those devices are innovative in some form or another but the spirit of F1 today isn't about innovation it seems and rather just finding a normal place till the next major regulation change comes about. Explain to me how one team will dominate all others if you cap the budget and let teams do what they want with the best minds out there. If Newey happens the be the smartest guy helping build the cars then that is just too bad for the others. There is always going to be a group of back markers, mid racers and top tier that is how F1 has always been. Let them build new innovation and get on to racing, it looks like the FIA rather kill great ideas for what ever reason they have yet to tell the public.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Put a cap on the budget but let teams be innovative.

And the first place they will be innovative will be in their accounting. If you put in a budget cap of, say $200 million, I guarantee you that Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull will all find ways to spend $250 million by the end of the month - and it will be perfectly legal under the rules.

That's what the row in 2009 was all about. Mosley wanted a budget cap, but the teams didn't want to open up their books to external auditors - even after Mosley abandoned his (stupid) idea of having a second set of rules for teams that observed the voluntary budget cap. They weren't comfortable with throwing open the balance sheets to outsiders, but they were also paranoid that the FIA would find out just how much they were actually spending in a given year, and that the FIA would not be impressed by it.

People have this idea that the FIA is some big, slavering brute that is constantly trying to squash the teams underfoot, kind of like that rabid gorilla that was used in anti-German propaganda. And at the same time, those people seem to think that the teams are like the soldiers raising the flag at Iwo Jima - unified in conquering and repelling the FIA's authoritatian advances. The truth is that while the FIA can be conniving, underhanded, and willing to play dirty when it suits, the teams take all of that and turn it up to eleven.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

And the first place they will be innovative will be in their accounting. If you put in a budget cap of, say $200 million, I guarantee you that Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull will all find ways to spend $250 million by the end of the month - and it will be perfectly legal under the rules.

That's what the row in 2009 was all about. Mosley wanted a budget cap, but the teams didn't want to open up their books to external auditors - even after Mosley abandoned his (stupid) idea of having a second set of rules for teams that observed the voluntary budget cap. They weren't comfortable with throwing open the balance sheets to outsiders, but they were also paranoid that the FIA would find out just how much they were actually spending in a given year, and that the FIA would not be impressed by it.

People have this idea that the FIA is some big, slavering brute that is constantly trying to squash the teams underfoot, kind of like that rabid gorilla that was used in anti-German propaganda. And at the same time, those people seem to think that the teams are like the soldiers raising the flag at Iwo Jima - unified in conquering and repelling the FIA's authoritatian advances. The truth is that while the FIA can be conniving, underhanded, and willing to play dirty when it suits, the teams take all of that and turn it up to eleven.

True, but that is the problem with motorsports on their part and the ACO is no different either. Playing who can be the best devil in the game isn't very awarding to either side though. I'm not saying the teams are not bad, because I've jumped out many times here and on F1 fanatic about teams cheating and doing other disgusting things.

Point is they need to come together, I mean really come together and get things situated. Not have one day where everything is fine and dandy, but the next day "oh yeah we really didn't mean what we said the day before." And this works both ways. I suppose my issue at the moment is with the FIA, but soon one of the teams will turn me against them whether it's my favorite team or not. I just see a decaying realm of innovation and greatness that I think every veteran F1 fan wants to get back to.

EDIT:
Oh and thanks for reminding me about the budget caps, I forgot the issues that came with that.

 

[Seismica]

The simple fact of the matter is, despite the heavy regulations in the sport, there is still a dominant team. Opening up the regulations a little wouldn't change that. What we have now is teams spending millions developing new concepts that are later banned by the FIA.

As Ardius explained, the Lotus front ride height innovation was breaking the rules. However, other innovations seem to have been banned for no logical reason, often at great expense for the teams. Teams are already breaking the RRA (Whilst I have no proof to support this, several teams are rumoured to be doing so; Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes) so the argument that budgets would get out of control holds no water in my opinion; they are already out of control.

Letting the teams invest those great amounts in worthwhile innovations that would have applications in the world outside of F1 is more desirable that having such strict regulations that forces the teams to invest their millions into the most insignificant aerodynamic parts to gain hundredths over a lap.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The simple fact of the matter is, despite the heavy regulations in the sport, there is still a dominant team. Opening up the regulations a little wouldn't change that. What we have now is teams spending millions developing new concepts that are later banned by the FIA.

As Ardius explained, the Lotus front ride height innovation was breaking the rules. However, other innovations seem to have been banned for no logical reason, often at great expense for the teams. Teams are already breaking the RRA (Whilst I have no proof to support this, several teams are rumoured to be doing so; Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes) so the argument that budgets would get out of control holds no water in my opnion; they are already out of control.

Letting the teams invest those great amounts in worthwhile innovations that would have applications in the world outside of F1 is more desirable that having such strict regulations that forces the teams to invest their millions into the most insignificant aerodynamic parts to gain hundredths over a lap.

You have proof, sort of, there were several articles talking about how Merc GP were doing this back in 2010. However, you are right the rest is assumptions. Like how RBR and Ferrari left FOTA because of not wanting to follow the RRA, and Sauber left probably due to Ferrari putting their engine contract at bay which is a move that Ferrari aren't short of doing. We all know why HRT left, they say beacause they had no voice, in reality it was because they couldn't pay the membership fee.

