2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1 

There was a Formula E race in Monaco today and another one tomorrow but it made me ask a question. Why are their front wings that shape and is that something F1 may ever use?
 
Must admit, not liking the new thinner nose on the Merc this weekend; regardless of it's aero functionality. I didn't think the Merc was particularly spectacular/stunning initially, but now it looks quite dorky from the front to me:

Merc W08 Thinner Nose.jpg

Meanwhile, like that the the Force India's are pretty much all pink now, looks better, and it's a livery that forever grows on me more than it has.
 
DesertPenguin09
There was a Formula E race in Monaco today and another one tomorrow but it made me ask a question. Why are their front wings that shape and is that something F1 may ever use?
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FE cars don't travel fast enough and are a fair bit heavy so their aero is more aestetic than functional. Cars have lost or damaged their wings with little to no performances loss before, where as in F1 the slightest bit of debris on a wing has significant effects.
 
Pete05
After the French saying the same about the Renault & Red Bull trumpeting a huge update for this round, talk is cheap.
I'll believe it when it's in the car.
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Renault's update was slated for Canada all along so what update did they claim for this weekend? And Honda are saying they'll try but can't promise anything so I'm not sure what's wrong with them at least keeping the public that cares in the loop. If they didn't do it, the McLaren surely would in an interview during the GP weekend.
 
Pete05
Red Bull trumpeting a huge update for this round
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Red Bull only ever said that they would bring an update for Barcelona. They never said anything about a b-spec car or an entirely new chassis - that was rumour-mongering that got out of control. Didn't you think it was strange that the most media-savvy team did nothing to promote this "new car"? All they did was release a photo of the new bargeboards, which is the area of the car with the most substantial revisions.
 
Pete05
your quote train
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PM just showed you though, that while many were hyped even myself, there was no guarantee. And I even preface my posts on it with "if such and such happens", "when these updates" and so on, because I know that F1 is a fickle business in many ways. All of us should realize this based on the driver shake up circus every year provides. Same thing here, things get a bit stale and the media spices it up with a rumor that gets blown into some kind of certainty.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Same thing here, things get a bit stale and the media spices it up with a rumor that gets blown into some kind of certainty.
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A prime example of this is the reporting on speculation about Vettel signing a pre-contract with Mercedes. Okay, the rumour exists, so major media outlets have to report on it. But if you watch the Sky pre-show, they all get carried away with it. Simon Lazenby and Johnny Herbert are notorious for over-reporting this sort of stuff. They start talking about it, but then they start investing in speculation and opinion, and within a few minutes, they're fully convinced that there's something to it. That's why I'm happy that Natalie Pinkham is back - she was always good at moving a discussion on when the boys got bogged down.
 
Jimlaad43
The FIA should say that each driver must start the race with 1L of drink available as mandatory maybe.
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That will go quickly, though. Drivers can lose litres in sweat alone. When the new engine regulations came into effect in 2014, drivers went to pretty extreme lengths to lose weight - Jenson Button said that there was a time when his body was screaming out to him that something was very, very wrong, and he regularly runs triathlons.
 
prisonermonkeys
That will go quickly, though. Drivers can lose litres in sweat alone. When the new engine regulations came into effect in 2014, drivers went to pretty extreme lengths to lose weight - Jenson Button said that there was a time when his body was screaming out to him that something was very, very wrong, and he regularly runs triathlons.
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The FIA will have to mandate something soon before things get really dangerous.
I'd hate to see a driver blackout in a F1. That thought is just plain scary.
 
Pete05
The FIA will have to mandate something soon before things get really dangerous.
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They took the extreme weight loss pretty seriously, increasing the minimum weight by six kilograms.

Pete05
I'd hate to see a driver blackout in a F1.
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That's all it's going to take. And to be blunt, if a driver blacks out and crashes because he wanted a performance advantage, it's his own stupid fault. They should probably get a race ban for recklessly endangering other drivers.
 
prisonermonkeys
That's all it's going to take. And to be blunt, if a driver blacks out and crashes because he wanted a performance advantage, it's his own stupid fault. They should probably get a race ban for recklessly endangering other drivers.
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If that happens, I'd be more worried about it ending in a fatality, either for the driver that went lights out or, whoever he hits.
Being banned for a race or races, is getting off light in my book.
 
Pete05
If that happens, I'd be more worried about it ending in a fatality, either for the driver that went lights out or, whoever he hits.
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I don't think it would come to that. A driver passing out doesn't put them at any more or less of a risk of death than if they were fully conscious. If a driver did pass out, it's unlikely that they would suddenly accelerate; the body goes limp, and given that the driver sits with their feet above most of their body - it's a bit like putting your feet up on a coffee table while keeping your backside on the floor - it's extremely unlikely that they would put any extra pressure on the pedals.
 
Since it was awfully hard to get a read on the cars (losing two of them)...where do people think the Ferrari/Mercedes are sitting right now. Still track specific? Are we generally expecting one to slowly eke ahead until it's out of reach? Or do we expect a genuine back-n-forth for the remainder of the season?
 
TheElbows
Since it was awfully hard to get a read on the cars (losing two of them)...where do people think the Ferrari/Mercedes are sitting right now. Still track specific? Are we generally expecting one to slowly eke ahead until it's out of reach? Or do we expect a genuine back-n-forth for the remainder of the season?
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Mercedes are still playing catch up in my eyes. Strategy was the deciding factor in Barcelona, not outright pace. It's still very much game on. The fact that Hamilton ditches the drink bottle shows they're struggling to find areas to save weight on the car.

