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- bramturismo
Australian Formula 1 Grand Prix 2009
- Thread starter GT4 genius
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Massive respect to Brawn GP and to Honda for helping to create such an impressive car. A Walter Wolf Award for you!
A big dis to Kubica (BMW on my FF1 team) for taking out Vettel (also on my FF1 team), although had it not been 2 laps to go, I would have expected Sebastian to be a little less aggressive in letting him by. So a Sennaprost Clash Award to them.
Fisichella wins the Kaz Nakajima Award for running over his pit crew.
First lap accident is just a given here: Albert Park gets the dreaded Monza Chicane Award.
Now we do it all again in a couple of days...
A big dis to Kubica (BMW on my FF1 team) for taking out Vettel (also on my FF1 team), although had it not been 2 laps to go, I would have expected Sebastian to be a little less aggressive in letting him by. So a Sennaprost Clash Award to them.
Fisichella wins the Kaz Nakajima Award for running over his pit crew.
First lap accident is just a given here: Albert Park gets the dreaded Monza Chicane Award.
Now we do it all again in a couple of days...
- 10,837
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- bramturismo
Tired Tyres
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All the laptimes from every session are here.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/timing.aspx
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/timing.aspx
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Yeah, but you can't deny Hamilton got lucky with Nakajima's accident occuring when it did, because it meant he could get off the soft rubber without losing much in the way of road position.
If Brawn can prove that, they'll have some major ammunition going into the appeal (assuming they are allowed to state their case), and a serious psychological advantage over everyone else. Imagine if you'd filed a protest over a particular part and claimed it made the competition quick by violating the rules only to have them turn around and say "Guess what: you jut went to all that trouble and it's not even the secret of our success" ...
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Luck and consistency. Hamilton was one of the few front-runners who couldn't break into the 1:28s. In fact, his fastest lap lands him in 13th place. Even Alonso and Raikonnen could (and Raikonnen, on a better set-up, was consistently in the 1:28s late in the race). Hamilton benefitted from a good strategy and some very, very consistent (and safe) driving. Due to attrition, you could say that eight or so of the positions Hamilton gained were due to accidents, but that still leaves six or seven positions gained due to good racing.
Position = points. Fastest laps =/= points. Although, if I were the FIA, I'd give bonuses for fastest laps... still, mad props to Raikonnen for his pace... the man is definitely thirsty for another championship this season.
And diffuser having no effect? Seeing the difference in pace between the various cars this past race... I'd say that statement is very doubtful.
Position = points. Fastest laps =/= points. Although, if I were the FIA, I'd give bonuses for fastest laps... still, mad props to Raikonnen for his pace... the man is definitely thirsty for another championship this season.
And diffuser having no effect? Seeing the difference in pace between the various cars this past race... I'd say that statement is very doubtful.
Scaff
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So did everyone else who pitted at the same time.
Honestly do we have to have another year in which anything, and I do mean anything, that Hamilton does gets turned into cheating/luck/stupidity by you?
Driving one of the least competitive cars on the grid he put in a solid and mature performance, yes he did gain some places through luck, but he also gained a number by driving well and better use of KERs than a number of drivers.
It would not make a jot of difference, if a part is illegal (and I don't personally think it is) then its illegal, regardless of effectiveness.
You can't argue to keep a part on a car simply because its not making you quicker.
Regards
Scaff
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You're mis-understanding me: after seeing the lap times he had been setting, Hamilton's skill as a driver was certainly a part of his race. But I'm saying that you can't wholly attribute skill as being the deciding factor in his race. Good fortune did have something to do with it; I think it was luck and skill in equal parts. After all, what would have happened if Nakajima had crashed ten laps later when Hamilton had been forced to make his stop? Of course, it's useless to speculate; we could well ask ourselves what would have happened if the Toyotas hadn't been thrown out, or the diffusers had been declared illegal, or if Kovalainen hadn't tagged Barrichello at the first corner, and we still wouldn't get an answer because it's impossible to tell.
