2014 Belgian Grand Prix

[craigatm]

If it were Alonso or Vettel in Lewis's shoes, or one of the great champions from the past, how do you think they would have reacted instead?

Like "It's cool bro, seriously I don't mind, I'm sure there's nothing you could have done, maybe I'll win the WDC next year instead"?

When Romain Grosjean caused that ridiculous accident at Spa in 2012, that also wiped out a large chunk of Fernando's points advantage with it, Alonso remained cool. His points buffer before the race was an advantage he so desperately needed to win the title, but his reaction after the race? Well...

As for Vettel, I believe he would have reacted in a similar way to Alonso. Although he can at times get wound up when things aren't going his way, he's intelligent, and a logical thinker. Hamilton meanwhile is the sort of petty moron, who'd tweet his teams telemetry, because he was sure he should have been faster. Believe me, no other driver on the grid two years ago (or now even), would have been that much of an imbecile! I knew he was messed up in the head even before he did that. But after his Twitter incident at McLaren I could tell it wouldn't be too long before he'd do something just like he has done, this weekend.

 

[Dustone]

Im hoping Ricciardo can do a Raikkonen in 2007 and sweep through for the WDC with the Mercedes drivers (ironically with Hamilton again) imploding

 

[BHRxRacer]

Which pic were you looking at? Clearly not the one below.

The pic I attached in this post:

He (wrongfully) trusted Hamilton to give him space. He had full lock to the left trying to stay as far as possible, Hamilton just took the racing line as if nobody was there.

Again, feel free to call me an idiot but I remember a lot of "experts" on TV agreed with me. Including Martin Brundle.

Look at the pic.


Wrong. Just..Wrong.

Any normal driver would have slotted in behind Lewis but Pastor of course is never going to back out and ruins both their races.

Pastor turns left for the corner after but because of his stupidity and not giving in he goes over the kerb instead of aborting the chicane and slotting in behind.

That was wrong, yes. It's also wrong for Hamilton to drive like a gangster wit no regard to anybody around him. I'll try to find the full race on one of my old hard disks and upload that part.

When Romain Grosjean caused that ridiculous accident at Spa in 2012, that also wiped out a large chunk of Fernando's points advantage with it, Alonso remained cool.

It's funny you bring that one up, he (Alonso) actually blamed Hamilton

 

[Ninners]

If Hamilton had no regard for anybody around him he would have a reputation for that, no? Again if Pastor was patient like Kimi was with dealing with Lewis everything would have been fine.

 

[BHRxRacer]

If Hamilton had no regard for anybody around him he would have a reputation for that, no? Again if Pastor was patient like Kimi was with dealing with Lewis every thing would have been fine.

He does have a reputation for it, it's just that Hamilton fanboys are sweeping the internet now. Remember the "Hamilton's fault" running joke on the internet in 2011? Even before that.

 

[craigatm]

It's funny you bring that one up, he (Alonso) actually blamed Hamilton

True, but Fernando didn't make daft accusations of any malice. That's the fundamental difference.

 

[Nessy]

That was wrong, yes. It's also wrong for Hamilton to drive like a gangster wit no regard to anybody around him.

How doe's one drive like a "gangster"?...

One-handed, half hanging outside the car with a foot on the running-board, (side-pod in this case) whilst shooting at others tyres with a tommy-gun?

 

[BHRxRacer]

True, but Fernando didn't make daft accusations of any malice. That's the fundamental difference.

Who's accusing who of malice here?

How doe's one drive like a "gangster"?... one-handed, half hanging outside the car with a foot on the running-board, (side-pod in this case) whilst shooting at others tyres with a tommy-gun?

I explained this in my first post. Driving with double standards and no regard to others, like some kind of "boss". When he's at the front, he takes the racing line even if a stinger missile was going towards it. When he's at the back, he crashes into you saying he's entitled to be left space. Read my first post again.

 

[Tyger]

In other news, I am getting really irked at people like Eddie Jordan constantly bashing Jenson Button, and lauding Kevin Magnusson. Button is over 30 points ahead of the younger driver, and for the most part has outperformed him in each GP. Yesterday he started several places behind him but ended right up in his gearbox. They are also overlooking the fact that car still just isn't up to it.

 

[Nessy]

Who's accusing who of malice here?



Driving with double standards and no regard to others, like some kind of "boss". When he's at the front, he takes the racing line even if a stinger missile was going towards it.

Oh, so you're suggesting he drives "like some kind of boss"..

You mean like a CEO or manager, in a business like manner. Yes?

 

[niky]

The pic I attached in this post:

Again: Maldonado goes off the track, rejoins without hitting the brakes, takes out the driver in front of him.

