Formula 1 Grand Prix de Monaco 2022Formula 1

[McLaren]

And now we have another race w/ Red Bull being accused of playing favoritism again.

Jos Verstappen, the father of F1 world champion Max, has criticised Red Bull's Monaco Grand Prix strategy and said the team should have prioritised his son and not Sergio Perez.

Verstappen finished third in Monaco as Red Bull teammate Perez claimed victory at the Principality.

"Red Bull achieved a good result, but at the same time exerted little influence to help Max to the front," Jos wrote in a blog post posted to MaxVerstappen.com.

"That he finished third, he owes to Ferrari's mistake at that second stop of Charles Leclerc. The championship leader, Max, was not helped in that sense by the chosen strategy. It turned completely to Checo's [Perez] favour. That was disappointing to me, and I would have liked it to be different for the championship leader.

He added: "I think ten points from Max have been thrown away here. Especially with the two retirements we've had, we need every points. Don't forget that Ferrari currently has a better car, especially in qualifying."

Verstappen's dad blasts Red Bull's Monaco calls

Jos Verstappen, the father of F1 world champion Max, has criticised Red Bull's Monaco Grand Prix strategy and said the team should have prioritised his son and not Sergio Perez.

www.espn.com

I think this sort of drama is something Red Bull would've preferred left behind in Spain. Internal spats as they climb back into the WDC & WCC are only going to help Ferrari make up for their blunders.

 

[Famine]

And now we have another race w/ Red Bull being accused of playing favoritism again.

Holy ****, what is Jos even on?!

 

[Veinz]

Happy to see Sergio get the contract extension. Gasly must be a little rattled about that.

 

[NICKname]

Happy to see Sergio get the contract extension. Gasly must be a little rattled about that.

Gasly has nothing to be rattled about after his abysmal performance (and matching attitude) during his stint at Red Bull. His seasons with Alpha Tauri were an act of charity, not a preparation or an assessment. Perez on the other hand has proven himself to be the right guy for the job.

 

[CoenRSD]

Idea to make a General F1 Discussion Thread? @Famine. I see more and more people contributing in F1 talks nowadays on GTPlanet.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Idea to make a General F1 Discussion Thread? @Famine. I see more and more people contributing in F1 talks nowadays on GTPlanet.

F1 is a big enough discussion point that we have relevant threads for each specific part you want to talk about. See here for a post detailing everywhere you can talk about something.

 

[CoenRSD]

F1 is a big enough discussion point that we have relevant threads for each specific part you want to talk about. See here for a post detailing everywhere you can talk about something.

Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the answer.

 

[DG_Silva]

Yes. As stated twice now, Red Bull's argument was that the 2022 Sporting Code (Appendix L, Ch4) states only that the car may not cross the line, and the car didn't. Ferrari's argument was that the Race Directors Notes (to which I've also linked you) for the 2022 Monaco Grand Prix states that the car must remain to the right of the yellow pit exit line and as the tyres partly touched and exceeded the line it did not.

The FIA Race Stewards conclusion was that the Race Directors Notes cited the 2021 Sporting Code (Appendix L, Ch4) and the 2022 Code says something different, but the Notes cannot contradict the Code (even though, as I stated, Notes routinely redefine track limits in a different manner to the Code) so that point of the Notes is invalid.

Red Bull conceded that the tyres partly touched and exceeded the line, while the car did not cross the line, so regardless of what camera angles you think there are that show the tyres didn't touch or exceed the line, they did. Red Bull admitted it. The defence was that it wasn't against the rules to do so.

There's something slightly different according to Autosport though:

Back in 2020, the ISC section stated: “Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car leaving the pits.”

That was modified at the end of last year, to apply for this season, to say: “Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), any tyre of a car exiting the pit lane must not cross any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pit lane from those on the track.”

This wording puts the emphasis back on crossing the line, rather than touching it, and now revolved around the tyres than just a single car part.

Irrespective of citing the 2021 version of the ISC rules (which don't technically exist as a version) instead of the 2022, surely all competition automatically adheres to the latest version of all applicable regulations, unless those regs have a nominated starting date. As the tyre did cross the line, surely they're guilty? But why would the FIA stick to their own rules, instead of making them up on the fly?....

 

[IcySlivers]

I hope Monaco gets removed from the series going forward. Boring conga line. The only way it can stay around is if the track is radically redesigned imo, needs to be wider in nearly all parts. But ya, I hope the rumors are true. Also Monaco having special treatment like with the filming needs to end, they are kind of amateur hour.

 

[Grand Prix]

Either install a sprinkler system there, have them race around it in fast karts or, what I would prefer, Bugatti Type 35 replicas. Make it a one-off special event. It was shaping up to be a classic Monaco Grand Prix once they actually started, but when it dried up, nothing happened.