This could well be the year that my opinion of Hamilton changes, because I've always said the one thing every other regular driver has had has been a season where their car is downright terrible, but Hamilton has been born with the proverbial spoon in his mouth: for the past two years, McLaren have been able to give him a car that has been competitive from the moment it debuted in testing. How Hamilton handles the current McLaren will decide where he falls relative to everyone else in my (oftentimes vocal) opinion, but one race alone is not enough to go by. Especially since said performance is likely to define my opinion of him from now until the moment he retires.
Again, you're mis-understanding me: I meant that the psychological advantage would come from the fact that they've been forced to change a particular part, but the're still just as quick.
Tired Tyres
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Fisi is prone to errors like that. He's missed where he's supposed to stop on the grid before as well.
On the upside it's only 4 days and 12 hours to first practice in Malaysia. I wish there was only a week between each Grand Prix.
On the upside it's only 4 days and 12 hours to first practice in Malaysia. I wish there was only a week between each Grand Prix.
- 1,291
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The race broadcast I was watching here in NA, Vettel came on the radio and apologized for being stupid. That would indicate he felt he was at least partially at fault, no?
I was also initally disappointed in Bourdais race, I dozed off with 23 or so to go, he was at the back of the field, I wake up with 10 to go and he was only one spot back of Buemi-he was fueled very heavy after the second stop. His pace was pretty good in the final 1/3 of the race as the fuel burned off. According to his website they ran the supersofts during the first stint, and had graining after 3 laps or so.
Not taking anything away from Buemi, very good drive for the rookie and 2 points is nice in his debut. With both drivers in the points after the accidents and penalties, overall I'd have to think the team regarded the race as a success.
I was also initally disappointed in Bourdais race, I dozed off with 23 or so to go, he was at the back of the field, I wake up with 10 to go and he was only one spot back of Buemi-he was fueled very heavy after the second stop. His pace was pretty good in the final 1/3 of the race as the fuel burned off. According to his website they ran the supersofts during the first stint, and had graining after 3 laps or so.
Not taking anything away from Buemi, very good drive for the rookie and 2 points is nice in his debut. With both drivers in the points after the accidents and penalties, overall I'd have to think the team regarded the race as a success.
- 10,373
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- Ardius_
Especially keeping in mind that they are lacking some extra development parts from Red Bull that they are apprarently going to get by Spain. Or I remember something like that being said during free practice.
The Outlaw
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I personally think Fisi was just trying to get out of the way of the car behind him to avoid being rammed. That's why it looked as if he was going to run over his pit crew. It's likely that the sun was causing issues for him locating the pit box and he didn't catch his stall until the last second, but couldn't just stop in the middle of the road and get taken out by the car behind like a dummy. He turned in just enough to get out of the way of the car behind and also so his pit crew could roll him back into his stall without having to come into the pits once again on the next lap.
You are absolutely correct. After Vettel and Kubica made contact, Kubica ran off the road at the following corner and Vettel did the same exact thing, almost as if there was some type of oil or debris on the track. Vettel's crash was no fault of Kubica, other than maybe being flustered by the contact they had just prior 👍 On Speed they showed a replay of the two cars crashing one after another at the same corner...quite funny
I liked how Vettel admitted his stupidity over the radio...that was pretty cool 👍
- 583
I think the crash that involved Vettel and Kubica was partly both drivers fault. You can't really blame Vettel because in the situation he was in, there was not much he could do. Kubica was equally as aggressive and Vettel had nowhere to go.
I heard Vettel on the team radio apologizing, but it wasn't his fault as far as I'm concerned.
As for Lewis Hamilton, its nice to see he got the ruling his way for once, in regards to Trulli getting the 25-second penalty, and Lewis finishing 3rd.
I heard Vettel on the team radio apologizing, but it wasn't his fault as far as I'm concerned.
As for Lewis Hamilton, its nice to see he got the ruling his way for once, in regards to Trulli getting the 25-second penalty, and Lewis finishing 3rd.
