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Virtually identical either way. Maybe the benefit is to reduce the disadvantage on the straights vs the other top teams.
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2024 Formula 1 Constructors threadFormula 1
- Thread starter Jimlaad43
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FIA says McLaren rear wing complies with rules after Red Bull raised questions about legality
Formula 1’s governing body says McLaren’s rear wing complies with the rules after rivals Red Bull raised questions about its legality.
www.bbc.co.uk
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- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Seems to me that the advantage McLaren were looking for was not to be any quicker on the straights, but to have more downforce through the corners. They can essentially run 'more wing' than the other teams yet loose little to no speed difference on the long straights. With DRS activated they were slower (if only by a touch) then their rivals, but when closed they were there or thereabouts, which to me sounds like their closed wing is artificially DRSing due to some flexing trickery, but trickery that doesn't fall foul of the regs.
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- 29,843
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
Other teams will be quick to try and get it banned though.
Funnily enough I was recently watching the 1998 season review where the 1997 and 1998 McLarens' independent rear brakes caused an issue and Ferrari successfully protested to get it banned. Ron Dennis quite pertinently commented that "the only response that a rival team has is to try and find a way to have it banned rather than rise to the technical challenge."
And I'm sure McLaren has done the same in the past as well with other teams' trickery. Standard F1 dummy-throwing.
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This is plausible but a counter points:
- If the 'more wing' was significant wouldn't Piatri have been able to pull a gap in the middle sector and break the DRS?
- Did LeClerc seemed to run many more hard middle sectors in dirty air to stay in DRS zone - Piastri wasn't able to continue in the first stint with a serious chase. Or he/team felt/knew that it would damage the tyres too much even if they were running 'more wing' than the rival ahead?
I think it's a tea cup storm and don't think it made the difference. If LeClerc defended a little harder after the pitstop and forced Piastri to run dirty air for 4 or 5 more laps then he would have cruised to win.
The race was amazing because there genuinely seemed like almost no difference in car performance and the result was almost completely down to the drivers actions.
MagpieRacer
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On a related note, the FIA requested prior to Singapore that McLaren tweak that rear wing. Something tells me that it didn't peg them back as much as Horner, Wolff or Vasseur would've hoped.
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- Rossell2
Alpine to close works engine programme at the end of 2025
Alpine have announced plans for a so-called ‘Hypertech’ transformation project that will include their Formula 1 power unit department ceasing operations at the end of next year.
www.formula1.com
Alpine shuts down the engine department at the end of 2025 but will move them into a new department dedicated to engine... Stuff. That is if they keep their word, but Alpine are normally quite good at that sort of thing.
MagpieRacer
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Rumour has it they want to use Mercedes engines from 2026 so this tracks.Alpine to close works engine programme at the end of 2025
Alpine have announced plans for a so-called ‘Hypertech’ transformation project that will include their Formula 1 power unit department ceasing operations at the end of next year.
Alpine shuts down the engine department at the end of 2025 but will move them into a new department dedicated to engine... Stuff. That is if they keep their word, but Alpine are normally quite good at that sort of thing.
Renault at this point must be absolutely bleeding money into the F1 project and surely are considering ditching/selling it.
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Come on, that's disingenuous. I don't recall McLaren and this Aston Martin ever having their own engine programmes, irrespective of previous works deals for them both. McLaren had over 40 years of history as a racing team before it became a serious road car manufacturer. Unlike 1959, this Aston Martin slaps its name on Silverstone GP, a team founded in 1991, to put it bluntly.
That's a world of difference from Renault having a long-established works team and engine programme, and abandoning that engine programme to become a customer team. Although I acknowledge that Renault is a historical flip-flopper who bought Enstone Formula for this particular incarnation of their team.
Team continuity sucks.
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MagpieRacer
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Worth noting that Mercedes use a healthy chunk of Renaults engines in road cars.
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Alpine also never ran own engines and doesn't even build own engines for roadcars so running Renault ones on the road and in F1 is as fine as running anything else. Many people would be very excited finding the AMG 4.0 V8TT in an new roadcar 2026 Alpine A310/V6 (or V8 then). Especially with Alpine getting fully electric on the road in the near future it probably makes even more sense buying a petrol engine somewhere else.
Not blaming Aston Martin and McLaren for running Merc or soon Aston Martin - Honda while blaming Alpine just doesn't make sense. Customer team McLaren is likely to win one or both championships this year. Wasting a lot of money for an own (or parent companys) name on your engine doesn't make sense in current F1. Not a single customer will not buy an A110 because Alpine F1 is running Merc engines. Nobody outside of small parts of the F1 bubble does even care. Nobody was interested in Renault or Honda winning all those titles with Red Bull the last 15 years.
