- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
2014 Belgian Grand Prix
- Thread starter Azure Flare
- 975 comments
- 39,889 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Don't turn this into a scoreboard of who did what and when. The fact of the matter is that both Rosberg and Hamilton have demonstrated a ruthless streak, but where Hamilton is applauded for it, Rosberg is condemned, and the team is under public pressure to support Hamilton. But look at it from Rosberg's point of view - he's had the better season. Ignoring mechanical failures, Hamilton's problems have been a result of Hamilton's mistakes. Rosberg managed his brake problem in Canada; Hamilton didn't. Rosberg made the right call in qualifying at Silverstone; Hamilton didn't. Rosberg stayed on the track in qualifying for Austria; Hamilton didn't. And yet, when he makes a reasonable request to be let past in Hungary, Hamilton refuses, costing the team a potential one-two finish, and Rosberg is cast as the villain of the season.
I think Rosberg's point is that Mercedes have mismanaged their drivers. 2014 should have been a slam-dunk, and there was talk that they could win every race - but now, Ricciardo has three wins, and is zeroing in on a title bid of his own. And all of this coincided with Mercedes bowing to public pressure and backing Hamilton.
Hamilton has displayed the same ruthlessness as Rosberg on track. Whether he has shown more or less of it is irrelevant: either both drivers should be applauded for it, or both should be condemned for it. You can't have it both ways.
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- KCCO
Adrian Tambay (Audi DTM) retweeted this... Got a good laugh..
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I want to see racers race in the formula, whatever that is. We saw that last weekend.
Some fans want sanitised racing (but then complain that drivers don't overtake enough), some want to see them go all balls-and-glory.
I stand somewhere between the camps but admittedly nearer the latter....
Some fans want sanitised racing (but then complain that drivers don't overtake enough), some want to see them go all balls-and-glory.
I stand somewhere between the camps but admittedly nearer the latter....
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
This is exactly my point, it's a normal racing incident.
With the Hamilton fanboys being out in full force, I've only seen several down to earth comments on the incident. Most of them however are comments about how Rosberg supposedly wanted to take Hamilton out of the equation; nevermind that he would damage his own car in doing so. Which he did. And he lost a race in doing so. But because the Hamilton fans are so sure of his superiority, they think Rosberg has to resort to a bloody kamikaze mission every single time. Just don't mention the countless times that Hamilton himself has tried to drive others off the track because of course, he's a 🤬 angel!
In the end there's an obvious flaw in Lewis's claims that Nico admitted to hitting him on purpose. And that is that no driver in their right mind would admit to having maliciously hit another driver, so soon after the incident. But don't tell that to the Hamilton fans; logic just confuses them.
As sad as it is I'm not at all surprised to see next to each of these ridiculous anti-Rosberg comments on sites such as Twitter, a display picture of some vainglorious twit posing topless in a bathroom with a ridiculous fake tan and an iPhone in their bloody hand! Honestly I think these guys should stop watching F1 and go back to watching Jeremy Kyle, and talking about how the Earth is flat!
I'm not implying this is the case with Hamilton fans, but it's a trend I've noticed with the fanboys (I generally believe fans and fanboys are two very different things entirely).
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- 6,425
- KCCO
So.... As long of a sentence that was... Was that a dis that all people on twitter shouldn't watch F1?As sad as it is I'm not at all surprised to see next to each of these ridiculous anti-Rosberg comments on sites such as Twitter, a display picture of some vainglorious twit posing topless in a bathroom with a ridiculous fake tan and an iPhone in their bloody hand! Honestly I think these guys should stop watching F1 and go back to watching Jeremy Kyle, and talking about how the Earth is flat!
I'm with you as well... I don't want to see stuff like the unacceptable Peugeot and Audi Banter in the 2011 24 Hours of Le Mans, but I want to see people race for the top spot.
More or less, I agree mostly with Steve Matchett, that tires shouldn't be limited, fuel flow shouldn't be limited, etc... F1 should be where money is dumped into R&D, and the best technology races against the best of others. Not with limitations which teams have to find ways to maximize it all, and then be penalized for a legitimate piece of art..
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Lewis on Button, he actually apologized for that.
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Don't see Nico apologizing for nothing here.
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I've been seeing more anti-Hamilton ranting these past few days than anything else. At least here on this board, bringing up the "Hamilton fanboy, OMG!" argument is simply a strawman tactic to avoid facing the possibility that Nico done bad.
There was no controversy, really (I'd put it off as a stupid move, but completely a racing incident) until the post-race talk, where Nico admitted that he made the conscious decision to not back out. Ergo: he didn't accidentally hit Lewis because of poor racecraft. He accidentally hit Lewis because he decided to stick it where the sun don't shine and didn't care what the results would be.
