2012 Grand Premio Petrobras do Brasil

[Wardez]

Totally. And don't forget his car was sponsored by 7UP. Which is obviously one of the foremost of the illuminati covens.

 

[Dhalism]

Massa only qualified 6th at COTA before the grid penalty. Vettel and Hamilton went on to finish 40s ahead of the rest of the field.

The McLarens and Hulk were too much at Brazil. Massa could have managed 2nd place after Hulk and Hamilton crashed. But he wasn't going to challenge Button for a win. Button was half a minute ahead of Alonso before Di Resta brought out the safety car. Button was on a two stopper. Massa had no chance of winning.

Because starting 11th is the same as starting 6th, and being stuck behind Kimi Raikkonen for half the race does not matter?

 

[Wardez]

Ahahaha, too funny:

 

[Samus]

Totally. And don't forget his car was sponsored by 7UP. Which is obviously one of the foremost of the illuminati covens.

..not to mention 7 x 7 = 49, 4|9. 4+7 = 11/9 or 9/11. Then there must be something about triangles and Schumacher, Illuminati nuts love triangles.

On a more serious note that picture on autosport is amazing:

How that tyre wasn't at the very least punctured or forced off the rim is quite astounding.

 

[Pagey279]

Ahahaha, too funny:
*Kimi*

I. Love. That. Man.

Can't find a full post race interview, but this is what he said:

It was a busy race and we didn't have the pace we wanted all the time. There was certainly a lot going on. I went off at the last corner on lap fifty-two as I couldn't see well with my visor being dirty and fogged up. Where I went off you can get back on the track by going through the support race pit lane, but you have to go through a gate. I know this as I did the same thing in 2001 and the gate was open that year. Somebody closed it this time. Next year I’ll make sure it’s open again.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/11/14123.html

 

[ghskilla]

Totally. And don't forget his car was sponsored by 7UP. Which is obviously one of the foremost of the illuminati covens.

And *7*UP.

 

[Dhalism]

ive heard people say in 2001 he did it on a practice day, and that they probably close it on a race day.
there, useless piece of trivia hear say.
Also on a subject of Schumacher coincidences:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLJTyZYwZY&feature=g-hist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ-Dfbowv0c&feature=g-hist
Two retirements, two drivers, one corner, 6 years apart.

 

[RACECAR]

You know, I'd like to say a goodbye to Michael Schumacher. Goodbye Michael, hope you enjoy retirement. I'll miss that red helmet during a Grand Prix.

Fun fact: Schumacher started his first race seventh, and finished his last race seventh. He also has seven world titles, and his Mercedes's number is seven.

So, is Seven Schumacher's unlucky number?

That's some Illuminati nutjob material right there.

This sounds like a job for Jesse Ventura.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Even if he hadn't supposedly slowed down to help Alonso, his pace was nowhere near the front 3 and he was on inferior strategies to them too - Button and Hulk were the only drivers to stay on slicks hence their huge margin.

Massa tried to make the slicks work but couldn't and dropped back when the intermediate tires were the ones to be on. Ferrari pitted Massa onto intermediates right at the time when slicks started to become faster again. Massa, who had lost plenty of time being on the wrong tire, had to make two stops in quick succession right before the safety car. That is what put him back behind Vettel and Kobayashi.

As for his genuine pace when he was behind Alonso, we don't know. It is highly possible he may have been driving slower to create a buffer between himself and Alonso. This would have been useful to keep Alonso away from trouble and faster cars from behind.

Massa is a good driver, but he is not the greatest, he's not even as good as Button. I'd say he's about as good as Webber or Barrichello. Which is not an insult - its no bad thing. But he isn't as good as you are suggesting. He couldn't have won the 2012 Brazilian GP without some serious misfortune for his competitors.

Your opinion. I consider a younger Barrichello in high regard, perhaps as fast as Hamilton and Alonso, but obviously not the complete package, so he's hard to place. I'd say Massa is in the same category as Button, Webber and Raikkonen. Which is no insult to any of them.

 

[niky]

Despite his near-championship run when he was mates with Kimi, no, I don't place him on the same level. Kimi has some fantastic hands, and has been at the sharp end of the grid for a long time. Kimi is possibly an Alonso or Hamilton-level driver.