Not blaming Aston Martin and McLaren for running Merc or soon Aston Martin - Honda while blaming Alpine just doesn't make sense. Customer team McLaren is likely to win one or both championships this year. Wasting a lot of money for an own (or parent companys) name on your engine doesn't make sense in current F1. Not a single customer will not buy an A110 because Alpine F1 is running Merc engines. Nobody outside of small parts of the F1 bubble does even care. Nobody was interested in Renault or Honda winning all those titles with Red Bull the last 15 years.
MagpieRacer
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Alpine are Renault though so the 'not own engines' thing isn't true.
Things like the current Mercedes A class, variations of the C class, B class and even G class use Renault-Nissan developed engines. The Alpine A110 used a variation of the Nissan developed Renault Megane Sport engine. It's all a bit of a mess really and everyone uses the same stuff so ultimately you're right in that no one really will care and it certainly won't damage sales.
Arguably, Aston Martin Honda is the weirder of the deals, with Mercedes it was understandable as again, Aston used AMG power plants for a lot of their cars. I can't see them shoving a Civic Type R engine in the next DB model though.
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A Civic Type-R with an Aston Martin V12 would be pretty fun.
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There's a rumour floating about that F1 is wanting to host a "Car Launch event" of sorts, where all teams launch their 2025 cars in the same place at the same time as a grand ticketed event.
I'd assume the cars are launched one-by-one in like a reverse Constructors Championship order with each team given like 10 or 15 minutes to show the car, chat to the drivers and say a few sponsors names.
Thoughts? Personally, I'm a bit on the fence. Having the launches together and having them standardised as an event makes it cool because we don't get badly dripfed a bunch of liveries, CGI pictures and a barrage of leaks.
On the other hand, it means we have all the headlines at the same time and the more dull cars won't get any headline time. Basically the most striking or radical car of the 10 will be front page, while the Sauber or RB will just be a one-line footnote.
Still, as 90% of car launches nowadays are usually disappointing, this sounds fun, especially if it's more accessible to the public to at least get tickets for.
I'd assume the cars are launched one-by-one in like a reverse Constructors Championship order with each team given like 10 or 15 minutes to show the car, chat to the drivers and say a few sponsors names.
Thoughts? Personally, I'm a bit on the fence. Having the launches together and having them standardised as an event makes it cool because we don't get badly dripfed a bunch of liveries, CGI pictures and a barrage of leaks.
On the other hand, it means we have all the headlines at the same time and the more dull cars won't get any headline time. Basically the most striking or radical car of the 10 will be front page, while the Sauber or RB will just be a one-line footnote.
Still, as 90% of car launches nowadays are usually disappointing, this sounds fun, especially if it's more accessible to the public to at least get tickets for.
MagpieRacer
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I think its a cool idea, launches recently have been boring and CGI driven nonsense.
If it's a one off for the 75th anniversary then I'm game.
If it's a one off for the 75th anniversary then I'm game.
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Meanwhile, Michael Andretti is stepping down from the ownership role of Andretti F1:
He's bowing out the ownership role of his Indycar team too, so I get the feeling he's in the "done with this" phase at this point (whether by choice or by boardroom decision). Regardless, I doubt we'll be seeing that 11th team on the grid anytime soon.
He's bowing out the ownership role of his Indycar team too, so I get the feeling he's in the "done with this" phase at this point (whether by choice or by boardroom decision). Regardless, I doubt we'll be seeing that 11th team on the grid anytime soon.
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Very pleased to see Toyota 'back' in F1 ! ... Its a little strange though, they saying 'don't call it a comeback' but appears they are going to have a hand in pretty much every department (except power train stuff)... I don't know but that seems to me like a comeback but under a different title ?
Hopefully this works well for both parties, it'll be good to see Haas improving to at least consistent points finishes, and if that's the case it'll be good to see Toyota's name attached to that.
... You never know maybe it's part of a long term plan for Toyota to get back in the swing of F1 before making a proper official comeback ... Well that's my hope anyway
I'm still gutted Toyota pulled out of F1 when they did, I really felt they were getting their car design sorted and about to get that elusive first win.
(I never agreed with their driver choices but car wise I definitely think they were about to crack it)
Hopefully this works well for both parties, it'll be good to see Haas improving to at least consistent points finishes, and if that's the case it'll be good to see Toyota's name attached to that.
... You never know maybe it's part of a long term plan for Toyota to get back in the swing of F1 before making a proper official comeback ... Well that's my hope anyway
I'm still gutted Toyota pulled out of F1 when they did, I really felt they were getting their car design sorted and about to get that elusive first win.(I never agreed with their driver choices but car wise I definitely think they were about to crack it)
