2013 Formula 1 Grand Prix De Monaco

[F1GTR]

What's puzzling is that it seems that the FIA and the other teams didn't realise what was happening back in Barcelona - Mercedes didn't pack up after the race and it's not like they could have run the cars in silent mode. A bit farcical if that truly is the case.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Clearly Merc GP are putting all their money into ninja tactics to help the secretly test the car, while also using Jedi Mind tricks training to trick the main tire provider in assisting them. Luckily the FIA found out...my gosh we better not let this happen again

 

[HKS racer]

As much as I was hoping he did, it would seem he doesn't due to not getting back to me, you and others.

Also from what Brawn has said, the tire were not tagged and thus they didn't know what tire was what, so I'm unsure how that could be good representative data as far a tire wear goes. Now I agree with Niky perhaps suspension setup data could be gathered, but be reflective of this race or even next race I doubt.

Hey I can't stay the whole day in the forum. If I don't respond in a couple of minutes doesn't mean you are right because I'm not answering LOL.
As "Centura" user posted, something is happening with the FIA.
Let's see how it ends and let's see next race how MGP and RB will perform.

 

[Whodoyouthink]

This is all sort of surreal about Mercedes.

Merc haven't exactly been a hotshot team for the past few years as most of us know, and so there was a preconception on how they would perform coming in to this season.

We were all sort of left scratching our heads when we heard Lewis was joining them for this season.

It could just be that we've been underestimating them this season up until now, but now there is a smell of fishy in the air with this Pirelli testing story.

For some reason, I'm still optimistic though, and don't feel that the testing is what gave Rosburg the win.

 

[HKS racer]

It could just be that we've been underestimating them this season up until now, but now there is a smell of fishy in the air with this Pirelli testing story.

For some reason, I'm still optimistic though, and don't feel that the testing is what gave Rosburg the win.

It's still 1000 km of testing. You can also develop the car, not only testing the tyres. FIA need to clarify what's happened and let all the other teams doing the same. That would be more fair.

 

[Samus]

Clearly Merc GP are putting all their money into ninja tactics to help the secretly test the car, while also using Jedi Mind tricks training to trick the main tire provider in assisting them. Luckily the FIA found out...my gosh we better not let this happen again

As funny a mental picture that is clearly this is a serious issue. I certainly don't believe Merc and Pirelli conspired together to carry out this test but if it wasn't properly signed off nor carried out correctly clearly the other teams are right to question it.

If it can be proven only unlabled, 2014 tyres were used and that no new parts were used then i'd guess they'll just be hit with a big fine. If they can't prove it however they may be in bigger trouble. Either that or the other 11 teams will be testing at Barcelona soon.

 

[lbsf1]

Even if no new parts were used and tyres were unmarked there are still various things that Merc could test, they could do testing on current parts looking at the data/airflow on them and generally just be able to understand their car abit better, something there isn't much time to do on race weekends.

The thing however is that this is completely within the rules (as the pirelli guy said on the bbc coverage.), so it looks like this is a case of something that seems unfair however is allowed, and thus probably now will be changed.

 

[Samus]

I'm no expert but I believe (or at least FER and RBR seem to saying) that using the 2013 car was against the rules. There is also the issue not every team agreed/knew but I don't know if that is a defined rule. I'm sure the big F1 sites will have all the facts tomorrow.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

As funny a mental picture that is clearly this is a serious issue. I certainly don't believe Merc and Pirelli conspired together to carry out this test but if it wasn't properly signed off nor carried out correctly clearly the other teams are right to question it.

If it can be proven only unlabled, 2014 tyres were used and that no new parts were used then i'd guess they'll just be hit with a big fine. If they can't prove it however they may be in bigger trouble. Either that or the other 11 teams will be testing at Barcelona soon.