How is that Hamilton's fault?

And how are we still discussing this several pages after the fact?

-

When you're in front without an appreciable overlap, you've got the racing line. Wherever the car would naturally go without the following driver there, you're entitled to that space.

You are not allowed to veer off in a random direction off the racing line to block the other driver, but you can close the door if you've established position.

Lewis is cognizant of this fact, which is why he can do what he does without penalty... as we discussed in excruciating length several races ago... because what he does is legal and accepted. It is impossible to penalize a driver for following the racing line while another driver is not alongside him. Otherwise you are telling people to roll over and play dead for each and every botched overtake.

-

In Maldonado's case... he has a knack for following a racing line that's apparent only to himself and the pixies that float around his head... while ignoring the actual racing line... which is why he (rightfully) gets penalized for what he does.

 

[Brend]

One thing I've learned is that people's bias toward hating Hamilton is completely unmatched. Even in a situation like this, where he has clearly been on the end of injustice, people will still fight to the death about whether Rosberg 'meant it'.

 

[MonSpaNur]

It is curious that the most die-hard fans of Hamilton, and Lewis himself, showed to be so scandalized because Nico have applied the philosophy that they defend so strongly when speaking about, either Lewis, or his great idol, Ayrton Senna.

"... if you no longer go for a gap, that exists, you no longer a racing driver ..." could have been Rosberg's response over yesterdays accident.
And would be as legitimate as the one that Senna gave to Stewart in the famous interview.

Obviously, Ayrton, Lewis, and Nico, are wrong.
Position the car in order to put your opponent in the situation of having to choose, or to move away and lose a place, or to be involved in an accident while, rightfully, claiming the racing line, is not the wise way to be on a track.
As Rosberg showed so well yesterday.

Truth be told, since 2011 Lewis has shown a very good behaviour on the track and the results he has achieved clearly demonstrate the validity of this philosophy.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Oh, so you're suggesting he drives "like some kind of boss"..

You mean like a CEO or manager, in a business like manner. Yes?

Nessy, you know what metaphor is, right? I'll give you an example. Driving like a "Douchebag" does not relate to the actual driving abilities of bags you can find in a shower, but with what Rosberg did. Although Hamilton can be blamed for doing the same on occasion, and that's what I guess BHRxRacer wants to say when he uses the gangster or boss metaphors.

 

[BHRxRacer]

You mean like a CEO or manager, in a business like manner, yes?

Yes exactly.

In other news, I am getting really irked at people like Eddie Jordan constantly bashing Jenson Button, and lauding Kevin Magnusson. Button is over 30 points ahead of the younger driver, and for the most part has outperformed him in each GP. Yesterday he started several places behind him but ended right up in his gearbox. They are also overlooking the fact that car still just isn't up to it.

Button has been getting **** for his driving since he moved to Mclaren but yeah it's extra unfair this season. Getting beat by a rookie isn't as big as a deal as it used to be like it was in older cars.

Again: Maldonado goes off the track, rejoins without hitting the brakes, takes out the driver in front of him.

How is that Hamilton's fault?

And how are we still discussing this several pages after the fact?

-

When you're in front without an appreciable overlap, you've got the racing line. Wherever the car would naturally go without the following driver there, you're entitled to that space.

You are not allowed to veer off in a random direction off the racing line to block the other driver, but you can close the door if you've established position.

Lewis is cognizant of this fact, which is why he can do what he does without penalty... as we discussed in excruciating length several races ago... because what he does is legal and accepted.

-

In Maldonado's case... he has a knack for following a racing line that's apparent only to himself and the pixies that float around his head... while ignoring the actual racing line... which is why he (rightfully) gets penalized for what he does.

He did have an appreciable overlap, and he didn't lift/brake because he thought Hamilton was going to give him room. Also, he tried his best to steer off but he misjudged it because the kerb pretty much negated any steering. It's a racing incident, nobody said it was Hamilton's fault.

Like I said also, Martin Brundle agrees. Just like every post I make here, there's always an F1 expert agreeing with me yet I'm still called a bias idiot. Even @Hun200kmh agreed with me on the Rosberg/Monaco thing. This is why I'm getting rather fed up of posting here.

It is curious that the most die-hard fans of Hamilton, and Lewis himself, showed to be so scandalized because Nico have applied the philosophy that they defend so strongly when speaking about, either Lewis, or his great idol, Ayrton Senna.

"... if you no longer go for a gap, that exists, you no longer a racing driver ..." could have been Rosberg's response over yesterdays accident.
And would be as legitimate as the one that Senna gave to Stewart in the famous interview.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!! This is what bothers me, the double standards.

