Australians: Are you sick of hearing about the "Bali 9"

[Cap'n Jack]

I think the only sort of protesting happening here is in the form of hashtags.

 

[Grayfox]

Or boycotts.

After they die, it will all blow over.

Just as the situation with Ms Corby.

 

[R.S]

As far as I know it was more of a rally of family and their supporters in a park somewhere with music and everything, not like a protest in the streets.
There might of however been something displayed by human rights advocates.

 

[FoRiZon]

Its almost the day.

One thing for sure. I blame both countries for this. Australia for (subtly but can be intepreted worse) making economic sanctions, and Indonesia for the "Special Snowflake" attitude. The latter overreaction is hillarious i refrain to discuss.

 

[jimipitbull]

Its almost the day.

One thing for sure. I blame both countries for this. Australia for (subtly but can be intepreted worse) making economic sanctions, and Indonesia for the "Special Snowflake" attitude. The latter overreaction is hillarious i refrain to discuss.

If drugs were legal, Indonesia could have charged them with import/export taxes. Instead, all this has cost Indonesia thousands of rupiahs in legal costs, prison costs and bad publicity.

Myuran's paintings will be worth a lot more when he is dead. If one was available, I'd buy it tomorrow.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So, it's looking like Chan and Sukumaran will be executed soon - possibly as early as some time tonight.

I have to wonder: am I the only person who remembers that they are convicted drug smugglers? Okay, the punishment might not fit the crime, but they're hardly innocent. Most of the campaign to save them has largely degenerated into wheeling out the tearful family members - they were positioned front and centre on "Q&A" last night - and repeated assertions that Chan and Sukumaran are rehabilitated. Call me a cynic, but it's easy to do and say whatever it takes to save yourself when faced with a death sentence.

While I can understand the family's position, some of the public sector statements have been disturbing to say the least. Pleas for clemency have become demands for clemency, and the language has changed to "bring our boys home". Excuse me, but that's the kind of language we use when repatriating victims of disasters like MH17, not a pair of convicted criminals who conspired to exploit the worst of human suffering for monetary gain.

And apparently our government feels that it is appropriate to interfere in Indonesia's political scene, threatening consequences if Indonesia execute them; in doing so, they ignore Indonesia's position as a constitutional democracy and a sovereign state.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If drugs were legal, Indonesia could have charged them with import/export taxes. Instead, all this has cost Indonesia thousands of rupiahs in legal costs, prison costs and bad publicity.

Yes, but they aren't and they're taking the punishment for the crime. As much as I disagree with the death penalty it's difficult to be sympathetic towards people who knowingly commit a capital crime.

And apparently our government feels that it is appropriate to interfere in Indonesia's political scene, threatening consequences if Indonesia execute them; in doing so, they ignore Indonesia's position as a constitutional democracy and a sovereign state.

That'll be parts of the US off the Christmas list too, then?

 

[Com Fox]

This whole debate is completely idiotic, I can't believe people I know are in Support of these smugglers . They broke the law in another country, they have to pay their price no matter if a death sentence was the right punishment or not.

 

[mustafur]

So, it's looking like Chan and Sukumaran will be executed soon - possibly as early as some time tonight.

I have to wonder: am I the only person who remembers that they are convicted drug smugglers? Okay, the punishment might not fit the crime, but they're hardly innocent. Most of the campaign to save them has largely degenerated into wheeling out the tearful family members - they were positioned front and centre on "Q&A" last night - and repeated assertions that Chan and Sukumaran are rehabilitated. Call me a cynic, but it's easy to do and say whatever it takes to save yourself when faced with a death sentence.

While I can understand the family's position, some of the public sector statements have been disturbing to say the least. Pleas for clemency have become demands for clemency, and the language has changed to "bring our boys home". Excuse me, but that's the kind of language we use when repatriating victims of disasters like MH17, not a pair of convicted criminals who conspired to exploit the worst of human suffering for monetary gain.

And apparently our government feels that it is appropriate to interfere in Indonesia's political scene, threatening consequences if Indonesia execute them; in doing so, they ignore Indonesia's position as a constitutional democracy and a sovereign state.

The problem lies in the fact our Government dobbed them into the Indonesian authorities when they could of got them when they arrived in Australia.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That'll be parts of the US off the Christmas list too, then?

It's one thing to lobby for the release of your citizens. It's another thing entirely to effectively hold another country's sovereignty hostage for their sake (even without considering that they have been convicted of serious crimes). Especially when, in opposition, this government was extremely critical of letting Indonesia influence our domestic policy on any level, even when dealing with them co-operatively. We applaud Indonesia for having made the transition to democracy, but then trample on it the moment it suits us. For better or for worse, the message that we have sent is "the rights of our criminals are more important than your democracy".

