2024 Formula 1 Constructors threadFormula 1

[GingerBredMan]

It honestly feels like they were never expecting a team to go over the cap. If one of the punishments is to exclude a team from the championship, they can’t wait 10 months to do that. The cost cap rules are destined to fall apart once they release the results.

 

[Fezzik]

It honestly feels like they were never expecting a team to go over the cap. If one of the punishments is to exclude a team from the championship, they can’t wait 10 months to do that. The cost cap rules are destined to fall apart once they release the results.

I'm not sure there's any other way to do it. Audits of this complexity take a long time, and doing the compliance checks during the season really isn't feasible.

For an example from another sport, it took a 9 month investigation by Premiership Rugby to determine that Saracens (the multiple champions) had breached the salary cap on more than one occasion. They were initially deducted a large number of points, and subsequently further punished by being relegated from the top flight. They still kept the titles already won.

 

[Samus]

My guess is any punishment will be on coming seasons, reduced budget and/or wind tunnel time. They'll also cite these being the first two years of the cap being in place along with COVID/inflation as extenuating circumstances and reason not to do anything drastic.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

They could have a rolling overage where it rolls into next season or maybe phases out over a few years. But then the question is what will they do based on overage amount. When do they start docking points? If they can't touch previous seasons, it also leaves teams the option to overspend in one season to gain an advantage and take the hit later. It all just seems messy.

 

[Northstar]

I have to imagine Alpha Tauri complicates things since they likely have to sift through both budgets to make sure money from one team isn’t being spent to the benefit of the other (outside of stuff like staff development).

On that note I wonder if selling Alpha Tauri might be a part of a settlement. It obviously wouldn’t do much in the “sending a message” column and Red Bull would make a ton of money in the sale, but the long term punishment is certainly measurable. It would also open the door for an entity like Andretti or Porsche to enter the series without shrinking the piece of pie the other teams get every year just for showing up.

 

[GingerBredMan]

I'm not sure there's any other way to do it. Audits of this complexity take a long time, and doing the compliance checks during the season really isn't feasible.

For an example from another sport, it took a 9 month investigation by Premiership Rugby to determine that Saracens (the multiple champions) had breached the salary cap on more than one occasion. They were initially deducted a large number of points, and subsequently further punished by being relegated from the top flight. They still kept the titles already won.

It just seems like the cap was destined to fail. We all know the FIA won’t exclude anyone from a championship, so it all kind of falls apart from there. Given how last season ended, a lot of fans will be less excepting of the idea that a team went significantly over the cap and got multiple championships out of it (if what’s being rumoured is true of course). Even if a team does get excluded 10 months after the fact, it’s not a great look. But boy oh boy would that be entertaining.

 

[IcySlivers]

Agree that penalties should be given much faster. If Red Bull had suffered from going over budget in 2021, Lewis would probably already have his 8th title. He was comfortably winning that race before Latifi crashed and caused the whole safety car fiasco

 

[Famine]

Eight teams found to be within regulations, Aston Martin guilty of "procedural breach", Red Bull of "procedural and minor overspend breach".

Red Bull found guilty of breaking F1's budget cap

Red Bull are found guilty of breaking Formula 1's budget cap by the sport's governing body, the FIA.

www.bbc.co.uk

Punishments yet to be revealed.

 

[Rossell2]

What with everything else FIA related as of late, I'm sure there'll be a punishment that doesn't fit the crime.

 

[BrainsBush]

Was the exceeded budget cap from RBR car related? Some said/wrote they overspent 1-2% because RBR factory pays lunches for all employees (+/- 1000) each day and a number of them are employees who are 'under budget cap' and majority 'not under budget cap'.

Therefor a light punishment to be expected.

 

[EngieDiesel]

According to that BBC article, the punishments for what's deemed a "minor" overspend range through a stern look and finger wagging (reprimand), loss of constructors and/or drivers points for the year in question, limitations on testing, suspension from an undetermined number of races, and a reduction of the team's future cost cap (maybe in the amount of the overspend, to make a guess).

I imagine the combination and severity of what's handed down will depend on whether or not the money was spent on car development in some fashion, and probably also on whether RBR wants to drag it out through further investigation or just admit they done goofed.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Bit late to cut this year's cost cap. If that option was chosen, they'd probably do 2023.

But what will actually happen is they'll probably knock off 20 points from the 2021 constructors championship. 🤡

 

[NICKname]

Red Bull should be forced to provide free lunch for all FIA, FOM and rival team employees at one GP next year.

 

[GroupB]

Horner should be made to step down and the team forced to hire Masi as his replacement.

 

[GingerBredMan]

So no defamation suit from Horner then

How very fitting that they would say who breached the cap, but kept the punishment’s quiet. Very on brand for the FIA.

The notion that RB overspent on lunches seems like nonsense. “The budget cap of $145 dollars restricts an F1 team’s spending in the areas pertinent to competition, i.e. the car, research and development, and all performance-related spending”. Unless the angle is that providing lunches improves the performance of the employees then there’s nothing to that story.

