2016 Rolex Australian Grand Prix
- Thread starter SVT Cobra GT
- 782 comments
- 31,432 views
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Oh look a negative comment from you, for a driver you stated you didn't like.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,754
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
He's no different to Pastor Maldonado.
Both spent four years in GP2.
Both won the GP2 title the year after an exodus of the top drivers.
Both secured a top GP2 seat by virtue of money rather than talent.
The year before their GP2 titles, they got thrashed by low-rated drivers; Petrov beat Maldonado, while Ericsson beat Palmer. They also got flattened by highly-rated drivers; Maldonado by Hülkenberg and Grosjean, and Palmer by Nasr.
I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest Jolyon Palmer should be in Formula One. Sure, he has a GP2 title ... but so do Maldonado, Valsecchi and Leimer.
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
So, a good driver who succumbed to clumsiness? And you're judging this off the back of one race, where he demonstrated superb racecraft and got a solid finish?
Today's race was the evidence. I haven't seen a driver look more comfortable and collected in a long time.
- 4,235
- UK
That's given me a great idea to boost the state of F1. Start all the lower tier teams with loads of points, so that the top tier have to make up the ground.Whelp! Pack it up everyone, season's over!
What a world it must be if those standings were true.
I'm gonna pitch my idea to Bernie.
Wait wait wait.
Just because two people have similar career trajectories, it automatically makes sense to label them as essentially the same person. Right then.
- 4,235
- UK
Random F1.. Has a ring to it.
Edit.
Actually, scratch that, should still be called F1. But instead we can have the F1 randomiser wheel (bit like the wheel of fortune), that will be spun by a member of the public, prior to race and quali.
Yep, I'm expecting an attache case bursting at the seems with money, from Bernie.
Edit.
Actually, scratch that, should still be called F1. But instead we can have the F1 randomiser wheel (bit like the wheel of fortune), that will be spun by a member of the public, prior to race and quali.
Yep, I'm expecting an attache case bursting at the seems with money, from Bernie.
Last edited:
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
No, a driver who had no business being in the sport in the first place, and who only got there through oil money or a rich daddy.
Look, I'm open to Palmer doing a Kobayashi and impressing everyone. But the reception that he has gotten in no way matches what he is deserving of. This is a guy who finished eleventh on début, and yet Sky spent more time talking to him than they did Nico Rosberg, Lewis Hamilton or Romain Grosjean.
- 6,290
- Washington State
- OutlawQuadrant
A few quick thoughts:
- Track position was so important, especially with the red flag. How I wish F1 as a whole could change their philosophy and make dramatic reductions in downforce. The less one has, the less you'll lose when tracking behind someone.
- It floated in the back of my head the start issues Mercedes had last year and whether we see it happen again today given the clutch rule changes. Don't know if there is any connection at all but what unfolded didn't really surprise me.
- I don't know what the deal was with Gutierrez. He avoided the question about his side during the interview. Lack of situational awareness, maybe?
- Circumstances may have put Grosjean in a favorable position but he stayed safely in his spot for the duration. The incident with Gutierrez does hamper the day somewhat but confidence is an infectious thing. They may end up not scoring another point the rest of the season but now they have confidence they're not Manor or last year's McLaren. Driver errors notwithstanding, they're not an embarrassment.
- An oil refinery could explode in a massive fireball and Kimi would just walk away from it, calmly telling someone it's getting a little warm.
- Hamilton is quite lucky to earn 2nd after everything that happened up to the red flag. Maybe that was why he was in a better mood, moreso because he kept Vettel behind him and may see him as a bigger threat than Rosberg.
- Max was rather clumsy today. His emotions got the better of him.
- Poor McLaren. Alonso has that big incident while Button got lapped right at the end.
- Give me at least two more races before determining who's really got what. This race was rather unusual from the very beginning, thanks to that "wonderful" new qualifying format
- Track position was so important, especially with the red flag. How I wish F1 as a whole could change their philosophy and make dramatic reductions in downforce. The less one has, the less you'll lose when tracking behind someone.
- It floated in the back of my head the start issues Mercedes had last year and whether we see it happen again today given the clutch rule changes. Don't know if there is any connection at all but what unfolded didn't really surprise me.
- I don't know what the deal was with Gutierrez. He avoided the question about his side during the interview. Lack of situational awareness, maybe?
- Circumstances may have put Grosjean in a favorable position but he stayed safely in his spot for the duration. The incident with Gutierrez does hamper the day somewhat but confidence is an infectious thing. They may end up not scoring another point the rest of the season but now they have confidence they're not Manor or last year's McLaren. Driver errors notwithstanding, they're not an embarrassment.
