- 1,493
- White House, Tennessee
- tbwhhs
The first thing I thought when I heard this was this is going to be like TRAC, the series that tried to be a rival to NASCAR but never got off the ground.
2014 United Sports Car Championship
- Thread starter Earth
- 6,133 comments
- 266,079 views
The first thing I thought when I heard this was this is going to be like TRAC, the series that tried to be a rival to NASCAR but never got off the ground.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
Im still curious what Dyson and Pickett are going to do. Maybe this?
Graham Goodwin usually gets stuff right the first time, so I'll be interested to see what happens later down the road
Graham Goodwin usually gets stuff right the first time, so I'll be interested to see what happens later down the road
- 35,337
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Chris Dyson says he is not part of this so I think we can rule him out. Somehow I doubt Greg Pickett would want any part of that.
- 35,337
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Wait, the same Duncan Dayton that couldn't even keep his Highcroft Racing team going IN P1? If its true, then he's the last guy that should have any part in it
Can't really bring myself to see Porsche doing so, mostly because they already have a crap load of race cars they seel via that redundent GTC class so exactly what need would they have for this?
And yes, again they sorta need a significant American race to really do anything, which they still don't have.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
As opposed to DPs which are old, don't look great and are largely irrelevant.
Certainly the top prototype formula needs a shake-up, not just in America but internationally. I think Lola and Pescarolo's demise is a sign of that.
I wonder if we will ever see LMP replaced with a higher GT class? It just seems like a much better format especially for manufacturers but also for privateers.
- 9,055
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
Lola and Pescarolo were just chewed up by the likes of Audi and Peugeot.
The problem with top flight racing is that manufacturers inevitably find ways to drive costs up so high that in order to realistically beat them, you either have to be their factory team, a customer team with deep pockets, or a privateer with very very deep pockets.
They can keep making rules to draw everyone on level (not really) but the engineering department will always find exploits that will eventually increase the costs of staying competitive.
What's irritating is that Audi Peugeot and Toyota can make these cars, but only race it for themselves. Porsche in the Group C days at least made customer models. It is that type of business that the FIA and ACO have to encourage. Lola and HPD are fighting the good fight, but unfortunately are always the minnows in Le Mans.
The problem with top flight racing is that manufacturers inevitably find ways to drive costs up so high that in order to realistically beat them, you either have to be their factory team, a customer team with deep pockets, or a privateer with very very deep pockets.
They can keep making rules to draw everyone on level (not really) but the engineering department will always find exploits that will eventually increase the costs of staying competitive.
What's irritating is that Audi Peugeot and Toyota can make these cars, but only race it for themselves. Porsche in the Group C days at least made customer models. It is that type of business that the FIA and ACO have to encourage. Lola and HPD are fighting the good fight, but unfortunately are always the minnows in Le Mans.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Hence why I say a higher GT class might be the way forward? I see the problem is with aerodynamics - there is a lot to gain by spending enormous amounts of money in aero development and this is always where the manufacturers can make their gains.
In GT, aero is less of a problem and the cars are closer. There are more manufacturers involved and more manufacturers willing to sell customer cars. Now thats the biggest point - in LMP customer cars are almost non-existant. It means privateers have to rely on chassis suppliers/designers like Lola, Wirth Research, Pescarolo, Oreca, Dome and Dallara - which is a severe handicap when the chassis is such a huge decider on performance.
Maybe the FIA/ACO should mandate that manufacturers have to offer customer cars that are run independently? Maybe that would put some off or maybe it would just mean there would be de facto factory backed teams. But there is surely more that could be done to help privateers stand a better chance?
In GT, aero is less of a problem and the cars are closer. There are more manufacturers involved and more manufacturers willing to sell customer cars. Now thats the biggest point - in LMP customer cars are almost non-existant. It means privateers have to rely on chassis suppliers/designers like Lola, Wirth Research, Pescarolo, Oreca, Dome and Dallara - which is a severe handicap when the chassis is such a huge decider on performance.