I absolutely agree it's serious but when the FIA comes out and does one of those classic press releases to be scary, I just have to make jokes. However, I will say until proven otherwise that the test wasn't too gain nth amounts of advantage over everyone else. Merc didn't have the time to churn out extra parts for this only, and I believe Pirelli and Merc when they say unmarked tires were used. I think the easiest way to fix this is how you put it, have the other 11 test at tracks that they can, just like Merc did and be done with it. Thus at the end of Silverstone next month have RBR and say Ferrari stay after and run more. And so on for the others, if they are 2014 spec tires, then there shouldn't be an issue just fitting them in this year before next year starts.

Even if no new parts were used and tyres were unmarked there are still various things that Merc could test, they could do testing on current parts looking at the data/airflow on them and generally just be able to understand their car abit better, something there isn't much time to do on race weekends.

The thing however is that this is completely within the rules (as the pirelli guy said on the bbc coverage.), so it looks like this is a case of something that seems unfair however is allowed, and thus probably now will be changed.

Exactly and what has been said before is the FIA are only left to blame when teams find a way to benefit due to vague wording in regs. If the FIA actually went to work and were more descriptive with certain rules, we wouldn't here them crying foul. I mean if they can muck up other aspects of F1, I don't see why they can't with a reg book.

Also I guess the CIA informed Merc GP how to operate in secret as well, since the FIA is calling this clandestine testing

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

The article about the Pirelli-Mercedes gates on autosport is really interesting. You can see it will be hard to judge. I guess Mercedes will have some sort of penalty. I dont know how they gonna do it tho.

As for myself I'm pretty happy if we can have another team fighting for the championship. Even if the method wasnt the most clear. I seem to remember that Ferrari did something like that as well not so long ago.

Btw if you read the article on autosport you'll see that other team got the same offer as Mercedes but turn it down. I dont see why Mercedes should be penalize. If all in the article is true.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I don't understand how this has only came to light in the last 24 hours or so, has another team held the information back and waited for the result of qualifying before protesting? Last year I recall Adrian Newey saying that he's had spys from other teams trying to gain information so for something as major and as obvious as this to go unnoticed.

 

[R5]

I have a BRILLIANT idea to solve all of this mess.


Revert to the older tyres for 2014, then the racing will be better and we won't have this problem then as the teams will have loads of data.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I have a BRILLIANT idea to solve all of this mess.


Revert to the older tyres for 2014, then the racing will be better and we won't have this problem then as the teams will have loads of data.

Racing will be better how? You do realize the cars are going to be very different and the data from the past will not suffice due to the brand new technical regulations. Also how do you know that next year gen tires wont be better than this year for the cars that will use them?

 

[Seismica]

This is all sort of surreal about Mercedes.

Merc haven't exactly been a hotshot team for the past few years as most of us know, and so there was a preconception on how they would perform coming in to this season.

We were all sort of left scratching our heads when we heard Lewis was joining them for this season.

It could just be that we've been underestimating them this season up until now, but now there is a smell of fishy in the air with this Pirelli testing story.

For some reason, I'm still optimistic though, and don't feel that the testing is what gave Rosburg the win.

Especially when it was Bernie who initially suggested the Mercedes move for Hamilton. Hamilton probably has the largest fan base of any current driver, and it's in the best interests of FOM for him to perform well. So they give Mercedes an unfair advantage with extra tyre testing, when their initial plan of the hydraulic ride height control system didn't ensure victories (I mean seriously, similar devices over the past few years have been banned despite also being passive, but this one is allowed? I'm all for innovation, but the legality ruling of this is a little fishy). It reaks of a possible conspiracy (It is very outlandish I must admit), but it is more likely just a massive coincidence, and maybe Pirelli just mis-interpreted the rules in their contract. Maybe. The big hole in this is that Nico is outperforming Lewis.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

My quick reactions on seeing the tape are similar to Niky's;

1). Mega drive/weekend from Rosberg, a popular win. Reminded me a bit of Webber's run in 2010 the way he calmly dealt with the safety-car restarts.