Tired Tyres
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I agree about Vettel. It was a racing incident. Next season this sort of thing will happen in every race if the FIA goes ahead with its stupid wins determine the champion idea.
What will the the stewards do then?
Everybody with a decent car will be knocked back 10 places on the grid every other race.
- 924
You know what? I really think this race proves that F1 could be exciting again. You have Rosberg dominating the qualifying rounds, Webber falling down to last almost immediately , both the ferraris conking out (with Raikonnen running himself into a wall... rofl) a last-minute collision between 2nd and 3rd place where BOTH of them were at fault, a weird yellow-flag finish/position swap, teams other than ferrari, mclaren and bmw winning a race, and a brand new team taking 1-2 in their very first race.
F1 is cool again.
F1 is cool again.
- 7,719
What an exciting race. It was awesome, even if the results weren't 100% what my inner fan wanted to see - the Brawns made sure that at least my inner underdog-lover got his fix.
Major props for Button - a commanding drive, and he also showed something that I've missed in past winners: Patience. He could've left Vettel in the dust, but instead kept himself to a safe 5-seconds gap: Whenever Vettel made his superhuman efforts to close it, Button promptly set a faster lap. He kept his car below the limit, just where a car that covered this little testing should be kept. As little risk as possible while keeping a safe advantage.
Also well done: Barrichello, for an excellent recovery from that slow start. 2nd place was his due to retirements, but he drove a very solid race despite a few nudges. Hamilton, for proving us wrong and providing a very solid race in a slow car, overtaking those that were actually slower and out-pitting the rest - a very respectable achievement(excepting that first-corner nudge to Barrichello, which set off a domino effect)[Corrected: T'was Kovalainen]. Trulli, for an even greater achievement - pitlane-start to 3rd - only to be out-done on the final laps by this little mindfart. Vettel, likewise - a heroic attempt to keep up with an invincible Button, and all lost in the accident against Kubica. Kubica, for the long, consistent and stable driving, and that little strategic gem that very nearly gained him 2nd place, and was also lost in that collision.
I would also like to thank the OWG for this race. Many doubts were placed over the new rules' effectiveness, but now, we've all seen it: There's a huge difference compared to last year. The cars followed each other tightly through the high-speed esses, and there was plenty of overtaking - and not just in the braking zones. We've also seen the fun that KERS brings to the table: It may not be a benefit over a single lap, but it sure did add to the spectacle. We could see Hamilton and Raikkonen blasting past non-KERS opponents on the straights. There was also the fantastic example about KERS' defensive use: Glock complained to his engineers, when he couldn't get past Alonso, that "he's using KERS all the time!".
Speaking of which - Glock's battle with Alonso was a fantastic race-long duel that ended on a slightly sour note for me. From the first laps, and nearly until the end, the two duked it out between them, honorably, and climbed from the lowest positions (Glock from the pitlane, Alonso because he avoided the first-corner crash by going over the gravel) to 8th and 9th. However, when the two ran side-by-side through the first two corners, Glock did something which, of all drivers, I didn't expect him to do - on the short straight before the next corner, he just drove to the left, where Alonso's car was located. You guys may recall, at the Italian GP last year, Glock was in a similar situation with Hamilton - and loudly complained about it (and rightfully so!). Now, just 8 months later, he does the same? Had Alonso not braked early in order to avoid him, it would've ended with at least one retirement. I can understand fighting for space into a corner - but there's a difference between that an driving directly into where an opponent is located, even if it's the better line.
And on the Kubica-Vettel incident.. I won't bother. It was completely unnecessary, on both sides: Vettel had no hope in hell to keep that position (an amazing on-board shot just seconds earlier showed just how much more grip the BMW had through the first chicane), but Kubica could've waited another corner or two. In the end, it's similar to last year's Coulthard-Massa crash. In the end, though, I feel that although uncharacteristic of him, Kubica attacked too early - but was in the right. He kept himself on the very outside of the track, on the edge, giving Vettel all the space he needed - but apparently, not the space Vettel wanted.