 

[Samus]

If the punishment is only a fine that doesn't come out of next year's budget then all teams are just going to purposely go within 5% over next year and take the fine.

 

[MagpieRacer]

If the punishment is only a fine that doesn't come out of next year's budget then all teams are just going to purposely go within 5% over next year and take the fine.

Exactly my thoughts. It has to be harsher than a fine for this exact reason. They kept punishments quiet so teams didn't try to lay that game but may end up inviting it anyway.

 

[sillybilly]

If the punishment is only a fine that doesn't come out of next year's budget then all teams are just going to purposely go within 5% over next year and take the fine.

So then next years cap is $145m+5% then the FIA can make a silly half rule change so the next year the cap includes the 5%...Then the next year the cap is really $153+5% ? haha


I just read some on Fl website:

The second is a minor sporting penalty which could be a combination of a reprimand, deduction of constructors and/or drivers points, a ban for a certain number of races, limitations on testing – both CFD and on-track – and/or a reduction of their cost cap.

They will take penalties on CFD surely!

I'm pretty certain that for the last 10 years there is a secret in joke that the auditing reports of calcs done for CFD by all teams is fictional because the limit numbers are based on compute power and cost of 2009... now it's been updated but you know computing technology doesn't advance as quick as F1 rules change HAHAHA

 

[NickGuy]

where were they getting lunch from to overspend that much, Chipotle?

 

[Liquid]

If the punishment is only a fine that doesn't come out of next year's budget then all teams are just going to purposely go within 5% over next year and take the fine.

A fine is just the price to break the law rules.

 

[McLaren]

where were they getting lunch from to overspend that much, Chipotle?

Double meated all the entrées.

 

[MagpieRacer]

where were they getting lunch from to overspend that much, Chipotle?

The Savoy would be a better guess I reckon 😆.

I've read in a few places that Adrian Neweys salary is a point of contention. Supposedly in the region of $10m. Supposedly Red Bull have hired him as a contractor as, per the rules of the cap, contractors salaries aren't included in the cap.

What is interesting about this is, if true, there are 3 people earning more than him at Red Bull (top 3 salaries don't come under the cap), which I find astonishing. But also, if this interpretation holds water, where does the line get drawn? Will every team suddenly be employing an awful lot of contractors to work in their factories or something similar.

 

[Samus]

Haas have found a replacement for the Russians.

Haas F1 Team | Haas F1 Team Announces MoneyGram Title Sponsorship for 2023 Season and Beyond

“We are pleased to welcome an incredible brand like MoneyGram as our new title sponsor,” said Gene Haas, Founder and Chairman of Haas F1 Team. “Since our entrance into the F1 World Championship in 2016, Haas F1 Team has earned a reputation of strength, agility and resilience. MoneyGram brings a...

www.haasf1team.com

 

[EngieDiesel]

I'm a bit surprised, the most salacious thing i can seem to dig up about MoneyGram recently is that they're involved in a court case involving the state of Delaware and unclaimed money orders. Other than that, they seem to be a more digital-centric version of Western Union.

Could it be that Haas finally managed to find a title sponsor that isn't going to make them look like a joke after a few months?

 

[Samus]

I'm a bit surprised, the most salacious thing i can seem to dig up about MoneyGram recently is that they're involved in a court case involving the state of Delaware and unclaimed money orders. Other than that, they seem to be a more digital-centric version of Western Union.

Could it be that Haas finally managed to find a title sponsor that isn't going to make them look like a joke after a few months?

Yeah they're a pretty legit, big company. Good deal for Haas, assuming the money offered was good.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Oh boy…

FIA and Red Bull in negotiations over budget cap breach

The FIA and Red Bull Racing are in negotiations over the minor overspend breach that the team has been accused of, as it maintains it did not break budget cap regulations. Red Bull was the only tea…

racer.com

 

[Jimlaad43]

How can you negotiate a punishment? Surely you negotiate a punishment with all teams, or just slap one down on them and say "deal with it".

This way Red Bull will make sure they can get away with the breach in a way that means they can plan around it and take advantage for further breaches, thus setting a precident for this kind of breach in their blueprint.

 

[Dolph Drago]

Wonder if Mick will be back next year? I'm aware the ad is simply showing footage from this season, but he is featured a few times.

 

[GingerBredMan]

How can you negotiate a punishment? Surely you negotiate a punishment with all teams, or just slap one down on them and say "deal with it".

This way Red Bull will make sure they can get away with the breach in a way that means they can plan around it and take advantage for further breaches, thus setting a precident for this kind of breach in their blueprint.

I think the articles about this are a little click-batey. The ‘negotiation’ part of this alludes to the agreement teams have to sign acknowledging that they breached the cap. But it sounds like RB are keeping their stance that they didn’t breach the cap, and are going to hold a press conference about it tomorrow. Drama!

 

[Veinz]

Tomorrow will be fun. 🍿