2). Vettel could quite clearly have caught Rosberg without doing in his tires, but with Raikkonen and Alonso so far down the field, there was nothing in it for him to take risks in trying to get past. So he was as much or more than Rosberg in cruise mode.

3). Webber benefitted from Hamilton's bad luck with the timing of the safety car. A blah drive from him, nothing really special.

4). Perez was clearly at fault in hitting Raikkonen. Guess he was expecting Kimi to cut the chicane and give him the place, having drawn the wrong lesson from Alonso's giving way with a balky, understeery car. He is talented, yes, but he's also pressing.

5). Grosjean ... why? Leaves me wondering what the buy-out to Force India or Sauber is for getting Sutil, Di Resta or Hulkenberg mid-season. But to be fair, did Ricciardo brake a bit early?

6). Chilton ... why? But I was saying that before the season even started. More people would be asking the question if he'd hit a more popular driver than Maldonado.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Especially when it was Bernie who initially suggested the Mercedes move for Hamilton. Hamilton probably has the largest fan base of any current driver, and it's in the best interests of FOM for him to perform well. So they give Mercedes an unfair advantage with extra tyre testing, when their initial plan of the hydraulic ride height control system didn't ensure victories (I mean seriously, similar devices over the past few years have been banned despite also being passive, but this one is allowed? I'm all for innovation, but the legality ruling of this is a little fishy). It reaks of a possible conspiracy (It is very outlandish I must admit), but it is more likely just a massive coincidence, and maybe Pirelli just mis-interpreted the rules in their contract. Maybe. The big hole in this is that Nico is outperforming Lewis.

Lotus currently have a system like this...http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/897/1065.html

So I don't think this conspiracy is up to par all the way.

 

[Peasantslayer]

The big hole in this is that Nico is outperforming Lewis.

Until Lewis sorts himself out.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Until Lewis sorts himself out.

I'm right there waiting with you...but we will have to wait and see. Like I said earlier Canada seems to usually bring some happiness to his life due to the success he has had, so hopefully it will get his head on straight. Still I'm am vastly happy with Nico today as well because I've supported him since 2010 when he went over to Merc GP, and have always had a spot for him due to his dad.

Good job Nico with the historic win and another notch in the F1 belt.

 

[Seismica]

Lotus currently have a system like this...http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2013/897/1065.html

So I don't think this conspiracy is up to par all the way.

It is ridiculous. I don't fully believe my own conspiracy for one minute, it's just there has been a very fishy sequence of events surrounding Mercedes and it just causes me to speculate.

• Bernie convinces Hamilton to move to Mercedes.
• Mercedes suddenly jumped to the top of the timesheets due to a new suspension innovation of the sort that was widely believed to be illegal after the clarification at the start of 2012.
• Rosberg told to hold station when behind Hamilton in Malaysia despite being much faster. This follows speculation about Ross Brawn's future with Mercedes.
• Mercedes struggling with tyres. Bernie calls for Pirelli to change tyres, following calls from the teams.
• Less than a fortnight later, Mercedes get a secret test session on the new tyres.

It's just a bizarre set of circumstances that's all.

Until Lewis sorts himself out.

To be honest, they have both been performing well, but I think so far this year Rosberg has had the edge, when you take into account his mechanical failures earlier in the season which puts him at a disadvantage points wise. At the start of the year I was expecting Hamilton to wipe the floor with him, at least in qualifying. It just goes to show that perhaps Schumacher wasn't 'past it' after all, as he was keeping pace with Rosberg, who is now keeping pace with arguably the fastest driver in the sport over a single lap.

 

[Samus]

It is still bizarre that Mercedes seemingly managed to test for three days at the most popular F1 test circuit and nobody noticed. Especially when it was the days right after the GP at the track. Did nobody else from the F1 circus go back to the track? In the days of social media did no locals hear or see them and report it? Or as above did none of the team spys notice Mercedes hadn't left the track? Personel weren't on planes back to Blighty?