I've been looking forward to Nico winning this championship, since he truly seems to be working hard for it, and I chortled when he started playing mind games back at Hamilton. Hell, I even gave praise for Canada, where he went off the road completely while defending:
http://www.topgear.com.ph/news/raci...e-recap-2014-canadian-grand-prix?ref=cxsearch
But acting like this? Sorry... not a fan of super-dickishness. No.
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Still, let them squabble like schoolchildren. If that gives Ricciardo the championship, so be it.
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Don't see Nico apologizing for nothing here.
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I've been seeing more anti-Hamilton ranting these past few days than anything else. At least here on this board, bringing up the "Hamilton fanboy, OMG!" argument is simply a strawman tactic to avoid facing the possibility that Nico done bad.
There was no controversy, really (I'd put it off as a stupid move, but completely a racing incident) until the post-race talk, where Nico admitted that he made the conscious decision to not back out. Ergo: he didn't accidentally hit Lewis because of poor racecraft. He accidentally hit Lewis because he decided to stick it where the sun don't shine and didn't care what the results would be.
I've been looking forward to Nico winning this championship, since he truly seems to be working hard for it, and I chortled when he started playing mind games back at Hamilton. Hell, I even gave praise for Canada, where he went off the road completely while defending:
http://www.topgear.com.ph/news/raci...e-recap-2014-canadian-grand-prix?ref=cxsearch
But acting like this? Sorry... not a fan of super-dickishness. No.
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Still, let them squabble like schoolchildren. If that gives Ricciardo the championship, so be it.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
It was about Maldonado.
@Famine too, take a look at this. If that's not a significant ****ing portion of your car I don't know what is.
also @niky you tried to pull this thing in the Senna discussion and I quoted Murray Walker word for word. Someone on commentary said it was a racing incident, I'm 99% sure it was Brundle. Perhaps he changed his mind after the race, but even in what you quoted I LOVE how you bolded only half a sentence. "He left him a car's width in the braking zone". Bold the latter part, no? Because CLEARLY he pushed him off mid-corner, not in the braking zone. He left no space, where I think he should have.
Because @Famine brought it up as an example and I disagreed that it was Maldonado's fault saying it's a racing incident (because both drivers had the chance to avoid it).
Here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/2014-belgian-grand-prix.315636/page-20#post-10011492
Of Maldonado? Tell me more about how it was Gutierrez' fault at Silverstone this season.
Wrong. PLAIN AND SIMPLE; WRONG!
So no, he turned left BEFORE the contact, not "only after".
He's sticking his nose in because that's what Hamilton would've done and gotten away with.
That's pretty much what I said in my first post, yet I got a ********* for it. Thanks.
Nope, not at all.
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- mustafur
I'm sorry but anyone who defends Maldonado on that move at Valenica has Brain damage, first of all Maldonado went off the track limits then used that overlap to stay next to Hamilton, regardless if Hamilton pushed him wide or not Maldonado should of lifted as soon as he went off track.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
That wasn't the discussion though. Malice or no malice, Alonso was the only person in the world to agree with me that day that it was Hamilton's fault more than Grosjean. guess he's just a bias Lewis hater like me
That's the point, I want YOU guys to make up your mind. Either Hamilton was wrong at Bahrain and Nico was wrong at Spa, or neither of them were wrong. You justified what Hamilton did at Bahrain which is just as bad as this one, yet you're all over Rosberg for this one.
Don't say something wrong then say "regardless". Maldonado didn't go off, he was pushed off despite being side by side. He later made a misjudgement of going back on track, when he realized Hamilton was going to cut back in again he tried to avoid it but it was too late because of the Kerb. I'm not defending him, I'm saying it's a shared mistake. Both of them were assholes. It wasn't just Maldonado.
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But thanks a lot for saying I have brain damage. Very nice.
- 9,401
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- mustafur
He wasn't pushed off, Hamilton didn't touch him, this my friend is called overlap.That wasn't the discussion though. Malice or no malice, Alonso was the only person in the world to agree with me that day that it was Hamilton's fault more than Grosjean. guess he's just a bias Lewis hater like me
That's the point, I want YOU guys to make up your mind. Either Hamilton was wrong at Bahrain and Nico was wrong at Spa, or neither of them were wrong. You justified what Hamilton did at Bahrain which is just as bad as this one, yet you're all over Rosberg for this one.
Don't say something wrong then say "regardless". Maldonado didn't go off, he was pushed off despite being side by side. He later made a misjudgement of going back on track, when he realized Hamilton was going to cut back in again he tried to avoid it but it was too late because of the Kerb. I'm not defending him, I'm saying it's a shared mistake. Both of them were assholes. It wasn't just Maldonado.
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But thanks a lot for saying I have brain damage. Very nice.
The only reason Maldonado didn't let go was because the run off allowed t
Him to be there otherwise he would of lifted off if he wanted to continue his race.