That being said, though, it did provide us with a big "epic fail" moment, probably coupled by a face-palm. And then a big laugh as they both crashed on separate corners within seconds of each other. These crashes, since someone mentioned, are very simple: The cars were broken and undriveable. Kubica lacked front downforce, and simply understeered into the wall, while Vettel's car wasn't controllable. The fact that Vettel kept on driving, however, was unacceptable. It was very unsafe - not only did he keep driving, with other cars (which weren't allowed to pass, due to the safety-car), potentially leaving dangerous debris - but he kept on driving past the pitlane! It would've been somewhat understandable if he only intended to return his car to the pits, but instead, he kept driving, since under a safety-car finish (like we had today), he could've kept his position in the points.
He said the car was strong physically, but he didn't say "It wasn't the diffuser", nor hinted at it, at any point during the conference. He said that he got hit as a testament to the car's strength - it was barely damaged, and he kept his good pace.
And yes, to all the doubters who seem to have sprung from that post by Bram, the diffuser is a massive advantage. The three disputed-diffuser cars were very, very fast: They sat on the three podium spots before the penalty. It's not the only thing that makes the BrawnGP cars fast - but it's a big factor. It's extra downforce with zero drag-penalty, and if the car is designed to correctly feed it the amount of air it needs, the diffuser is worth half a second. Half a second, in a field where Q2 spans just a second and a half, is an incredible difference.
Major props for Button - a commanding drive, and he also showed something that I've missed in past winners: Patience. He could've left Vettel in the dust, but instead kept himself to a safe 5-seconds gap: Whenever Vettel made his superhuman efforts to close it, Button promptly set a faster lap. He kept his car below the limit, just where a car that covered this little testing should be kept. As little risk as possible while keeping a safe advantage.
Also well done: Barrichello, for an excellent recovery from that slow start. 2nd place was his due to retirements, but he drove a very solid race despite a few nudges. Hamilton, for proving us wrong and providing a very solid race in a slow car, overtaking those that were actually slower and out-pitting the rest - a very respectable achievement
I would also like to thank the OWG for this race. Many doubts were placed over the new rules' effectiveness, but now, we've all seen it: There's a huge difference compared to last year. The cars followed each other tightly through the high-speed esses, and there was plenty of overtaking - and not just in the braking zones. We've also seen the fun that KERS brings to the table: It may not be a benefit over a single lap, but it sure did add to the spectacle. We could see Hamilton and Raikkonen blasting past non-KERS opponents on the straights. There was also the fantastic example about KERS' defensive use: Glock complained to his engineers, when he couldn't get past Alonso, that "he's using KERS all the time!".
Speaking of which - Glock's battle with Alonso was a fantastic race-long duel that ended on a slightly sour note for me. From the first laps, and nearly until the end, the two duked it out between them, honorably, and climbed from the lowest positions (Glock from the pitlane, Alonso because he avoided the first-corner crash by going over the gravel) to 8th and 9th. However, when the two ran side-by-side through the first two corners, Glock did something which, of all drivers, I didn't expect him to do - on the short straight before the next corner, he just drove to the left, where Alonso's car was located. You guys may recall, at the Italian GP last year, Glock was in a similar situation with Hamilton - and loudly complained about it (and rightfully so!). Now, just 8 months later, he does the same? Had Alonso not braked early in order to avoid him, it would've ended with at least one retirement. I can understand fighting for space into a corner - but there's a difference between that an driving directly into where an opponent is located, even if it's the better line.
And on the Kubica-Vettel incident.. I won't bother. It was completely unnecessary, on both sides: Vettel had no hope in hell to keep that position (an amazing on-board shot just seconds earlier showed just how much more grip the BMW had through the first chicane), but Kubica could've waited another corner or two. In the end, it's similar to last year's Coulthard-Massa crash. In the end, though, I feel that although uncharacteristic of him, Kubica attacked too early - but was in the right. He kept himself on the very outside of the track, on the edge, giving Vettel all the space he needed - but apparently, not the space Vettel wanted.