I disagree that Hamilton's been clean since 2011 though. Many incidents come to mind.


edit-

Speak of the devil. He's here >_>

 

[Carlos]

Lewis is cognizant of this fact, which is why he can do what he does without penalty... as we discussed in excruciating length several races ago... because what he does is legal and accepted. It is impossible to penalize a driver for following the racing line while another driver is not alongside him. Otherwise you are telling people to roll over and play dead for each and every botched overtake.

It works pretty well in V8 SC series. And to be honest, if I were Hamilton, I'd give Rosberg some room. Hamilton was on the right side for the next corner anyway.

Yes, Hamilton has full right to take that line, but with all that right he didn't even finish the race.

 

[Nessy]

Nessy, you know what metaphor is, right? I'll give you an example. Driving like a "Douchebag" does not relate to the actual driving abilities of bags that i find in a shower, but with what Rosberg did. Although Hamilton can be blamed for doing the same on occasion, and that's what I guess BHRxRacer wants to say when he uses the gangster or boss metaphors.

Yes i have a basic understanding of metaphor, though thank you for the lesson.

Using metaphors like "gangster" to describe Hamiltons' driving style, i feel is not a good one.

 

[craigatm]

Who's accusing who of malice here?

Hamilton's been accusing Rosberg of having hit him deliberately, in case you hadn't noticed...

 

[Peasantslayer]

And Hamilton should've known full well Rosberg was going to cut back in at Les Combes

So by that logic Rosberg was wrong in the first incident, either both are in the wrong or neither so don't just pick out Hamilton. Bahrain was good hard racing but clean.

 

[jtv90069]

He did have an appreciable overlap, and he didn't lift/brake because he thought Hamilton was going to give him room. Also, he tried his best to steer off but he misjudged it because the kerb pretty much negated any steering. It's a racing incident, nobody said it was Hamilton's fault.

If Rosberg had sufficient overlap to have hamilton leave room, there would have been contact between Rosbergs front right wheel and Hamiltons Side pod, or at worst left rear wheel, not the very tip of Rosbegs wing clipping hamiltons left rear tyre. Vettel was further up than Rosberg on the previous lap and pulled out of it, the kerb was no issue for him.
The incident as it was, is less of an issue than Rosberg's apparent "decision" to loiter around the back of Hamiltons car and not avoid him. No one has a problem with his attempt to pass around the outside but that had obviously failed and no longer had enough overlap for the next corner, it was then his responsibility to avoid contact. A slight touch on the brakes, slot in behind and try again over the next 42 laps remaining in the race.

 

[FormulaKimball]

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3396/9432904/Rosberg-warns-of-lessons-learned
And perhaps now we know to what that smug smile portended...

I really don't see how people are entertaining the idea that Rosberg's dive bomb and tire cutting on Lewis constituted sufficient overlap to claim any right for space into the corner. Aside from the fact that he wasn't at all next to him BEFORE the braking zone and only established a front wing next to rear wheel, that corner is a pretty severe switchback, so going deeper to try and attempt an outside overtake has diminishing returns to the point that you have to abort and cut the corner altogether. If you not only have no overlap, but no angle of attack for the corner, you need to do what we saw Alonso do time and time again, let it go and set up a counterattack that gets a better exit by being on the racing line. Rosberg's move was more than DC's proverbial "ambitious", it was Racing 101 stupid, hopelessly impractical, desperate, and by most admissions by the team, reckless if not more or less deliberate. I might have put it down to screwing up the tucking back in, but he tried almost the same exact thing in the last chicane, an even more severe switchback, and got himself a nice flat spot that probably wrecked that stint.

I still give Rosberg the benefit of the doubt at Monaco, but I was shouting at the tv when he pulled this one. Not one bit of sympathy when he was booed - at the very least that was poor racecraft, buddy, and fans don't pay good money to see that.

Lots of "D'oh!" moments while watching the NBCSN broadcast - keep up, fellas would ya? They seemed pretty lost about the incident between Rosberg and Button (Rosberg clearly short shifts to let Button have the place back and they call it a "great overtake")... then at the end trying to play up Rosberg hunting down Daniel at "2 seconds a lap!" when he needed 2.5 or 3... just to catch up.

 

[niky]

He did have an appreciable overlap, and he didn't lift/brake because he thought Hamilton was going to give him room.

Just to be clear, are you talking about Maldonado on Hamilton, or Rosberg on Hamilton?

Also, he tried his best to steer off but he misjudged it because the kerb pretty much negated any steering. It's a racing incident, nobody said it was Hamilton's fault.

Oh, so you're talking about Maldonado then? Who conveniently forgot to brake, forgot to turn, jumped over the kerbs and had the right to expect Hamilton to leave him room?