 

[niky]

Gasp... we actually had budget caps in the past two or three years? Really?

 

[Seismica]

Gasp... we actually had budget caps in the past two or three years? Really?

There is no official budget cap, but it was a voluntary cap devised by the members of FOTA. It wasn't that much of a cap however, I think it was somewhere in the region of $300million (Ardius or prisonermonkeys may know the exact figure ) and teams were still abusing it.

 

[F1 fan]

Yes your hugely underating Robert Kubica....

.Kubica was Not the "same man" that lost to .(why do people think that drivers have no ability to change??????????????????)

I know that drivers can change and get better over time. But you have no proof that he would have done much better than Heidfeld. All you have is mere speculation and you believe that you are right. That is not necessarily the case. Perhaps I am underrating Kubica. Perhaps you are over rating him. There is no factual way to prove who is right and who is wrong. And no amount of belief can change this. I rate Kubica highly. But I am realistic. You are on the verge of fantasy. Kubica is very much like Raikkonen. Unbelievably quick on his day. It's just too bad that it isn't "his day" more often.

Kubica is miles above heidfeld ever was....this is the Kubica that won the Canadian gp, pole in bahrain, 7th place on debut, podium in 3rd ever F1 race. Dragged the renault to second place at Monaco.......lotus Renault would have been a lot better off if Kubica had raced with them. Kubica is extremely talented, Alonso even said it himself.....you don't really think nick heidfeld is in he same league as Kubica?? Championship tables do not tell the story and thats pretty lame to bring that up.

As has been said before, Kubica won the race due to being put on a preferable strategy, due to the team ordering Nick to let him through (if he hadn't, Heidfeld would have won) and also due to Lewis, and to a lesser extent, Nico taking themselves and Kimi out in the pitlane. Kubica is a great driver, but when you suddenly think that he is leagues above the driver who beat him the majority of their time as teammates together, without any proof, then you are letting your imagination run away with you. Yes, Kubica is a great driver and is rated very highly, but in Motorsports, the first rule for a driver is that you have to beat your teammate.

Are you simply forgetting that? And I'm aware what Alonso has said. While I agree there is an element of truth to that, Alonso has often been generous with his praise for other drivers.

For example alguersuari beat Buemi in the championship standings but Buemi had way too much bad luck breakdowns etc...

He did. But we aren't talking about either of them now.

Kubica out qualified heidfeld on a regular basis.....

He did. But that doesn't prove anything. Points count. Qualifying position does not.

Yeah of course!. Kubica is a big liability. But F1Fan was questioning the Kubic we saw prior to the accident.

Exactly. What else should I be doing? Should I be questioning Kubica post incident? I don't see what you are getting at here. I am simply trying to see why you are posting your opinion as fact.

If you want to continue this conversation, perhaps we should move it to the Kubica injury update thread.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

"Rumours are Ferrari and McLaren both have the sidepods split from the side impact protection and thus a split floor. This creates a shorter floor and moves downforce rearwards to compensate for the loss of the exhaust-blown diffuser. This is similar to the short floor used by Mercedes W02 in expectation of a lesser EBD effect in 2011, but without the short wheelbase. Clever!”
-ScarbsF1 ©

Also I will put the pictures of the new Caterham F1 car on here Thursday so we all can discuss it. I don't think there needs to be a seperate thread for the F1 car releases.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

"Rumours are Ferrari and McLaren both have the sidepods split from the side impact protection and thus a split floor. This creates a shorter floor and moves downforce rearwards to compensate for the loss of the exhaust-blown diffuser. This is similar to the short floor used by Mercedes W02 in expectation of a lesser EBD effect in 2011, but without the short wheelbase. Clever!”
-ScarbsF1 ©

Supposedly Ferrari's side pod solution will look something like this:

 

[Seismica]

Also I will put the pictures of the new Caterham F1 car on here Thursday so we all can discuss it. I don't think there needs to be a seperate thread for the F1 car releases.

Why not? There was last year. Often each individual thread becomes a team discussion thread for the early races too. There is simply too many talking points to put all 12 cars in this thread.

On the sidepod/crash impact structure development, I feel that teams are once again taking advantage of an inadequate crash test procedure. I feel that without the protection of the sidepods there is greater risk of cockpit intrusion from debris and other solid objects, meaning that safety is being compromised.

 

[F1 fan]

Why not? There was last year. Often each individual thread becomes a team discussion thread for the early races too. There is simply too many talking points to put all 12 cars in this thread.

Exactly. What is it with the small group of users recently that seem to grudge F1 getting more threads than other motorsports?

One thread for 12 cars and potentially hundreds of pictures is a very bad idea. He can post the pictures in here all he wants. The rest of GTP will just stick to the way they've been doing it for years.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Why not? There was last year. Often each individual thread becomes a team discussion thread for the early races too. There is simply too many talking points to put all 12 cars in this thread.