That being said, though, it did provide us with a big "epic fail" moment, probably coupled by a face-palm. And then a big laugh as they both crashed on separate corners within seconds of each other. These crashes, since someone mentioned, are very simple: The cars were broken and undriveable. Kubica lacked front downforce, and simply understeered into the wall, while Vettel's car wasn't controllable. The fact that Vettel kept on driving, however, was unacceptable. It was very unsafe - not only did he keep driving, with other cars (which weren't allowed to pass, due to the safety-car), potentially leaving dangerous debris - but he kept on driving past the pitlane! It would've been somewhat understandable if he only intended to return his car to the pits, but instead, he kept driving, since under a safety-car finish (like we had today), he could've kept his position in the points.
He said the car was strong physically, but he didn't say "It wasn't the diffuser", nor hinted at it, at any point during the conference. He said that he got hit as a testament to the car's strength - it was barely damaged, and he kept his good pace.
And yes, to all the doubters who seem to have sprung from that post by Bram, the diffuser is a massive advantage. The three disputed-diffuser cars were very, very fast: They sat on the three podium spots before the penalty. It's not the only thing that makes the BrawnGP cars fast - but it's a big factor. It's extra downforce with zero drag-penalty, and if the car is designed to correctly feed it the amount of air it needs, the diffuser is worth half a second. Half a second, in a field where Q2 spans just a second and a half, is an incredible difference.
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Tired Tyres
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Do you not recognise humour?*Sputter* (or at least I would if I were drinking at the moment).
Just because you obviously hate the guy and manage to dredge up arguments to use against him on every single incident even remotely involving him... is no reason to ignore the fact that Hamilton gave the place back to Trulli, like a good boy should, and is the only McLaren-Ferrari driver not to stuff his car in this race. And he was in front of both Ferraris when they (finally) went out.
He may have lucked up two places due to the Vettel Kubica incident, but since Trulli effectively took himself out, it's an impressive drive from 18th to a virtual 5th and an actual 3rd
For all the Hamilton haters out there: eat cake. Starts 18th. One of the slowest cars on the field. Gets points. Ha.Ha.Ha.
EDIT: Illegal parts deemed illegal after they're allowed to race don't affect the points. I seem to remember Renault not losing any points for the mass dampers...
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Sometimes yours is too dry to be construed as humour.
Honestly, I am British (insert stereotype) and will admit I struggle to tell, this is a an internet forum after all. Tone and context are secondary, might want to throw in some smiley's in future to help people out.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, it is the internet, and most of my humour lies in the delivery. It was meant to be humourous because last year Hamilton was attracting all the penalties and if the Brawns were thrown out, he'd still be attracting penalites but he'd be coming out better because of it.Sometimes yours is too dry to be construed as humour.
Honestly, I am British (insert stereotype) and will admit I struggle to tell, this is a an internet forum after all. Tone and context are secondary, might want to throw in some smiley's in future to help people out.
And I don't know any British stereotypes that might apply here ... except maybe that you don't pronounce hard 'r's.
(just getting an idea of this smiley thing ...)
- 23,800
- Philippines
Sorry. Kind of hard to tell, being you're the biggest Hamilton critic on the board.
It's like an ironic, sarcastic quip about Obama from an ultra-right wing Republican... or a Bush jab from a non-republican... there's no way of telling if they're being serious or not...
That's mostly because, scared to death of getting another senseless penalty, Lewis pulled over like a boy scout and let Trulli through. A performance like this makes me hopeful that we won't see any more "rookie mistakes" from LH this season... but I won't rule it out.
Brazil 08 wasn't cool?
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Well, we'll know when we're halfway through the season... as shown, KERS can both inhibit and assist overtaking... strange how Glock complains that the KERS-equipped Renault was unpassable, while Alonso was expressing disappointment in the system... psychological warfare from Alonso to encourage other teams to delay implementation? ("it's mine! My precioooouuuuuus...")