Bear in mind that (much of) this circuit layout was conceived in 1929 for 1929 cars. GP cars of that time could overtake quite easily. It wasn't an issue. In fact one of the most action-packed Grands Prix ever happened at Monaco in 1933, which saw a total of 21 lead overtakes. The issue isn't with the circuit, it's the cars.

 

[Dennisch]

Just scrap the race. It has had it moments. If you need rain for even one overtake, and then it's only because someone is on the wrong tyres, they'll have to realise it is done.

 

[Jimlaad43]

As I said in the F1 calendar thread, Let Formula E take the title of Monaco Grand Prix from here on in. When I raced on the shirt layout, the racing sucked, but as soon as they used the full layout, it just works so well. It is a perfect design for Formula E cars, they can race well around the place and aren't massively slow. The series is staying strong and keeps thinking it's the "Future of Motorsport", so give it some extra credibility like this. The drivers who win Monaco ePrix's are always saying how special it is to win at Monaco, so allow the legend to continue into cars which produce the racing we want around an iconic venue.

Of you have never watched the 2021 race, I urge to to watch it, it was honestly the most exciting race I have ever watched around the principality - and it didn't even need much crashing to make it good.

 

[NICKname]

As I said in the F1 calendar thread, Let Formula E take the title of Monaco Grand Prix from here on in. When I raced on the shirt layout, the racing sucked, but as soon as they used the full layout, it just works so well. It is a perfect design for Formula E cars, they can race well around the place and aren't massively slow. The series is staying strong and keeps thinking it's the "Future of Motorsport", so give it some extra credibility like this. The drivers who win Monaco ePrix's are always saying how special it is to win at Monaco, so allow the legend to continue into cars which produce the racing we want around an iconic venue.

Of you have never watched the 2021 race, I urge to to watch it, it was honestly the most exciting race I have ever watched around the principality - and it didn't even need much crashing to make it good.

I think the Formula E event should just remain the ePrix. The series is far too gimmicky to just inherit an event this old and prestigious.

What they could do is make F2 the support series for the Monaco ePrix and make the F2 feature race the Grand Prix. Similar to the Macau and Pau GPs. Then you'd have a trilogy of non-F1 GPs on absurd street circuits.

 

[O604]

Monaco is F1.

Not so much for drivers or fans. But for the jet-set, luxury watch buying crowd. Monaco is the standard. And that image has been important to them.

 

[ZoomingZoomer]

Holy ****, what is Jos even on?!

Fatherhood.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I hope Monaco gets removed from the series going forward. Boring conga line. The only way it can stay around is if the track is radically redesigned imo, needs to be wider in nearly all parts. But ya, I hope the rumors are true. Also Monaco having special treatment like with the filming needs to end, they are kind of amateur hour.

Never happen. It's the most watched sporting event in the world two years out of every four. Those two it's the second biggest behind the Olympics one year and the World Cup in the other.

 

[IcySlivers]

Never happen. It's the most watched sporting event in the world two years out of every four. Those two it's the second biggest behind the Olympics one year and the World Cup in the other.

I know it’s very popular, but I still hope it gets removed

 

[Bosso]

Never happen. It's the most watched sporting event in the world two years out of every four. Those two it's the second biggest behind the Olympics one year and the World Cup in the other.

Yeah it's huge. I think India v Pakistan is also in the mix as well.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I know it’s very popular, but I still hope it gets removed

The only thing the F1 owners care about are viewing numbers. That determines how much they can charge TV companies. That drives the money go round.

You or me agreeing that as a track it is rubbish will not change a single thing.

 

[Touring Mars]

I still think there's a place for different types of race in the F1 calendar. I'd sooner see a few other circuits dropped than see Monaco dropped, as Monaco presents a unique challenge to drivers.

That said, I do think that it might be time to consider doing something about the event - like more points for qualifying (say half point for qualifying and half for the race?) so its more of a time trial event... that and bonus points for fastest lap(s) so that the "race" itself doesn't count for much of the points, since the circuit and cars effectively kill the race anyway.

 

[Ej20]

Sorry I didn't know where to post this but who here was unaware that Norris paid for his McLaren seat?

Lando Norris Bucks The Pay-Driver Trend

Lando Norris continues his impressive season with a podium in Austria leaving his expensive teammate Daniel Ricciardo scratching his head. Lando owes much of

f1chronicle.com

 

[MagpieRacer]

Sorry I didn't know where to post this but who here was unaware that Norris paid for his McLaren seat?

