2016 Pirelli Spanish Grand Prix

Me, too - and I'm not even 30 years old.

Same. 1996 Australian GP was the first race I watched. I gravitated to the British driver winning in the British car (these things being important when you're 9) and have had a soft spot for Williams ever since.

(Oh yeah, Spanish GP something something)
 
Roo
Same. 1996 Australian GP was the first race I watched.
I can't remember the first one I watched. I used to watch them with my dad when I was little; he would tape them and watch them the next day. But I didn't really get into it until late 1995.
 
Some cynical journos are suggesting that Ocon's replacement by Wehrlein in testing is an anti-Hamiton double-whammy; not only is Hamilton (and I guess Rosburg) reminded that he's not the only fish in the pond but he's now unable to test the car at Silverstone under the new driver rules.

That said, he didn't test in either of the in-season 2015 tests and that turned out okay.
 
I get this, but F1 is supposed to be cutting edge. Grippy, powerful cars are cutting edge so that's where F1 is.

I know the cars of yesteryear are ones that are fond in all of our memories but it isn't 1980. It's 2016.

Then how come active aero, blown aero, and flexible aero are banned?

Why are the cars still open wheel, open cockpit?

Why are we taking control away from the pit wall and the computers?

Why are the tires designed to degrade?

Why are ABS, TCS, Stability Control, and Active Suspension banned?

Why are they still piloted by a talking monkey in a jump suit?

We have all of the above to keep F1 entertaining, and keep it a sport, as opposed to an extemely expensive R&D project. With that in mind, I personally have no issue accepting cars which slide around more. Sure it's not the most advanced tech, but to me, it's more entertaining.

To me, F1 is like a 21st century bi-plane. Sure individual aspect might be advanced, but the concept as a whole is quite crude.


You would also need to go back to cross ply tires to achieve that (much greater grip retention at higher slip angles) which are much more prone to failure at speed and would result in far more dangerous accidents.

No ta.
Thats a good point, but you wouldn't have to go back to 1960s tire technology. I'm just guessing, but I'm sure someone could come up with a tire which retained more grip while slipping, yet was safer. If Pirelli can design tires made of chocolate, caramel, and wafer, which are made to degrade, I'm sure they can come up with a safer, modern version of a 1960s tire which is designed to allow for some slip angle.
 
First race I remember watching was 1996 Australian GP, but I probably watched a few races before that but I don't remember.
 
First race I can definitely remember watching was Jerez 1997, watching Jaque win the championship. I definitely watched several before that, but that's the one that is the first specific race I can remember.
 
I get this, but F1 is supposed to be cutting edge. Grippy, powerful cars are cutting edge so that's where F1 is.

I know the cars of yesteryear are ones that are fond in all of our memories but it isn't 1980. It's 2016.
Oh god, not another "It's currentyear" argument...

If anything, wouldn't increased aero dependance be regression considering it makes racing worse than before? NASCAR is where proper progression currently takes place, they were smart enough to ditch crappy aero packages no matter how modern and 'cutting edge' (?) they were.
 
NASCAR is at a technological standstill and they choose to be to keep costs in check, and because you don't have to fix what isn't broken.

F1 cars have been very aero dependent and hard to overtake in for decades now. Now all of a sudden people are complaining about the current state as if it was never this bad, when it was probably far worse pre 2009.

F1 has always been a 'boring' sport, in that it's not constant action but more watching millions of dollars of hard work and brilliant engineering come together, or not. It has never been nonstop passing or excitement, and it shouldn't lose the things that have made it what it is just to please keyboard warriors.
 
NASCAR is at a technological standstill and they choose to be to keep costs in check, and because you don't have to fix what isn't broken.

F1 cars have been very aero dependent and hard to overtake in for decades now. Now all of a sudden people are complaining about the current state as if it was never this bad, when it was probably far worse pre 2009.

F1 has always been a 'boring' sport, in that it's not constant action but more watching millions of dollars of hard work and brilliant engineering come together, or not. It has never been nonstop passing or excitement, and it shouldn't lose the things that have made it what it is just to please keyboard warriors.
So people sharing their opinions which happen to be different than your's are keyboard warriors? Cool 👍:rolleyes:
 
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No, my issue here is that there is endless bickering about how ruined F1 is because the aero dependency makes overtaking infrequent, as if F1 hasn't been this way for about 40 years now. It's never been a sport full of overtaking and action so why is it only being complained about so much now as if it isnt as good as its been in ages currently?
 
It's not that it's being complained about more, It just seems that way now because of the internet, anyone and everyone can voice their opinion and they do, So your more likely to come across it now. Especially in an thread about Formula 1.
I've personally been complaining about the lack of overtaking as long as I've been watching F1.