Like I said also, Martin Brundle agrees. Just like every post I make here, there's always an F1 expert agreeing with me yet I'm still called a bias idiot.

Because you've made similar claims in the past, which have been shown to be incorrect. Like so:

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/7842979/alonso-sails-through-a-perfect-storm

Did he squeeze Maldonado off the track? No, he left the mandatory car's width in the braking zone and then if your opponent tries to go around the outside of a tight corner he's likely to run out of space, that's perfectly normal. Should Lewis have left more space for Maldonado? Absolutely yes, especially for him given their history together, but the layout of the track there means he couldn't run very far off line as a tight left-hander followed immediately. But the bottom line is that Maldonado speared at a sharp angle into the side of Hamilton's car having just recovered from fully off the race track. The throttle pedal works both ways, and this was a particularly stupid accident anyway because he was guaranteed to pass the McLaren any time soon. Apparently Williams had implored him on the radio not to take risks, and he is very lucky not to be carrying a heavy grid penalty to Silverstone.

TL,DR: Brundle says Lewis could have left room, but he didn't have much way of doing so because of the corner coming up... and says definitely Pastor's fault, and that he's lucky he didn't get a heavy penalty.

Hey... that's just like the last time I had to look up something you said somebody said and it turned out to be totally different!

Even @Hun200kmh agreed with me on the Rosberg/Monaco thing. This is why I'm getting rather fed up of posting here.

Who's talking about Monaco? Rosberg had a perfectly legitimate off in Monaco from pushing too hard, nothing like Michael Schumacher's Oscar-worthy "whoopsie" of a few years before.

If you're fed up, why do you still bother posting?

 

[Tom]

I've written a review of a few events that happened throughout the Belgian Grand Prix weekend, do take a gander.

http://f1today.net/en/news/weekend-...debut-mclarens-improvement-marussias-downfall

 

[mikeerfol]

I'm afraid I don't see why you're talking about the 2012 European GP in the 2014 Belgian GP thread..

 

[FormulaKimball]

I'm afraid I don't see why you're talking about the 2012 European GP in the 2014 Belgian GP thread..

It's a good illustration of why Rosberg's move never would have worked by showing a more extreme result of pushing too far in the same kind of corner There's "leaving space" and there's "this corner is not built to accommodate 2 cars side-by-side"...

 

[Tyger]

It's funny when people cite Senna and his "if I see a gap" thing. I loved the guy but it frequently wasn't cool when he tried to shoehorn his way past people and make contact. It's seen as a failing of his as much as a strength.

 

[RacingProdigy]

I'm afraid I don't see why you're talking about the 2012 European GP in the 2014 Belgian GP thread..

Just logged on to a ton of alerts, Now reading through thinking the same thing.

He does have a reputation for it, it's just that Hamilton fanboys are sweeping the internet now. Remember the "Hamilton's fault" running joke on the internet in 2011? Even before that.

Really dont want to be involved in this, But the way you have single handedly defended Maldonado so much over the last few pages, I'm more inclined to call you the fanboy.

Maldonado was at fault, The only time he turned left was trying to continue on after wrecking Hamilton.

As for Rosberg and Hamilton, Rosberg had a half a car up, was down to a wing up as they entered the corner. In my opinion going into successive corners like that Rosberg should have fallen into line. Its as simple as that. This was 100% avoidable. It was Lap 2, Why is he sticking his nose in there Lap 2. If he had DRS or atleast a good run it would be understandable, But not like that.

As Lewis said though he didnt make any erratic movements, He didnt act silly. He had control over the racing line

I was always told by my father, The overtaking car is responsible for making a clean pass. If you dont think you can pull it off clean, Fall into line. Other wise your driving like an asshole.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Don't know what the big deal is, it wasn't how you prove a point, this is how you prove a point

 

[HKS racer]

You're an asshole.

Yep, seems to be...

I apply for the usage of this word as much as I can without being banned.
Can I use it in my posts?

Don't know what the big deal is, it wasn't how you prove a point, this is how you prove a point

There you go.

GT6 The Real Online Lobby Simulator.

Who's talking about Monaco? Rosberg had a perfectly legitimate off in Monaco from pushing too hard

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

If anyone remembers the old Simpsons, there was an episode where Lisa told Bart to get out of her room. In response, Bart spun his arms forwards right at Lisa and said that if he hits her on the way out, it's her fault. Lisa, who usually would cede, says the same and goes forward with leg kicks.

It's a funny way to look at it. Rosberg is Lisa trying to play the aggressor and get his way through intimidation. The problem is that while Hamilton has been a constant pest, he hasn't really injured Rosberg. Here, Rosberg not only struck Hamilton, he sent him falling down the stairs.