I can't stand the Japanese setups. They're "cool" and whatnot, but they just don't have quality and the right rates to satisfy me. Many guys that race in the Honda Challenge end up going with Gound Control coilover sleeves with Eibach springs. It's easy to order custom rates and swap them out. They usually pair those with some sort of European dampers, from Ohlins, Bilstein, and especially Koni, among others.I suppose it does make more sense to figure out what grip level you're buying suspension for before buying the suspension bits.
Yeah, spring rates on Japanese set-ups are insane... we spent a a day tuning a Mazda on Teins and even on the softest settings it felt like riding a buckboard on rollerskates.
I prefer my tuning done with swaybars, too, but local availability is poor.
Cody:
As long as you aren't posessing a restricted license (learners, etc), you'll be just fine.
JCE:
I wouldn't bother with an FBody, Fox, C-Class, 3KGT, TT, A4, or Maxima.
I would recommend the SLK (especially the 320, with a manual), MR2, 3 Series (E30 or E36) or the RX-7. Miata, of course, as well.
And good to know on that license stuff. Hopefully you'll be seeing me over there this summer.
Niky and Keef are both right. I would not make the jump to R-compound rubber on stock suspension... but I'd go to maximum performance street tires before I'd do anything involving wrenches. So it's a 3-step program, really.
In Japan tuners rarely use sway bars at all. Just about all coilovers made in Japan for our Hondas have ludicrous spring rates available, than make the car ride like a rock and eliminate the need for sway bars.
Don't have the quality?I can't stand the Japanese setups. They're "cool" and whatnot, but they just don't have quality and the right rates to satisfy me.
It's the best "bang for the buck", that's why.Many guys that race in the Honda Challenge end up going with Gound Control coilover sleeves with Eibach springs.
Which also requires sending off the dampers to get revalved.It's easy to order custom rates and swap them out.
I've only seen Ground Controls used with Koni dampers. Have any examples of Bilstein, or even better, Ohlins paired with GC?They usually pair those with some sort of European dampers, from Ohlins, Bilstein, and especially Koni, among others.
Only when compared to a cheap entry level coilover like mine, and retail on that was still $1,180. A nice coilover setup for a Civic is easily $2,000+. Take Zeal for example.But it's more expensive that way.
Whiteline is Australian.Japanese tuners not using sway bars/anti roll bars???? what japanese tuners are these then.
Do you mean "RICER" tuners?
Coilovers make the car handle nicely, but without stifening the bottom of the car with anti roll bars they dont realy have the desired affect. PLUS. the price of a set of anti roll bars like these from driftworks http://www.driftworks.com/catalog/products/whiteline-front-anti-roll-bar.html. is nothing.
No point in paying out £1k for a set of coilovers if the the standerd sway bars on your car will bend in a light wind.
I'd discount the TT. I think it'd be understeer-y, whether you get an AWD or not.
The Z3 is heavier and less powerful than the SLK. There's an SLK320 that often runs in my club, and it is often competitive with the top 1/4 of the grid - As fast as the Miatas.
Whiteline is Australian.
Doesn't say much for Japanese tuners does it?
Fail.
Sport Compact Car article from July 2007 called "Endless... Traffic" about a 350Z from a street-legal race series.You know this how?
That car was designed by a manufacturer, not an aftermarket tuner. They've got different ways of doing things.Have you ever considered that you are thinking about "upgrading" your car to a CTR sway bar, which is 9mm thicker than your stock unit, and that's still stock in Japan?
I'm referring to damper tuning, which I got from this article, basically saying that the European damper companies are the only ones who make a quality product with "correct" damping curves, which I'll suggest would be similar to stock manufacturer's tuning, just harder.Don't have the quality?
That's a big draw to the Konis specifically, the fact that they can easily be revalved with truly custom settings. Out of the box they're already some of the highest quality dampers on the market. And yes, Ground Control offers sleeves to fit Ohlins, Bilstein, Penske, and a few other brands.Which also requires sending off the dampers to get revalved.
I've only seen Ground Controls used with Koni dampers. Have any examples of Bilstein, or even better, Ohlins paired with GC?
Apparently you'd be paying too much for a part designed to work on a smooth-as-glass Japanese mountain road or race track. We don't have that here in the states....$2,000+. Take Zeal for example.
Provided the road is smooth enough, it makes far more sense to simply run a stiffer suspension instead of thicker sway bars. You get a lot more feedback, response, and control from a stiffer suspension than a soft one. That doesn't mean they "don't" tune with sway bars to control the roll of the car, they've just used a more effective way.Sport Compact Car article from July 2007 called "Endless... Traffic" about a 350Z from a street-legal race series.
EDIT: I'll concede that it's typical to use stock sway bars, but not upgrade them. Here's the important text:
That doesn't tell me much at all.KeefThat car was designed by a manufacturer, not an aftermarket tuner. They've got different ways of doing things.
I'd like to actually see some of the shock dynos on these "crappy" dampers he talks about. Or at least a list of the ones he's tested.KeefI'm referring to damper tuning, which I got from this article, basically saying that the European damper companies are the only ones who make a quality product with "correct" damping curves, which I'll suggest would be similar to stock manufacturer's tuning, just harder.
They might offer the sleeves to fit them, but I don't recall seeing anyone actually use them, especially not on Hondas.KeefThat's a big draw to the Konis specifically, the fact that they can easily be revalved with truly custom settings. Out of the box they're already some of the highest quality dampers on the market. And yes, Ground Control offers sleeves to fit Ohlins, Bilstein, Penske, and a few other brands.
That's only true if the road is so bumpy that the car can't effectively keep all 4 tires on the gound.KeefApparently you'd be paying too much for a part designed to work on a smooth-as-glass Japanese mountain road or race track. We don't have that here in the states.
Whiteline is Australian.
Doesn't say much for Japanese tuners does it?
Fail.
Well, why didn't do that in the first place?Thats is just One example. If you want I could post a hundred Japanese made sway bars.
Well, why didn't do that in the first place?
Can you adjust the diff to be more rear dominant? Or could you somehow reprogram the ecu? The quattro in the TT is 60% front 40% rear isn't it? I love the look of the TT and having AWD is definately better than FWD. But its not cheap and I'm just not a fan of the 1.8T engine.
You don't have any images or video of this SLK do you? And or do you know if he/she removed the top/interior? The Z3 is by far the cheapest--and you can easily upgrade the engine to produce decent enough power for a track. My concern is of the three which would be the cheapest to squeeze out 50-100bhp out of the stock engine while not over-extending the engine/transmission/diff. Or are these already pretty tuned close to what the stock block+internals can handle? I'm pretty sold on the SLK as its my #1 choice right now--and the fact that it is less than 3,000lbs WITH the heavy top and interior trim imagine how light it would be once I remove that stuff then cage it (with frame strengthening+rollbar of course). My problem with it is the initial cost and the VERY limited availability of the V6 with a manual. Nearly impossible actually. I would consider the 230 Kompressor if it had the ability to be upgraded to 250bhp+ without costing me a large amount of $$$. I would like the supercharger whine since its a screw type--but how would the exhaust sound on a Merc I4? Never heard one--especially since the supercharger covers up the exhaust noise.
Most likely, Americans are restricted because some models of various companies did not reach the States.Just out of interest, are you restricted on your car choices. Does it have to be European car? As the price of some of those car. you could pick up a decent EVO VI and have change for Tyres wheels and what ever else you need.
Most likely, Americans are restricted because some models of various companies did not reach the States.
We( United States) did get the Evolution no later than Evo7, I believe. Car models, I ment. I don't know about engine changes alot being compared to their counterparts.