It's certainly better now than it was when Fernando was parked up front in the Renault. But in my opinion, Pre 1985 the overtaking was better in the fact that if 2 cars were equal it became a drivers battle the battle was not nearly as affected by aerodynamics meaning the second driver can set up a pass. Look at the 1979 French Grand Prix for a beautiful example. Where as now with all the aero dependence even if the 2 cars are equal as long as the first driver does not make a mistake the second driver can not do anything because it is impossible to pass.

I'm not saying no more wings, But I think the downforce should be reduced, Or add unreal amounts of power to make things interesting again.

As @Peter. said watching F1 is watching Millions of Dollars and Brilliant Engineering come together.

So they should reduce the sizes of all the wings so we can watch Millions of Dollars and Brilliant Engineering come together and maybe have some good overtaking too.

Reduce the sizes of the wings, Put all the teams in a box with the aero so they have to put more emphasis on mechanical grip. Then the overtaking would be better and to some the races a little more exciting.

Again though this is just the opinion of what is in your words a Keyboard Warrior.
 
No, my issue here is that there is endless bickering about how ruined F1 is because the aero dependency makes overtaking infrequent, as if F1 hasn't been this way for about 40 years now. It's never been a sport full of overtaking and action so why is it only being complained about so much now as if it isnt as good as its been in ages currently?
First off, the reason "it's been that way for 40 years" is not really a valid reason to keep things as they are, in any human endeavour - in my opinion. That's taking the approach that things are as good as they will ever get, and there is no room for improvement.

Second, you don't really have anything to indicate that there is more complaining today than there was in the past. Certainly there is more access to it, as none of us were communicating with each other on the Internet back in 1984, but that doesn't mean that people weren't complaining back then. Before the Internet, forums, blogs, and social media, the only opinions we had access to were select F1 insiders and journalists - people who might actually be to close to the sport to be in touch with what the average fan is looking for. Certainly F1 did their huge fan survey back in I think 2008, and there was definitely a request to see more overtaking, so I don't think you're right in saying that "it's just today that people are complaining", as the survey would indicate that complaint is almost 10 years old or more.

Third, none of that is a reason to flex you to be an e-thug, going around calling people keyboard warriors because they have an opinion different than yours.
 
If you interpreted my post as having a condescending tone then know that it was not my intention.

Overtaking being difficult has been a part of F1 for a long time now, perhaps mainly as a side effect of the aero dependency, but it's been a part of the challenge. Quality over quantity, you could say. Taking that away takes away some of the novelty of an overtake. The struggle to keep up with a car you're trying to pass, timing of when to get into the turbulent air and when to back off, and whatnot are parts of the show. I believe that right now we have a good balance of quality and quantity, even though I don't particulsrly like bubblegum tyres or the occasions where DRS makes things too easy.

The point I'm trying to make is just that it's currently fine, desire the nonstop complaining, and that people need to look back even just a decade ago to how bad it can really be. Too much complaining about it and then passing gets too easy and we lose the intensity of a battle. To some extent we may have already lost that. Think about Schumacher chasing Alonso in the closing laps of Turkey 2006. Would that have been as interesting of a battle of instead of edging closer and closer in the final laps he simply flew past with DRS several laps earlier and won?
 
If you interpreted my post as having a condescending tone then know that it was not my intention.

Overtaking being difficult has been a part of F1 for a long time now, perhaps mainly as a side effect of the aero dependency, but it's been a part of the challenge. Quality over quantity, you could say. Taking that away takes away some of the novelty of an overtake. The struggle to keep up with a car you're trying to pass, timing of when to get into the turbulent air and when to back off, and whatnot are parts of the show. I believe that right now we have a good balance of quality and quantity, even though I don't particulsrly like bubblegum tyres or the occasions where DRS makes things too easy.

The point I'm trying to make is just that it's currently fine, desire the nonstop complaining, and that people need to look back even just a decade ago to how bad it can really be. Too much complaining about it and then passing gets too easy and we lose the intensity of a battle. To some extent we may have already lost that. Think about Schumacher chasing Alonso in the closing laps of Turkey 2006. Would that have been as interesting of a battle of instead of edging closer and closer in the final laps he simply flew past with DRS several laps earlier and won?
I agree that quality over quantity is the correct approach for overtaking, but I don't think you need turbulent air to achieve that. The guys in the 50s and 60d weren't exactly swapping positions like Pokemon cards.

Also, as pointed put earlier in either this thread, or one of the other F1 threads, WEC cars currently produce more downforce than an F1 car, yet they don't have nearly as much trouble following closely, in traffic. So less downforce, or more downforce, I think it's fair to say there are better ways to skin the cat than the current approach in F1.

My issue with most of the overtaking in F1 right now is that it is very difficult to get withing attacking range (about 1.5 seconds), but then once you are within that range, the overtake itself is very simple because of DRS or differences in tire wear.