That is more fishy to me than any conspiracy theory about Mercedes.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It is still bizarre that Mercedes seemingly managed to test for three days at the most popular F1 test circuit and nobody noticed. Especially when it was the days right after the GP at the track. Did nobody else from the F1 circus go back to the track? In the days of social media did no locals hear or see them and report it? Or as above did none of the team spys notice Mercedes hadn't left the track? Personel weren't on planes back to Blighty?

That is more fishy to me than any conspiracy theory about Mercedes.

CIA/Ninja/Jedi clearly are better than you can imagine.

Seriously though, that is why I have to keep making fun, for no one to be aware yet out of the blue it turns up Saturday night before the race...

 

[-Fred-]

The FIA showing manufacturer/driver allegiances/special treatments?

Nope, never happened before.

 

[Samus]

CIA/Ninja/Jedi clearly are better than you can imagine.

Seriously though, that is why I have to keep making fun, for no one to be aware yet out of the blue it turns up Saturday night before the race...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Oh I forgot to add that Ferrari also supposedly did it in Bahrain and nobody knew. "Hey guys, isn't freight plane 2 a bit empty? Isn't it usually full of red boxes?" "Yeah they must be shipping later, I WONDER WHY?" apparently said nobody.

my sides make it stop this is too funny.

 

[TheCadabers]

All in all a stellar performance from Adrian Sutil, some fantastic overtakes on Alonso, and Button to really show the competitiveness of the Force India.

 

[niky]

The whole tire testing debacle is obviously being given a political slant. The teams will have their protests, but they're going to hold it for the weekend of the race. Gives the protest maximum media exposure, and forces the FIA to consider it on a very tight schedule.

If it's done before the race, Pirelli and Mercedes could lay all their cards on the table, Pirelli could say... "Hey, honest mistake", and give all the teams the data they've collected.

Instead, the FIA are left looking incompetent for "not knowing" what's going on, even though they were informed testing would take place. Pirelli are left looking like they're playing favorites. Yeah... an Italian tire company supporting a German manufacturer instead of Ferrari, who they also tested with? And Mercedes are left looking guilty of something, especially since they've won Monaco, even though most of us know that it would've taken an absolute miracle for anyone to overtake Nico up front for the lead on this hellishly tight track.

-

Nobody up front had tire problems, except Hamilton, who kept taking silly pokes at Webber that never stuck. Rosberg had the race in the bag because none of the front-runner were going to gamble on a huge undercut on him, because he had the field bunched up so closely. The only monkeywrench in Merc's gameplan was the safety car, which forced them to pit Rosberg and Hamilton together. Which lost Hamilton several seconds and two places.

-

Again. The protest was timed for maximum effect. Just like most protests have been. In the end, if Mercedes were to benefit big time from the testing, it would only show up in Canada, when they'll be running those specific tires and they'll have some knowledge of how to tune their suspension for it, even without specific tire data.

-

Mercedes are having a good season, in spite of the controversy. They're expected to. They have a good driver line-up, they've pirated a lot of excellent engineering talent, they have a fast car. The only thing missing is a way to keep those tires from going off so quickly.

 

[SkengD]

What about the team that has already done one of these tests earlier in the season ?

Is that true or false ? Which team was it ? Only time will tell I guess .....

 

[niky]

It was Ferrari. With an older car. But the experience also gives them insight into how the tires behave, even without Pirelli's data. Mercedes would stand to benefit more, however.

 

[SkengD]

It was Ferrari. With an older car. But the experience also gives them insight into how the tires behave, even without Pirelli's data. Mercedes would stand to benefit more, however.

2 different situations but both should be treated the same imo

 

[Louie_Schumii]

Hate to bring up an older topic from the Grand Prix but I'm a big fan of Vettel's 2013 Monaco lid. Did anyone catch Martin Brundle's gridwalk when they were waiting to get an interview with him and Seb + co. were more concerned with making sure his helmet was away from the sun?