- An oil refinery could explode in a massive fireball and Kimi would just walk away from it, calmly telling someone it's getting a little warm.
- Hamilton is quite lucky to earn 2nd after everything that happened up to the red flag. Maybe that was why he was in a better mood, moreso because he kept Vettel behind him and may see him as a bigger threat than Rosberg.
- Max was rather clumsy today. His emotions got the better of him.
- Poor McLaren. Alonso has that big incident while Button got lapped right at the end.
- Give me at least two more races before determining who's really got what. This race was rather unusual from the very beginning, thanks to that "wonderful" new qualifying format
- 1,433
- Northern Ireland
Not sure you are, considering he arguably did impress today with a very solid drive (and out-qualifying his teammate yesterday), and you haven't acknowledged it in the slightest.......
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
Motorsport is only driven by money. Everyone gets to the top through some kind of fortune, it's just some have exceptional talent that helps them on the way.
There was an interesting article written by Joseph Quagraine last week, that tried to pitch the difference between talent and skill in racing. Talent is something that means you can vault up the racing ladder quickly - it's your natural ability, and you won't need to work overtime to achieve results. Skill is something that is learned through practice, and if you're devoted enough, you can develop the skill that makes up for the slight deficit in talent. Palmer is the latter. I don't care how long he spent in GP2 - what matters is he honed his craft, and he came out of it as a very experienced, very dependable driver. Whatever talent he may have lacked at the start of his career, or still lacks compared to the likes of Hamilton and Vettel, he clearly compensates for with a very good feel for the car he's driving. He got put in some tricky situations today, and I'm sure that some other drivers on the grid would have managed to do something daft instead of keeping it clean.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
So what if it comes down to Palmer and Vandoorne for the final seat, where Vandoorne has the raw talent, but Palmer has skill and money? One cannot be substituted for the other, and I have to wonder if Palmer would have had the opportunity to refine his racecraft were it not for his money? Remember the Formula Two championship that was run a few years ago? Everything was owned and operated by MotorSport Vision - a company owned by Jonathan Palmer. From the outset it was obvious that the championship has been created to get Jolyon Palmer into Formula One, and it collapsed when no-one got promoted. It's one thing to have a rich father who indulges your daydream of being a racing driver; it's another thing entirely to have that father build an entire championship and waste the time, effort and energy of everyone involved for your benefit.
Not necessarily agreeing with your point, but boy does that sound familiar. Mick Doohan is doing something very similar to that with his son at the moment in karting.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It's not just that. It's the fact Doohan has only been changing rules only to the benefit of his son, or his best buddies. That's why a large percentage of karters have become disenchanted with the sport as a whole. I could go on about the many things Doohan has done for his son and buddies, but this isn't the time or the place for that, unfortunately.
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
Possibly not, but again, we can't take anything away from him just because he did have the funding. I don't care if a driver gets a seat through money or pure talent, as long as they have the pace and get the results, they both end up getting the same job done.
I don't particularly care what his motives were for creating the championship, because they have no bearing on the discussion we're having. It's completely irrelevant to Palmer's validity as an F1 driver.
- 7,524
- Cincinnati, Ohio, United States of America
- BlackRose_Atomic
I find it funny how we are even arguing how valid it is for anyone to get into F1. Palmer didn't DNF, DNS, DNQ, or get withdrawn, which already puts him miles above some. Sure, he may be a prick, but then again, which driver isn't in a way aside from Grosjean and Ricciardo. Palmer got in the same way everyone else did, by having enough talent and enough money to balance out him being the right choice for Renault. He isn't likely going anywhere for the next few years, so we'll have to deal with sweet Julie Ann Palmer jokes. Can we move on to something else now?
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
What makes you think that is was created just for that purpose, Jonathan Palmer runs many series and owns many tracks, do you think he does all that just for his son to get into F1?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Renault were openly talking about preparing Nicholas Latifi and Esteban Ocon for a future in Formula One before they had even arrived in Australia. I strongly suspect that they wouldn't have taken Palmer if given the chance; they moved to buy Lotus before he was signed, then stalled, prompting the team to take him to cover their costs.
It adds context. Look at Max Chilton, who got in on daddy's dollar. One of the biggest problems with GP2 is that it's backed up with under-performing drivers who are rich enough to race. You say skill is a driver refining their talent; I question whether Palmer had enough talent to merit being there in the first place. Look at the 2013 GP2 grid - he was regularly being beaten by the likes of Ericsson. The 2014 grid was weak by comparison.
- 13,079
- United Kingdom
- 2,516
- London
- nowcontrol