It's completely Maldonado's fault, and he even got a penalty for it if I remember.
Forget about what Hamilton did because it is absolutely meaningless the moment Maldonado tries to keep position by having 4 wheels off the track limit, he is not driving on race track at that point.
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@Famine too, take a look at this. If that's not a significant ****ing portion of your car I don't know what is.
also @niky you tried to pull this thing in the Senna discussion and I quoted Murray Walker word for word. Someone on commentary said it was a racing incident, I'm 99% sure it was Brundle. Perhaps he changed his mind after the race, but even in what you quoted I LOVE how you bolded only half a sentence. "He left him a car's width in the braking zone". Bold the latter part, no? Because CLEARLY he pushed him off mid-corner, not in the braking zone. He left no space, where I think he should have.
Let's be even clearer:
Maldonado got the apparent overlap by outbraking Hamilton coming in, but he took such an extreme angle and ended up so far off the apex that he was slower on exit. Hamilton, now in front, has control of the corner and the racing line. As discussed in the Rosberg v. Hamilton incident before, the guy in front has control of the corner, and is perfectly within his rights to hold the racing line. He is only not allowed by the rules to deviate from it to block the other guy.
I did no twisting of any sort. What Brundle said is what Brundle said. If you bring up testimony for your defense, make sure they'll speak in your defense. When you finally cited the exact Walker quote, I agreed with you about what he said. But if you keep making vague claims with no back-up, then this is what you get.
Ref. video, onboard... he turned right, towards Hamilton, then corrected left when he realized: Oh crap, that car that I failed to overtake is still there. Then he barged into him.
Racing incident? Arguably, yes. Very poor recognition of where other cars on the track are? Definitely.
And he would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.
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- 6,425
- KCCO
I'm sorry... But isn't Lewis acting a bit of a baby lately... I've only seen him whine in the news and I've gotten sick of him. He acts as if he is a pompous ambassador of F1, and a kiss-Arsche to Bernie (don't take that too literal.. That's not my point, rather why hasn't Bernie said anything about this obvious scuffle between the team?)
I've never liked him from the start, nor Rosberg, but Rosberg seems to be working for it more than Lewis, no matter the quali differences and grid starts and other non-imposing issues. If not, Lewis would be perfect, and apparently he's not..
Just making sure of that..
Why should a victim be penalized for a problem which never could've occurred?
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
Forced off. Better?
Yes, because the stewards are the most reliable people ever. If that's what we're going by, Nico didn't get a Penalty for Spa thus, not his fault.
Make up your minds.
Because he was forced off it.
He didn't take an extreme angle, he had enough width of the track to make it on the outside but Hamilton
Also no, the guy in front does not have control of the racing line anymore. ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THE SPACE!
Oh and yes he did correct to the left, which is what that guy says never happened. He said he kept turning right with no interruption until he speared Maldonado.
what meddling kids? He would've gotten away with it less if Hamilton hadn't been a ****ing wuss in relaying everything said in a private meeting to the media. Another scumbag move. Sutil was right.
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Come Monaco, and the incredibly childish sulking over the qualifying incident... I'd started to come around to the idea that Nico deserves the championship more. Because, yes, he works for it more, is more focused and less prone to childish antics.
That said: This one is definitely a childish antic.
I loved the start of the season. I love the fact that Lewis' inherent speed forced Nico to start digging deep and up his game. I love that Nico has finally learned to give it that 110% needed to pip a driver of Lewis' caliber in qualifying. I never rated him before. I do now!
And I love the contrast in race strategies, strengths and racecraft.
What I don't love is the whiny attitude Lewis takes to every problem and Nico's almost petulant defensiveness over issues like this.
Which is why: Honey Badger for WDC.
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- mustafur
@BHRxRacer ill make this clear for you.
Racing doesn't work as an eye for an eye(unless Nascar), what Hamilton did was probably considered harsh but Maldonado was instantly on the wrong when he had 4 wheels off, considering Hamilton didn't touch him no possible penalty can be given to Hamilton in this case, but passing someone using none of the designated race track can and will be, in basically every racing series on planet earth.
If Maldonado had kept two tyres within the track limits then it would of been a racing incident plain and simple, but because he didn't its his fault.
You can argue me all you want but these are BASIC racing rules.
Racing doesn't work as an eye for an eye(unless Nascar), what Hamilton did was probably considered harsh but Maldonado was instantly on the wrong when he had 4 wheels off, considering Hamilton didn't touch him no possible penalty can be given to Hamilton in this case, but passing someone using none of the designated race track can and will be, in basically every racing series on planet earth.
If Maldonado had kept two tyres within the track limits then it would of been a racing incident plain and simple, but because he didn't its his fault.