When Chan and Sukumaran committed their crime, they were fully aware of the consequences. The Schapelle Corby case brought the risks of the crime to national attention. They knew the risks, and got caught.

 

[FoRiZon]

It's one thing to lobby for the release of your citizens. It's another thing entirely to effectively hold another country's sovereignty hostage for their sake (even without considering that they have been convicted of serious crimes). Especially when, in opposition, this government was extremely critical of letting Indonesia influence our domestic policy on any level, even when dealing with them co-operatively. We applaud Indonesia for having made the transition to democracy, but then trample on it the moment it suits us. For better or for worse, the message that we have sent is "the rights of our criminals are more important than your democracy".

When Chan and Sukumaran committed their crime, they were fully aware of the consequences. The Schapelle Corby case brought the risks of the crime to national attention. They knew the risks, and got caught.

Im glad you said that.

I tought Indonesia will be on limbo with seemingly threathening embassies. But i also thought that most of Australians and couple others wont care regardless since theyre actually did a bad thing, unlike those people in Egypt due to purely political reasons. Me myself oppose towards death penalty but alas, law is law.

Regardless, the execution isnt just for the nine, but also some others from Philippines, France, etc.

 

[FoRiZon]

I watched the execution live now lol on the television.

Actually, its just an outside building shot with spectacles. Obviously the execution didnt shown.

Again, i kind of didnt like its overreaction. Once one of the news TV had to explain why they deserved to be executed an hour before for an hour which i dont think that neccesary at all.

 

[Grayfox]

I am glad.
They knew the risks.
No one put a gun to their head.
They knew what they were doing was wrong.
If they went to the Balinese police and explained that they are being forced to smuggle heroine they may not have been killed but given life in jail or even a lesser sentence.

 

[FoRiZon]

Here is the most confusing. People are now confuse between the two sides. It feels like were on 50:50 now.

And theyre also mostly offensive. One side told us to go 🤬 yourself, condemning us to hell and go bankrupt and rot, were valuing death, vow never go to Bali ever again, Calling us a bunch of retarded a:censored:, to were should focus more less on abusing women (hillarious, because apparently anything that Islam majority has the exact same law as Saudi arabia) .

One side didnt go better enough. Some say the nine and couple others deserved to be killed for carrying (not a mastermind) drugs and drugs are bad for children (even though some carrying a little weight, but as far as i know majority of convicted didnt even get to the execution fate). Some are also say petty things that made me facepalm (guess which). Not to mention the insults that most exactly like the other side. There are also some of controversies regarding the same smuggler from Taiwan who smug almost twice the drug than those two Nines, but passed for some reason.

Again, as far as i oppose death penalty, economic and diplomatic sanctions is just an abuse of power really. Glad i can see your voices here

 

[croozer_63]

good riddance, there's a couple more people's kids these maggots don't get to destroy. Hopefully there's a few more dopes to get caught too.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's the Bali 8 now, I think...

 

[FoRiZon]

It's the Bali 8 now, I think...

Bali 7

Anyway, my concern now is on the economic and probably relation side. Will be affected? Does any other countries suffers from the same condition?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Bali 7

Ah, I thought eight had been executed with one released to the Philippines to give evidence in a separate trial.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ah, I thought eight had been executed with one released to the Philippines to give evidence in a separate trial.

No, that was a separate case. Chan and Sukumaran were the ringleaders of the Bali Nine; the other seven were the drug mules, which is probably why they received life sentences instead of death.

 

[Com Fox]

The fact that there was a moment of silence for them reallh makes Australia look foolish for supporting 2 drug smugglers who have killed people.

 

[LeMansAid]

Before the executions I thought "Crazy laws...... even crazier to tempt fate with them." Now, the less pragmatic and considered, human side, has kicked in. I feel really quite saddened by it.

I believe that they would have been good and changed people on the outside, having had the massive perspective upheaval. The quandary being that without the threat of death, there probably would not have been that perspective change - and with a release as a precedent, the next person in the same situation may not feel the same threat of death, and by extension not have the same catalyst for change.

It got me thinking about the concept of every prison sentence also being a death sentence. If a person's societal standards are measurable, have them monitored. Regardless of their crime, if they meet the standard, release them. If they are moving in a positive direction, leave them under threat of death. If they are moving in a negative direction, leave them under threat of death. If they have completed their shift to a negative end, deliver on the threat of death.

.......... Oh, there it is. The pragmatic inhuman me is back.

 

[Com Fox]

Before the executions I thought "Crazy laws...... even crazier to tempt fate with them." Now, the less pragmatic and considered, human side, has kicked in. I feel really quite saddened by it.

I believe that they would have been good and changed people on the outside, having had the massive perspective upheaval. The quandary being that without the threat of death, there probably would not have been that perspective change - and with a release as a precedent, the next person in the same situation may not feel the same threat of death, and by extension not have the same catalyst for change.