A defending driver doesn't really have to defend thier position with car placement, they just have to follow the racing line and create dirty air. On the straights, the overspeed due to DRS is usually so great that a defensive move is futile. That's not the case on all tracks, but I think it's fair to say that happens on most tracks.

For some perspective on the complaining, I can think of 2 videos I came across a while back while on a YouTube rampage.

One video was of a quirky British journalist, in Monaco, presenting various opinions on the introduction of wings in F1. Some were for it, as the data showed it produced faster lap times. Others were against it, as they felt it would reduce the ability to race closely, and would make the cars much more fragile, which would take away from the show. The alternative at the time was to pursue AWD technology for enhanced mechanical grip. Of course, that didn't end up happening, and now we are where we are.

The second video I'm thinking of was a race broadcast, can't remember what race, but James Hunt was doing colour commentary, and went off on a rant about how F1 needs to forget about being cutting edge technology, forget about having roadcar relevance, and focus purely on being entertainment and a sport. Certainly you wouldn't label James Hunt a keyboard warrior?

To me, that just goes to show that there has always been very strong debate about what F1 should and should not be - but like what's been mentioned already, today we just have more access to more opinions, so perhaps the complaining seems more overwhelming. However that does not mean that it just started in the last couple of years.
 
@twitcher although WEC cars might be able to produce more downforce at equivalent speeds, I doubt they go the same speeds around the corner so will probably produce less downforce and turbulent air mid corner.
 
First F1 race I remember watching was either Monaco 1999 or Monaco 2001. Not sure, but I remember it was Monaco, and that Schumacher won for Ferrari. Didn't really care much about it until 2006, and then I followed it closely until 2011. After that I stopped caring as much and have taken more of a passing interest, honestly in large part because of the whole Sky Sports thing.
 
One video was of a quirky British journalist, in Monaco, presenting various opinions on the introduction of wings in F1. Some were for it, as the data showed it produced faster lap times. Others were against it, as they felt it would reduce the ability to race closely, and would make the cars much more fragile, which would take away from the show. The alternative at the time was to pursue AWD technology for enhanced mechanical grip. Of course, that didn't end up happening, and now we are where we are.

The second video I'm thinking of was a race broadcast, can't remember what race, but James Hunt was doing colour commentary, and went off on a rant about how F1 needs to forget about being cutting edge technology, forget about having roadcar relevance, and focus purely on being entertainment and a sport. Certainly you wouldn't label James Hunt a keyboard warrior?

Interesting and relevant. Might be good to see these again.

As power-to-weight ratio got serious starting in the sixties, both in F1 and in Can-Am, the cars got increasingly scarier to drive, accidents became more extreme, and it took brave drivers to go near and beyond the limits. ALL the cars wanted to lift at high speeds - front, rear, or both. Spoilers were the first effective solution, and are still preferred today in NASCAR.


Merrill Faulk # 64 1964 Burnett MkII
merrill-faulk-64-1964-burnett-mkii-3424.jpg


Merrill Faulk # 64 1964 Burnett MkII
merrill-faulk-64-1964-burnett-mkii-3466.jpg
 
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Interesting and relevant. Might be good to see these again.

As power-to-weight ratio got serious starting in the sixties, both in F1 and in Can-Am, the cars got increasingly scarier to drive, accidents became more extreme, and it took brave drivers to go near and beyond the limits. ALL the cars wanted to lift at high speeds - front, rear, or both. Spoilers were the first effective solution, and are still preferred today in NASCAR.


Merrill Faulk # 64 1964 Burnett MkII
merrill-faulk-64-1964-burnett-mkii-3424.jpg


Merrill Faulk # 64 1964 Burnett MkII
merrill-faulk-64-1964-burnett-mkii-3466.jpg

Here's the video with buddy talking about the aero. Monaco, 1969. The relevant part starts at 11:00 minutes into the video. I was slightly mistaken, he doesn't mention anything about the cars racing close, but does mention attrition. I think there's another video where the cars not racing close (not because of dirty air, but fear of knocking each others wings off) is talked about.



I'll see if I can find the James Hunt one too

Edit: :lol: :lol: :lol: this isn't the one I was thinking of, but here's James Hunt complaining about 2 cars dominating the field :lol:
 
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Here's the video with buddy talking about the aero. Monaco, 1969. The relevant part starts at 11:00 minutes into the video. I was slightly mistaken, he doesn't mention anything about the cars racing close, but does mention attrition. I think there's another video where the cars not racing close (not because of dirty air, but fear of knocking each others wings off) is talked about.



I'll see if I can find the James Hunt one too

Edit: :lol: :lol: :lol: this isn't the one I was thinking of, but here's James Hunt complaining about 2 cars dominating the field :lol:

In the first video, it seems Graham Hill is virtually unique in taking the modern line down into Mirabeau. :bowdown:
 
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