You can argue me all you want but these are BASIC racing rules.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
I wasn't justifying an eye for an eye. I'm saying if you're going to give Maldonado a penalty for rejoining the way he did, give Hamilton one as well for forcing him off like that. Also, in a situation where both drivers can easily avoid an incident, it's a racing incident. Hamilton could've avoided the crash and still maintained position.
It's not that you have to be consistently against Hamilton, you have to be consistent on what's a racing incident and what isn't. If you're saying Maldonado was at fault in Valencia, then Nico's at fault in Spa.
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In my opinion, motives/intents aside, they're both racing incidents and everybody needs to put the bias or hypocrisy aside.
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Try and look at it this way.
Realistically there will be no punishment for Nico (maybe a little fine that he won't feel), to do so - Mercedes would be shooting their selves in the foot, as Nico (ATM) is in the strongest championship position, and it's in their best interest that Mercedes clinch the title.. Lewis probably knows this, so has decided to tell the media what went down in the meeting, as he knows there will be no real punishment for Nico.
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- rickyboy123abc
Apart from his bad luck, I fear he is his own worst enemy in terms of championship hopes. One little thing goes wrong and he breaks down, almost child like. Bad luck is one thing, but the whole "heart on sleeve" stuff is getting pathetic to be honest. People keep saying he's the out right fastest guy on the grid on raw pace, and they may be right, but it goes to his head too much. The difference between good drivers and top drivers is probably 2 tenths per lap in the same car. I think Rosberg for all his antics is working the whole picture, where as Hamilton came into this season expecting to win based on his talent alone. Time will tell I guess.
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- mustafur
you might not mean it but what your saying is exactly that, like I said once you have 4 wheels off track you have zero case for making a move on someone next to you, even if they pushed you off(requesting a penalty for offending driver is realistically the only defence you have at that point). You will not find a racing series that would defend Maldonado over Hamilton on that one.
Now I'm sure if you have even read what I have been saying you could probably figure out why I'm saying this, rosbergs is a racing incident because it was a small tap and he approached the corner with a fair chance of an overtake, as soon as he lifted he didn't but it was marginal so it was a racing incident, he didn't have 4 wheels off the track though which is the case of the Maldonado incident.
Yes Maldonado had sufficient overlap and would have every right to be there IF he had 2 wheels within the line, but he didn't so his case for defence is now over.
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- rickyboy123abc
But what can they really do though. Their best bet is to wing it out and hope Rosberb and Hamilton can co-exist on track well enough to ensure the construtors championship is won by Mercedes and hope for a clean honest battle for the championship between the two. After all it is a business, and part of that business insists they keep both drivers happy, or at least on the same page.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
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For the last time, I'm not defending Maldonado. It was a mistake to rejoin the track like that thinking Hamilton or any aggressive driver would give him room. It was a bigger mistake not to consider there's a kerb on the reentry that will negate any steering. HOWEVER, it was still avoidable by Hamilton AND he's the one that started it in the first place. Racing incident.
OHHH, and Maldonado had a better chance to overtake than Nico did. Watch the video again. It's not his fault all 4 wheels were off, it was either that or Hamilton Kobayashi's him off. He did have all 4 wheels alongside Hamilton at a certain point, here:
Hamilton KEPT trying to push him off. Maldonado could've easily made the corner even before that frame, but Hamilton insisted on pushing off. There you go, sufficient overlap (pretty much side by side) and all 4 wheels on track. What more do you want?
Who, the team? Ha! If only Ross Brawn still there...
I think it's too late now. They'll have to hand the WDC to one of their drivers and deal with the outrage or else they'll lose it to grinface.
PS They haven't kept Rosberg happy at all which is why he wanted to prove a point.
Read my first post. He's been a professional for far too long and the only thing that kept him doing it was the impression that the team respects it. When the team embraced Hamilton's unprofessionalism and selfishness at Hungary, it's basically a middle finger to Rosberg. At that point, it's not an "excuse" for Nico anymore to be unprofessional, it's a motive.
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Again, driver in front. Owns the corner. It is upon the overtaking driver to ensure the safety of both.
We've discussed this before. And I'd like to remind you:
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8683/fia.html
You can't squeeze people off the track on the straights or braking zones. That is what is explicitly stated.
You can't move off the racing line to defend in a corner, and can't move back once you have.
But you can hold the racing line in a corner.
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Was it hard racing? Definitely. Was it illegal? No.
Is it illegal to cut corners and punt people off?
Why yes, yes it is. Which is why Brundle stated that Pastor was lucky on avoiding the grid penalty.
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- mustafur
@BHRxRacer
Look it's clearly obvious your not going to back down from your illogical fallacy so I'm not going to argue against you, rules are rules.
When you understand how racing works then you will understand.
Look it's clearly obvious your not going to back down from your illogical fallacy so I'm not going to argue against you, rules are rules.
When you understand how racing works then you will understand.