It got me thinking about the concept of every prison sentence also being a death sentence. If a person's societal standards are measurable, have them monitored. Regardless of their crime, if they meet the standard, release them. If they are moving in a positive direction, leave them under threat of death. If they are moving in a negative direction, leave them under threat of death. If they have completed their shift to a negative end, deliver on the threat of death.

.......... Oh, there it is. The pragmatic inhuman me is back.

Usually criminals like these, stay as criminals like them. I highly doubt that they'd turn into good people. Smuggling Drugs was practically their career and how they earned money.

I don't think that would work if a good liar/manipulator got sent into prison woth the rule...

 

[LeMansAid]

.....how they earned money.

Exactly.

I own shares in various companies, including some mining stocks. With the degree of separation it brings I'm a little scared at what I might let through, and turn a blind eye to in order to make more money from those shares. These guys were making money from drugs, the misery side is the consumer's responsibility. If one of "my" mining companies polluted a river, ultimately far more directly killing people from a little town in Where-eversville, I think I should be held more to account than our "evil" recently executed.

I don't think that would work if a good liar/manipulator got sent into prison woth the rule...

They're already judging these things, and can probably do it far better. The early releases of both the living kind and dead kind would save a lot of money that could be put in to better and better monitoring and assessment of inmates.

 

[Grayfox]

Before the executions I thought "Crazy laws...... even crazier to tempt fate with them." Now, the less pragmatic and considered, human side, has kicked in. I feel really quite saddened by it.

I believe that they would have been good and changed people on the outside, having had the massive perspective upheaval. The quandary being that without the threat of death, there probably would not have been that perspective change - and with a release as a precedent, the next person in the same situation may not feel the same threat of death, and by extension not have the same catalyst for change.

It got me thinking about the concept of every prison sentence also being a death sentence. If a person's societal standards are measurable, have them monitored. Regardless of their crime, if they meet the standard, release them. If they are moving in a positive direction, leave them under threat of death. If they are moving in a negative direction, leave them under threat of death. If they have completed their shift to a negative end, deliver on the threat of death..

Death has that way on people, it reshuffles the deck.

Most people sent on deathrow rethink their lives and try to do anything to prevent their death.
Saying I will go from drug smuggler to campaigner of anti drugs is what they were trying to do.

 

[Com Fox]

Exactly.

I own shares in various companies, including some mining stocks. With the degree of separation it brings I'm a little scared at what I might let through, and turn a blind eye to in order to make more money from those shares. These guys were making money from drugs, the misery side is the consumer's responsibility. If one of "my" mining companies polluted a river, ultimately far more directly killing people from a little town in Where-eversville, I think I should be held more to account than our "evil" recently executed.




They're already judging these things, and can probably do it far better. The early releases of both the living kind and dead kind would save a lot of money that could be put in to better and better monitoring and assessment of inmates.

but this isn't 2 dudes making others get killed by "mistakes", they knew what they were doing and what could go wrong, yet did it anyway knowing what would happen.

 

[FoRiZon]

https://translate.google.com/transl...sekusi?ndt992204lblartikel&edit-text=&act=url

Gives you an idea from the Indonesian side.

 

[LeMansAid]

but this isn't 2 dudes making others get killed by "mistakes", they knew what they were doing and what could go wrong, yet did it anyway knowing what would happen.

Your words are a bit confusing. Are you attributing the deaths of others to them, the deaths of themselves to them, or both? Clearly within the legal framework they are responsible for their own deaths, but in my opinion, not at all for the deaths of others, and certainly no more than I would be for the deaths of people in Where-eversville.

 

[Com Fox]

Your words are a bit confusing. Are you attributing the deaths of others to them, the deaths of themselves to them, or both? Clearly within the legal framework they are responsible for their own deaths, but in my opinion, not at all for the deaths of others, and certainly no more than I would be for the deaths of people in Where-eversville.

Both mainly .

Imagine if Hitler actually got captured by the Russians and was forced to be in deathrow. Would you feel sorry for a man who is the head behind the millions of deaths when he gets executed?

Death Penalties may not be the best way for punishment but I always believe that you should always obey other countries laws when you're in their territory.

 

[LeMansAid]

Both mainly .

Imagine if Hitler actually got captured by the Russians and was forced to be in deathrow. Would you feel sorry for a man who is the head behind the millions of deaths when he gets executed?

Running with your logic - if they were caught in Australia you'd have them charged with murder, attempted murder, or manslaughter then?

 

[Com Fox]

Running with your logic - if they were caught in Australia you'd have them charged with murder, attempted murder, or manslaughter then?

As well as smuggling drugs yes. I'm only mentioning the murders more frequently because people seem to forget about that...