So far the ferrari seems to be a more complete package.
 
Now all we need is RBR and FI to step up and we have the potential for the greatest season ever.
 
The gap between Merc/Ferr and the rest of the field was exacerbated in Spain because both Ham and Vet were driving flat out to beat each other, rather than the usual "slowest way to win" philosophy. It should hopefully get closer at later races if/when one driver is a lot quicker. Monaco could be really close.
 
TheElbows
Since it was awfully hard to get a read on the cars (losing two of them)...where do people think the Ferrari/Mercedes are sitting right now. Still track specific? Are we generally expecting one to slowly eke ahead until it's out of reach? Or do we expect a genuine back-n-forth for the remainder of the season?
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For now I'd say it's better to just ask when the summer break begins, because then you'll have a more clear picture.
[Nor]MclarenF1
Mercedes are still playing catch up in my eyes. Strategy was the deciding factor in Barcelona, not outright pace. It's still very much game on. The fact that Hamilton ditches the drink bottle shows they're struggling to find areas to save weight on the car.

So far the ferrari seems to be a more complete package.
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It was but not that much of a deciding factor to be honest as many make it out, looking at the data from the race. Mercedes ran a longer stint with Lewis obviously but for the same duration as Vettel before his pit ran faster. After that it's hard to read into because they never ran the same compound at the same time, however, you can try and compare stints between their soft and medium runs. Yet that gets difficult to because of fuel burn. Overall it looks like the cars are quite comparable and no one car is actually playing catch up. Even the trap speeds show that the cars are nearly even with the Merc being 1.XX mph faster than the Ferrari.

What is interesting is that the Merc team was 2 seconds faster overall than Ferrari in pit stops.

Compare this to the 3rd best car the RBR and it's nearly night and day betwee the two front runners and everyone else.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
For now I'd say it's better to just ask when the summer break begins, because then you'll have a more clear picture.


It was but not that much of a deciding factor to be honest as many make it out, looking at the data from the race. Mercedes ran a longer stint with Lewis obviously but for the same duration as Vettel before his pit ran faster. After that it's hard to read into because they never ran the same compound at the same time, however, you can try and compare stints between their soft and medium runs. Yet that gets difficult to because of fuel burn. Overall it looks like the cars are quite comparable and no one car is actually playing catch up. Even the trap speeds show that the cars are nearly even with the Merc being 1.XX mph faster than the Ferrari.

What is interesting is that the Merc team was 2 seconds faster overall than Ferrari in pit stops.

Compare this to the 3rd best car the RBR and it's nearly night and day betwee the two front runners and everyone else.
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AutoMotorSport did a comparison between Merc and Ferrari and included the fuel factor and tire wear as much as they could and they came to a difference of 0.1-0.2 seconds for each tire component with Vettel being faster on Mediums and Hamilton on Softs, so nothing really.

For Monaco, I'd expect Ferrari a little better because of the length of the Merc; it's just not that agile in all those slow corners, but it is again down to the driver in Quali. That's why I can see Red Bull closing on the top teams there.

The gap from Ricciardo to the Top was not the real gap between the top two and RBR in Spain; They told him to go on the slowest engine settings after neither having an opportunity to catch Vet/Ham nor having a serious threat by Force India.

Would be great to see the battle going on for the rest of the season, the Merc update seems quite good. Not regarding gaining time but the issues they had with tire temps in the first races. Hamilton had a long last stint on softs despite attacking for the first 8-10 laps.
 
psychoazubi
AutoMotorSport did a comparison between Merc and Ferrari and included the fuel factor and tire wear as much as they could and they came to a difference of 0.1-0.2 seconds for each tire component with Vettel being faster on Mediums and Hamilton on Softs, so nothing really.
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Seems about right I used the data from the FIA http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2017/eventtiming-information-21

And taking averages purely from the first stint where they run the same tires, then comparing their stints without fuel burn off where they run medium and softs it's essentially quite close.

For Monaco, I'd expect Ferrari a little better because of the length of the Merc; it's just not that agile in all those slow corners, but it is again down to the driver in Quali. That's why I can see Red Bull closing on the top teams there.
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Not sure on this, I mean Monaco anything can happen, and Mercedes will run a variation of their car specifically for the round like everyone does. So we could very likely see Force India or even Nico Hulkenburg rounding out the podium. It's really that hard to know.

The gap from Ricciardo to the Top was not the real gap between the top two and RBR in Spain; They told him to go on the slowest engine settings after neither having an opportunity to catch Vet/Ham nor having a serious threat by Force India.
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True but I'm not basing this solely off of Spain once again using the data from the FIA website you can get a better idea of things

Would be great to see the battle going on for the rest of the season, the Merc update seems quite good. Not regarding gaining time but the issues they had with tire temps in the first races. Hamilton had a long last stint on softs despite attacking for the first 8-10 laps.
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Yeah that's what I think helped the most, obviously not sure, but Lewis and Ferrari thought the rears were gone after he fought Vettel, but Mercedes never seemed worried. Which means to me they knew more than their own driver in that instant. I mean I would say the first stint on ultras was even more impressive for how long he went compared to others.
 

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