Maybe the FIA/ACO should mandate that manufacturers have to offer customer cars that are run independently? Maybe that would put some off or maybe it would just mean there would be de facto factory backed teams. But there is surely more that could be done to help privateers stand a better chance?
- 9,055
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
I personally think a higher GT class will have more relevance to the road car than an all out LMP.
- 35,337
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I see a recurring theme there.
Strangely, Audi did used to sell there cars to the privateers, but seemed to stop after the Audi R10 TDI. Peugeot seemingly only willing did so with Oreca as it seemed Pescarolo only got one just so he'd shut up about the diesels.
- 6,116
- Texas
The thing about the LMP1 class is that it is, to woefully over-summarize the issue, an unlimited class. Last I checked, there were few-to-no restrictions aside from the safety aspects, and maybe more importantly is un-capped. LMP2 I believe has a cost cap as well as actual restrictions.
Audi sell R18s? The poles will switch, the seas turn red, Ayrton Senna will rise from the grave, and I'll be elected US President before anyone in association with Audi, or Peugeot, or Toyota even concieve that thought.
As for GT, does anyone remember the ALMS GT1 class? More to the point, what happened to it? For those who dont, the class had been largely dominated by Corvette Racing for years, but other were still fighting. Around the time the C6.R was introduced, Aston Martin came in with the DB9R, and soon after it was either Corvette or Aston Martin winning, no one else had a shot. Teams migrated to GT2, and eventually GT1 was Corvette vs. Aston Martin, and as AM was throwing in the towel, Corvette re-engineered the C6.R to meet GT2 regulations.
Now note that I AM NOT AN EXPERT! This is how I remember it all.
Audi sell R18s? The poles will switch, the seas turn red, Ayrton Senna will rise from the grave, and I'll be elected US President before anyone in association with Audi, or Peugeot, or Toyota even concieve that thought.
As for GT, does anyone remember the ALMS GT1 class? More to the point, what happened to it? For those who dont, the class had been largely dominated by Corvette Racing for years, but other were still fighting. Around the time the C6.R was introduced, Aston Martin came in with the DB9R, and soon after it was either Corvette or Aston Martin winning, no one else had a shot. Teams migrated to GT2, and eventually GT1 was Corvette vs. Aston Martin, and as AM was throwing in the towel, Corvette re-engineered the C6.R to meet GT2 regulations.
Now note that I AM NOT AN EXPERT! This is how I remember it all.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Ardius
Irrelevant how? They are slower on the stop watch, but they are a better race to watch. Plus, they are dirt cheap compared to LMP1 which makes DP a more practical approach. DP was never designed to be cutting edge. Remember, imsa gtp cars were made of the same chassis material as the DP. Those were the pinnacle of sports car racing before the manufacturers turned it into a spending war which ironically happened with LMP. History repeats itself...
- 3,321
- United States
- GTP_Sam48
- 26,910
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
In the past, I was mostly critical of the Daytona Prototype. But now that I think of it, P1's loss will CERTAINLY be the Daytona Prototypes' gain. The Prototype-1 class has exemplified the most powerful and most capable of racing machines in all of sportscar racing. The DPs may be a weaker formula compared to the ultra-sophisticated P1 machines, but I am certain that a good deal of measures will be taken to make the DPs the absolute finest machines in the USCR ranks. Part of me kind of wishes they'd be as capable (but not overly as powerful) as the old GTP race cars or like the Group C sportscars of back in the day.
This is just a weird stance I've taken on Daytona Prototypes now that the DPs will likely be the premier racing cars of this series. And if you think about it, the Daytona Prototypes defined the top tier of racing in Grand-Am; now, they'll be the top tier of the USCR. It does seem funny to make the Daytona Prototypes to be faster than a P2 car. Either upgrade the DPs or downgrade the P2s.