Nah I'm not trying to control it, just saying that since this directly has to do with the cars already it would be easier. I just saw last year that the team threads didn't last long and this is meant to be a thread that will last the entire F1 season to see if the technology put into them really helped win, with the right driver of course.

On the sidepod/crash impact structure development, I feel that teams are once again taking advantage of an inadequate crash test procedure. I feel that without the protection of the sidepods there is greater risk of cockpit intrusion from debris and other solid objects, meaning that safety is being compromised.

Yeah but we should also blame the FIA, there are portions that I think they're too strict and then portion that they should be strict, but aren't. Protection should be strict and if the teams pass the tests, they're not taking advantage really. I mean the FIA should know by now that these guys are professionals at finding loop holes or making it by with the least amount to be fastest on race day.

Exactly. What is it with the small group of users recently that seem to grudge F1 getting more threads than other motorsports?

One thread for 12 cars and potentially hundreds of pictures is a very bad idea. He can post the pictures in here all he wants. The rest of GTP will just stick to the way they've been doing it for years.

Who said I had a grudge against F1?

Also as I explained above that's not what I'm trying to do, just making it easier but okay then.

 

[F1 fan]

Who said I had a grudge against F1?

Also as I explained above that's not what I'm trying to do, just making it easier but okay then.

Not necessarily meaning you. But there have been a group of people here recently that have complained about the amount of threads that F1 gets. Mostly WRC and Motogp fans who are annoyed that their favourite series doesn't get as much attention.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not necessarily meaning you. But there have been a group of people here recently that have complained about the amount of threads that F1 gets. Mostly WRC and Motogp fans who are annoyed that their favourite series doesn't get as much attention.

Well if they made creative threads like this and the promoters of those sports did a better job a reciprocal effect would happen in their favor. I understand you weren't blaming me sorry if I came off a bit angry.

 

[LewyOs]

Auto sprint have released this picture claiming to be the new Ferrari:

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1/2012/01/23-10200/I+segreti+della+Ferrari+F12+martedi+su+AS

 

[Raikkonen1337]

interesting how they mention raising the rear exhaust to possibly point the gases toward the rear wing

 

[LewyOs]

Williams FW34 sneak peak.


Not sure where this should go either, doesn't deserve its own thread but interesting none the less, Kimi's set up sheet:

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Auto sprint have released this picture claiming to be the new Ferrari:

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1/2012/01/23-10200/I+segreti+della+Ferrari+F12+martedi+su+AS

It looks like last years car from that view, the only difference being the split side pods. Which to me look like small wings to take flight. I wouldn't be too surprised if it was just an updated version of last year's car.

Williams FW34 sneak peak.


Not sure where this should go either, doesn't deserve its own thread but interesting none the less, Kimi's set up sheet:

Some cool pictures LewyOs. Too bad the FW34 doesn't have more to get me excited. If there are two teams that have made me excited to see their car the most that past now three years it's Merc GP and Williams F1.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

delete

 

[Raikkonen1337]

looking forward to the iceman coming back ( see avatar ) and also to see what Force India brings to the season...Caterham might be interesting to see as well

 

[aarror]

looking forward to the iceman coming back ( see avatar ) and also to see what Force India brings to the season...Caterham might be interesting to see as well

I'm really hoping Caterham brings a fight to the midfield this year. I've followed them since they came into the sport in 2010, and the way they interact with the fans through facebook and twitter is second to none among the f1 teams. As for cars I'm looking forward to, I can't wait to see the way teams try to recover the downforce lost with the blown diffuser. Specifically Red Bull, as many speculated it (the blown diffuser) was the reason for their sucess.

 

[hawkeye122]

That picture... Is that the "Radical, balls to the wall" design Ferrari claimed they were going to do? It looks like last years car..

 

[F1 fan]

I'm really hoping Caterham brings a fight to the midfield this year. I've followed them since they came into the sport in 2010, and the way they interact with the fans through facebook and twitter is second to none among the f1 teams. As for cars I'm looking forward to, I can't wait to see the way teams try to recover the downforce lost with the blown diffuser. Specifically Red Bull, as many speculated it (the blown diffuser) was the reason for their sucess.

I'm also expecting a step up for Marrusia. We all know that Pat Symonds is designing the car and he's no slouch. Of course he will be hampered by the team's infrastructure, but I expect he will do a far better job than Nick Wirth.

 

[Peter.]

That picture... Is that the "Radical, balls to the wall" design Ferrari claimed they were going to do? It looks like last years car..

That picture is not the F12. That's a drawing someone decided to do for a magazine.

 

[Raikkonen1337]

This is true about Caterham...they also have a dedicated Flickr account with candid photos of the team, drivers, pit, etc. Wish other teams would do this as well since we can only see so much on tv. Yeah I heard this as well with Red Bull and the blown diffuser, but like Niki Lauda mentioned, they already have a very capable car and since they are at that level with their rb7 the rb8 wouldnt need as much of drastic improvement since they already have a good base to make improvements on...they can only move forward unless they try to do something dramatic with the aero which i think Adrian wouldnt really mess with unless 100% certain it would benefit the package as it is already, im also curious to see how Ferrari's going to look since they wanted to go for a more extreme design. 2012 will be a great season.