He's certainly played bridesmaid in McLaren often enough. Like Alonso, he's had too many seasons where he was almost champion, if not for bad luck and unreliable metal.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Kimi has been at the sharp end of the grid because he has been in very good cars. When Kimi was at McLaren, he was beating the likes of Coulthard and Montoya, hardly top drivers who kept him honest. He was almost champion a few times, but only because he had a very fast car. The myth grew that he was "the fastest man in F1". That should have been dispelled when he moved to Ferrari and was dead even with Massa, even being outscored and out-qualified by Massa in their 2.5 years as teammates. He hasn't exactly dominated Grosjean in terms of pace either.

Kimi is a very good driver, one of the best there is in wheel-to-wheel racing, but he is not and probably has never been one of the fastest drivers. And I think that is what keeps him from being one of the absolute top drivers. However there is no shame in that, there are only a very small number of those drivers, right now I'd say there are three of them, probably less on the past.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Adding to the above, Schumacher also scored 49 points this season, heh.

Following the Brazilian grand prix, Grosjean has now tied with Schumacher for DNFs this season, they both had 7.

Looking back on Schumacher's last 3 years of results, they're not too shabby, a bunch of 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths all over the place, with that podium 3rd on top. His comeback has gone better than it may seem really. He just got stuck with that bridesmaid of a car.

Edit: haha I just noticed that Schumacher finished 7th 7 times during his comeback.

 

[ghskilla]

Adding to the above, Schumacher also scored 49 points this season, heh.

Following the Brazilian grand prix, Grosjean has now tied with Schumacher for DNFs this season, they both had 7.

Looking back on Schumacher's last 3 years of results, they're not too shabby, a bunch of 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths all over the place, with that podium 3rd on top. His comeback has gone better than it may seem really. He just got stuck with that bridesmaid of a car.

7 DNFs. 7x7=49 points this season. Car number 7. Qualified 7th in his first ever F1 race, finished 7th in his last ever F1 race. 7 world titles. Sponsored by 7UP in the Jordan. 77 Fastest laps. Too many coincidences.

 

[wajdi1977]

I will miss Schumy,one of the greatest of all time.good luck!
I can't wait to see Hamilton with the Mercedec next year!

 

[Wardez]

He needs to come here to Vegas so we can show fate just how nimble he is.

 

[niky]

...Montoya, hardly top drivers...

Juan Pablo Montoya won FedEx CART. In his rookie year. Granted, the Gannasi team was coming off back-to-back championships with Zanardi, but still...

 

[homeforsummer]

But anyway, here's a very interesting article on Autosport about the damage Vettel dealt with in the last race. He was within an inch of the car's life. I can't imagine how crazy it must've felt for every one on the team since they were literally expecting the car to fall apart and retire at any second.

It's amazed me how solid that Red Bull seems to be in incidents like that. It isn't the first time the car has been involved in a crunch and continued seemingly unhindered.

It also makes you wonder how complex the cars really need to be aerodynamically, when pace doesn't seem to suffer greatly with damage.

Kimi has been at the sharp end of the grid because he has been in very good cars. When Kimi was at McLaren, he was beating the likes of Coulthard and Montoya, hardly top drivers who kept him honest. He was almost champion a few times, but only because he had a very fast car. The myth grew that he was "the fastest man in F1". That should have been dispelled when he moved to Ferrari and was dead even with Massa, even being outscored and out-qualified by Massa in their 2.5 years as teammates. He hasn't exactly dominated Grosjean in terms of pace either.

Kimi is a very good driver, one of the best there is in wheel-to-wheel racing, but he is not and probably has never been one of the fastest drivers. And I think that is what keeps him from being one of the absolute top drivers. However there is no shame in that, there are only a very small number of those drivers, right now I'd say there are three of them, probably less on the past.

And guess what, that's the same argument pretty much everyone uses for every top driver out there. "Schumacher only won in the best car" "Vettel only wins in the best car" "Button only won in the best car" etc.

Anyone who doesn't think Kimi is up there in terms of outright pace is kidding themselves. He's had several podiums and a win this year in a car that by the end of the season is probably the fourth best out there (was probably third for a while, but Ferrari did improve mid-season).

He's also - as you say - a staggeringly good wheel-to-wheel racer. Up there with Alonso, Button and Hamilton in that regard.

Oh, and I wonder who is sitting third in the all time "fastest laps" table?