I did a little research. I wanted to do lap time research on tracks that both Grand-Am's Daytona Prototypes and ALMS' P2 class have raced at. So I chose Laguna Seca. Last year, the Spirit of Daytona team won pole at Laguna Seca with a time of 1:21.042. The pole time in Prototype-2 for last year's ALMS race at Laguna Seca was 1:19.698, set by Dempsey Racing. So you have about a (rough math estimate) 1.75 second difference. You're going to have to really boost a number of performance figures if you're trying to make the DPs the premier class. Either that, or maybe the Prototype class be about BOTH DP and the P2 cars (and even DeltaWing) compete for the outright win in every race.
Just to say one more time... as much as I love the P1 cars that we've seen at Sebring this past weekend, part of me says I won't exactly miss seeing P1 cars in the USA with the USCR.
[UPDATE] So DP and P2 could be made equal so both can be compete for the win (and even if the DeltaWing somehow pull an upset in the Prototype ranks)? I typed up this comment before learning of what Sam48 typed up before I eventually came up with this one.
This is just a weird stance I've taken on Daytona Prototypes now that the DPs will likely be the premier racing cars of this series. And if you think about it, the Daytona Prototypes defined the top tier of racing in Grand-Am; now, they'll be the top tier of the USCR. It does seem funny to make the Daytona Prototypes to be faster than a P2 car. Either upgrade the DPs or downgrade the P2s.
I did a little research. I wanted to do lap time research on tracks that both Grand-Am's Daytona Prototypes and ALMS' P2 class have raced at. So I chose Laguna Seca. Last year, the Spirit of Daytona team won pole at Laguna Seca with a time of 1:21.042. The pole time in Prototype-2 for last year's ALMS race at Laguna Seca was 1:19.698, set by Dempsey Racing. So you have about a (rough math estimate) 1.75 second difference. You're going to have to really boost a number of performance figures if you're trying to make the DPs the premier class. Either that, or maybe the Prototype class be about BOTH DP and the P2 cars (and even DeltaWing) compete for the outright win in every race.
Just to say one more time... as much as I love the P1 cars that we've seen at Sebring this past weekend, part of me says I won't exactly miss seeing P1 cars in the USA with the USCR.
[UPDATE] So DP and P2 could be made equal so both can be compete for the win (and even if the DeltaWing somehow pull an upset in the Prototype ranks)? I typed up this comment before learning of what Sam48 typed up before I eventually came up with this one.
Last edited:
- 1,680
- Great White North
- I_powerslide
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Mac K
No, they're not. This isn't the NASCER (north american sports car endurance racing) series
It would have way more rovals for next years schedule if nascar was making decisions.@aaror: that's the problem with LMP2 and lmpc now. Both need more power imo since gtlm is staying. I'm in favor of 600 horsepower for the P class. No aids except maybe pc because mandatory pro am.
- 35,337
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Some interesting news I just caught wind of:
Oreca Eyeing increased American Presence
8Star to run second DP, Expands to PC
Oreca Eyeing increased American Presence
8Star to run second DP, Expands to PC
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Sam48
Nope. Dale jr. didn't make the cut
Enzo Potoliccio is fielding a second corvette DP in the USCR next season. It will debut late this season with multiple drivers driving. This is all per Enzo himself. He also will field two pc entries.
Edit: racecar has the link.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
- 1,410
- Albuquerque, NM
- Frizbe
- Darth Frizbe
So I got bored tonight and decided to map out the tracks the two series visited in the last two seasons. Here are my results: Google Maps Blue are Grand-Am, yellow are ALMS and green are where both series ran.
Interesting to see how many races are held on the east coast, I knew out here in the west we didn't have a lot but damn. Makes me really hope they bring one back to Miller, if for no other reason than to give us fans out here another option for an easy to get to live race.
Interesting to see how many races are held on the east coast, I knew out here in the west we didn't have a lot but damn. Makes me really hope they bring one back to Miller, if for no other reason than to give us fans out here another option for an easy to get to live race.