Lando Norris Bucks The Pay-Driver Trend

Lando Norris continues his impressive season with a podium in Austria leaving his expensive teammate Daniel Ricciardo scratching his head. Lando owes much of

f1chronicle.com

Aware, not a new thing. Pay drivers get spoken about like it's some forbidden thing when actually most drivers are pay drivers, some are just a little more obvious. Mazepin, Stroll, Latifi etc, no real acclaim behind them, monstrous team investments, buying teams etc. Lando is a good driver, great even, and the investment his father has made Vs Stroll or Mazepin is not on the same level. F1 is a rich man's sport, if we're going to call any driver a pay driver because of the investment they have had in their career and F1, then they all are or have been at some point.

In other words, no one cares much about Lando getting monetary help in his career because he does have the lace and ability to back it up. Others get berated because they get extensive help and lack the ability.

 

[Liquid]

schumacher_was_paydrv.txt

 

[Ej20]

Aware, not a new thing. Pay drivers get spoken about like it's some forbidden thing when actually most drivers are pay drivers, some are just a little more obvious. Mazepin, Stroll, Latifi etc, no real acclaim behind them, monstrous team investments, buying teams etc. Lando is a good driver, great even, and the investment his father has made Vs Stroll or Mazepin is not on the same level. F1 is a rich man's sport, if we're going to call any driver a pay driver because of the investment they have had in their career and F1, then they all are or have been at some point.

In other words, no one cares much about Lando getting monetary help in his career because he does have the lace and ability to back it up. Others get berated because they get extensive help and lack the ability.

Iam aware of the whole pay driver scenario but I was unaware of Lando being one. This makes alot of sense as to why McLaren have continuously headed down the development path that suits Lando more than Ricciardo. See imo Ricciardos struggles are 90% McLaren's fault, this year they had the perfect chance to go a different route starting fresh with these new regs than continue down basically the same path as previous seasons to atleast justify the money they have spent on Ricciardos salary. How can they expect him to perform and extract the potential out the car if it's developed around the style Norris prefers which is quite similar to alonsos so from the outside it looks like the team are still using foundations that were put in place when Alonso was there. Iam not saying Norris isn't good, he's a great talent and certainly can extract the performance out of the car when need be but I don't think the comparison between him and Ricciardo is fair and as clear cut as many seem to think it is.

schumacher_was_paydrv.txt

That was Mercedes paying Eddie Jordan to give him a run in the Jordan for the 91 Belgian Grand prix. Bit different than having your father or family member fit the bill, besides it didn't last long as Benetton made an extensive offer to steal him away from Jordan at the very next race in Monza.

 

[Liquid]

That was Mercedes paying Eddie Jordan to give him a run in the Jordan for the 91 Belgian Grand prix. Bit different than having your father or family member fit the bill, besides it didn't last long as Benetton made an extensive offer to steal him away from Jordan at the very next race in Monza.

sigh

Someone else who misses the point. And it's already been talked about in this very thread.

Edit:

That was Mercedes paying Eddie Jordan

Say that again but slowly.

 

[ZoomingZoomer]

sigh

Someone else who misses the point. And it's already been talked about in this very thread.

Edit:



Say that again but slowly.

It’s one thing to pay for a seat to get into F1, but quite another to pay to stay in F1.

 

[MagpieRacer]

It’s one thing to pay for a seat to get into F1, but quite another to pay to stay in F1.

Had Benetton not intercepted Schumacher and poached him from under Eddie Jordans nose (with some significant outside help), Schumacher would have been paying somewhere around $3.5 million per season ('92, '93 and possibly '94), $7.5 million roughly adjusted for inflation. Plus $150'000 per race for the remainder of '91 ($320'000 today's money). Were it not for Bernie Ecclestone, Briatores ruthlessness and Benetton paying their existing driver to leave, Schumacher would have been extensively paying for his seat. He may well have still been doing so at Benetton but we don't know for sure.

 

[Samus]

F1 is expensive, money has to come from somewhere. Lando clearly has the talent to be in F1 so why does it matter if he's funding the seat or the team is?

 

[NICKname]

Red Bull tried stealing Norris away from McLaren when he was still in F2. Money wasn't what got him into the sport, money was what got him a seat at McLaren.

 

[Ej20]

sigh

Someone else who misses the point. And it's already been talked about in this very thread.

Edit:



Say that again but slowly.

So you don't think a manufacturer paying for a driver's seat doesn't hold more weight than a family member doing so? This is the point Iam trying to make.

Had Benetton not intercepted Schumacher and poached him from under Eddie Jordans nose (with some significant outside help), Schumacher would have been paying somewhere around $3.5 million per season ('92, '93 and possibly '94), $7.5 million roughly adjusted for inflation. Plus $150'000 per race for the remainder of '91 ($320'000 today's money). Were it not for Bernie Ecclestone, Briatores ruthlessness and Benetton paying their existing driver to leave, Schumacher would have been extensively paying for his seat. He may well have still been doing so at Benetton but we don't know for sure.

For Benetton to do that, they must have seen a significant reason to do so and we all know what happened.