 

[Wardez]

Yeah, he was Alonso before Alonso was Alonso in 2012 in that he never qualified consistently well and always made up a lot of time and pace in the races. He has relatively few poles considering the teams his been on and his years, compare that to Mika Hakkinen who managed 26 poles in 161 races, and Kimi's 16 with 176 races.

He was always the man having to crawl through the field and this is why he's so good at wheel to wheel now. In fact, I'd go so far as to say he's the benchmark of the field.

Edit:
heh, after looking at their careers more, they have a lot of similarities in some respects. But I just now realized they both drove for Lotus and McLaren mainly.

 

[Famine]

He's also - as you say - a staggeringly good wheel-to-wheel racer. Up there with Alonso, Button and Hamilton in that regard.

If you put Alonso, Button and Raikkonen in cars they could get identical laptimes out of, they'd run 10 laps wheel to wheel without any contact. If you put Hamilton in the mix, you might see a contact in those 10 laps. If you put Webber in, maybe one every five laps - which, for five identically-fast cars on the same patch of track for eight minutes, isn't bad.

If Vettel, Schumacher or Ayrton Senna were added, someone would be backwards in a barrier by the end of lap 1 - either through contact or being forced off.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Montoya, hardly top drivers who kept him honest.

Montoya during his Williams years was an incredibly fast driver. I always enjoyed his driving. He was a horrible personality, but his track performance was always to be enjoyed with his way of being aggressive. Without any doubt up there with Schumacher and Raikkonen pace-wise.

Then he went to McLaren and drove like he sort of gave up.

 

[homeforsummer]

If you put Alonso, Button and Raikkonen in cars they could get identical laptimes out of, they'd run 10 laps wheel to wheel without any contact. If you put Hamilton in the mix, you might see a contact in those 10 laps. If you put Webber in, maybe one every five laps - which, for five identically-fast cars on the same patch of track for eight minutes, isn't bad.

If Vettel, Schumacher or Ayrton Senna were added, someone would be backwards in a barrier by the end of lap 1 - either through contact or being forced off.

Quite. If this year has offered one thing in particular - and it's been a pretty good season overall - it's being able to see people like Raikkonen, Button and Alonso doing some absolutely beautiful driving, often within inches of each other. Raikkonen's driving in particular is a joy to watch - even when he's being overtaking, his determination to avoid losing a place - and the closeness by which he can get to another car without ramming them off the road - should be a lesson to all the young drivers currently climbing the ladder. And indeed, a lot of the young guns currently in F1.

Though credit to Schumacher at Brazil - his wheel-to-wheel first corner half way through the race with Raikkonen was about as close as I've seen anything this year. Their wheels were virtually interlocked but there wasn't even a slightest nudge of contact.

Then he went to McLaren and drove like he sort of gave up.

Then he went to NASCAR to indulge in his real passion, eating things.

 

[V v G T v V]

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2010, 2011, 2012 Champions ​

 

[Diabolik_za]

I'm a Vettel fan and I'm cringing after that.

Preview post is your friend.

 

[Brend]

What in god's name is that supposed to be.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Chapions​

What's this new word you speak of?

 

[wajdi1977]

V
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2010, 2011, 2012 Chapions ​

You made my day:tup:

 

[homeforsummer]

What's this new word you speak of?

Also, who is this...

V
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...bloke? Does he mean Vettel?

 

[D1gitaL]

You know, I'd like to say a goodbye to Michael Schumacher. Goodbye Michael, hope you enjoy retirement. I'll miss that red helmet during a Grand Prix.

Fun fact: Schumacher started his first race seventh, and finished his last race seventh. He also has seven world titles, and his Mercedes's number is seven.

This is great. I love Michael Schumacher.

 

[m8h3r]

If you put Alonso, Button and Raikkonen in cars they could get identical laptimes out of, they'd run 10 laps wheel to wheel without any contact. If you put Hamilton in the mix, you might see a contact in those 10 laps. If you put Webber in, maybe one every five laps - which, for five identically-fast cars on the same patch of track for eight minutes, isn't bad.

If Vettel, Schumacher or Ayrton Senna were added, someone would be backwards in a barrier by the end of lap 1 - either through contact or being forced off.

If only we could see this. I'd happily pay to watch.

 

[Alex.]

V
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2010, 2011, 2012 Chapions ​

Oh dear god save us.